Player eligibility row

[EalingGreen]

Here are some things the IFA should do (for the sake of balance):

-Change their anthem immediately to something neutral (Danny Boy may be a dirge but it was good enough for Barry McGuigan and others). Not just talking hot air about it, DO IT.They could call EGM and do it within a week if they wanted.

As I and many others have frequently pointed out, many NI fans would like to see GSTQ replaced, for a variety of reasons.
However, if you feel that this should be done because it alienates NI Nationalists, are you going to agree to the ROI replacing the Soldier's Song with something "neutral"? For that just as surely alienates NI Unionists.
Unless, of course, the FAI is not actually interested in picking a truly all-Ireland team i.e. Irish Unionists need not apply...

-Openly apologise to the nationalist community for the disgraceful behavior to their supporters, players AND clubs over the years

Oh FFS!

-Change their name from the Irish Football Association, as they only appear to be "irish" in any way, shape or form when they are trying to twist "their" interpretation of eligibility rules

We have proudly been the Irish Football Association for 130 years now, and aren't going to change that at the behest of some feeble-minded poster on a message board.
When are you going to accept that there are two international teams in Ireland, only one of which approaches players to play for them irrespective of the player's religion, identity or background. (And if you're unsure which one this latter is, you might find that eg the emerald green shirts with the Celtic Cross badge and shamrocks a useful clue)

-Stop calling the FAI decision sectarian, when GSTQ & No Surrender blast out from Linfield 15%'s home ground, Windsor Park

FAI scouts are regularly seen at NI under-age games, even outside NI. Every single player who is known to have been approached (eg McKenna, Baird, Gibson, Duffy etc) is from the Nationalist community. Indeed, the only NI player from the Unionist community who has represented ROI in the modern era was Alan Kernaghan - and then only because the IFA's Rules prevented us from picking him for us.
Now I accept that the FAI does not deliberately set out to be sectarian, but the inevitable consequence of their policy must be to lead more closely to a situation whereby one Irish international team is effectively Protestant/Unionist and the other Catholic/Nationalist.

The IFA and the bigotry of its fans are ENTIRELY responsible for this situation. They have been a total and utter disgrace for the last number of decades.

If that is so, and the FAI is so concerned for their Nationalist fellow-countrymen in NI, how come they never eg protested to FIFA etc on their behalf?
How come they declined to pick such players for around five decades (under the Gentlemens' Agreement)?

After the death threats and defections, the English anthem still bellows out around WP.

It is not the "English Anthem", it is the anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and far from "bellowing out" around WP, it lasts approx 90 seconds before the game even starts.
Now I'm not saying it should be played (it shouldn't, imo), but it can be no more objectionable to NI Nationalists than eg the playing of the SS is to NI Unionists when the Ireland rugby team plays at Lansdowne. Get over it.
As for the death threat, to this day no-one knows who did it - it was an anonymous phone call, without a recognised codeword, to a newspaper. I do not blame Lennon for taking it seriously, but the IFA and NI fans are no more to be blamed for that than eg Cork County GAA and their fans for the series of threats issued against the manager of their Hurling team.

If you have access, check out the disgusting attitude of the NI fans on the OWC forum towards the Republic and its supporters regarding this. And try and reconcile this with nationalist fans wanting to share an allegiance to a team (& stadium) where this is the representative view.

The various views which are expressed on OWC are no more "representative" of the NI team and stadium than this forum is of the ROI team etc.

Anyhow, here is what Jim Magilton contributed to "Green & White Army - The NI Fans' Story":

