eL Club on the brink of going bust

[Rocky77]

Anthony McMullen!. McAnthony is the lad involved in Peterborough I think. But your point stands. Dunphy was probably bananas when he agreed that. 10k is a lot of money to pay to a club you don't really care about.

Not for me -- I'm loaded :cool:

[Longfordian]

We'll await the 'Rocky77' second stand in Flancare so!

[passerrby]

. Mismanagement and pointlessness.

If ever their was two words that best summed up dublin city then you have found them

[Rocky77]

I was thinking more in the line of a statue of myself on the car park!

[pete]

Not to belittle your plight but sounds like Waterfords budget was done on the back of a beer mat. The FAI said recently no club had exceeded the 65% wage cap/percentage so what accounts are Waterford submitting?

Unless there is a large debt no reason to go out of existence. If you can't pay weekly bill then cut costs. If this means going amateur then at least your club continues,

[pineapple stu]

The FAI said recently no club had exceeded the 65% wage cap/percentage so what accounts are Waterford submitting?
You didn't seriously believe them, did you?

[Greenforever]

You didn't seriously believe them, did you?

Depends on how you interperet the cap

65% should really include all players, coaches, phisios etc, etc.

i reckon certain clubs are only including 1st team players and at that not including the whole squad of players

[A face]

Depends on how you interperet the cap

65% should really include all players, coaches, phisios etc, etc.

i reckon certain clubs are only including 1st team players and at that not including the whole squad of players

Surely it would include all players registered to play?

[Longfordian]

All player contracts are registered with the league so they'd have to include the whole squad. The 65% is applicable to all of your registered players' wages but doesn't include squad expenses.

[higgins]

The more I hear about this so called 'crisis' the more annoyed I get. Waterford seem to be crying wolf in the hope that someone puts their hand into their pocket and pays for their €7,000 a week team!

It makes the league sound like a joke when you read yet again that a club could go out of business!! There's no need for Waterford to come out with this nonsense. All clubs struggle to meet the weekly costs of running a club. When the money goes the costs are slashed and you get on with running the club. You don't come out with bad news stories that make the league look like a joke.

The facts here seem to be that Waterfords running costs are 10k a week with wages making up about 7k of this, is that correct ?
They don't have any existing debt.
Transfer window is only a month or two away.

Worst case would be you run up debts of 30 or 40k before you cut most of that 7k wage bill. With home gates and assuming you have some cash there already it may not be that much of a debt.

Why the song and dance ?

[pól-dcfc]

The more I hear about this so called 'crisis' the more annoyed I get. Waterford seem to be crying wolf in the hope that someone puts their hand into their pocket and pays for their €7,000 a week team!

It makes the league sound like a joke when you read yet again that a club could go out of business!! There's no need for Waterford to come out with this nonsense. All clubs struggle to meet the weekly costs of running a club. When the money goes the costs are slashed and you get on with running the club. You don't come out with bad news stories that make the league look like a joke.

The facts here seem to be that Waterfords running costs are 10k a week with wages making up about 7k of this, is that correct ?
They don't have any existing debt.
Transfer window is only a month or two away.

Worst case would be you run up debts of 30 or 40k before you cut most of that 7k wage bill. With home gates and assuming you have some cash there already it may not be that much of a debt.

Why the song and dance ?

Maybe if Shels had gone public early on and cut their cloth they wouldn't have dragged the name of the LoI through the mud with their terrible financial practices.

[passerrby]

have to agree with higgens if this is a stunt to try and gather financial support then it is not the way to do things

[stann]

The more I hear about this so called 'crisis' the more annoyed I get.

A lesser man might make a quip along the lines of 'now you know how we felt' here, but not me. :)

First off, though, before you get any more annoyed, be sure that you are not mistaking a thread started by a fan, no matter how well intentioned, for what the club are really trying to say. That was made quite clear in a local radio interview with two members of the MC yesterday.

