Provisional Licence D-Day

[Newryrep]

I have a similar line of thought on doctors. Screw this medical qualification BS - it's costing the state stupid money.

Fail to see the link between doctors training and driving instructor regulation ?

Whats the worst that can happen wrt having a **** driving instructor - you fail your test - the world is hardly going to stop spinning

Do what everybody else does in this county - Phone Joe Duffy and blame the **** instructor and not the fact that you are a **** driver and were too stupid to know that it was a **** instructor teaching you.

[John83]

Fail to see the link between doctors training and driving instructor regulation ?

Whats the worst that can happen wrt having a **** driving instructor - you fail your test - the world is hardly going to stop spinning

Do what everybody else does in this county - Phone Joe Duffy and blame the **** instructor and not the fact that you are a **** driver and were too stupid to know that it was a **** instructor teaching you.
**** drivers kill people too.

[osarusan]

Whats the worst that can happen wrt having a **** driving instructor - you fail your test - the world is hardly going to stop spinning

Thats if you assume that the driving tests will fail everybody who is a crap driver - which we all know isn't true. There are plenty of people who can't drive well at all who have licences.

So, with that in mind, the worst thing that can happen with having a ***** driving instructor is that you kill somebody on the road, and the world certainly stops spinning for them.

[Billsthoughts]

Are people seriously comparing regulating Doctors with regulating driving instructors?
:rolleyes:
No need to regulate instructors.

[Newryrep]

**** drivers kill people too.

Agreed, so pass your test/exam overseen by a regulated tester.

[Newryrep]

Thats if you assume that the driving tests will fail everybody who is a crap driver - which we all know isn't true. There are plenty of people who can't drive well at all who have licences..

Then that is the fault of the tester who is supposed to be regulated - they should of been failed. So do we enforce the present regulations on the tester or do we bring in new ones on instructors. It it my understanding that alot of old people got issued licences without any tests is this what you mean by people who cant drive ?



So, with that in mind, the worst thing that can happen with having a ***** driving instructor is that you kill somebody on the road, and the world certainly stops spinning for them.

A **** driving instructor means you fail the test - you shouldnt be in a car on your own to kill anyone.

I will repeat myself - this is driving a car ,- we are not talking about piloting the space shuttle.

The governement has better things to do with its time and money than regulate who gives driving lessons.

If the present laws were enforced rather then new headline grabbing laws brought in it might make for more sanity on the roads.

[osarusan]

Then that is the fault of the tester who is supposed to be regulated
Agreed, but is it not also the fault of the instructor for teaching the faulty driving technique (or not eliminating it over the space of a few lessons)?

Why say that one should be held accountable, but not the other?



I will repeat myself - this is driving a car ,- we are not talking about piloting the space shuttle.

Absolutely, drivers of cars kill countless times the people that pilots of space shuttles do. It's far more important to make every effort to reduce the chances of accidents happening.

[pete]

If instructors were properly trained then maybe we would not have so many people failing the tests?

To quote a former work colleague "guy at former office gave me some lessons around the car park, when I went on the road I did not understand why the car was slow going up the hill (i.e. did not know about gears)..." :eek:

Lessons should be mandatory & if doing that needed to have trained instructors. Cars kill people!

Doctors are very unlikely to kill people as they are already sick when they see them. Sure look at that guy who the Catch Me is You Can movie was based on - he impersonated a doctor for years.

[Billsthoughts]

If they didnt know about gears they wouldnt pass the test.

[John83]

Doctors are very unlikely to kill people as they are already sick when they see them. Sure look at that guy who the Catch Me is You Can movie was based on - he impersonated a doctor for years.
Truth be told, I think he mainly impersonated an administrator in a hospital. If he'd been actually practicing medicine, he'd have killed people left, right and centre.

[pete]

If they didnt know about gears they wouldnt pass the test.

True but proves people should not be allowed near the road without some validation of basic knowledge. Theory test does not count.