"I will never forget my first cap. It was a game against Poland at Windsor Park in February 1991. All my family were there and I felt so proud.
"Some people had been giving me a bit of stick before the game. They said that being from the heart of West Belfast the crowd would get on to me. Quite the reverse happened. They were very supportive from Day One. In fact I would have to say that the Northern Ireland fans were always good to me. They seemed to appreciate the way I played. They knew I was a football man who wanted to get the ball down and pass it, and they liked that. It may also have helped, mind you, that I scored on my debut, which turned out to be a 3-1 win over the Poles.
"Playing at Windsor that night fulfilled an ambition that I had harboured for some years. The special atmosphere of that football ground is something that has to be sampled firsthand to be appreciated properly. I remember when Michael O'Neill and I were schoolboy internationals we were invited to be ball boys at a Northern Ireland game.
"We were young teenagers at the time, but the first thing that hit me when we were waiting in the dressing room area was the smell. That waft of wintergreen that you only get in football changing rooms. Suddenly the door opened and there they were. The Northern Ireland team. Pat Jennings, Martin O'Neill and all the big names. All my heroes.
"As we came out from the back of the south stand the noise began. Once we hit the pitch it was deafening. Michael and I were told to stand in front of the Kop. It was just a cauldron of noise and two young boys immediately wanted a piece of their action. It was a dream to come back to Windsor as a Northern Ireland player, which I was proud to do and to go on to win 52 caps.
"People talk about the sectarian chants and songs when I was a player. But to be honest, once the game starts you are too focused to notice. I have to say that we find ourselves in a more preferable situation these days. There is a feelgood factor around Windsor. People are going along to the games as a family, and that has to be good news for everyone.
"It is also great to see the ever increasing numbers of Northern Ireland tops being worn around Belfast and beyond. Often when I am travelling over I see fellow travellers bedecked in their Northern Ireland gear. The excitement around the Northern Ireland team these days is great to see. The fans have played a major role in creating that, by changing the complexion of Windsor Park.
"But the IFA deserves plaudits too. They have tried to help the fans achieve their goals in this regard. They have involved them in various committees, they have listened to their idea and worked to make things better for everyone"

[SilkCut]

As I and many others have frequently pointed out, many NI fans would like to see GSTQ replaced, for a variety of reasons.
However, if you feel that this should be done because it alienates NI Nationalists, are you going to agree to the ROI replacing the Soldier's Song with something "neutral"? For that just as surely alienates NI Unionists.
Unless, of course, the FAI is not actually interested in picking a truly all-Ireland team i.e. Irish Unionists need not apply...

Now I'm not saying it should be played (it shouldn't, imo), but it can be no more objectionable to NI Nationalists than eg the playing of the SS is to NI Unionists when the Ireland rugby team plays at Lansdowne. Get over it.
I]

I for one would happily agree to a neutral anthem, in fact I think it would be a marvellous idea. I can see issues from both sides though, both rooted in our history instead of seeing it as an opportunity to look to the future. That appears to be our main problem in Ireland, a massive unwillingness to let go of the past perfect example being the comments about "800 years of colonization" on this thread. They were different less educated times, colonization and survival of the fittest were the order of the day, yes terrible things happened but we must let them go, if we dwell on them our feelings of anger and resentment will fester and grow and we will never move on.
Rugby internationals have both [COLOR=#417394]Amhrán na bhFiann[/COLOR] and Irelands Call played as I said before so your point about the Rugby team is in fact pointless.
It is ridiculous that our anthems still cause such issues, the FAI and IFA should come together as the AIFA (All Ireland Football Association) and put one team in for FIFA consideration, Irelands Call be the anthem and let football cement the peace process by giving every Irish person a common interest. It would also increase the quality of our team and show those living in the past that they are going to be left behind to cry over the milk they spilt.
Until that glorious day Ealing you shall just have to accept that players born in NI will always be qualified to play for ROI and we will continue to welcome them with open arms. You are right in an earlier post though, it does'nt mean you have to like it or accept it quietly - you will just have to put up with it.

[Nedser]

Oh the irony of people insisting that people like Darron Gibson should be allowed to choose to play for "their" country (ROI), in the same breath denying the right eg of his MU teammate Jonny Evans to play for his country (NI)...

As a matter of interest, what is your definition of "country"? According to the GFA, Darron Gibson , Jonny Evans, and anyone esle born in NI are entitled to British and/or Irish nationality, but not "Northern Irish" nationality, as there is no such thing. There is nothing ironic in saying that people born in NI should have to choose between a national team that represents one of the two nationalities that they are entitled to: Ireland or the United Kingdom.

