Italy

[jmurphyc]

Zlat
Trezeguet
Del Piero
Toni
Villa
Torres
Van Nistellroy
Drogba
Eto'o
Totti

Those are who I would regard the top tier strikers of the game at the moment, who's better than who on that list is down to conjecture, but I certainly wouldn't take an outsider ahead of any of those. Each of them have had magnificent records in the past two seasons so I would think it rather ignorant for any soccer fan to claim they "don't rate" any of these on the above list.

I won't go into a long argument about this but making lists like this and saying that nobody else is better than any of those is very subjective and a bit stupid. You could make cases for Adebayor, Benzema, Berbatov, Keane, Raul, Henry, Rooney, Tevez, Mario Gomez, Arshavin, and of course Aguero who is meant to be one of the best young players on the planet. I'm sure there are a good few more who could be placed above some of those on the list. Also, would Villa have made it onto your list this time yesterday?

Anyway, how this is relevant to Ireland I don't know (or Italy for that matter).

[back of the net]

I won't go into a long argument about this but making lists like this and saying that nobody else is better than any of those is very subjective and a bit stupid. You could make cases for Adebayor, Benzema, Berbatov, Keane, Raul, Henry, Rooney, Tevez, Mario Gomez, Arshavin, and of course Aguero who is meant to be one of the best young players on the planet. I'm sure there are a good few more who could be placed above some of those on the list. Also, would Villa have made it onto your list this time yesterday?

Anyway, how this is relevant to Ireland I don't know (or Italy for that matter).

good post jmurphy - would agree with it all bar 2 things

1) villa would have defo been on the list prior to y'days performance

2)i wouldnt call someone saying someone else is better a bit stupid - every1 views the game in their own way and hence why we all have different opinions - hence the reason for the foot.ie board - cant have a debate if we all had the same opinions on players

as for aguero - potential , so they say - havent seen him , but if were including potential into the list - then ,huntelaar has to be in

but its all a matter of opinion - but good post mate

[redobit]

I feel the italians can still come good. Gona put a sneaky fiver on a Holland V Itlay final as they will be kept apart from now on.

[cavan_fan]

I feel the italians can still come good. Gona put a sneaky fiver on a Holland V Itlay final as they will be kept apart from now on.

I'll give you a million to one. (Check the draw)

[lionelhutz]

Torres
Villa
Berbetov
Drogba
Eto
podolski
Henry
Karim Benzema
Lesandro Lopez
Van Nistelrooy

To be honest lads, i can't believe Ronaldo isn't included in yer lists. He's not really a winger - as mentioned in another thread he plays in the same position as Henry. He's an excellent striker - even if he is a complete t***er.

Would never include Podolski either - don't rate him at all. I'd include Tevez also in the worlds top strikers list.

[back of the net]

To be honest lads, i can't believe Ronaldo isn't included in yer lists. He's not really a winger - as mentioned in another thread he plays in the same position as Henry. He's an excellent striker - even if he is a complete t***er.

Would never include Podolski either - don't rate him at all. I'd include Tevez also in the worlds top strikers list.

agree with u on tevez - but thats why i said i could mention many more top strikers -there is loads of class strikers out there


BUT...... ronaldo ....... no way mate ...... he is good but not great

watching him be very average in european competitions(champs league) is just humerous

he is actually quite limited and very over rated

another average performance for portugal last night despite him scoring.....he does not play well against continental opposition ... he ends up getting marked out of the the game

but agree... what a complete t**ser (-;

[SkStu]

agree with u on tevez - but thats why i said i could mention many more top strikers -there is loads of class strikers out there


BUT...... ronaldo ....... no way mate ...... he is good but not great

watching him be very average in european competitions(champs league) is just humerous

he is actually quite limited and very over rated

another average performance for portugal last night despite him scoring.....he does not play well against continental opposition ... he ends up getting marked out of the the game

but agree... what a complete t**ser (-;

one of the most pathetic, blinkered posts i have ever read. and im not a United (or Real :) ) fan.

he scored one, created the other two and had 2 or 3 more decent shots on target. He was a constant thorn in the side of a very good Czech team. If thats an average performance in your book then id like to see a great one. :rolleyes:

