Keiren Westwood G Crewe Alexandra b.1984

[paul_oshea]

And that M'Lord is all the evidence we need :D

[DannyInvincible]

And that M'Lord is all the evidence we need :D

Well, that and his Catholicism, of course!

[OwlsFan]

I don't doubt his commitment to Ireland. I doubt his commitment to being No. 3 (sometimes 4) on the Irish team to what he and many of the rest of us perceive are inferior players. I have to be honest and confess I noticed this in a kick around before an Irish game when the keepers came out. Westwood was totally disinterested and he just messed around - can't remember which game but for obvious biased reasons I was keeping an eye on him and thought his behaviour strange. I can understand it but not condone it (I sound like the Hibs' manager last Saturday). The fate of a No. 3 keeper is a lonely one.

[paul_oshea]

I think thats footballers, or many sportspeople, you see it when they retire as well they don't have much interest in following their country or club to a lesser extent). I mentioned it before but I think this is a prime example of it.

Their interest is only as far(or lasts as lomg) as their own participation.

That's why I really admire and respect Robbie. And I really hope he gets a chance or two(to play) out in France, because I also think he could still nick a goal, and certainly finish a penalty.

[DeLorean]

Bonner - Issues holding Westwood back (rte.ie) (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2016/0525/790965-bonner-issues-with-management-hold-westwood-back/)

[DannyInvincible]

Packie is of the opinion that Randolph, Given and Forde will make the final squad, but it's nothing more than speculation. As far as I can make out, he has absolutely no inside info on who'll get the shout and he's very vague about these alleged "issues". Does he actually know the score? Doesn't sound like it. He's just basing his call on a hunch and even admits, "I could be totally wrong".

[DeLorean]

Oh yeah, in fairness Packie was very clear that he knew no more than ourselves. He's obviously just going by O'Neill's comments on Westwood in the past I guess. I wonder will O'Neill save Westwood or Forde the bother of joining up with the squad if they're not going to make the cut? It would seem a bit much dragging them over to basically tell them they haven't made it, and is there much point in being involved against Belarus if they haven't?

[paul_oshea]

The romantic in me, would like to see a place afforded to ...sorry. Forde is 36, and he is not our goalkeeping future, however he probably would be very happy just to be on the plane and 3rd choice, which says a lot about the man himself.

The tough decision is to bring Westwood over Forde, because he is more of our future than Fordey.

[TrapAPony]

One is a top championship goalkeeper (could yet be Premiership by the end of the week) the other is permanently benched at League 1 level & has always been an average keeper. If the criteria is re International experience then that is ridiculous too as Forde has only 5 caps more. Bringing Westwood over Forde is the most simple decision MON could make. Obvious choices are Randolph, Westwood & Given.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree unless there is some sort of personality clash within the keepers clique themselves, which I doubt there is.

[CraftyToePoke]

This would be my take also, the forward planning angle, post tournament will see us minus Given & Forde with Randolph unlikely to start the season as first choice, and we aren't excatly overburdened with other emerging options. On these grounds, Westwoods reluctance to be third choice are neither here nor there, as he will very likely be needed very soon.

[geysir]

Oh yeah, in fairness Packie was very clear that he knew no more than ourselves. He's obviously just going by O'Neill's comments on Westwood in the past I guess. I wonder will O'Neill save Westwood or Forde the bother of joining up with the squad if they're not going to make the cut? It would seem a bit much dragging them over to basically tell them they haven't made it, and is there much point in being involved against Belarus if they haven't?

I'm afraid that Packie does have the inside info on the (mentality) issues which have affected Westwood's place in the pecking order.
He was stuttering over which words to use, probably to maintain some diplomacy, but Packie sounded very definite that there were mentality issues strong enough to cast him behind Forde and Given
Packie knew enough to state that Westwood would probably look back with age and experience and prob look to change that and would need some development.

I didn't hear Packie say he didn't know more than ourselves but I heard him say that he could be totally wrong over Westwood not getting into the squad.