The song and dance, as far as I can gather, and I don't know all the details remember, is that the story was put out in such a way as to bring it home to the local populace (not national, BTW, the appeals were only put about in the local papers, not in the club's control what happened to them after that) that it takes more than a vague goodwill and fondness towards a club to keep it going, that you have to get out and contribute.
This seems to be a Waterford trait. I run into scores of people each week who stop me and ask how the Blues are doing, how it's good to see them near the top of a division again, how they've always supported them since childhood, and it's a genuine interest and goodwill, and yet most of them haven't set foot once in the RSC in all the 14 years or whatever it is they've been there. These people, and those who have given up going out there over recent years, are who the appeals are aimed at.

The problem as it's presented is that given crowds had already dwindled in an alarming fashion, if the club are forced to trim players and effectively give up on the title race and become a permanent denizen of iniquity* then the crowds will fall away to such a level that they may as well throw their hat at it.

On the wage cap, I don't know the details, but I'd guess that you make a budget (or your accountants do at least) with all the usual bona fides at the start of the year where wages are expected to be 65% or less, and then at the end of the season your total wages paid out all season must be no more than 65% of your total income, but that they don't monitor it on a week-by-week basis, that there is fluctuation allowed, is that not so? Wouldn't anything else be impossible to police? If that's so then there is plenty of time to make sure it averages out over the season, even if it does mean slashing wage bills in the heel of the hunt.
I mean, we had three home games in the last four weeks, and now we have one in the next six. All talk of crises aside, that means our quotable income is going to be way down on last month's. Does that mean we'll have to let a load of players go for the month and re-sign them in a month's time? And again at the same point in Series 4? Course not.

* no offence ;)

[greendeiseboy]

it was on wlr billy mccarthy show,
and as for david flynn, he prob have more money then mick wallace but would rather spend it going to old trafford,
you lot have a great man in mick wallace, lucky sods.

David is actually a Chelsea supporter and goes to maybe 2 or 3 games a year - I should know - i worked with DFL for seven years and know for a fact that he contributes in no small manner to a local club (Villa) and afaik he still contributes when called upon to WUFC

He was heavily involved a few years ago but like many became dissillusioned with he set up out there

You have to remember as well that the building boom is over and while you may say that he made his money during this you have to remember that he has well over 100 staff to look after every week

I think in the current economic climate that it's going to be difficult to find anyone willing to pump money into the club

[Greenforever]

Surely it would include all players registered to play?

You would think so, but this is the FAI we are talking about.

Also if a club has say 20 professionals, it probably will have a manager, coach, physio and maybe 1 or 2 other people on the payroll which in my opinion should be part of the wage cap as they are essential to the running of the team.

Maybe the league should assume a cost per match say €x being travel costs hotel costs etc which they should be able to prove they can sustain for the season allowing for players wages etc. 35% of turnover probably wont cover this if turnover is €5k per home game.

[pól-dcfc]

Maybe if Shels had gone public early on and cut their cloth they wouldn't have dragged the name of the LoI through the mud with their terrible financial practices.

Apologies for this post. It was total WUMming brought on by dissertation deadline stress. Driving me up the bloody wall.

[A face]

Apologies for this post. It was total WUMming brought on by dissertation deadline stress. Driving me up the bloody wall.

I thought it was relevant to be honest. Its not like we cant talk about it. If it makes Prime Time then its got to be bad. If anything it should be shown to all clubs as a text book case of how not to do it, and nearly all Shels fans would agree with that too. The good times was great but they are now suffering the price.

[dcfcsteve]

Was it on WLR or BEAT? Sad news hope that the Blues get a good crowd tonight, where is David Flynn in Waterford's time of need? He is the only in Waterford that can do something i feel.


The answer to nWaterford - or iondeed any club in finnacial troube's - plight is not to become dependent upon the good-will of a single 'rich' investor.

Has the plight of the likes of Gretna taught football fans nothign...?!? :confused:

Waterford have to make their finances work : i.e. pay out less each week/year than they bring in. That is how you secure the future of a foobtall team - not begging from some sugar dady to write blank cheques, and thereby just delaying and escalating the pain for the day that he inevitably stops writing them (a la Shelbourne..).

