Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[bennocelt]

Personally I wouldn't feel right wearing one, but being told you shouldn't wear one is just as bad as being told you should. I think of all people Keane and O'Neill are thoughtful and intelligent enough to make their own call on it. If they don't have strong views either way and chose to respect the nation's values, that's their choice. Whether they'd wear them or not in Dublin is completely irrelevant.

That's a fair assessment, but I disagree that one would take them off in Dublin is irrelevant,, they know damn well the reaction they might get

[DeLorean]

Perhaps Roy and Martin were using heir heads in wearing them and not attracting negative attention. But for me that makes it all the worse.
It's a sad state of affairs when people are wearing such a strong symbol for fear of what will happen if they don't.
Reminds me of something that was happening in central Europe around the 1930's....

Yeah but that would be second guessing their motives as you don't know their views on the matter. Keane missed a World Cup because he felt strongly about the poor preparation, I'm sure if he felt strongly about this he would have surely sacrificed a half hour of punditry. He's more than entitled to see this in a different way to you and I, it doesn't automatically mean he's gone against his own beliefs for an easy life.

[paul_oshea]

No it's not. It's a symbol and symbols mean different things to different people.

So the black on white symbol means something different to other people? Maybe if you lived in Mars, or havent stepped foot outside your enclave. That's a cop out, especially in the case of the poppy and what it symbolises (in the UK)to someone who preceded to say they (ive lived in the UK....etc).

[peadar1987]

Not sure where you're getting that info. Marcievicz was a Protestant. Casement was a Protesant....Erskine Childers. Bulmer Hobson.
Connolly and Lemass were arguably atheist. Indeed the 1916 proclamation guaranteed 'religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens'.

But De Valera (*spit*) and his followers were very much in favour of catholic domination of Irish life and politics, regardless of what the proclamation said. The only universal factor the rebels had in common was a desire for an independent Ireland.

[geysir]

Too late now, the mistakes that have been made cannot be undone, can't edit the title either.

Then it will remain as a permanent stain to your reputation and well deserved I might add

[DannyInvincible]

Delaney is much despised in some quarters but he has swallowed a lot of pride in the Keane appointment and to continue to keep Denis O'Brien involved is good work.

Got a chance to watch and listen to his full Newstalk interview with Pat Kenny this morning and was impressed by Delaney. I don't have as strong a disdain for him as I once did. He's always spoken well on the contentious eligibility issue - certainly one way to win over my respect! - and he conducts himself well in interviews. I think it's the dishevelled demeanour that works against him (amongst other things); he just has that look of a cute hoor about him, ready to pull a fast one on you and feed you a load of bull for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

So the black on white symbol means something different to other people? Maybe if you lived in Mars, or havent stepped foot outside your enclave. That's a cop out, especially in the case of the poppy and what it symbolises (in the UK)to someone who preceded to say they (ive lived in the UK....etc).

Of course it can mean different things to different people. Just like, say, the Union flag, or even the Irish flag, symbolises different things to different people. You don't dispute that, surely? Even the swastika, one of the most unambiguously loathed and stigmatised symbols in Western civilisation, possesses various connotations dependent on one's perspectives and circumstances. It's widely viewed as a symbol of good luck in southern Asia, for example.

without the British we would be speaking German!

God bless them; noble protectors of our native, erm, Hiberno-English tongue...

Wear the Poppy, thats fine, but fecking three weeks before, thats a bit much

"A poppy is for life; not just for (near) Christmas."

[ArdeeBhoy]

The Brits haven't fought in any war/conflict worthy of the name since 1945 anyway...

Once the last veterans from then die off, it should be consigned to history probably for good?

[tricky_colour]

Then it will remain as a permanent stain to your reputation and well deserved I might add

Dunno if it will be visible on top of the other stains

[tricky_colour]

The Brits haven't fought in any war/conflict worthy of the name since 1945 anyway...

Once the last veterans from then die off, it should be consigned to history probably for good?

There is absolutely no need for it?

What is is for anyway, if it is to raise money for charity to those involved then
it proves they were not fighting for anything worth fighting for where people
in need including old soldier have to resort to begging on the streets (and sometimes
inside pubs) sometimes just leaving their tin there, too ashamed to be seem begging.

[SkStu]

I bought a poppy and tried to turn it into heroin. Mad buzz.

[tricky_colour]

Bennocelt, can you please quit sending reputation comments to my private message inbox?

I agrees, I have one downgrading my otherwise unblemished reputation.
I am not too bothered about that but it just says "bah" and I don't know what it refers to.
Hence in a tit to tat attack I downgraded his too!!!
He can give it out, but can he take it???

[bennocelt]

I agrees, I have one downgrading my otherwise unblemished reputation.
I am not too bothered about that but it just says "bah" and I don't know what it refers to.
Hence in a tit to tat attack I downgraded his too!!!
He can give it out, but can he take it???

