IL fans view on AIL

[ifk101]

Ha ha. The Irish League is actually ranked ahead of that in Wales as well as the Faeroes, while the League of Ireland is behind many smaller countries with part-time football. In short, they're both no more than mediocre, so like you I'd want same convincing that a merged league would significantly change this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficients

Look again.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2009.html


no better in the South
of Sweden? Europe? The Confederacy?


and the Blues and Glens could look to Scotland?
Yes by all means they should keep their options open. Their "services" are in demand after all.

[Gather round]

Thanks for the correction to detail, no need to sneer :confused:

Clearly the main point stands- both Irish League and League of Ireland are no more than mediocre, as I said. That doesn't mean that they can't benefit from each other, maybe even merge, but let's see a credible business plan first?

I watch most of my club football in English Divisions 5-7 (Conference, its north and south feeders and the Southern League). I'd put the LOI at a similar level to Division 6 and the Irish League D7. (Most of the clubs in D5, the Conference, are full-time nowadays: our teams wouldn't sustain at that level). I realise you are teasing, but for a 'provincial' feeder system to work in Ireland, and be attractive to the IL, the LOI would have to be a lot better, measured by European results and proportion of full-time players. Which realistically isn't going to happen.

Just out of interest, do you watch the Swedish Leagues in Goteborg and locally? How do standards compare?

[ifk101]

Thanks for the correction to detail, no need to sneer :confused:

It's not sneering. It highlights the folly in the belief that some posters have that merging with one of Europe's weakest domestic leagues represents an "improvement".


Just out of interest, do you watch the Swedish Leagues in Goteborg and locally? How do standards compare?

I don't live in Göteborg ;). The team I watch play in the third tier of Swedish football.

Regarding standards, I say the majority of teams in the LOI Premier Division could compete in the top flight of Swedish football. Obviously there are clubs in the top flight of Swedish football that are on a different level to all LOI clubs but there a number that aren't. For example, Häcken, Gefle (knocked out of Europe by a Llanelli a few years ago) and Brommapojkarna would be mid-table teams in the LOI at best.

[Gather round]

1fk- I read the sneer as much in your reaction to "the South". Relax, I won't use it again.

I don't think an AIL is a runner, for broadly the same reasons as others on the thread. The Irish League is weak and has been badly run for decades, although recent changes (reduced top division, investment in facilities, minimum required standards) give some hope for improvement. A half-and-half split isn't realistic on either playing or attendance grounds, but much less than that and the IL clubs may see little in it. On the other hand, if economic problems mean pressure on LOI clubs to revert to amateur status, then the rump might be quite glad of Belfast clubs that can attract a decent crowd. If cross border leagues are accepted in principle, then I'd say the Blues and Glens could quite readily move to Scotland, and we just as welcome there.

In short, I can see any merger only in pretty specific and stark circumstances. But one party being much weaker than the other doesn't mean it's completely illogical, captain.

Re the Swedish leagues, my follow up question is the extent of full-time clubs and players. Broadly, for a club's standards to rise it isn't enough to have more, or even exclusively full-timers- they need to be playing against full-timers regularly too. Otherwise the gap in fitness etc. is just too wide. However much LOI and IL winners dominate their own leagues, they'd do well to avoid relegation from the English Conference until they'd adjusted.

[ifk101]

I don't think an AIL is a runner.... A half-and-half split isn't realistic on either playing or attendance grounds, but much less than that and the IL clubs may see little in it. On the other hand, if economic problems mean pressure on LOI clubs to revert to amateur status, then the rump might be quite glad of Belfast clubs that can attract a decent crowd.

I agree. There are a number of factors that suggest that a 50:50 split isn't ideal or realistic but as you say the IL is unlikely to accept anything less. Nevertheless I believe that my compromise proposal, ie the IL "joining" the A Championship, is the most viable proposal suggested so far as it reduces the risks involved in an AIL, allows the IL to easily pull out if it so wishes, presents IL clubs with the choice to determine their own individual direction and protects the interests of all LOI clubs.


Re the Swedish leagues, my follow up question is the extent of full-time clubs and players. Broadly, for a club's standards to rise it isn't enough to have more, or even exclusively full-timers- they need to be playing against full-timers regularly too. Otherwise the gap in fitness etc. is just too wide. However much LOI and IL winners dominate their own leagues, they'd do well to avoid relegation from the English Conference until they'd adjusted.

I really don't know how strong or weak the lower leagues of English football are. But the LOI is much further down the professional route than the IL and, correspondingly, much more of a competitive force and capable of adjusting in a more competitive setting. As such, a 50:50 merger to create an AIL would see most IL clubs struggling to compete with the top LOI clubs over the course of a season IMO.

[citybone]

Ill throw in my 2 cent

I think have a 12 team AIL premier division with a split just like Scotland.
Have 2 Seperate Cup Competitions, there is pressident for this with FC Vaduz in Leichtenstein play in the Leichtenstein Cup but the Swiss League or the Welsh clubs in the FA cup...
Have a Irish league and League of Ireland below this with one automatic promotion spot each and one playoff position (2nd in the IL and LOI), have 2 automatic relagation from the AIL and 2 playoff spots (10th/9th in the AIL)

This should give 1 Champions league spot and 2 Europa league spots for the League and another 2 Europa league spots for the 2 cup's less than now but one more than similar sized league's, it would also garentee each association would compete in Europe if UEFA agree to this that is???

[WexCar]

I'm bored so here is a rough idea of how to go about a AIL


Ill throw in my 2 cent

I think have a 12 team AIL premier division with a split just like Scotland.
Have 2 Seperate Cup Competitions, there is pressident for this with FC Vaduz in Leichtenstein play in the Leichtenstein Cup but the Swiss League or the Welsh clubs in the FA cup...
Have a Irish league and League of Ireland below this with one automatic promotion spot each and one playoff position (2nd in the IL and LOI), have 2 automatic relagation from the AIL and 2 playoff spots (10th/9th in the AIL)

This should give 1 Champions league spot and 2 Europa league spots for the League and another 2 Europa league spots for the 2 cup's less than now but one more than similar sized league's, it would also garentee each association would compete in Europe if UEFA agree to this that is???

Agree with this except have a 16 team league.
For the part in bold have 3 relegated to two regional leagues, the top 3 from each regional league would go into 2 legged play-off with team from the other regional league with winners being promoted.

As regards the teams that make up the league use a system like this (switching to winter season for start of 2011/2012 season)

IL (normal '09/'10-'10/'11)
LOI ('09 normal) ('10/'11 28 team league for 15 months[march '10 to end april '11] with 2 month break in middle)***

AIL winter season
2011/2012 12 IL teams + top 12 LOI from '10/'11***
2012/2013 top 16 from previous season

(* long season I know but best way of getting the best teams into top league)

[osarusan]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4P7XNSaTqgg/SbMw4MuVAyI/AAAAAAAAAZs/rSUPZyd3PIY/s200/circular+argument.png

[Umberside]

I get it.

I don't.

[pól-dcfc]

I don't.

You wouldn't.

[Umberside]

You wouldn't.

Correct.