[DeLorean]

Yeah, my wording wasn't the best, I just meant he wasn't claiming to know anymore than the rest of us and he made it clear enough that he is only speculating. I've a feeling he's wrong though and that Westwood will get the nod over Forde, fingers crossed.

[geysir]

Packie kept saying that it was Given ahead of Westwood.
Randolph and Forde being one and two. with Shay winning the third place ahead of Westwood.

If I am true to myself (as Packie suggests you have to be)
as it stands now, Westwood is only there as cover for Shay, in case there is a medic brave and reckless enough to declare Shay unfit.

You can hope Packie is wrong, but are you being true to yourself? :)

[Charlie Darwin]

Will we be allowed call Westwood up as a replacement when Given gets injured?

[DeLorean]

You can hope Packie is wrong, but are you being true to yourself? :)

I'm holding out the hope that Martin will be true to himself in the end and realise it's plain daft to take Forde over Westwood.

I don't know how much Packie knows though, I'm hoping not a lot.

[Stuttgart88]

Where's Paul McShane when we need him to accidentally take out one of our lesser keepers in training?

[geysir]

Does the presence of Rodgers put Westwood into 5th place, the ultimate humiliation?

And for the future post Euros, Packie (the man in the know and one who's true to himself) emphatically states that Westwood will likely be in third place, trying to dislodge both Elliot and Randolph.
I would have asked Packie to give an example of what he describes as a "mentality issue". I might have had a few of those mentality issues in secondary school.

[paul_oshea]

I think you're reading way too much into it. Were those mental issues Paranoia by any chance?

[geysir]

I think you're reading way too much into it.
Why do you think that?
I don't read anything into what the mentality issues are. I listened to the interview and Packie mention Westwood's mentality issues repeatedly, I am curious to know what Packie is on about and why he thinks and agrees that they are serious enough to cast Westwood aside.
There are reasons for Westwood being relegated.

If I am giving too much weight to what Packie is saying then Westwood will surely be included in the Euro squad regardless of Forde and Shay's fitness levels.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Packie is using "mentality" as a catch all phrase meaning "anything but playing ability". Westwood is our best keeper but is not our number one because of other reasons.

[DeLorean]

I really don't think Packie knows any more than the rest of us, he seems to be analysing the same O'Neill comments that we are. That's not to say he's wrong though, but Westwood not making the squad wouldn't prove that Packie was 'in the know', it would just prove that he read the situation correctly.

[paul_oshea]

That's how I see it too. Packie wouldn't be aware of anything the general public know. I also think O'Neill is very measured and wouldn't be letting anyone know his feelings on things or players outside of a very close circle -that circle being his trusted advisors/team.

We all feel the same about Westwood not making the squad for the said reasons regardless of what packie says or even knows.

[Stuttgart88]

Great reaction save on 33 mins

[DeLorean]

He's class.

[DannyInvincible]

He's been very good for the first half. A few great saves.

[DannyInvincible]

Has had another great save in this half.

Being described by the Sky commentators as the "man of the moment" and the "solitary reason Sheffield Wednesday are still in this".

[DeLorean]

Westwood deserved better, Wednesday didn't. Could have done with a bit of McGeady magic. :)

[DeLorean]

"The goalkeeper for them made some unbelievable, world class saves to keep them in the game". - Michael Dawson.

[DannyInvincible]

Westwood looked devastated at the end. He got a touch to the ball for their goal, but it was a great finish. Hard to fault him really; doubt many keepers would have stopped it. He had a great game despite the loss. Unlucky for him.

If he was to start against Belarus (I really hope he does) and was to pull off some similar saves, you'd hope it'd sway O'Neill. He'll save us a few goals at the finals if he plays; no doubt about that.

[Stuttgart88]

I actually think he mistimed his dive, took off half a step or a split second too early. Harsh but true.