He passed at second attempt surprisingly. Kind of triggered this thread. ;)

[OneRedArmy]

Anyone hear the woman on Newstalk this morning who protested that you didn't need to be able to reverse a car to drive properly?

Pure comedy gold.

Interestingly, it was confirmed that people who drive unsupervised on a provisional license will still be covered by their insurance. I find this strange.

[shantykelly]

Anyone hear the woman on Newstalk this morning who protested that you didn't need to be able to reverse a car to drive properly?

Pure comedy gold.

Interestingly, it was confirmed that people who drive unsupervised on a provisional license will still be covered by their insurance. I find this strange.

can you be insured to perform an illegal activity? crazy if you can.

[pete]

Anyone hear the woman on Newstalk this morning who protested that you didn't need to be able to reverse a car to drive properly?

Did not hear that but caught the tail end of some guy saying he would have to drive illegally as had no other option to get to college. Had been only driving 7 months so only not allowed to sit test.

I expect more moaning & hard luck stories to emerge this week. Tough liuck as there has been enough notice of this & days of buying car before getting full licence are gone now & people need to look at passing test between 17-20 years old.

If you look at the numbers of people on provisionals that was in the media last week it shows a huge drop from 2nd to 3rd. It should now be possible to easily get 2 tests within a 6 month period.

[Joe Strummer]

Passed my test this morning on second attempt, thank f#ck!! :)

Poor girl that went out before me to do the test never even got to start the car, I think something must have been up with the car and they would not let her sit the test, she was nearly in tears.

[DeNiro]

I had a friend who did the test last week and he failed. He rang me today and is gutted. He's afraid to drive. I said to him that when he passes he will have to display 'R' plates, denoting restricted driver. But he thinks not.

Any clear this up?

[pete]

I had a friend who did the test last week and he failed. He rang me today and is gutted. He's afraid to drive. I said to him that when he passes he will have to display 'R' plates, denoting restricted driver. But he thinks not.
Any clear this up?

I believe that is only in NI. R plates do not exist here.

There are number of issues that will ensure failure before even sitting in the car. I know of a guy whose passenger door could not be opened from the inside so tester did not discover it until the end of the test. I believe passenger door opening from the inside is an actual specific requirement in the notification letter.

Even though there seems to have been more around recently it seems that most people don't display L plate as with 300k+ provisional licence holders they seem far too rare. The numbers will probably drop even more now otherwise people driving on their own would stand out too much.

[Billsthoughts]

I would say I have seen more people with L plates now than ever before. I think whatever about being caught with no driver in car with you; no L plates is a deffo red card offence as it implies you are deliberatly trying to evade the law. I think you will see some initial leniancy towards people with L plates but no fully licenced driver. You wont get the same for the provisionals with no L plates. I feel sorry for anyone who still needs it as the system is ridiculous.

[OneRedArmy]

I had a friend who did the test last week and he failed. He rang me today and is gutted. He's afraid to drive. I said to him that when he passes he will have to display 'R' plates, denoting restricted driver. But he thinks not.

Any clear this up?And rightly so, as he isn't permitted to drive unaccompanied.

I'm still amazed at how many people think driving is a right rather than a privilege.

[DeNiro]

While I agree with him being off the road. I think individual practice is the key to any learning experience. I suspect that if you had someone beside you all the time when you were driving that it would be become a sort of crutch.

[OneRedArmy]

While I agree with him being off the road. I think individual practice is the key to any learning experience. I suspect that if you had someone beside you all the time when you were driving that it would be become a sort of crutch.I learned to drive in the North. I had someone beside me up and until I passed my test. Its the way the rest of the world does it.

[Billsthoughts]

I'm still amazed at how many people think driving is a right rather than a privilege.

are you serious?
People who havent passed the test in the republic should not be allowed drive here unless accompanied by someone who has passed the test here.