It is not the "English Anthem", it is the anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland .

Actually it's both. It is currently the anthem of the UK, but it is also and was originally the anthem of England. In the same way that London is the capital of England and the UK. That doesn't mean NI should play their home games in London though, does it? GSTQ includes a verse about crushing the Scots, so it was hardly intended to be an all inclusive anthem that everyone in the UK could identify with. And let's not pretend that anyone outside England ever got a say in what the anthem of the UK should be. This is kind of the crux of why one half of the community in NI (and large parts of the community in Scotland and Wales) don't particularly like GSTQ.

Furthermore, as GSTQ is the UK anthem (as you point out), it would make sense to play it if the team represented the UK, but the whole issue is that it supposedly doesn't!!! You can't have it both ways - either NI is a "country" and therefore it should have its own anthem, or it's a region within the UK, in which case it shouldn't have an international football team in the first place.

[SilkCut]

As a matter of interest, what is your definition of "country"? According to the GFA, Darron Gibson , Jonny Evans, and anyone esle born in NI are entitled to British and/or Irish nationality, but not "Northern Irish" nationality, as there is no such thing. There is nothing ironic in saying that people born in NI should have to choose between a national team that represents one of the two nationalities that they are entitled to: Ireland or the United Kingdom.
.

I think he was trying to say that by having an all Ireland team we would be allowing Gibson to play for his country of choice (Ireland) whilst stopping Evans playing for his(Northern Ireland.)

[Nedser]

I think he was trying to say that by having an all Ireland team we would be allowing Gibson to play for his country of choice (Ireland) whilst stopping Evans playing for his(Northern Ireland.)

Yeah I got that, but my point is that the whole basis of Unionism on this island is that they want their country to be the UK, not Northern Ireland (or Ireland). I assume that's still the general position held by non-nationalists in the North, in which case establishing an all Ireland team would not in any way prevent them from representing their country. The only thing that stops them from representing their country is that their country does not currently field a team!

[boovidge]

Actually it's both. It is currently the anthem of the UK, but it is also and was originally the anthem of England.

England has never had its own national anthem. There is support to introduce one though. http://anthem4england.co.uk/

[Nedser]

England has never had its own national anthem. There is support to introduce one though. http://anthem4england.co.uk/

I was surprised that England has never had its own official anthem considering it was an independent country for about 800 years, but actually I think you're right.

However, my point still holds - GSTK was originally a song in honour of the English monarch rather than British (as it was written long before the creation of the Kingdom of Britain, which later became the UK). It also became established as the UK's national anthem by virtue of it being sung in London theatres in support of the English King George II who was in battle with Bonnie Prince Charlie at the time. Hence the lines added in that era "And like a torrent rush, Rebellious Scots to crush, God save the King". If you're interested, more information officially sanctioned by her majesty here.

Leaving aside all of that anyway, it's an anthem that at best only about 50-60% of the population of NI identify with, and even then they identify with it in the context of being "British" rather than "Northern Irish".

[boovidge]

When was GSTK first used? Because obviously if it was sung in England before the Union of the Crowns in 1603 then It can be described as an English "anthem". Since then the English and Scottish monarch has been the same. I've looked at wikipedia and it mentions an early version being published in 1745 well after the union of the crowns and 40 years after the Act of Union forming the state of Great Britain. If you have a more reliable source about its origins I'd be interested to see. I always interpreted the "rebellious Scots" bit of GSTK (frequently brought up in English/Scottish/British debates, though it's hardly ever used) to be targetting the rebellious Scots rather than Scots in general, of which many were "non-rebellious"

[ifk101]

This comment is in reply to my earlier point, which was as follows.
Namely, the FAI originally sought a "Gentlemens' Agreement" with the IFA to stop the two Associations from picking players from each others jurusdiction.
Then the FAI unilaterally broke the Agreement, for no other reason than self-interest.

Why would the FAI seek and settle for a "Gentleman's Agreement"? Surely, given that they were in conflict with the IFA, they would want to document this agreement rather than just seeking a verbal agreement?

