Are we any good?

[Kingdom]

It wont happen as long as the big DDSL clubs run football in this country.

Now you've hit the nail on the head. There is no structure, these clubs (the Belvo's, Stella, Home Farm, Joeys) all should have teams in the A championship and Eircom League. They develop players then whore them across the water. Its disgusting.
I've known kids travelling from Kerry, Cork, Wexford, Offaly all to play for DDSL teams, some of the further ones travelling 3 times a week! How can that be good for what is essentially a child?

[Kingdom]

Israel away we dominated ?, my recollection is we went 1-0 up after about 6 min and done absolutley nothing else until Israel deservedly equalised in the last minute. (It was the minumim they deserved). We then promptly went up the other end and I think Duff hit the post. To compound it Kerr then said we were unluckly :mad: we were a lot of things that night but were werent unlucky.

Agree with the rest of the post.

My recollection is that we scored, played some great football (possession football actually - something we haven't shown since) but didn't commit players forward, and conceded a poxy goal 5 mins from the end.
You are right though, our next meaningful attack led to a post.
We were the one team Israel didn't give the runaround to in that group.

[mark12345]

Both points are good ones.

One good thing Kerr did was spread the selection process of youngsters (playing as underage internationals) across the country. It's continued on a bit, but not enough. As Stojkovic says there are lads travelling long distances three times a week. What we need is more and bigger junior clubs in the provinces.

As far as farming youngsters out to England - it's been a graveyard for Irish talent for many years. Sre some make it but too many don't. I saw too many young lads in Dublin in the eighties who were super technicians with the ball, but were ruined as players because of the speed and high ball game which is English football. And because you don't make it there you're deemed a failure.

Wish our young lads would head to places like France and Holland, Germany etc.

[Greenforever]

Israel away we dominated ?, my recollection is we went 1-0 up after about 6 min and done absolutley nothing else until Israel deservedly equalised in the last minute. (It was the minumim they deserved). We then promptly went up the other end and I think Duff hit the post. To compound it Kerr then said we were unluckly :mad: we were a lot of things that night but were werent unlucky.

Agree with the rest of the post.


My recollection is we scored early, then played possesion football as if we were playing out the game for the last 80 minutes, I remember a lot of people around me in the crowd saying we were going to be caught out as the game entered the last 20 mins or so, and unfortunately were right. The Israellis were there for the taking that night, but we didnt push forward until they got the equaliser.

[Greenforever]

As Stojkovic says there are lads travelling long distances three times a week. What we need is more and bigger junior clubs in the provinces.



Wish our young lads would head to places like France and Holland, Germany etc.


As i've posted on other threads we need a major reorganisation of football in this country but don't have th e guts to do it.

The EL will never prosper in it's current format simply because we have too many clubs with too small a catchment area. Clubs realistically need probably a million people in their catchment area to develop a strong fan base, certainly no less than half a million.

Filtering the whole way down to junior level we need the likes of Joeys, Belvo, Cherry Orchard to be the minimum standard for clubs.

Clubs should be licensed with a requirement for a minimum of 2 teams at each underage level up to say U15 and then one at each age level till out of schoolboys and a minimum of an U21 and 2 senior teams. Clubs of this size can provide better facilities and generate better fundraising etc.

New clubs shoul have to produce a business plan to show there is a need for a new club in the area.

The FAI should grant aid amalagamtions of smaller clubs to acheive this, and actively promote it.

You wont find many one or two team clubs in GAA or Rugby.

They should also encourage a reduction in Dublin Clubs by way of amalgamation. This of course will be unacceptable to the fans of the clubs, but the reality is the clubs do not have enough fans to survive and the only way to increase the fan base is to be succesful and qualify for the champions league group stages.

Munster Rugby is the perfect role model, No 1 club in Europe, and while the game is only big in Britain and Franc it still is an achievement to be admired.