[GavinZac]

With there still existing week waiting period after an application and over 1 in 3 people still failing, they should've left it go longer until the waiting period is down further. As it stands it looks like the only way to be optimistic about it is say perhaps they're making things worse so there'll be less resistence to radically making it better.

I'm off the road anyway, here's hoping the turtles in micls' house survive while she's away as I won't be up to feed them. Blood on your hands, minister :mad: :D

[OneRedArmy]

are you serious?
People who havent passed the test in the republic should not be allowed drive here unless accompanied by someone who has passed the test here.:confused: You've lost me...

[oldyouth]

I'm just reading this thread for the 1st time and I'm gobsmacked. Any driver of any age or 'miles' under their belt should NEVER be allowed to drive without a qualified driver unless they have passed a test. I don't give a damn about where you have to go or no alternatives available etc.
I use the road every day and often carry the kids with me. What right has an unqualified driver to put our safety in jeopardy? How dare any such person try and justify it.
Everybody has to start somewhere in learning to drive but do it with the minimum possibility of harming themselves or others. Check the death toll on our roads from now until this day next week and them let me have your reasoned argument.

[GavinZac]

I'm just reading this thread for the 1st time and I'm gobsmacked. Any driver of any age or 'miles' under their belt should NEVER be allowed to drive without a qualified driver unless they have passed a test. I don't give a damn about where you have to go or no alternatives available etc.
I use the road every day and often carry the kids with me. What right has an unqualified driver to put our safety in jeopardy? How dare any such person try and justify it.
Everybody has to start somewhere in learning to drive but do it with the minimum possibility of harming themselves or others. Check the death toll on our roads from now until this day next week and them let me have your reasoned argument.

I'm not disputing that drivers need to have some sort of qualification behind them before they go driving but the system at the moment is pathetic compared to other countries. The idea that someone driving in a certain manner for 35 minutes makes them a safe, responsible driver is ridiculous. A proper education in road manners, the law, good habits and on the consequences of bad driving are whats needed. I have driven quite a bit as a provisional driver and all you need to do is travel on a dual carriageway at the legal speed limit and watch who's going past you. It isn't learner drivers, its full licensed drivers in beemers and mercs. You only need to watch the guy who thinks its alright to sneak past the first few seconds of the red light. Show me the truck driver who's parked across a cross hatched junction. I can't find the statistics on fatal car crashes involving learner drivers, whether they're higher or lower but making some assumption that requiring they have a second (practically useless for most people) driver in the car will make no real difference to the statistics. The death toll on our roads may be high but it has been consistently dropping; it isn't because we're all magically better drivers, its because people's attitudes have been changed, and if anything that is more prevalent in younger drivers than habit-bound older people.

[Billsthoughts]

:confused: You've lost me...
merely pointing out that stupid ill thought out laws are not that great when they effect you.

I'm not disputing that drivers need to have some sort of qualification behind them before they go driving but the system at the moment is pathetic compared to other countries. The idea that someone driving in a certain manner for 35 minutes makes them a safe, responsible driver is ridiculous. A proper education in road manners, the law, good habits and on the consequences of bad driving are whats needed. I have driven quite a bit as a provisional driver and all you need to do is travel on a dual carriageway at the legal speed limit and watch who's going past you. It isn't learner drivers, its full licensed drivers in beemers and mercs. You only need to watch the guy who thinks its alright to sneak past the first few seconds of the red light. Show me the truck driver who's parked across a cross hatched junction. I can't find the statistics on fatal car crashes involving learner drivers, whether they're higher or lower but making some assumption that requiring they have a second (practically useless for most people) driver in the car will make no real difference to the statistics. The death toll on our roads may be high but it has been consistently dropping; it isn't because we're all magically better drivers, its because people's attitudes have been changed, and if anything that is more prevalent in younger drivers than habit-bound older people.

exactly. majority of bad drivers are not learners. having someone in the car with you is of absolutely no benefit unless you are actually driving for the first time. some people on provisionals have been driving a couple of years or more. what benefit will having someone in the car do them? how will that stop them crashing?