The FIFA intervention in the 1950s was necessary simply because the IFA had joined FIFA and there could not exist a situation where players were choosing which Association they preferred to line-out for on a given day, for a given match. What the FIFA intervention "achieved" was (a) the introduction of the team names "Northern Ireland" and the "Republic of Ireland" (b) the division of the existant pool of international players on the basis of which side of the border they were born (remember there existed players at the time that had played for both associations so to decide which team these individual players would play for from this point on, their place of birth was used) and (c) the confirmation that the IFA was the association for Northern Ireland only (up to now the IFA had been operating as an all island association).

If a gentleman's agreement existed it would have been agreed in conjuction with the FIFA intervention or in the immediate aftermath of this intervention. However the only reference to this agreement is in an IFA commissioned book - so its existence is already in question. Conveniently enough the details of said and supposed agreement are very sketchy. Despite your insistence on the existence of the agreement you do not know basic information details like the date the agreement took place, where the agreement took place, who shook on the agreement etc etc. The only thing you believe to know about the agreement is the outcome. The latest IFA statement regarding FIFA's eligibility statues highlights the IFA's unique and historical lack of competence. That the IFA chose to harp on about Article 16 without bothering to read Article 15 of the eligibility statues is incompetence of the highest order. That the IFA subsequently chose to waste more time and resources (time and resources that could be best served developing players for us) in seeking FIFA to uphold the eligibility statutes is mind-blowing. Your "anger" towards the FAI is ultimately born from an inner realisation of the IFA's incompetence. But it's much more easier to blame somebody else than to accept your own failings.

[endabob1]

The FAI & IFA both have a role to play in getting this ironed out, I'm far from convinced about an AI team, not because I personally have an issue with it but I think there would be many who would, on both sides of the fence. Maybe in the future but I think we’re still a long way from that scenario.
It’s very convenient & rather schoolyard for the IFA to cry foul and run to FIFA saying “the big boys are stealing all our players” without them looking at the reasons behind the moves. Why did Lennon retire early? What effect did that have on underage Catholic players in NI? What can be done from the IFA to stem the tide? Personally I think they have made very little effort and a few simple steps would pave the way, replace GSTQ with Danny Boy (used in the Commonwealth games) or something more unique to NI.
If moving from Windsor isn’t an option anymore (I still think the idea of a multi-sports venue in Belfast is a fantastic solution) they should make more of an effort to reach the Nationalist community, I have friends from NI who would never dream of going to Windsor, but would come to Dublin reguarly for games
Now to the Fai. Stop the scouting of underage players. Stop the approaches to players of nationalist backgrounds with a view to turning their heads.
I have no problem if a kid from Derry or Belfast comes to the Fai and says, I want to play for you. I wouldn’t expect the FAI to turn him away, I would expect them to say okay we’ll consider you for future squads & let the IFA know the score. It’s the active recruiting that upsets NI fans and that’s where the FAI need to reign it in.

[Nedser]

When was GSTK first used? Because obviously if it was sung in England before the Union of the Crowns in 1603 then It can be described as an English "anthem". Since then the English and Scottish monarch has been the same. I've looked at wikipedia and it mentions an early version being published in 1745 well after the union of the crowns and 40 years after the Act of Union forming the state of Great Britain. If you have a more reliable source about its origins I'd be interested to see.

The same Wikipedia article refers to the "earliest known version by John Bull (1562–1628)". Doesn't really clear up whether that was before or after 1603. Anyway, the two monarchies and countries remained distinct until 1707, it just so happened that the same person held both from 1603 on. Also from Wikipedia "The term itself (Union of the Crowns), though now generally accepted, is misleading; for properly speaking this was merely a personal or dynastic union, the Crowns remaining both distinct and separate, despite James's best efforts to create a new "imperial" throne of 'Great Britain'. England and Scotland continued to be independent states".

Cas was not eligible until he became a citizen. NI born are already citizens.

I decided to dig out his book to refresh my memory. He actually played for Ireland for 11 years before he obtained an Irish passport. His exact words about the change of policy in 1996 were "On the eve of the game, we submitted our passports for inspection but were informed by officials of a change in FIFA rules, stipulating that all players had to be citizens of the country for which they had declared. I had always travelled under a British passport ........ If I want to play for Ireland again I'm going to need an Irish passport".

