Player eligibility row

[dr_peepee]

As I said, no player should be able to play for two international teams successively. I think they shouldn't have that choice, no more. It's reasonable, constructive and not short-sighted at all.

Maybe I took you up wrong. In our case there's a choice afforded. Are you questioning their eligability to represent both in the first place? Or the fact that they can change at as late a stage as 21? Or the fact that they can change at all?

[ifk101]

I'm not sure if it was you and/or others that posted a comment on youtube in response to that video but they have all been removed today. Are the IFA afraid of debate? I had read them and I didn't read anything that could be seen as breaking youtube rules.

No, I haven't posted any comments. Some comments there now though about censorship.

[Mr_Parker]

No - sole traders only!!

[Mr_Parker]

Well what you asked for was a "link" or "quote". I provided you with a "quote", which, just to be clear, is one of the things you asked for. In fact, I simply reminded you of where you could find the quote that I previously provided, which you had apparently missed. As I said, if you want to argue that Cascarino just made that story up, then go ahead, but it's pretty hard to see why he would have. It's certainly more evidence than you have provided in support of your bizarre assertion that FIFA do not require any evidence of eligibility.

To summarise my view, an account from a former international player counts for far more than the unsubstantiated opinion of an anonymous internet poster, but each to their own.

You obviously haven't dealt with to many football players in your time if you credit them as reliable sources.

As I stated before, you cannot demand proof of something that does not exist nor could anyone provide such. A reading of the FIFA Statutes, Competition Regulations (I gave you the current World Cup as an example) and Match Delegate duties and regulations would show you that there is no such requirement. Added to the fact of the 2006 case when it was proven that passport pertaing to the country being played for was not required, more than demonstrates that you are wrong in your claim.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Eh, sorry, but anyone who wants independence is not a "Unionist". A Unionist supports the Union with Britain. The "Union" part of "Unionist" kind of gives it away.

PS: just to reiterate, there is no such country as the Republic of Ireland, the state is called Ireland. Even the UK has now accepted that, so you really should too. Even if it is hard for an "early 80 year old" to change his ways

Ha ha. Fair playing for highlighting the usual pompous paranoia!
Like it or not, there'll always be a moral claim on the six counties and their sports teams until the British state ends its colonial subsidy.
Be it a thousand, hours, days, weeks, months or years.
My €'s is on the penultimate.

[geysir]

As I said, no player should be able to play for two international teams successively. I think they shouldn't have that choice, no more. It's reasonable, constructive and not short-sighted at all.
........
If they want to play for the South, let them, regardless of who makes the first approach. But only if they haven't played for NI's adult teams first.

According to that, basically you are in agreement with the current eligibility rules but would prefer a player to be tied if he has been capped at adult level (18 and over?) and not just as it stands now - at senior competitive level.
Seeing as FIFA have just removed the age barrier of 21 years to any change, that would be very wishful thinking.
A gentleman's agreement perhaps?
If there was a time for that, it was way back in December 2007 when the IFA should have accepted FIFA´s offer to make a deal and come with their (bowler) hat in hand to meet with the FAI and knuckle out some agreement. They were too busy banging the drum to read the writing on the wall.

As it stands now, it is unfortunate for the OWC that there is such a collection of great minds as the IFA. They do not know if they are coming or going. Considering the IFA do not even understand the glaringly obvious concept of Article 16 which defines eligibility for their own team, it would be advisable to keep any expectations well under wraps.
Dare I say, a stop off at Lourdes might be in order for the IFA delegation on their way to CAS? or perhaps a few doses of EST?

[co. down green]

So the North have decided that they are being treated unfairly because lads growing up in Ireland,who qualify for Ireland, who are born in Ireland, who hold Irish passports and who support Ireland, want to play for Ireland.

Hardly surprising!

The IFA go to FIFA and ask for a ruling over the eligibility of players like Darron Gibson etc.. and are told that the existing situation remains, players born in the North are eligible to play for Ireland. The IFA then go back to FIFA six months later to challenge FIFA’s previous ruling, because Alex Bruce decides to play for Ireland rather than the North. (Co. Down grandmother), and are told that the existing situation remains, players born in the North are eligible to play for Ireland. They then approach FIFA for a third time to ask for further clarification on their previous two rulings. The FAI, out of the goodness of their heart, offer the IFA a compromise, stating that they are prepared to consider the North being allowed to select players from all over the Island, to try and offset any leakage of players due to FIFA rules. The IFA reject this offer and insist that players born in The North should not be allowed to play for Ireland. Sepp Blatter then publicly tells the IFA that the existing situation remains, players born in the North are eligible to play for Ireland.

So….. the situation today remains, Just as it was during the mid 90’s when players like Gerard Crossley & Mark McKeever from Belfast and Derry were representing Ireland.

If Nigel Worthington and the IFA think it’s wrong that teenage kids can decide that they want to play for Ireland at a certain age, rather than the North, why do they not have the same concerns when they approach England underage internationals like Oliver Norwood and Joe Dudgeon. Both these Manchester United academy players played for England u16 & u17’s before being persuaded to come and play for the North.

