Eligibility Rules, Okay

[SwanVsDalton]

While the FAI's approach may not be deliberately sectarian (although, regardless of intention, the reality is that it is, and particularly provocative a matter of weeks ahead of a meeting between the two teams) or deliberately designed to destroy the NI team, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see that if this is not at least the subtext to their efforts, it also has an impact in NI beyond football as it further divides a society still riven by sectarianism.

We will, however, survive, but whether we can survive as we have always existed as a cross-community team which is entirely representative of the people of Northern Ireland remains to be seen.

Out of all the misinformation, nonsense and downright pig-headed ignorance peddled around this issue, the idea of the FAI destroying the all-inclusive Norn Iron dream with their evil sectarian selection policy is by a country mile the most infuriating. It's also the kind of attitude which is far more damaging to an all-inclusive NI team than anything the FAI could do.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Fair point, but it's all down to the 'P' word.
And I am of course, not making any wider cultural reference.

[Closed Account]

All call-ups for all levels must include a note that accepting the call-up means that they are explicitly committing themselves to France. Anyone not willing to make this public and signed commitment should not be picked until they are prepared to do so. If someone wants to bide their time, that is their perogative, but it should also be made clear that any acceptance of a call-up from any other international association from- and this is crucial- a France born player will, regardless of FIFA rules, mean that they will not be selected for France at any level again.

Somehow I don't think it'd go down to well.

[DannyInvincible]

In response to the revelation that Shane Ferguson has indeed been in contact with an FAI representative, a poster on a certain forum reckons that they [the IFA, fans etc.] need a new approach. I know that these guys feel strongly about the issue, but some of the things they come out with are utterly risible.

Self-awareness sorely lacking, clearly. I mean, surely the bright spark who devised this detailed and cunning ploy realises that it almost reads like an elaborate kidnap plot.

Generally, I don't really take much issue with the first three paragraphs as the IFA can be as internally hypocritical as they wish for all I care. Bar these bits:

It needs to be stressed again and again that these people DID choose to play for Northern Ireland at any number of levels, no-one forced them, they showed up of their own freewill and did so knowing what anthem was going to be played and what flag flown.

They're also free to choose to play Ireland. No-one's forcing, kidnapping or poaching them. Certainly not the FAI. If anyone has tried to force anything, it was the IFA in trying to limit the choice of these individuals by dragging Daniel Kearns off to CAS. There are a number of reasons as to why a nationalist player might end up playing under the Ulster Banner. It doesn't necessarily have to be seen as contradictory nor does it strike a blow to the notion that they still identify as Irish and would rather play with Ireland first and foremost. For example, I recall Shane Duffy's father stating on the UTV news around the time of Duffy's switch something to the effect that, being from Derry, naturally, Duffy had grown up within the northern footballing system where things snow-balled as figures in authority began to fast-track him through the ranks from an early age, guilting him over potentially letting his team-mates down any time he expressed his desire to play for Ireland. His dream was always still to play for Ireland, even when he was standing awkwardly with head down to 'God Save the Queen' before NI games, would you believe? Obviously, for some others, self-interest will precede national allegiance, but that's their own business.

In addition, the IFA has to take some action. I sometimes get the impression that there are those in the IFA who view the NI team as an inconvenience and are simply waiting for the day that we are forced into an all-island team.

Everyone's up against them. Even themselves.

That loyalty scheme is a nice idea, mind. It's a business model that works for Tesco and Sainsbury's, isn't it? In seriousness though, it's debatable as to whether such would do them a huge deal of good. Might worsen things, if anything, as it all comes across as a bit stringent and draconian. Anyhow, if they do manage to successfully convince young nationalists that playing for NI is in their best interests, then I'm not going to object to a lad's decision, whatever his reasons may happen to be.

Paragraph four is where things really lapse into farce though.

We also, unfortunately, need a public statement from the FAI that they will not select anyone who has played for NI at u19, u21 or full international level, regardless of their technical eligibility for the ROI.

And he demands this in the name of continued cross-border co-operation? This guy has quite a sense of humour. Things had been very co-operative, fine and dandy until the IFA took it upon themselves to breach that concord with their CAS appeal. This post of co. down green's from last year is also enlightening. Out of interest, I wonder what the FAI would get in return for shutting out legitimate and eligible volunteers? Decency points? As co. down green also pointed out recently, nationalist taxpayer's money funds the IFA as well.

Perhaps it should be pointed out to them that if the next Robbie Keane signs apprenticeship forms with an English club and lives there for a couple of years he is eligible for England.

A member of OWC suggesting that the FAI mightn't be up to speed with the eligibility rules? Funny.

Anyhow, the chances of such a scenario occurring would be remote given we'd most likely already have capped such a talent, if even Robbie Keane II would wish to line out for England in the first place. If this hypothetical player did wish to hold out for England, it would be a peculiar case indeed and might elicit disappointment, but he'd be entirely within his rights to do so.

While the FAI's approach may not be deliberately sectarian (although, regardless of intention, the reality is that it is, and particularly provocative a matter of weeks ahead of a meeting between the two teams) or deliberately designed to destroy the NI team, it is becoming increasingly difficult to see that if this is not at least the subtext to their efforts, it also has an impact in NI beyond football as it further divides a society still riven by sectarianism.