[DeLorean]

Jeez I don't know Stutts, there was something that looked slightly odd about it so I did question it a little in my mind. But looking at a few replays I thought he was at his highest point when he got the touch on it so I'm not sure how the mistiming thing works, is it that he was there was a bit of hanging time or something which meant he couldn't get a stronger hand on it, or something? I'm pretty harsh usually when it comes to stuff like this but it just looked an incredibly difficult one to keep out, with the power and flight. The commentator said that he didn't think any keeper in the world would save it, but they often say that.

[Stuttgart88]

I actually think he was on the way down when he touched it. Marginal but so many things are.

I wonder was the devastation partly becaude he knows himself it was saveable.

The front on angle showed it wasn't the width that beat him, it was well inside the post.

[DeLorean]

Yeah I think the flight was a killer more than anything but must take another look. I think a goalkeeper of his quality will question everything to be honest, especially when he gets a hand on something, but he was going to be devastation regardless I guess. It's a pity as Wednesday seem a great fit for him, but he should be in the PL. He's better than a lot of keepers that are.

[DannyInvincible]

Here it is again, although just from the standard angle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VqkDmcOBHU

[TrapAPony]

It's a pity as Wednesday seem a great fit for him, but he should be in the PL. He's better than a lot of keepers that are.

....but he won't be good enough to dislodge David Forde. Wait and see.:rolleyes:

[DeLorean]

Here it is again, although just from the standard angle

More angles here. (https://youtu.be/6K7hhEbWtss) I don't think Westwood is on the way down when he touches it. Stutts has gone bonkers I feel, and to think he's saying we should just accept it was a good cross for Duffy and Randolph's errors. :)

[OwlsFan]

The 16 year wait continues. Thankfully I have the Euros to look forward to. Hull could barely fill 2 thirds of their end. Not a Premiership club but the team deserved to win. Thought it would be one of those days when the better teams misses the chances and the other team sneaks it.

I see O'Neill was at the game. Possibly he booked to go when he thought McGeady and Meyler would have an influential role to play. When pressed on Westwood he said "There are a number of things you make calls on. There is no point on me elaborating on that".

Read in to that as you will.

[DeLorean]

Hard luck OF.

[DeLorean]

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/28/sheffield-wednesday-premier-league-carlos-carvalhal) banging the same drum.


By the interval they (Hull) really should have been in front, only to be denied by Wednesday’s brilliant goalkeeper, Keiren Westwood.

He, along with many of his team-mates, dropped to the ground at full-time, inconsolable and pondering what might have been. When Wednesday take time to reflect, though, this will have been a season where far more positives than negatives can be extracted.

The goalkeeper will link up with the Republic of Ireland on Monday morning and, while there have been murmurs over whether he deserves to be in the squad, he provided sufficient evidence here to suggest he should actually start instead of West Ham’s second-choice Darren Randolph. He produced several outstanding stops to deny Abel Hernández, Tom Huddlestone, Ahmed Elmohamady and, before the goal, Diamé.

[Stuttgart88]

Ok, maybe he wasn't on the way down but I still think his dive was wrong for the flight of the ball, or mistimed. Maybe his starting position was a touch too far to the right. I haven't looked at the multiple replays (nor have I seen Holland's goal since Friday!). It reminded me a bit like Shay's effort to keep out Henry's curler in Dublin in 2005. Picturesque shot, flying keeper...and just when you expect a tip over, it's a goal. Shay used the wrong hand I think but there was a degree of similarity.

Anyway, Paul Rowan very clear on things this morning. I can't recall the quotes but he clearly labelled Westwood as being ambivalent towards playing international football. He then very much laboured the point that it's an all for one, one for all spirit and everyone is very committed. O'Neill's quotes did nothing to correct Rowan's view which may only be speculative. I may actually be meeting Paul this week so will ask him!

I'll discuss the rest of Rowan's article in the squad thread.