So in addition to common sense dictating that FIFA obviously would ask for proof of eligibility, we have an account of an incident in 1996 from a former player stating that FIFA requires players to produce passports to prove their nationality. I think we can put this to bed now, unless someone wishes to argue that Cascarino made this whole story up.

[dr_peepee]

Hang on, the IFA have engaged with some of these players (particularly Duffy) at great length. The assumption by some on here- that 'by all accounts he felt badly treated' doesn't ring true. Clearly he was very well treated and still refused to play. And let's be honest, there are varying reasons for moving to the RoI side that are well known: English guys wouldn't get in their side, Gibson and McGeady were unhappy at having to give up a club trial for a Scotland or NI representative game and so on. If Duffy never really wanted to play for any NI side, clearly we're well rid before he does a Biggles and sulks off in the middle of the senior qualifiers. More gently, if he was just considering his options we need to press for those options to be changed. It won't force anyone to play, at any level, but it just might save us good players who would otherwise be lost. In practice there will always be players from all backgrounds who see the attraction of playing international football.

And what do you feel was addressed after this engagement with Duffy? Or Gibson? You speak of good players that might otherwise be lost? Through a choice afforded to them. The IFA need to think of it in terms of 'Insulating' themselves from the ruling. That guy Kee has offered the only constructive statements in all of this, in my mind any way. I think the rest is very short sited.

[Paddy Garcia]

This comment is in reply to my earlier point, which was as follows.
Namely, the FAI originally sought a "Gentlemens' Agreement" with the IFA to stop the two Associations from picking players from each others jurusdiction.
Then the FAI unilaterally broke the Agreement, for no other reason than self-interest.
In my book, that is the definition of dishourable behaviour, and nothing* in your post can gainsay that.

The only dishonour is the fact that the FAI stuck with such a "gentlemens agreement" for so long, if indeed such a thing ever existed. At best is seems very loose.

As in all things it is necessary to make trade offs. What is the right decision: Stick with a loose agreement with the IFA or allow Irish men to play for their country, their entitlement ?

Over the years the IFA and their fans have done little to warrent loyalty from the FAI - perhaps in some alternative universe - but not thru the N Irish Vs Ireland games, plus all the other antics I've witnessed over many years.

[dantheman]

As I and many others have frequently pointed out, many NI fans would like to see GSTQ replaced, for a variety of reasons.
However, if you feel that this should be done because it alienates NI Nationalists, are you going to agree to the ROI replacing the Soldier's Song with something "neutral"? For that just as surely alienates NI Unionists.
Unless, of course, the FAI is not actually interested in picking a truly all-Ireland team i.e. Irish Unionists need not apply...

You didn't read the post did you? I said instead of talking hot air about liking to change the anthem, go and do it! I mentioned this on another thread, see below:

http://foot.ie/threads/128265-Norn-Iron-rubbish-part-23452346526?p=1291046&viewfull=1#post1291046

Any word on that meeting GR?

You know the one which might actually help you a lot more than running away to Switzerland...

Oh FFS!
We have proudly been the Irish Football Association for 130 years now, and aren't going to change that at the behest of some feeble-minded poster on a message board.

There has been little visible in being Irish for quite some time now, don't be silly. Feeble minded eh? What is it with the OWC fans and their reudction to name calling when they get their own way? Especially from Mr "F**k All Integrity". Tut tut tut.

Oh FFS!

Yes, you have to acknowledge. Show some humility, you are not in a good position!

When are you going to accept that there are two international teams in Ireland, only one of which approaches players to play for them irrespective of the player's religion, identity or background.

Only one of them boos their own players based on religion, identity or background.
NI fans calling the FAI sectarian is like the KKK calling the Jackson Five racist...