Of course I can, give and take no big deal

[DannyInvincible]

There is absolutely no need for it?

What is is for anyway, if it is to raise money for charity to those involved then
it proves they were not fighting for anything worth fighting for where people
in need including old soldier have to resort to begging on the streets (and sometimes
inside pubs) sometimes just leaving their tin there, too ashamed to be seem begging.

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori...

The poppy obviously means different things to different people. For some, it might represent the memory of a lost loved one. For others, a jingoistic celebration of (what once was) British global might. For others again, a symbol of the foreign oppressor. And so forth...

The Royal British Legion, who run Poppyfest annually, declare their purpose as being to "provide help and welfare to the serving and ex-Service community and their families". Of course, soldiers are cannon-fodder. When were they ever fighting for an agenda of their own? Whilst there may be a charitable element (and who, other than a downright misanthropic sociopath, could argue with the concept of charity, after all?!), the poppy possesses a double meaning; it is also a useful propaganda tool for those of the establishment who send lower-class men out to do their dirty work. To question the exhibition of the poppy and the wars in which these soldiers are sent off to fight can then become disingenuously twisted or framed as an attack on "our boys". To cast a critical eye over these poor sods out "fighting for our freedom" is simply below-the-belt; unthinkable as far as the terms of the public debate on the matter are concerned. The poppy provides a rosy buffer or smokescreen for those elites who stand to benefit from global warmongering.

This semi-related documentary - it's a critique of US warmongering and propaganda - by Eugene Jarecki on the rise and maintenance of the American military-industrial complex, Why We Fight, is worth a watch for anyone interested in such things:

[DannyInvincible]

Anyway, back on-topic; Ray Houghton expresses his thoughts on his two-hour long meeting with Roy: http://thescore.thejournal.ie/ray-ho...62209-Nov2013/

ROY KEANE THINKS there’s ‘plenty of players’ in the Irish squad who are better than he was, according to Ray Houghton.

The former Liverpool and Aston Villa midfielder was tasked with interviewing prospective new managers, along with FAI performance director, Ruud Dokter.

Houghton says he met with Keane for two hours when Martin O’Neill suggested he wanted the Corkman as his assistant.

“In that chat I had with him I found him very humble when he was talking about his abilities,” Houghton said on RTE’s Primetime programme tonight.

“I actually put that question to him about handling players and as I was about to go into a monologue about what I think he should do differently he stopped me in my tracks and said you know what, the type of players I was I was a good runner; there’s plenty of players in the Irish set-up better than me. I think he’s learned from his mistakes and I think he’s going to be very good for the Irish set-up.”

Houghton said he had never had a long conversation with his former international team-mate about football before and was surprised by Keane’s depth of knowledge.
“As far as Roy’s concerned, that was purely down to Martin O’Neill. He wasn’t forced onto Martin at all. It was Martin’s decision to ask for him as his assistant and time will tell if it’s the right choice. I personally think it is.

“I spoke to Roy and had a good chat with him for over two hours and he impressed me hugely. I thought what he had to say was excellent, he surprised me and it takes a lot to surprise me in football, I can assure you. He said the right things and I really think he’s earned a great deal from his time at Ipswich and I think he’s going to do really well for the country.

“I must admit I’ve never really sat down with Roy for a great length of time and spoke about football,” he continued. “I obviously knew he was a fantastic footballer who works in the TV industry like a lot of us. But I didn’t realise his depth of knowledge was quite what it was and his depth of knowledge of the Irish set-up.

“I spoke to him for two hours and it could have been another two hours at least such was his enthusiasm and his knowledge and from that point of view I was surprised at the detail that he went into. But I was pleasantly surprised and I think he and Martin will form a very good understanding. There’s no question, having spoken to both of them, they know their roles. Martin is the manager and Roy is there to assist him and we’ll see what develops over the coming months.”

When asked if Keane’s standards were too high for the Championship-level players he led at Ipswich Town, Houghton said: ” All Roy wants is the best for his players. He wants them to go out in training, in matches and produce their best football.

“He’s not asking for anything more from them. He’s not asking for anything they’re not incapable of doing. It’s just having a bit of pride in your country, a bit of pride in playing for a team, going out there and playing to the best of your ability. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. That’s his standards that he wants and it’s up to the players to match those standards. Not just his, Martin O’Neill’s exactly the same.”

I understand the RTÉ panel discussed the new appointments after last night's Champions League game. Don't suppose there's a video of the coverage about?

[gastric]

Can we imagine if O'Neill or Keane refused to wear poppies? Controversy, paddy bashing and side issues becoming headlines. At times, we have to swallow our pride and do what the Romans do. I completely agree with Stutts. When you have a family who are of dual nationality and a country has been good to you, what is wrong with accepting a country's values?

For younger posters on here, it is easy to be idealistic when young, another when you are a bit older and life is a bit more complexed.