[back of the net]

one of the most pathetic, blinkered posts i have ever read. and im not a United (or Real :) ) fan.

he scored one, created the other two and had 2 or 3 more decent shots on target. He was a constant thorn in the side of a very good Czech team. If thats an average performance in your book then id like to see a great one. :rolleyes:

Skstu - i dont rate ronaldo as a great player - and also i dont rate that czech team as a VERY GOOD czech team - i think they are an average side and if we had a proper manager in place for the euro qulaifiers - then i think it would have been us playing the portugese that night , not the czechs

I think that this tournament has been one of the lowest quality european championships in years

considering the opposition the portugese faced (czech rep) - i would not call his performance a GREAT performance , when the portugese face one of the better european sides (of which the czechs are not ) or when united play a top european side , ronaldo is barely in the game

- so ,mate , equally i could call your opinion "blinkered" , but i wont cos everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to it

[stojkovic]

Just watching the great Luca Toni in action at the moment.

Absolutely shocking, Torres would have had a hat-trick.

Dunphy was wrong. He's not a poor mans Peter Crouch, he's a poor mans Tony Cascarino.

[Colbert Report]

one of the most pathetic, blinkered posts i have ever read. and im not a United (or Real :) ) fan.

he scored one, created the other two and had 2 or 3 more decent shots on target. He was a constant thorn in the side of a very good Czech team. If thats an average performance in your book then id like to see a great one. :rolleyes:

I absolutely hate Manchester United, but I watch a lot of football and for my money Cristiano Ronaldo is hands down the best player in the world at the moment. Messi is the only guy up there with him and he was injured for the second half of last season.

[SkStu]

Skstu - i dont rate ronaldo as a great player - and also i dont rate that czech team as a VERY GOOD czech team - i think they are an average side and if we had a proper manager in place for the euro qulaifiers - then i think it would have been us playing the portugese that night , not the czechs

I think that this tournament has been one of the lowest quality european championships in years

considering the opposition the portugese faced (czech rep) - i would not call his performance a GREAT performance , when the portugese face one of the better european sides (of which the czechs are not ) or when united play a top european side , ronaldo is barely in the game

- so ,mate , equally i could call your opinion "blinkered" , but i wont cos everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to it

regarding Ronaldo, your point is just not correct. He scored a hatful of goals in the CL and put in some quality performances along the way right up to, and including, the final. He has scored plenty of goals for the portuguese in qualifying and in all major tournaments he has been present for.

The czechs are a very good team. Not a great team. But still very, very good. Tough opponents. For any international team.

I didnt call his performance against the Czechs "great" by the way - you said he was barely in the game. That is just wrong. As the goal AND assists AND a handful of shots on target AND a few mazy runs prove.

How can he be "average" or "limited" by any strech of the imagination? He's quality and he barely has a weakness to his game. He can score inside or outside the box and has scored some cracking headers too.

He is a joy to watch. Players like Ronaldo are the reason i became a footie fan.

[paul_oshea]

that was one of the best saves ever.

[stiofain]

that was one of the best saves ever.

T'was good alright. Awful decision by the ref in the first place, though.

[Razors left peg]

I still maintain that Italy are absoulutely nothing to be afraid of in the qualifiers

[pineapple stu]

Just watching the great Luca Toni in action at the moment.

Absolutely shocking, Torres would have had a hat-trick.
Can anyone who watches more Italian football than me tell me why he's in the squad at all?

Awful game this afternoon, ridiculous dive to try win a penalty, at least two superb opportunities where his gangliness was too much and very little else. Hope he plays come April!

[Razors left peg]

Can anyone who watches more Italian football than me tell me why he's in the squad at all?

Awful game this afternoon, ridiculous dive to try win a penalty, at least two superb opportunities where his gangliness was too much and very little else. Hope he plays come April!

Ciaran must be the man to answer that for you since he rates him as one of the 3 best strikers in the world!!

[stojkovic]

Ciaran must be the man to answer that for you since he rates him as one of the 3 best strikers in the world!!

:D:D:D

[Maroon 7]

Ciaran must be the man to answer that for you since he rates him as one of the 3 best strikers in the world!!