(And if you're unsure which one this latter is, you might find that eg the emerald green shirts with the Celtic Cross badge and shamrocks a useful clue)

Complete and utter rubbish.
Do you realistically think that the FAI would turn down Johnny Evans if offered? Nope
Do any southern rugby fans care whether Paddy Wallace, Ferris, two-try Tommy Bowe etc are Catholics/ Protestants/Mormons? Nope.

No-one questioned the religion of Houghton/Townsend/anyone who donned the Republic shirt, its not an issue in Dublin. Only up the road! Not in England, Wales and (by and large) Scotland either. Just because you have an issue, doesn't mean other people do. Get out of the trenches!

FAI scouts are regularly seen at NI under-age games, even outside NI. Every single player who is known to have been approached (eg McKenna, Baird, Gibson, Duffy etc) is from the Nationalist community. Indeed, the only NI player from the Unionist community who has represented ROI in the modern era was Alan Kernaghan - and then only because the IFA's Rules prevented us from picking him for us.

That's you own problem. Kernaghan is an example of how the IFA invent their own rules (and morality) as they see fit. Its also an example of how they panic after realising their own ineptitude. Just like now, dear oh dear, how history repeats...

Now I accept that the FAI does not deliberately set out to be sectarian, but the inevitable consequence of their policy must be to lead more closely to a situation whereby one Irish international team is effectively Protestant/Unionist and the other Catholic/Nationalist.

Just contradicted yourself there very quickly. The main reason why there may be a P/U & C/N team would be because ye exclude your nationalist community from your own team. That may turn out to be the inevitable consequence of your own policy. (facepalm)

If that is so, and the FAI is so concerned for their Nationalist fellow-countrymen in NI, how come they never eg protested to FIFA etc on their behalf?
How come they declined to pick such players for around five decades (under the Gentlemens' Agreement)?

Because they probably thought the IFA was run by a bunch of sectarian lunatics, and it was better not to get involved!!

It is not the "English Anthem", it is the anthem of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and far from "bellowing out" around WP, it lasts approx 90 seconds before the game even starts.

GO....AND...CHANGE...IT...

Now I'm not saying it should be played (it shouldn't, imo), but it can be no more objectionable to NI Nationalists than eg the playing of the SS is to NI Unionists when the Ireland rugby team plays at Lansdowne.

The IRFU have made a lot of steps to overcome this. Irelands Call was played at Twickenham on Saturday if you noticed. IRFU flags and not tricolours are predominant at matches. The flag of the Ulster branch of the IRFU is flown alongside the tricolour and IRUF flag at Corker/Lansdowne Road. Remember Ulster Rugby is responsible not just for the 6 counties of NI but also the other 3 counties as well. Under your criteria it would be just as inappropriate to fly the NI flag as the tricolour at Ravenhill (which is owned by the IRFU)
Some more needs to be done but, dear oh dear, the IFA have done none of the above Dear Lord EG you are desperate

Get over it.

Great attitude that. Get over the eligibility rules then!!!

As for the death threat, to this day no-one knows who did it - it was an anonymous phone call, without a recognised codeword, to a newspaper. I do not blame Lennon for taking it seriously, but the IFA and NI fans are no more to be blamed for that than eg Cork County GAA and their fans for the series of threats issued against the manager of their Hurling team.

The death threat was not issued for sectarian reasons, as you well know.

The various views which are expressed on OWC are no more "representative" of the NI team and stadium than this forum is of the ROI team etc.

It is the most popular forum, therefore it certainly more representative than any other

As said to fans of the 'North' many times, just be grateful you even have a team. And why not select the people who actually want to play for them?? Or is that not enough 'control freakery'??

Control freakery comes naturally to those brought up to think the place is theirs and theirs alone.
When they realise they cannot trap the minority (which they gerrymandered artificially), panic sets in and the childish name-calling and strops ensue

Eventually it will be a choice between an AI or AB team. What would prefer, besides an accident of history to date?

Bring on an all-UK team I say! Lets wrap this up once and for all. The NI fans can head to London, and we can get some peace...

As a matter of interest, what is your definition of "country"? According to the GFA, Darron Gibson , Jonny Evans, and anyone esle born in NI are entitled to British and/or Irish nationality, but not "Northern Irish" nationality, as there is no such thing. There is nothing ironic in saying that people born in NI should have to choose between a national team that represents one of the two nationalities that they are entitled to: Ireland or the United Kingdom.