Indeed, while Leeds born Dudgeon was unavailable for the North’s u21 team last night, Norwood scored twice for the team against San Marino. An u21 team that included in its strike force - Leicester born Billy Kee, Walsall born William Grigg & Northampton born Billy McKay. Burnley Born Norwood and Watford born Michael Bryan in midfield and Watford born Lee hodson in defence.

All those named in The North’s u21 squad qualified in accordance with FIFA regulations, just as Gibson, Wilson, McEleney, Kearns etc.. qualify to play for Ireland .

PS. Are the IFA carrying out a sectarian poaching policy by only approaching Catholic born England internationals like Dudgeon & Norwood to play for them.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye CDG,
Hypocrisy all round! Not to mention myopia (& amnesia!).

[Paddy Garcia]

Norwood scored twice for the team against San Marino. An u21 team that included in its strike force - Leicester born Billy Kee, Walsall born William Grigg & Northampton born Billy McKay. Burnley Born Norwood and Watford born Michael Bryan in midfield and Watford born Lee hodson in defence.

....suggest we offer these lads the opportunity to play for a decent team. No reason they should be confined to the gutter. Lets have Norwood anyway.

Don't be surprised at the hypocrisy - I've been reading Ealing & his mate's posts for too long.

[Gather round]

Eh, sorry, but anyone who wants independence is not a "Unionist". A Unionist supports the Union with Britain. The "Union" part of "Unionist" kind of gives it away

Actually it doesn't. Many unionists have always been more agreed on what they're against- anything to do with the South- than the detail of their relationship with the rest of Britain. The independent Ulster supporters saw themselves as unionists, so pretty much they are. Eccentric though it sounds.

PS: just to reiterate, there is no such country as the Republic of Ireland, the state is called Ireland

Reiterate it all you like. I'm relaxed about what you call the country, I'll continue to call it the South or the Republic. Everyone knows where I mean, and why get hidebound by names? They differ from place to place.

Even the UK has now accepted that, so you really should too

Why? I only call it Ireland when I mean all of it, not just part. You might as well get used to it.

Are you questioning their eligability to represent both in the first place? Or the fact that they can change at as late a stage as 21? Or the fact that they can change at all?

I've made it clear- I think playing international football as an adult should tie a player to one country even if he has dual nationality.

Ha ha. Fair playing for highlighting the usual pompous paranoia!

Come again? I haven't said anything pompous or paranoid (or deluded, unlike you).

Like it or not, there'll always be a moral claim on the six counties and their sports teams until the British state ends its colonial subsidy. Be it a thousand, hours, days, weeks, months or years

If you're that bothered about saving the British government money, why don't you go back to Ardee?

According to that, basically you are in agreement with the current eligibility rules but would prefer a player to be tied if he has been capped at adult level (18 and over?) and not just as it stands now - at senior competitive level. Seeing as FIFA have just removed the age barrier of 21 years to any change, that would be very wishful thinking

Aye, that's right. I don't expect it to be easy...

If Nigel Worthington and the IFA think it’s wrong that teenage kids can decide that they want to play for Ireland at a certain age, rather than the North, why do they not have the same concerns when they approach England underage internationals

A fair question. The logic doesn't seem to be much more than it's OK to recruit players from larger countries, but not smaller.

suggest we offer these lads the opportunity to play for a decent team

Er, they've already had the chance to play for two teams at pretty much the same standard. Look at the results and seedings.

No reason they should be confined to the gutter

They aren't. Save us the self-righteousness.

Lets have Norwood anyway

I don't think you can, he's already played for two countries..

Don't be surprised at the hypocrisy - I've been reading Ealing & his mate's posts for too long

If that's directed at me, back it with some evidence. I've said nothing hypcritical. Nor, unlike you, blamed NI football fans generally for a sectarian murder. Wind your neck in.

[Predator]

Good article in the Belfast Telegraph by Chris Donnelly: Empathy, not enforcement is what's needed in Irish soccer

[ArdeeBhoy]

I haven't said anything pompous or paranoid (or deluded).

You might like to re-read your own past tedious posts on the subject. And then read the dictionary definitions of those words!
It's definitely proof you need to get out more....

[dantheman]

Another debate here at 1:03:10, http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1067770 after the Brazil match.

Bill aska a question about northern players, but the panel rejects Kerr's article (although the answered more about British players, than those from the north).

Well what was Houghton going to say?

[Mr_Parker]

Good article in the Belfast Telegraph by Chris Donnelly: Empathy, not enforcement is what's needed in Irish soccer

I don't know if it is really that good an article since he doesn't seem to understand the FIFA Statutes and there standing in this issue but rather talks about the GFA etc.

[geysir]

True enough, at least he was referring to discussions with others who didn't understand namely Howard Wells and the IFA.
In general he gives an account of perception, i'd leave to you lot to decide if he speaks for many nationalists.

And the North did vote to accept the terms of the GFA which included the Irish citizenship birth right thing. It was not entered into NI Statute law as there was no need, only a change to the irish law was needed. Yet the perception amongst Unionists is that this aspect of Republic citizenship laws are irredentist rather than a mutual democratically accepted principle.

Here he is almost accurate when dealing with the loophole accusation.
'It isn't a loophole that permits Irish-born citizens here to represent the Republic's team. It is an entitlement which FIFA has already affirmed a year ago.'

For 'Irish-born' read Northern Irish born Irish citizens (NIBIC) .