Maybe if all the other world's best strikers were killed in some airline disaster or something first.:D

[kev mcq]

Can anyone who watches more Italian football than me tell me why he's in the squad at all?

Awful game this afternoon, ridiculous dive to try win a penalty, at least two superb opportunities where his gangliness was too much and very little else. Hope he plays come April!
He plays in Germany, not Italy

[pineapple stu]

Saw that after wiki-ing him alright. Bloody good scoring record too!

[FarBeag]

Just watching the great Luca Toni in action at the moment.

Absolutely shocking, Torres would have had a hat-trick.

Dunphy was wrong. He's not a poor mans Peter Crouch, he's a poor mans Tony Cascarino.


Yeah, totally agree with you.I hope he is there when we play them because even McShane would do a job on him.

[stojkovic]

Previous to that he won the golden boot with Fiorentina for being the most prolific striker in Europe.

Would that be the same season that his club were found guilty of match-fixing ?


The problem I think is that Donadoni isn't using him right

And he shone in WC06 under Lippi ?


Don't judge Toni on poor tactics, he's being heavily marked

Words fail me.

[osarusan]

Would that be the same season that his club were found guilty of match-fixing ?

Do you actually think there is a solid connection between that fact and the fact that Toni scored lots of goals?

[dr_peepee]

I still maintain that Italy are absoulutely nothing to be afraid of in the qualifiers


I dunno Razor. Personally I would rather they do O.K in euro 2008. The way things are now they are at Rock bottom, and are in a position to turn it around before the play us...

[stojkovic]

Do you actually think there is a solid connection between that fact and the fact that Toni scored lots of goals?

The question has to be asked.

[jmurphyc]

They showed against Romania that they do still have quality IMO. They're just fairly poorly managed at the moment. They will still be the team to beat in the qualifiers and unless we massively improve under Trapattoni we'll have little chance of beating them.

[back of the net]

regarding Ronaldo, your point is just not correct. He scored a hatful of goals in the CL and put in some quality performances along the way right up to, and including, the final. He has scored plenty of goals for the portuguese in qualifying and in all major tournaments he has been present for.

The czechs are a very good team. Not a great team. But still very, very good. Tough opponents. For any international team.

I didnt call his performance against the Czechs "great" by the way - you said he was barely in the game. That is just wrong. As the goal AND assists AND a handful of shots on target AND a few mazy runs prove.

How can he be "average" or "limited" by any strech of the imagination? He's quality and he barely has a weakness to his game. He can score inside or outside the box and has scored some cracking headers too.
He is a joy to watch. Players like Ronaldo are the reason i became a footie fan.

i believe my point is correct - i have seen him enough times to say that he is not a great player - out of his goals in CL - how many were penos and free kicks ? - I BELIEVE , he contirbutes technically very little to uniteds european cause , and they would be well off getting rid of him for the completely overhyped sum ofr money madrid are gonna pay for him

on top of that he is a diver and a whinger and has an extremely lazy element to his game - attributes of great player??? i dont think so

plus hw has only scored 4 goals in 3 tournaments for portugal - the rest of his goals (qualifiers and friendlies) - have come against the likes of - luxembourg, saudi arabia, kazahkstan, aremnia , poland, belgium ,azerbaijan, latvia - WOW world beaters the lot of them


the reason you became a footie fan ????

the czechs are an ordinary side , and so far in this poor quality tournament , they are being shown up for what they are - ORDINARY and when their coach karl bruckner resigns at teh end of euro 08 - he will be leaving a team in rapid decline and is getting out at the right time

but like i said everyone to their own opinion

[Razors left peg]

I dunno Razor. Personally I would rather they do O.K in euro 2008. The way things are now they are at Rock bottom, and are in a position to turn it around before the play us...

they arent a terrible side by any means, I just think that they are ordinary enough.When I say that they are nothing to be afraid of, I mean that if we get ourselves properly organised, get a belief in the squad and of course have a bit of luck with injuries I believe we can beat them.Dont forget that a very average Scotland team ran them very close just because the Scots were well organised under a good manager.This is an Italian team that is past its best and I dont go along with the view that some people on here have that there are some outstanding young players coming through for them.They might have a couple of good players to come into the squad but they are far from a golden generation. If these young players are top quality many would be in this squad now forcing out some of the players that are past their best.I have no doubt that in a few years time Italy will become a top team again but these things sometimes go in cycles and I believe that we are getting them at a time when they are weaker than usual

[Razors left peg]

Italy beat Scotland home and away, how exactly is that Scotland running them "close"?