[youngirish]

To have any chance of having any semblence of a competitive domestic league the most important thing I believe we need to do is to merge the leagues both North and South of the Border. With the combined population of over 6 million people and with the increase in the number of relatively large urban areas we should be able to maintain a decent standard of football and a higher average attendance. At present the main obstacle to having a stronger league in the Republic is simple demographics (I'm not just talking about overall numbers the relatively low levels of urbanisation in our population is perhaps our biggest problem).

I'm not campaigning for the International teams to be merged just to make things clear before EG encounters this thread but a stronger domestic league would help both International teams on both sides of the border.

[paul_oshea]

its easy to say, lads should go to france, germany and wherever, but its not a simple case of donkey-tailing on google maps their next destination there has to be links established with the clubs. I said a couple of years ago or so to strengthen the EL why didnt clubs look to establish with some clubs in central and/or south america, for example, where players could play for a year on loan or whatever in the league, it would probably strenghten the league in terms of quality and the players themselves wouldn't have to be paid anymore than their home country(loads more benefits, just examples, plus tapping into extra supporters those from the players originating country whose first sport is soccer, plus irish people are more likely to go watch a south american for example, than they are an irish fella beleive it or not!)), and I say the same again in relation to young players here, clubs should try to establish links with continental clubs and both can benefit, EL clubs could get younger players out on loan for a season or two like united do in belgium etc and could also look to move on their players to the continent if the right price came in for them.

[seanfhear]

To have any chance of having any semblence of a competitive domestic league the most thing I believe we need to do is to merge the leagues both North and South of the Border. With the combined population of over 6 million people and with the increase in the number of relatively large urban areas we should be able to maintain a decent standard of football and a higher average attendance. At present the main obstacle to having a stronger league in the Republic is simple demographics (I'm not just talking about overall numbers the relatively low levels of urbanisation in our population is perhaps our biggest problem).

I'm not campaigning for the International teams to be merged just to make things clear before EG encounters this thread but a atronger domestic league would help both International teams on both sides of the border.
It is blindingly obvious that you are right but things that are blindingly obvious can take a long time in this country north and south.Witness Good friday agreement[sunningdale for slow learners,quote from sheamass mallon]

[Gather round]

To have any chance of having any semblence of a competitive domestic league the most thing I believe we need to do is to merge the leagues both North and South of the Border

From your point of view (as clearly the stronger league), why merge with the weaker? How much stronger would it make the merged league? Not very, I guess. How stronger would Linfield be? Arguably not at all. They wouldn't be the clear favorite every season. And- unlike other notional moves across leagues, say the Old Firm to England, they wouldn't have the carrot of much greater income from TV.



With the combined population of over 6 million people and with the increase in the number of relatively large urban areas we should be able to maintain a decent standard of football and a higher average attendance

You'd be adding one large urban area (500,000+?) for a total of two. It's still only marginal. There are more fundamental reasons why the LoI is weaker than those in similarly sized countries (Croatia, Denmark, Norway?).


At present the main obstacle to having a stronger league in the Republic is simple demographics (I'm not just talking about overall numbers the relatively low levels of urbanisation in our population is perhaps our biggest problem)

How does this compare- with the countries above, say? 2 million of 6 million odd people in Ireland live in suburban Dublin and Belfast. Is that so different from 1.5 million of 4 million?


I'm not campaigning for the International teams to be merged just to make things clear before EG encounters this thread but a atronger domestic league would help both International teams on both sides of the border

That's a relief :)

Of the IL regulars on here, I think Not Brazil is the biggest fan of an all-Ireland league.

[seanfhear]

From your point of view (as clearly the stronger league), why merge with the weaker? How much stronger would it make the merged league? Not very, I guess. How stronger would Linfield be? Arguably not at all. They wouldn't be the clear favorite every season. And- unlike other notional moves across leagues, say the Old Firm to England, they wouldn't have the carrot of much greater income from TV.

If the old firm were transfered to the the championship or first division in england they would create quite a stir.On a smaller scale if linfield and glentoran merged with the bigger clubs in the south it would create an attractive product for fans and tv companies.All clubs would have to improve.By meeting this challenge standards would be forced upwards

[youngirish]

In answer to your questions Gather_round.