[geysir]

I really don't think Packie knows any more than the rest of us, he seems to be analysing the same O'Neill comments that we are. That's not to say he's wrong though, but Westwood not making the squad wouldn't prove that Packie was 'in the know', it would just prove that he read the situation correctly.
I'm going by the language Packie uses, everything he says relating to Westwood and how Packie expresses it. Lines similar in meaning to 'in time Westwood will reflect and he has to develop, mature in time with age'. It all adds up to that it's blatantly obvious Packie has inside info, it's the overwhelming simple explanation for what he said. Also he is in the position to receive that info and Irish goalkeeping is his thing.
Same as Paul Rowan possibly who is saying the same thing as Packie, but says it differently. Do you think Paul Rowan picked that up reading O'Neill quote.

Westwood not being selected means some conduct/mentality/attitude situation, something much more important than ability interfered.
There is nothing in an O''Neill quote that says anything except the bit where he alluded that Westwood could not be relied upon.

[DeLorean]

I don't know what Packie knows but I don't think it's blatantly obvious that he has inside info. The fact that he said he could be completely wrong could suggest it's blatantly obvious he doesn't. In short, I think it's clear as mud as to whether he does or doesn't.

I haven't read the Sunday Times, only what Stutts has relayed above. And Stutts himself isn't sure if Rowan's being speculative or not so obviously I haven't much hope. Is Rowan usually on the money or something?

Westwood's interview (http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/sport/sheffield-wednesday/sheffield-wednesday-no-hard-feelings-insists-westwood-1-7631871) not so long ago seemed to really promote that "all for one, one for all spirit". Other than pulling out of a few squads I'm not sure what else they could have on him. He started for us as recently as last summer, is it only since then that his attitude/commitment/reliability has deteriorated? He's been in squad after squad for years without being our number one and there never seemed to be any fuss. And it's not as if he's a had a clean run of injuries at club level, he's miss a lot over the years.

[ifk101]

If you are behind somebody in the pecking order abiding your time and that person subsequently retires only to come back and push you back down the pecking order again, wouldn't you feel somewhat aggrieved? Especially when your case to be ahead in the pecking order is much stronger?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

My first impression was that he was badly positioned for the goal.

#I'mWithStutts

[Stuttgart88]

Always glad to have support!

Steven Reid picked his squad in the Indo. He also emphasises the "good attitude around the camp" thing and discusses Westwood in this context. No inside track, but he's another who suggests there are doubts over his withdrawals. Interestingly he opts for Quinn for his selflessness and drops Christie because Meyler can cover.

[paul_oshea]

More angles here. (https://youtu.be/6K7hhEbWtss) I don't think Westwood is on the way down when he touches it. Stutts has gone bonkers I feel, and to think he's saying we should just accept it was a good cross for Duffy and Randolph's errors. :)

He is definitely not on his way down. look at his movement just after the ball is hit you will see that. I'm just waiting for stutts to tell us about a similar game he lost for his team where this occurred and that why he is so convinced. The devastation was just the same and for the reasons that knowing deep down he could have saved it and felt responsible.

[paul_oshea]

If you look at the way his body is contorted and bending back stutts you can see it's gone past him. If he was diving "outwards" he might have been better extended but he does actually look like he is missing a few inches on it. I put that down to the pace of the ball and the fact he was actually too late/starting too far over in the place. Still he was never going to save it.

Ya Delores he must be going bonkers. Randolph all over the shop Friday night.

[OwlsFan]

If you look at the way his body is contorted and bending back stutts you can see it's gone past him. If he was diving "outwards" he might have been better extended but he does actually look like he is missing a few inches on it. I put that down to the pace of the ball and the fact he was actually too late/starting too far over in the place. Still he was never going to save it..

I wish you'd end this discussion. I keep seeing the ball flying in to the net!!

[Lionel Ritchie]

The 16 year wait continues. Thankfully I have the Euros to look forward to. Hull could barely fill 2 thirds of their end. Not a Premiership club but the team deserved to win. Thought it would be one of those days when the better teams misses the chances and the other team sneaks it.

I see O'Neill was at the game. Possibly he booked to go when he thought McGeady and Meyler would have an influential role to play. When pressed on Westwood he said "There are a number of things you make calls on. There is no point on me elaborating on that".

Read in to that as you will.

Genuinely thought Wednesday would go up. Tough on ye OF.