Look at how the group worked out, Scotland were very close until the last couple of games.And if you watched the game in Scotland you would have seen it was a very tight game that Scotland could easily have won on another day

[boovidge]

i out of his goals in CL - how many were penos and free kicks?

Why is a free kick goal worth less? :confused:

I'm fed up of reading people saying they "don't rate" Ronaldo on this site. Sure he's hyped too much and talked about ad nauseum (i realise the irony here). He also dives and winges like most other premiership players. However, to dismiss someone because you don't like him is really a complete bit of Dunphyesque analysis. He does the business on the pitch and has done consistently the last two seasons in one of the top leagues in Europe. Therefore he has to be considered one of the best players in the world.

As far as Italy are concerned im much less worried about them than i was before this tournament and now i genuinely believe that if Trap gets us organised we can at least nick a couple of points off of them. If they don't change their side they have severe limitations as we have seen and if they do change their side then they may not have "gelled" enough to be a top quality side. I still expect them to finish top reasonably comfortably.

[back of the net]

Why is a free kick goal worth less? :confused:

I'm fed up of reading people saying they "don't rate" Ronaldo on this site. Sure he's hyped too much and talked about ad nauseum (i realise the irony here). He also dives and winges like most other premiership players. However, to dismiss someone because you don't like him is really a complete bit of Dunphyesque analysis. He does the business on the pitch and has done consistently the last two seasons in one of the top leagues in Europe. Therefore he has to be considered one of the best players in the world.

As far as Italy are concerned im much less worried about them than i was before this tournament and now i genuinely believe that if Trap gets us organised we can at least nick a couple of points off of them. If they don't change their side they have severe limitations as we have seen and if they do change their side then they may not have "gelled" enough to be a top quality side. I still expect them to finish top reasonably comfortably.

i never said a free kick goal was worth less - i was talking in reference to ronaldos input into the team when the ball is in play NOT from dead ball set pieces.

when did i say i dismissed him because i dont like him?????? read the my post properly before you make a response - I said i dont him rate for many reasons - never once mentioned i dont rate him because i dont like him

Their are alot of ppl on this site who dont rate ronaldo in such high regard as other posters - so come to terms with it

And yes i am one of those ppl

Dunphesque analysis !!!! - i would more associate that with ppl who cant read posted comments properly and then proceed to make responses on comments that were NEVER actually made originally

anyway this site is about italy - not some greedy whingebag from portugal , so lets all move on


Personally i think we can take the italians - but we will need our best 11 fit - but any1 who dares write off the italians , is being foolish - the italians history in the euros is not as decorated as their history in the world cup - come april and october 09 - they prob will have a new team and a new manager and will be ready and waiting for our boys - its gonna be an intriguing encounter - but ive no doubt we will put it up to them

[stojkovic]

the italians history in the euros is not as decorated as their history in the world cup

Agreed, as I have also pointed this out.

[Razors left peg]

I'm as big an Ireland supporter as the next guy and I do believe we can take 2nd in our group, but claiming we can take Italy is ridiculous. Player for Player there's not a single player we'd beat them on, and sadly player for player between our first team and their reserve team they'd still beat us in every single position. At a stretch maybe Given could match Amelia though due to injuries probably not.

So to make that claim you'd need to pretty confident that we'll be a very together team with no injuries, no retirements and killer tactics. Has anyone seen anything to indicate all that?

Why is claiming we can take Italy ridiculous?? Romania finished ahead of the Dutch in their qualifying campaign and you could say the same thing that player for player the Dutch are better.Its gonna be far from easy to finish ahead of them but its not ridiculous to claim that we can

[back of the net]

I'm as big an Ireland supporter as the next guy and I do believe we can take 2nd in our group, but claiming we can take Italy is ridiculous. Player for Player there's not a single player we'd beat them on, and sadly player for player between our first team and their reserve team they'd still beat us in every single position. At a stretch maybe Given could match Amelia though due to injuries probably not.