NI fans call the UK a country or NI a country interchangely depending on their argument. Recently they have started calling themselves Irish to twist an eligibility ruling. Interesting if they are Irish why the would be reduced to insulting 80%+ of their own fellow countrymen/beggars/gypsies...

Actually it's both. It is currently the anthem of the UK, but it is also and was originally the anthem of England. In the same way that London is the capital of England and the UK. That doesn't mean NI should play their home games in London though, does it? GSTQ includes a verse about crushing the Scots, so it was hardly intended to be an all inclusive anthem that everyone in the UK could identify with. And let's not pretend that anyone outside England ever got a say in what the anthem of the UK should be. This is kind of the crux of why one half of the community in NI (and large parts of the community in Scotland and Wales) don't particularly like GSTQ.

Realistically GSTQ is the anthem of both (see Twickenham on Saturday). Its is less contentious in both Scotland & Wales, but is played in neither. Any NI fans on here wish to explain once more what the plan is regarding anthems ie dates/suggestions?

You can't have it both ways - either NI is a "country" and therefore it should have its own anthem, or it's a region within the UK, in which case it shouldn't have an international football team in the first place.

Its also Ireland (a la carte) when you trying to interpret the rules to stop the RCs from escaping to "beggarland"!

Yeah I got that, but my point is that the whole basis of Unionism on this island is that they want their country to be the UK, not Northern Ireland (or Ireland). I assume that's still the general position held by non-nationalists in the North, in which case establishing an all Ireland team would not in any way prevent them from representing their country. The only thing that stops them from representing their country is that their country does not currently field a team!

The existence of the NI team is in a much more dubious state than the allowance of any Irish-born person to represent Ireland. The IFA would need to watch themselves...

[EalingGreen]

In terms of the recruiting part - as long as the FAI is not making the first contact to a player who is currently playing for another country I have no problem, as long as the player or his proxy makes the first contact there can be no argument given the current rules. I especially welcome players who were born and raised in NI.

There is no shortage of evidence of players, already in the NI set-up, being approached. Without exception, these appear to have been from the Nationalist community
only. Known FAI scouts are frequently seen at NI under-age games, with their video cameras etc, sometimes even outside NI.
Considering these games include friendlies, or competitions in which the ROI are not involved (therefore not going to meet at some later stage), what other reason could these scouts have for being there, other than to run the eye over possible recruits?

The IFA can feel aggrieved but it's part and parcel of international sport these days.

So are crucial Handballs/Refereeing mistakes.
However, whilst human error is largely unavoidable, other grievances are "man-made" and so can be reversed.

If Shane Duffy or Darron Gibson are fulfilling an ambition to play for ROI why would the IFA want to stand in their way?

Er, because we feel that players born within our jurisdiction, on whom we have spent time, effort and money developing, ought not to be permitted to play for another Association without their also meeting the usual ancestry/residence criteria demanded of (every?) other Member Associations of FIFA worldwide.
Representing a country in international football is not a matter of choice; it cannot be, since it is essentially based on where a player (or his parents/grandparents) are born - something which self-evidently cannot be "chosen" by anyone! Instead, it is a matter of Eligibility.
To take a non-politically charged example, Andrew Driver wants to represent Scotland, he "feels" Scottish and lives and has plied his trade in Scotland for years. Moreover, the country of his birth (England), has no particular objection to his playing for Scotland. Yet he is ineligible to represent them under the four Home Associations' application of the eligibility criteria.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1250620/Andrew-Drivers-Scotland-dream-tatters-Hearts-winger-play-adopted-country.html

The problem in the NI/ROI context, however, is that a politically-motivated gesture by the Irish Government (i.e. the automatic right to a Passport granted to anyone born in NI) is being used anachronistically by the FAI to exploit a loophole in the application of the Eligibility requirements by FIFA.