[pete]

Saw Questions & Answers tonight & girl in the audience complaining about the new law. Apparently she "worked in the film industry" & worked unusual hours & repeated several times "who is going to drive me to work". John Bowman asked if she could not get a taxi. She replied asking if "she looked like she could afford a taxi" when clearly she did. :D

[oldyouth]

I'm not disputing that drivers need to have some sort of qualification behind them before they go driving but the system at the moment is pathetic compared to other countries. The idea that someone driving in a certain manner for 35 minutes makes them a safe, responsible driver is ridiculous. A proper education in road manners, the law, good habits and on the consequences of bad driving are whats needed. I have driven quite a bit as a provisional driver and all you need to do is travel on a dual carriageway at the legal speed limit and watch who's going past you. It isn't learner drivers, its full licensed drivers in beemers and mercs. You only need to watch the guy who thinks its alright to sneak past the first few seconds of the red light. Show me the truck driver who's parked across a cross hatched junction. I can't find the statistics on fatal car crashes involving learner drivers, whether they're higher or lower but making some assumption that requiring they have a second (practically useless for most people) driver in the car will make no real difference to the statistics. The death toll on our roads may be high but it has been consistently dropping; it isn't because we're all magically better drivers, its because people's attitudes have been changed, and if anything that is more prevalent in younger drivers than habit-bound older people.
There are some pretty sh*te drivers out there alright and if,as you say, you are a better diver than them then you'll have no problem passing the test. Under the old system, those drivers of 'beemers and mercs' could easily have provisional licences........
And, as a chap in his 40's, I will happily acknowledge that the majority of younger drivers today are more responsible with cars than we were. The problem nowadays however, are that there are twice as many cars on the road and today's younger generation can afford more powerful cars than we could.
Bottom line is, without enforcing stricter access to our roads, you cannot distinguish the good learner driver from the one that should never be let near a road.


merely pointing out that stupid ill thought out laws are not that great when they effect you.


exactly. majority of bad drivers are not learners. having someone in the car with you is of absolutely no benefit unless you are actually driving for the first time. some people on provisionals have been driving a couple of years or more. what benefit will having someone in the car do them? how will that stop them crashing?
Firstly, someone who has been driving for a couple of years should have passed their test. If you have failed, what does that say other than you are not ready to drive independantly.
Secondly, a qualified driver with you can impart advice, guidance and experience. That was a silly point

[OneRedArmy]

merely pointing out that stupid ill thought out laws are not that great when they effect you.


exactly. majority of bad drivers are not learners. having someone in the car with you is of absolutely no benefit unless you are actually driving for the first time. some people on provisionals have been driving a couple of years or more. what benefit will having someone in the car do them? how will that stop them crashing?Then the only option is moving to a situation whereby learners can only drive either on private property or with a registered driving instruction in the car.

The current law is certain less stupid and ill thought on that the previous one.

[Billsthoughts]

Firstly, someone who has been driving for a couple of years should have passed their test. If you have failed, what does that say other than you are not ready to drive independantly.
Secondly, a qualified driver with you can impart advice, guidance and experience. That was a silly point
1) up until last couple of months the waiting times were ridiculous so no ,someone who was driving for a couple of years probably got there test once if it all.
2) I disagree with your point that having a qualified driver with someone who has been driving a few years is any use. Why are they driving a few years without a full licence? the waiting times were ridiculous.

Then the only option is moving to a situation whereby learners can only drive either on private property or with a registered driving instruction in the car.

The current law is certain less stupid and ill thought on that the previous one.

Well then the fault lies with the law makers not the drivers.

[OneRedArmy]

1) up until last couple of months the waiting times were ridiculous so no ,someone who was driving for a couple of years probably got there test once if it all.
2) I disagree with your point that having a qualified driver with someone who has been driving a few years is any use. Why are they driving a few years without a full licence? the waiting times were ridiculous.