So to make that claim you'd need to pretty confident that we'll be a very together team with no injuries, no retirements and killer tactics. Has anyone seen anything to indicate all that?
i said- IF WE HAVE OUR BEST 11 FIT

also as razor said - romania finished ahead of holland

also croatia finished ahead of england,
poland finished aheadd of portugal,
greece finished ahead of turkey

Look How close northern ireland pushed spain and sweden
up until the last 2 games it looked like SCOTLAND WERE GONNA FINISH AHEAD OF ITALY
So i think that puts your " Player for Player" argument out the window

also we have one of the decorated managers in the game - more decorated than the respective managers of croatia , poland , scotland , greece and the north have/had for their qualifiers

Add in we have a squad made up mainly of Premier league players

Thats how i can say we will put it up to italy ciaran

[Dodge]

also we have one of the decorated managers in the game - more decorated than the respective managers of croatia , poland , scotland , greece and the north have/had for their qualifiers

In the last ten years he's won a Portuguese and an Austrian League title. his record at international level is among the worst in Italian history. His record with Juventus 20 years ago is exceptional, but how nuch of that was down to him?

IN the last ten years Poland's Beenkaker has qualified Trinidad for their forst ever world cup, qualified Poland for their first ever Euros, won the dutch league with Feyernoord and Ajax. Greece's Rehaggel was won the German league with Kaiserslauten and the fecking European Championship with Greece.

I also think you're underestimating the playing ability of the players from Croatia, Poland and Greece

[cavan_fan]

I'm as big an Ireland supporter as the next guy and I do believe we can take 2nd in our group, but claiming we can take Italy is ridiculous. Player for Player there's not a single player we'd beat them on, and sadly player for player between our first team and their reserve team they'd still beat us in every single position. At a stretch maybe Given could match Amelia though due to injuries probably not.

So to make that claim you'd need to pretty confident that we'll be a very together team with no injuries, no retirements and killer tactics. Has anyone seen anything to indicate all that?

I'd have Dunne over Materazzi any day and Keane over Di Natale/Del Piero whoever they have alongside the lanky useless guy.

[Irish Magpie]

i'd have alan lee ahead of luca toni :)

[NeilMcD]

You using Domenech's judgement as reason for Trezeguet's lack of worth is all I need to mention to dispell your opinion's worth. Trez was 2nd top scorer in Serie A this season, and he generally is most seasons. He's not there because he doesn't get on with Domenech, supposedly he slept with his wife. :D
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=3428832&type=story

Must be some wife as she was rumoured to be with Pires and Giuly before that a few years ago.

[stojkovic]

Must be some wife as she was rumoured to be with Pires and Giuly before that a few years ago.

Do we have a picture of the beast ?

[back of the net]

Do we have a picture of the beast ?

Gents,


http://www.ledio.globolog.com.br/estelle.jpg

[irishultra]

I'm as big an Ireland supporter as the next guy and I do believe we can take 2nd in our group, but claiming we can take Italy is ridiculous. Player for Player there's not a single player we'd beat them on, and sadly player for player between our first team and their reserve team they'd still beat us in every single position. At a stretch maybe Given could match Amelia though due to injuries probably not.

So to make that claim you'd need to pretty confident that we'll be a very together team with no injuries, no retirements and killer tactics. Has anyone seen anything to indicate all that?

That is a bit of a stupid post.

If football followed your logic Greece wouldn't have won Euro 2004. Romania wouldn't qualify out of the 'group of death'....Germany would hammer Croatia.....Portugal wouldn't struggle at home against teams like Finland.

Paraguay wouldn't beat Brazil. Ecuador wouldn't get a result against Argentina.

Porto wouldn't win the Champions League. Villarreal wouldn't finish second in La Liga. Valencia would finish top 6.


Obviously because their Italians you will rate them higher than Irish players.

Duff I firmly believe would. McGeady might. Dunne might(better than Barzagli), Keane without a doubt. Given....YES.