You'd be adding one large urban area (500,000+?) for a total of two. It's still only marginal. There are more fundamental reasons why the LoI is weaker than those in similarly sized countries (Croatia, Denmark, Norway?).



Yes I agree with you that Ireland as a whole has really only three cities of any reasonable size (I'd throw in the Cork urban area also) but it doesn't take a city of over 500 thousand people to support a football team. Both NI and the Republic have a similar number of towns of over 25 thousand people (about 11 or 12 each by my count) which should be enough to support a club in an all Ireland league. Obvously bigger towns and cities can support more than one team so we could eventually end up having a large number of competitve teams spread around on both sides of the border. I agree that demographics is not the only probelm but to provide the financial support teams require to be competitve you need a decent sized urban area with a sizeable fan base. Rural areas cannot support large football clubs that are going to be competitive in Europe.


How does this compare- with the countries above, say? 2 million of 6 million odd people in Ireland live in suburban Dublin and Belfast. Is that so different from 1.5 million of 4 million?

The number of decent sized towns or cities is more important as mentioned above and this could be effectively doubled by any such merger.


From your point of view (as clearly the stronger league), why merge with the weaker? How much stronger would it make the merged league? Not very, I guess. How stronger would Linfield be? Arguably not at all. They wouldn't be the clear favorite every season. And- unlike other notional moves across leagues, say the Old Firm to England, they wouldn't have the carrot of much greater income from TV.

Initially Linfield may not be much stronger but surely a more competitive league that's better supported would in the long run ensure the bigger clubs like Linfield would reap the benefits over time. Other than the number of titles in the record books I don't see how being the dominant force every year in a league can be beneficial to any team.

As for TV money then I'd say it's a safe guess that all the clubs involved in such a merger would receive more income from TV coverage due to the extra interest any such merger would generate. Attendences I'm sure would also initally rise. It would be up to the clubs and the associations to ensure that this initial interest would be built upon.

Anyway as I said this is not the only problem and it is possible to have two separate leagues competing at a better level than currently is the case. Unfortunately I do believe the demographics in Ireland are a major obstacle.

Anyway it's all pie in the sky stuff at present though but who knows what may happen in the future with the Setanta cup now being a reality anything is possible.

[SkStu]

If the old firm were transfered to the the championship or first division in england they would create quite a stir.On a smaller scale if linfield and glentoran merged with the bigger clubs in the south it would create an attractive product for fans and tv companies.All clubs would have to improve.By meeting this challenge standards would be forced upwards

i have to say i agree with Gather Round more so than this point. If the leagues merged I think that, while attendances might rise temprorarily, after that i think we are really kidding ourselves into giving far too much credit to the armchair fan who only occasionally will drag himself off his arse for an international in Croker. There are also those who totally dismiss the Eircom League, deny its existence even, in favour of the more commercial and satisfying support of a premiership team. These are people who will never follow a local team unless success (in terms of Europe) is guaranteed.

It boils down to the Govt., the FAI and the clubs (league and junior) coming together and setting out a plan for the future in terms of all aspects of the league - from financing and grants to how the clubs are run. The sports minister should also be involved heavily and the Govt. should examine all available opportunities to help the countries football clubs.

At the moment, the FAI is doing a bit (credit where its due) but the clubs are really left to their own devices in a lot of respects. Its just not working, attendances are not increasing in any significant way, in a lot of cases they have decreased.

One thing is for certain, and i mean no offence here, because of the nature of the average Irish football fan (lazy and uninterested), the league wont thrive until it is already self sustainable and relatively successful.

Once the league is successful, it becomes a cycle and the offshoots of this success will be bigger pool of players, bigger pool of better players, the best players having more options on where to play, better performances by the national team and regular qualification for the international team.

Its pretty exciting if it can be pulled off.

[irishultra]

The Eircom League could never get enough interest unless a multi billionaire came in and gave clubs a lot of money to bring in players from like Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Africa.

Even still, sometimes I'm convinced people wouldn't go watch an EL game even if Zidane and Maradona were on the damn pitch.