Well then the fault lies with the law makers not the drivers.Are you trying to argue the current law should've been left alone?

You're aren't being particularly clear on what you think should happen.

[Macy]

The current law is certain less stupid and ill thought on that the previous one.
Unless the new one is properly enforced, it's just as useless.

[Billsthoughts]

Are you trying to argue the current law should've been left alone?

You're aren't being particularly clear on what you think should happen.

Im saying that the way the law was introduced has inconvenienced a lot of people who wouldnt have been in this position if it wasnt for the fact that the authorities failed to deal with the back logs in tests. 18 months in most places up until very recently. You should put yourself in their position and show a bit of understanding of other people before getting all high and mighty about a process you have said yourself you have never even had to endure.

[pete]

Unless the new one is properly enforced, it's just as useless.

What is the punishment/fine if provisional licence holder caught driving unattended? Is it penalty points or do they have to walk home?

:confused:

[OneRedArmy]

Im saying that the way the law was introduced has inconvenienced a lot of people who wouldnt have been in this position if it wasnt for the fact that the authorities failed to deal with the back logs in tests. 18 months in most places up until very recently. You should put yourself in their position and show a bit of understanding of other people before getting all high and mighty about a process you have said yourself you have never even had to endure.The average waiting time was 12 months, not 18. But that was a year ago.

Given the current test waiting times (down below 10 weeks), everyone has had the chance to take at least one test since the announcement a year ago. Surely you don't dispute that?

I'm also not sure why I should show some understanding? I interact with these drivers every day of the week?! Allowing learners on the road on their own (and requiring a driver to be with them definitely reduces the learners opportunity to drive) isn't a zero sum gain. It more than likely causes accidents.

You're defending the indefensible and whilst the old law was patently ridiculous and their are flaws in the current one, that in no way justifies leaving it as is.

Driving is a privilege not a right.

[John83]

What is the punishment/fine if provisional licence holder caught driving unattended? Is it penalty points or do they have to walk home?

:confused:
I imagine it would be treated the same way as driving while suspended - walking home. I'm just guessing though.

[Billsthoughts]

The average waiting time was 12 months, not 18. But that was a year ago.

Given the current test waiting times (down below 10 weeks), everyone has had the chance to take at least one test since the announcement a year ago. Surely you don't dispute that?

I'm also not sure why I should show some understanding? I interact with these drivers every day of the week?! Allowing learners on the road on their on (and requiring a driver to be with them definitely reduces the learners opportunity to drive) isn't a zero sum gain. It more than likely causes accidents.

You're defending the indefensible and whilst the old law was patently ridiculous and their are flaws in the current one, that in no way justifies leaving it as is.

Driving is a privilege not a right.

Like I said the system was flawed before now and putting our heads in the sands and saying it "this is the way its gonna be" isnt much help to a person who needs the car to get to work and has been working on the basis that they have been able to do this. Bring in the laws by all means but show a bit of compassion to people who are the victims of stupidity and incompetance in governance.

[OneRedArmy]

Like I said the system was flawed before now and putting our heads in the sands and saying it "this is the way its gonna be" isnt much help to a person who needs the car to get to work and has been working on the basis that they have been able to do this. Bring in the laws by all means but show a bit of compassion to people who are the victims of stupidity and incompetance in governance.How long do you show compassion for? At some stage its got to be enforced.

Anyway I think the guards have basically said in the last few weeks that they aren't going to enforce it.

[Billsthoughts]

How long do you show compassion for? At some stage its got to be enforced.
.

I agree. But the way it was done was wrong. I am merely pointing out that just cause it doesnt affect you or me doesnt mean it isnt a monumental pain in the hole for other people. A pain that isnt entirely their own making.