So I believe we have three/four players that could make their squad, and maby two who could potentially start. But even if we didn't have any, it means nothing.

[back of the net]

That is a bit of a stupid post.

If football followed your logic Greece wouldn't have won Euro 2004. Romania wouldn't qualify out of the 'group of death'....Germany would hammer Croatia.....Portugal wouldn't struggle at home against teams like Finland.

Paraguay wouldn't beat Brazil. Ecuador wouldn't get a result against Argentina.

Porto wouldn't win the Champions League. Villarreal wouldn't finish second in La Liga. Valencia would finish top 6.


Obviously because their Italians you will rate them higher than Irish players.

Duff I firmly believe would. McGeady might. Dunne might(better than Barzagli), Keane without a doubt. Given....YES.

So I believe we have three/four players that could make their team. But even if we didn't have any, it means nothing.

could not have said it better myself irishultra - good post

[shakermaker1982]

Gents,


http://www.ledio.globolog.com.br/estelle.jpg

Not bad,

He didn't see that in the stars :D

[cavan_fan]

He was the best player on the pitch in the first half and scored a perfectly legit goal. I'm shocked you thought he had a bad game, even Dunphy ate humble pie about him at half-time. :eek:

He's in the team because he's the greatest target man in the world and has a sensational record. This season, 31 games for Bayern - 24 goals. Previous to that he won the golden boot with Fiorentina for being the most prolific striker in Europe.

The problem I think is that Donadoni isn't using him right, Italy tend to like to play with a lone striker while Toni would certainly benefit with more space. At Bayern he partners Klose and at any given time would have no more than one defender around him, he's just inviting too much attention in the box for Italy, watch his movement when he crosses are coming in, there's at least 2 defenders on him at any time. Italy's gameplan is too obvious.

When you have a midfield of Pirlo, De Rossi, Ambrosini, Gattuso or any of those opposition know that you're not going to carry a threat down the centre and it's obvious that the team is going to centre around Toni and wingers. Don't judge Toni on poor tactics, he's being heavily marked and DID score a perfectly good goal yesterday that shouldn't have been disallowed.

he's talking about luca toni here (not Pele as you might have thought), I hope you're watching ciaran because even Gary Doherty would hvae scored one of the six chances toni has had tonight.

[back of the net]

he's talking about luca toni here (not Pele as you might have thought), I hope you're watching ciaran because even Gary Doherty would hvae scored one of the six chances toni has had tonight.

toni is limited - some of the chances he has missed -

bundesliga defending is not shown in a positive light if this clown can score over 30 goals in it

[cavan_fan]

toni is limited - some of the chances he has missed -

bundesliga defending is not shown in a positive light if this clown can score over 30 goals in it

It gets better because gomez was the 2nd top scorer in germany last year and he is the tony cascarino to luca toni's niall quinn

[carloz]

A bit of me is very unhappy at the moment because i bet on Romania each way before they start of the tournament, but i feel Italy getting out of the group can be beneficial to Ireland in the world cup qualifiers. i dont rate Donadoni too highly so him keeping his job would be good for us

[stojkovic]

It gets better because gomez was the 2nd top scorer in germany last year and he is the tony cascarino to luca toni's niall quinn

Its a similar situation in Serie A with Trezequet and Ibrahimovic over the last couple of years. This is what Ive been saying, stockings the three of them. First ive seen of Gomez so I'll give him a break, for now.

[macdermesser]

Its a similar situation in Serie A with Trezequet and Ibrahimovic over the last couple of years. This is what Ive been saying, stockings the three of them. First ive seen of Gomez so I'll give him a break, for now.

played at Croker against us .. but will forgive you as it was a dire game

[Dr. Ogba]

A bit of me is very unhappy at the moment because i bet on Romania each way before they start of the tournament, but i feel Italy getting out of the group can be beneficial to Ireland in the world cup qualifiers. i dont rate Donadoni too highly so him keeping his job would be good for us

yeah i was thinking the same thing. there was some rumour going around that Lippi would return to replace Donadoni which would have been bad news for us....

don't think Donadoni's up to too much either...