[dcfcsteve]

Sad news if it happens. :(

On a point of information, are Waterford full-time or part-time?

And does anyone know whether they were a candidate for inclusion in Platinum's proposed 12 team All Ireland League? If so, any such collapse would be a bit embarrassing, to say the least.

1) I'm fairly certain WaterforD weren't mentioned in despatches over the IPL.

2) Why would the collapse of a club like Waterford bear any negative reflection on the Platinum proposal. Surely the only ones it would reflect badly on would be WUFC and the FAI. How can the FAI get off scot-free - even though they're the ones in charge of football there currently - whilst a third party with no involevemtn in football in Waterford get lined-up for the blame ? Oh - i forgot. It's more helpful to discredit the Platinum proposals to do it that way round...

3) Arguably the financial difficultiies of clubs like Waterford actually REINFORCE Platinum's arguements, by showing that Irish football is unfeasible in its current form.

[A face]

The answer to Waterford - or indeed any club in financial trouble's - plight is not to become dependent upon the good-will of a single 'rich' investor.

But the plea was made to the public of Waterford, not to any single would be investor. I'd regard it as a rally call to fans of United to attend games in effort to help with any difficulties at present, difficulties that most clubs experience.

[pineapple stu]

3) Arguably the financial difficultiies of clubs like Waterford actually REINFORCE Platinum's arguements, by showing that Irish football is unfeasible in its current form.
Specious reasoning. By this logic, a plan to relocate all clubs to space because "Irish football is unfeasible in its current form" has now been made stronger by Waterford's troubles.

LoL at higgins criticising Waterford. Do you know 100% of what's going on there? :rolleyes:

[A face]

Specious reasoning. By this logic, a plan to relocate all clubs to space because "Irish football is unfeasible in its current form" has now been made stronger by Waterford's troubles.

LoL at higgins criticising Waterford. Do you know 100% of what's going on there? :rolleyes:

Ha ha, Stu, i can see what you did there and i know its somehow not right :p

[pineapple stu]

Show me how, so.

You can't trump Platinum's cause based on events which have nothing to do with them. You have to look at their proposals and base views on them.

[higgins]

LoL at higgins criticising Waterford. Do you know 100% of what's going on there? :rolleyes:

Did you read my post ?

Maybe go back and do so.
If you can't be bothered then just read this bit

The more I hear about this so called 'crisis' the more annoyed I get. Waterford seem to be crying wolf in the hope that someone puts their hand into their pocket and pays for their €7,000 a week team!

I don't know 100% of whats going on which is why I started off the way i did.

No need for the smart comments Stu

[higgins]

stann, clubs are monitored through the season to make sure they are sticking to the 65% rule.

Each month clubs send in their accounts and if you're running over the 65% you get punished. If you don't take steps to rectify the situation the punishments get worse.

Maybe Waterford are already in trouble with the FAI ???

[SilkCut]

Admittedly I am a little out of touch with LOI football as I have not lived in the country for a few years, however when I lived in Longford and went to every home game and most away trips I felt that a massive oppourtunity was being missed by all clubs. The games never felt like they were a good family night out, it always seemed to be a case of just get the game on and over with as quickly as possible so we can all get back to living our lives. Clubs will pay relatively decent money to players but how many of those clubs have a full time marketing / sales / financial staff. the facilities are fairly good at most grounds, even Flancare is a good ground given the fact the population of the town is small. These facilities are vastly under used and dreadfully undersold. Put on some entertainment before the game (fireworks, local bands, cheerleaders whatever) and turn one ticket sold to dad into 1 for dad 1 for mum and 2 kids tickets etc.. Living in Melbourne where Rugby League is not a huge sport this family orientated evening idea has turned Melbourne Storm into the most powerful club in the league, similar to their football team who won the A-League a year ago. I know there is a large population but these clubs compete against Aussie rules games in the MCG each Fri, Sat and Sunday. Stop running LOI clubs as part time business' and pay some of the fantastic volunteers to go full time at their clubs and these financial problems will soon disappear.