[dahamsta]

Like I said the system was flawed before now and putting our heads in the sands and saying it "this is the way its gonna be" isnt much help to a person who needs the car to get to work and has been working on the basis that they have been able to do this. Bring in the laws by all means but show a bit of compassion to people who are the victims of stupidity and incompetance in governance.Billthoughts, I don't like the way you debate on this site. ORA has tackled your argument with facts and figures and you have ignored these statements completely and continued with an ethereal argument that has no place in a Current Affairs forum. You need to change the way you post in here or find another place to discuss these subjects.

On this topic in particular, you need to refrain from replying immediately unless you're going to respond with anything other than repetitive emotional claptrap.

adam

[John83]

I agree. But the way it was done was wrong. I am merely pointing out that just cause it doesnt affect you or me doesnt mean it isnt a monumental pain in the hole for other people. A pain that isnt entirely their own making.
They knew it was coming in a year ago. Then it got pushed back by a whole year. Waiting times for tests are now 2-3 months, and the pass rates are unusually high, either because people are taking the deadline seriously or because of some lax standards in texting. There's no excuse for not having gotten your licence in the last 12 months if you really, really need it and aren't completely incompetent.

[pete]

Colleague at work said that her brother had to cancel his test 3 times in the last 6 or so months due to the fact he was on holidays & other unavoidable circumstances. I got the impression he was not complaining about it but it also shows that it has been possible to get a test & the authorities have been making an effort to accommodate people.

[GavinZac]

They knew it was coming in a year ago. Then it got pushed back by a whole year. Waiting times for tests are now 2-3 months, and the pass rates are unusually high, either because people are taking the deadline seriously or because of some lax standards in texting. There's no excuse for not having gotten your licence in the last 12 months if you really, really need it and aren't completely incompetent.

:confused: they only came out with the plan in november, and at that time tried to tell us they were doing it the next monday!

[John83]

As late as November? I'd thought earlier. Anyway, that's still more than seven months, and plenty of time.

[Bald Student]

My sister got 2 tests between then and now.

[GavinZac]

As late as November? I'd thought earlier. Anyway, that's still more than seven months, and plenty of time.

Plenty of time in some places maybe but in those 7 months I've gotten 1 test date and became one of the 1/3 due to a mix up about test centres. I applied afterwards and still haven't got another date. Compared to systems in much more populous countries where you're almost guaranteed a license within a few weeks, its a poor system. I'm all for controlling standards but this does nothing except criminalise a few hundred thousand of our workforce. If they'd even waited until the waiting list came down to 2 weeks, it'd be at least manageable.

[Macy]

Is there a few hundred thousand with 2nd provisionals? For all the hullabaloo, they were the only one's effected by the law change (which goes back to my point about enforcement).

[anto1208]

Its hard to have sympathy for people in this one, If you are on your first/3rd provisional this doesn’t affect you as you are not aloud to drive on your own anyway, just because it was enforced doesn’t mean it was ok, everyone knows the rules.

If your on your 2nd you have been driving for a minimum of 2 years and I think you have to have done at least 1 test to get your 2nd.

When they first tried to bring in the law they did show compassion to the people on 2nds by putting it off by 8 months and reducing the waiting time substantially so no one has an excuse.

If after 2 ½ years driving and failing 2 tests I don’t think you are able to drive properly and therefore shouldn’t be aloud out on your own until you learn to drive to an acceptable standard.

If this was such a big worry about getting to work for people you would think they would have made it there business to pass or organise an alternative.

There was a guy on the last word saying he had no option but to break the law as he had no other way of getting to work. He thought it was a ludicrous suggestion that he would cycle the 3 miles !!!!!!

[KevB76]

Compared to systems in much more populous countries where you're almost guaranteed a license within a few weeks......

Do you mean guaranteed a test ?
I wouldnt have much confidence in a system where anyone could walk away with a licence within a few weeks :eek:
Where is this more poulous country - India perhaps :D

The national average wait for a test here is down to 7.5 weeks.
I know several people who have applied for and taken (and passed) thir test since this deadline was announced - also I know several people who would have no intention of getting around to taking a test anytime soon without having their hand forced.