Well, it's neither deliberately sectarian nor sectarian in effect in that the FAI are simply accommodating the wish of northern-born players good enough to play for Ireland to realise their ambition. For all the FAI cares, they might as well be Catholic, Protestant or even dissenter. If players from a unionist background wished to embrace the spirit of cross-border co-operation and all that, sure why not they just be done with it and declare for Ireland too? Nothing the FAI is doing is particularly provocative because of timing either. It shouldn't be seen in a provocative light besides, but the FAI have been calling northern-born Irish nationals into our various teams for a decade and a half. Ferguson is just another in a long line of northern-born Irish nationals. And the FAI aren't to blame for social division. If some people happen to be part of a society but are lukewarm to the notion of partaking in that society's cultural escapades, that's not the fault of the FAI. Telling an Irishman he ought to be denied the right to play for his country and have his choice limited to lining out for a team that is essentially a British entity is what's divisive, provocative and vindictive.

[DannyInvincible]

I just had a look through that hysterical thread on OWC and this gem really stood out as a particular highlight:

Wait until Shay Given (Derry born (ok just adding because I need a keeper in my side )), Shane Ferguson (Derry born), Marc Wilson (Aghagallon born), Paul George (Co. Down born), Darron Gibson (Derry born), Daniel Kearns (Belfast born), Adam Barton (Blackburn born ) are all playing against Northern Ireland next month. OK the chances of Kearns playing are slim but the FAI selecting him just to 'rub it in' to the North is quite high!

I'd be hard-pressed to know where to start on that.

[geysir]

That loyalty scheme is a nice idea, mind. It's a business model that works for Tesco and Sainsbury's, isn't it? In seriousness though, it's debatable as to whether such would do them a huge deal of good. Might worsen things, if anything, as it all comes across as a bit stringent and draconian.

I don't know Danny, that loyalty scheme is not such a stretch, is it?

[DannyInvincible]

Trying to get a bit more info on Chinedu Vine, I happened to stumble across this somewhat different video, for want of a better description, on the lad:

It's a fairly amateur production but it features some camcorder footage of him playing and showcasing his various medals and things to an odd mix of epic-cinematic, fervently upbeat and particularly solemn music with dubbed commentary from John Champion, Andy Townsend and Jim Beglin in the background. He also speaks very briefly about experiences of his that have been documented in the local media between the action footage and, of obvious and vital importance, appears aged about eight collecting an award at a kid's soccer school wearing what must have been an Ireland World Cup 2002 supporters T-shirt at 3:21.

[tetsujin1979]

odd one this (also not sure where to post it, so feel free to move/delete)
Northern Ireland's Daniel Devine made his first start for Preston on Saturday against Ipswich. He was most recently included in their U21 squad last February against Wales: http://www.irishfa.com/news/item/626...take-on-wales/
(side note Shane Ferguson was in the same squad)
But he was also included in an U19 Republic of Ireland training squad in 2010: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...r-19&Itemid=12
He didn't make the final squad for the U19 qualifiers in the Ukraine: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...r-19&Itemid=12
and as far as I can tell, hasn't represented the Republic at any level since then
Is there anymore information on this?

[BonnieShels]

Good spot. It looks like he's 'ours'!

[DannyInvincible]

If I remember correctly, Devine played for NI at some level prior to announcing he wanted to declare for us; that being around the same time Daniel Kearns announced he wanted to switch (I think, although I'm open to correction and may have him confused with someone else).

Still, though, don't the IFA realise that repoaching players is twice as bad?!

[DannyInvincible]

I can find that he's played 6 minutes of a competitive European Under-19 Championship qualifying game for NI against Switzerland at least: http://www.uefa.com/under19/teams/pl...166/index.html

That was in October of 2010.

Oddly, this has his place of birth down as Dublin, but surely it can't be right: http://www.worldfootball.net/spieler...daniel-devine/

Then, there appears to be another Daniel Devine of Aston Villa and formerly of Crumlin United who is about half a year younger, which is probably the source of some confusion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_V..._Academy_squad

[ifk101]

Place of birth is Belfast according to wikipedia which would be consisted with the clubs he played youth football with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Devine_%28footballer%29

[tetsujin1979]

It does appear that there are two Daniel Devine's (queue the terrace chants "there's only two Dan Devine's" and "we all dream of a team of Dan Devine's")
Preston's Daniel Devine is from Belfast according to his club profile: http://www.pnefc.net/page/YouthsProf...730302,00.html
Aston Villa's Daniel Devine is from Dublin: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/ReservesP...091238,00.html
He was recently named in the U19 squad to play Croatia in February: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...r-19&Itemid=12
But he didn't appear in either game
Most recent report of him I can find on Villa's site is from the first leg of the FA Youth Cup Semi Final against Sheffield United, he was sent off late on for an off the ball incident: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetai...317643,00.html

If anyone is an Aston Villa tv subscriber, there's an interview with him here: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/TV/Interv...306814,00.html

[SwanVsDalton]

Miles off topic but the Villa Devine is quite highly regarded - thought to be a first-teamer in the making and been a lynch-pin of successful Youth squads.

[Predator]

Still, though, don't the IFA realise that repoaching players is twice as bad?!

Shane Duffy was in one of Sean McCaffrey's training camps 3 or 4 years back. Afterwards, having not received a call up he remained with the IFA for a while before switching - so Devine is not lost yet!

However, on the notion of poaching and repoaching, since the player could not have possibly made his own mind up, it must have been the IFA with their 'dirty tongue in his ear' (honestly, these terms are ridiculous) who persuaded him to go back - morally suspect crowd that they are!