[The Man Himself]

David is actually a Chelsea supporter and goes to maybe 2 or 3 games a year - I should know - i worked with DFL for seven years and know for a fact that he contributes in no small manner to a local club (Villa) and afaik he still contributes when called upon to WUFC


i recall going back a few years ago when flynn and his buddies chartered their own flight from waterford to manchester for a match and offered outsiders a seat on it with match ticket for 300 quid per head, now thats what you call a really funny chelsea supporter.
or maby he took up following chelsea 4 years ago just like all the other new chelsea fans when the russians came to town :rolleyes:

[greendeiseboy]

il admit myself that im a big manchester united fan aswell and go to old trafford a lot every season from waterford airport and flynn has been on a lot of the flights as well going to the same games, funny chelsea supporter.
and btw im also a season ticket holder for waterford united for over 20 years.

He's a Chelsea supporter and absolutely hates Man U. And if he's travelling to the UK they do so on their private plane. Are you sure you're not mixing him up with someone else?

And btw i was up to a few years a staunch follower of the Blues as well right back as far as 1970 up to the mid nineties but between work and kids i fell away.

[greendeiseboy]

i recall going back a few years ago when flynn and his buddies chartered their own flight from waterford to manchester for a match and offered outsiders a seat on it with match ticket for 300 quid per head, now thats what you call a really funny chelsea supporter.
or maby he took up following chelsea 4 years ago just like all the other new chelsea fans when the russians came to town :rolleyes:

He's followed Chelsea since he was a youngfella - how do i know this? - We grew up on the same street - The Folly - and his best mate was none other than on of the best goalkeepers we ever had - David Flavin - He is also a nephew of the late great Jack Fitzgerald who lived two doors up from him

But you may be right that he has been to Man U games as one of his mates is a big Man U supporter but he is definitely not!

But anyway as i've stated he does help out in a lot ways. I was actually at the Niall Quinn night with him and I know for a fact that he still buys a table at other nights as well

[pete]

Each month clubs send in their accounts and if you're running over the 65% you get punished. If you don't take steps to rectify the situation the punishments get worse.

Maybe Waterford are already in trouble with the FAI ???

The FAI also said if a club exceeds 55% they have to come in for a sit down & explain what steps they are taking to ensure don't cross the 65%. Whatever about the 65% I will be very surprised if no clubs break 55% before end of July - European Championship break will put a strain on many clubs.

[EalingGreen]

1) I'm fairly certain WaterforD weren't mentioned in despatches over the IPL.

Fair enough

2) Why would the collapse of a club like Waterford bear any negative reflection on the Platinum proposal. Surely the only ones it would reflect badly on would be WUFC and the FAI. How can the FAI get off scot-free - even though they're the ones in charge of football there currently - whilst a third party with no involevemtn in football in Waterford get lined-up for the blame ? Oh - i forgot. It's more helpful to discredit the Platinum proposals to do it that way round...

Calm down. I was merely making the point that if WUFC were one of the 12 proposed teams (due to the town's size and location & the club's history etc), then it would bode ill for their prospects as a full-time team if they are struggling to carry on on a part-time basis, that's all. That is hardly the same as absolving those responsible for WUFC's existing plight (Owners? Management? FAI?) from blame for their present problems.


3) Arguably the financial difficultiies of clubs like Waterford actually REINFORCE Platinum's arguements, by showing that Irish football is unfeasible in its current form.
Non sequitur. WUFC's present difficulties merely demonstrate the deficiencies of the present set-up. This does not "endorse" the Platinum proposals as sound, never mind demonstrate that Platinum offer a better solution than the present set-up (though conceivably they might).

[stann]

stann, clubs are monitored through the season to make sure they are sticking to the 65% rule.

Each month clubs send in their accounts and if you're running over the 65% you get punished. If you don't take steps to rectify the situation the punishments get worse.

Maybe Waterford are already in trouble with the FAI ???