It's also odd that they're reportedly going the legal route once more while at the same time acknowledging that Duffy is fully qualified and entitled to represent the ROI. Didn't they go the legal route last year when Gibson made his move, what has changed?

Everyone accepts that Duffy is entitled, via his Da, to play for ROI. However, the reason why this has flared up again is twofold. First, we have invested an enormous amount of capital in Duffy, who to all appearances was (at least) relatively happy to play for us. However, he looks to have had his head turned at a very late stage by a high-level intervention by the FAI/Brady. Such an intervention is "raising the stakes", regardless of his ancestral eligibility.
Second, as many as five(?) members of a current ROI under-age squad are NI-born. Quite honestly, we could have coped with the odd Saul Deeney or Henry McStay in the past, for the sake of good relations (if nothing else). But this now risks getting way too serious to ignore.

Given the political and historical situation FIFA cannot be allowed to deny any person born in NI the right to play for the ROI regardless of whether or not their parents or grandparents were born on the Island pre-partition. I suppose they could put in a clause that says children of immigrants from outside the island of Ireland wouldn't be qualified to play for ROI, I'm not sure if that is a gray area of not.

Disagree fundamentally, for two reasons.
First, FIFA has always abrogated to itself the complete right not to be influenced by Governments or other political bodies. That is why, for instance, it recognises 208 "countries" (Member Associations), when the United Nations only lists 192 Members. So that when eg Qatar conferred perfectly legal citizenship on a number of Brazilians so as to make them available to play football for them, FIFA rushed in a Rule that unless one has citizenship by birthright, then players must also meet additional eligibility criteria, such as ancestry or residence to play for their new country.
Such a measure was effective in suppressing any future moves by other countries; however, the application/interpretation of the new arrangement failed to take account of the (unique?) situation in Ireland, whereby the ROI automatically offers a Passport at birth to a group of people born outwith their own jurisdiction, for essentially political reasons.
Consequently, the IFA is getting "screwed" for the sake of other countries politics.
The second objection is that like it or not, Ireland has two international football Associations/teams, recognised by FIFA. Each Association/team should be accorded equal respect as regards jurisdiction etc.
However, one of these Associations (IFA) is being disadvantaged by the other Association exploiting an anachronism in the laws of its own Government in Dublin - an anachronism which does not work the other way and about which the IFA can do nothing. Worse still, this Passport-at-Birth was introduced by Dublin long before FIFA needed any such Eligibility criteria, and for reasons which had absolutely nothing to do with football.

In fairness to the FAI they made no issue of Shane Lowry & Paul Marshall leaving.

Not sure of the details of either player, but we (IFA) have not sought to exploit their situation either for our own ends, or at the expense of a neighbouring Association. In fact, we have not interfered in either case, by word or deed.

Also this talk about investing resources in player development is pretty much a lot of pish. The real development is done by the clubs, not the odd get together at international level.

Balls! Gibson was developed first by Institute FC (IFA member club) and as for Duffy, here is what his father had to say as recently as three weeks ago, on OWC:
"one thing is for sure there is no way shane would be were he is todayif it was not for n/ireland.from paddy mcgongle in the milk cup to dessie currie in the victory shield then paul kee u/17s to steve beadlehole u/19s 21s and nigal himself shane has so much respect for all these men any rightfull so all topmen,shane loves to play for n/ireland and always has done"

And Duffy is 18, how many 18 yr old prospects have actually gone on to be as good as people forecast. Is JOSH really the new Paul McGrath? Duffy could be playing League 1 in a couple of seasons, or injury could end it at any time.

Of course he might not make it. But considering that the FAI are rolling out the red carpet for him eg by inviting him and his family to be guests of honour at the Emirates tomorrow night etc, it seems they think he's got a great chance.

But it's like an employee choosing to go work somewhere else you have to respect their decision and wish them the best of luck, sport and even international sport today is a business, it's a career not just an honour.

If it just a "business" matter, why bother to have eligibility criteria in the first place?
Why not just let players represent whichever country they like?
Hell, we could have a transfer market between countries; that way, for the money we would receive from England for Jonny Evans, we could afford to "buy back" Gibson and Duffy and still have money left over...