Cork City denied a licence; club to be wound up; FORAS to enter First Division

[Lionel Ritchie]

A terrible day for Irish football.

Sympathies to the Cork City supporters. The entire league is weakened and diminished by a club going under like this.

Heard Joe Gamble interviewed on Morning Ireland and he wasn't hopeful or confident of any further developments by Friday.

[sonofstan]

This is awful.

I have every sympathy for Cork fans, players and officials (and even Paul Doolin) this morning.

If they haven't already, FORAS people need to sit down with people from Rovers to help them map out strategy to take over the club - or start a new club - and run it as a members club. Best ground in the league, best fans - both numbers wise, and enthusiasm: if Cork can't support a team in this league, nowhere can.

[pineapple stu]

Before the usual hoots of "why didn't the FAI do anything sooner and save us from ourselves" start in relation to that statement the only way the FAI could have prevented this was by taking over the running of clubs in the manner of franchise football.

I don't really agree with that. There has to be an earlier warning system put in place. This notion of penalties only applying if you're over 65% at the year's end isn't enough. Coughlan not meeting his repayment requirements to Revenue should have been the signal for the FAI to get involved, be it with a transfer embargo or a points deduction or something. It's been shown time and again (Dublin City, Drogheda, Shels, Bohs, Cork) that licencing doesn't work as a deterrent or as a detector, and I think the FAI need to take their share of the blame there (obviously Coughlan has to take most of the blame).

Echo most of what's been said about Cork fans thus far, including mocking don ramo.

[Ronnie]

This is awful.

I have every sympathy for Cork fans, players and officials (and even Paul Doolin) this morning.

If they haven't already, FORAS people need to sit down with people from Rovers to help them map out strategy to take over the club - or start a new club - and run it as a members club. Best ground in the league, best fans - both numbers wise, and enthusiasm: if Cork can't support a team in this league, nowhere can.

Small point - the option of taking over existing entity is a non runner.
New club needs a slow and measured early life. Players and fans need to be convinced that the long term strategy is right, businesses that have been stung by City need to be convinced that new guys are intent on doing things right. Still hard to believe that a few weeks short of 25 years in the League city are no more.

[sonofstan]

Small point - the option of taking over existing entity is a non runner.

Yeah, I see that - could an new business entity take over the name 'Cork City'?

[Ronnie]

Would not be an adiviasble thing to do. Need a clear break with the old, and be sure that no one can come after you for old stuff.

[razor]

its the exact same situation, fans have money for the club but wont hand it over, cause they built a demoracy and now dont like the person that they voted in and accepted,

What rubbish?
The Examiner appointed Coughlan, nobody voted him in or accepted him.

[Ezeikial]

When Arkaga bailed out the damage was done, the debts were so large that saving the club was beyond the means of fans.

AFAIK your own club isn't members owned or controlled so there's nothing to stop the same thing happening in Dundalk.

The implication here is that a member-owned club is a guarantee of sensible and prudent financial management- clearly not, as the current Bohs debacle illustrates.

There has to be an earlier warning system put in place. This notion of penalties only applying if you're over 65% at the year's end isn't enough. Coughlan not meeting his repayment requirements to Revenue should have been the signal for the FAI to get involved, be it with a transfer embargo or a points deduction or something. It's been shown time and again (Dublin City, Drogheda, Shels, Bohs, Cork) that licencing doesn't work as a deterrent or as a detector, and I think the FAI need to take their share of the blame there (obviously Coughlan has to take most of the blame).

Echo most of what's been said about Cork fans thus far, including mocking don ramo.

It must be crystal clear at this stage that the "rope is too long", and while the 65% rule is a step in the right direction it is insufficient in itself. Apart from unequivocal implementation of the sanctions for breaching this rule, the FAI need to introduce further "early warning" measures with appropriate penalaties for clubs - defaulting on Revenue payments is a consistent indicator of impending financial implosion. Ultimately the mindset of those running clubs needs to change, but all the available evidence is that this will not happen without stringent regulation by the governing body.

[OneRedArmy]

The implication here is that a member-owned club is a guarantee of sensible and prudent financial management- clearly not, as the current Bohs debacle illustrates.

No, that's your implication.

What being a members owned club does it take away the opportunity that one person, or a small number of people, can do something stupid.

It doesn't solve all ills, but it's the best form of organisation for fans, as proved all around the world.

[Ronnie]

It must be crystal clear at this stage that the "rope is too long", and while the 65% rule is a step in the right direction it is insufficient in itself. Apart from unequivocal implementation of the sanctions for breaching this rule, the FAI need to introduce further "early warning" measures with appropriate penalaties for clubs - defaulting on Revenue payments is a consistent indicator of impending financial implosion. Ultimately the mindset of those running clubs needs to change, but all the available evidence is that this will not happen without stringent regulation by the governing body.[/QUOTE]

But is the Cork scenario not the ultimate test. I'm no great fan of the process, but the clubs were against the 65%, esp the big ones (or that seasons big ones, Drogs, Shels, Cork, as it was restrictive!!!!.)
We have had clubs relegated, Shels, deducted points, Drogs, Rovers, Longford, Cork. In all those case, bar Cork, the lessons seemed to have been learned. Looks like the next to be punished will be Bohs and remains to be seen whther they will learn or not. The lesson? In our league paying wages of 2million a year is nuts!

[sheao]

Absolutly gutted that it has come to this,but you could see it happening as to be honest we were like a financial time bomb waiting to explode over the last year and yesterday's news left my hartbroken last night. Life without this club for me is unthinkable

[pineapple stu]

I don't really agree with that. There has to be an earlier warning system put in place. This notion of penalties only applying if you're over 65% at the year's end isn't enough.

Actually, isn't there a bit in the licence agreement that states a club has to be solvent (defined here as having more assets than liabilities) to get a licence? There's several clubs this clearly doesn't apply to. So the FAI are flouting their own rules in this regard.

[Ezeikial]

AFAIK your own club isn't members owned or controlled so there's nothing to stop the same thing happening in Dundalk.

[QUOTE]

The implication here is that a member-owned club is a guarantee of sensible and prudent financial management- clearly not, as the current Bohs debacle illustrates.
QUOTE]

No, that's your implication.

It seems to me a reasonable interpretation of your original statement - if you mean something different, please clarify.

What being a members owned club does it take away the opportunity that one person, or a small number of people, can do something stupid.

But it also opens up the possibility that a large number of people, led by a few, can also do something stupid. You don't need to search hard for the current evidence of this.

It doesn't solve all ills, but it's the best form of organisation for fans, as proved all around the world.

It's understandable that you would be in favour of a members-owned solution, given recent history at Cork City. A new FORAS-owned club, is probably the best (maybe the only) road forward for Cork, and I fervently wish that this succeeds - I hope that other Cork City supporters are also mindfull of your point that it doesn't solve all ills.

[pineapple stu]

if you mean something different, please clarify.

In fairness, I think his post already clarified for you, and comes to the same conclusions you did, more or less.

[adamd164]

With the revenue now only accepting the full amount or nothing by Friday, it really is the end of any hope that might have lingered there. Club will fold.