Fair enough, didn't know that.
As I say I'm not privy to all the details but there has been no scuttlebutt around here about trouble with the FAI thus far. We've had two very high profile fundraisers so far this season, the Dunphy/Houghton night and the Champions League draw, both of which did very well I think, so I'd hazard a guess that they've been enough to keep the income high enough to keep everything kosher. The problem is that this money will soon be gone, there are no really big fundraisers in the offing (and that well might be dry for a while anyway), and that at the end of the day it's only bums on seats that will keep us up at the sharp end. Hence the appeal and the timing of it.

[A face]

Fair enough, didn't know that.
As I say I'm not privy to all the details but there has been no scuttlebutt around here about trouble with the FAI thus far. We've had two very high profile fundraisers so far this season, the Dunphy/Houghton night and the Champions League draw, both of which did very well I think, so I'd hazard a guess that they've been enough to keep the income high enough to keep everything kosher. The problem is that this money will soon be gone, there are no really big fundraisers in the offing (and that well might be dry for a while anyway), and that at the end of the day it's only bums on seats that will keep us up at the sharp end. Hence the appeal and the timing of it.

I think eL clubs could make a go of the Euros in June if organised properly. Its a good fund raiser opportunity at a time when theres not football being played.

[gotaroundbetter]

Fair enough

Calm down. I was merely making the point that if WUFC were one of the 12 proposed teams (due to the town's size and location & the club's history etc), then it would bode ill for their prospects as a full-time team if they are struggling to carry on on a part-time basis, that's all. That is hardly the same as absolving those responsible for WUFC's existing plight (Owners? Management? FAI?) from blame for their present problems.


Non sequitur. WUFC's present difficulties merely demonstrate the deficiencies of the present set-up. This does not "endorse" the Platinum proposals as sound, never mind demonstrate that Platinum offer a better solution than the present set-up (though conceivably they might).

Town Good God man we may have been religated from the premier,but please think of the children we're a City :D

[The Man Himself]

Town Good God man we may have been religated from the premier,but please think of the children we're a City :D

first city in ireland, may i add.

[blobbyblob]

Another poor crowd last night despite the appeals all day yesterday on the radio for support.

Trouble could be nigh with three away games now so little income for the immediate future.

i hope Im wrong

[stann]

Another poor crowd last night despite the appeals all day yesterday on the radio for support.

Trouble could be nigh with three away games now so little income for the immediate future.

i hope Im wrong

Well it wasn't helped by a load of junior league matches taking place at the same time (I have no doubt that this was a deliberate, or at least a concious decision), and I think 3 school events (grads or something) taking many of the ultras away, not to mention the Eurovision and the finale of Desperate Housewives!
Still a very poor show though, and to be honest it's now becoming apparent to all that despite all the goodwill and concern from them, and even money into draws and what not, the people of Waterford, the football fans of Waterford mind, couldn't give a flying one whether we survive or not when it comes down to it, not if they have to do anything anyway.

[holidaysong]

..and the finale of Desperate Housewives!


"Alright John, are you heading up to the RSC tonight?"

"Not tonight man, the finale of Desperate Housewives is on!"

:eek:

[stann]

No :eek: about it.
I know of one person who said pretty much exactly that. And he's often on here! :eek: :D

[thischarmingman]

No :eek: about it.
I know of one person who said pretty much exactly that. And he's often on here! :eek: :D

Name and shame!

http://movietonic.com/hollywood/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/800px-simpsons_angry_mob.png

[LeixlipRed]

That's pathetic stuff. The only excuses you can use are if you have a match yourself or a big family event. Girlfriends, tv shows, etc can always wait. Imagine missing a game to watch an episode of a TV show you could just watch on the net weeks before its even on in this country.

[noby]

Well it wasn't helped by a load of junior league matches taking place at the same time (I have no doubt that this was a deliberate, or at least a concious decision), and I think 3 school events (grads or something) taking many of the ultras away, not to mention the Eurovision and the finale of Desperate Housewives!



Hang on a sec. It also wasn't helped by the fact that it was a Tuesday night. A fact that you seem to gloss over. Midweek attendances are always going to be down, what with people's work commitments etc.

Your second paragraph is essentially, sadly, true though.

[stann]

That's pathetic stuff. The only excuses you can use are if you have a match yourself or a big family event. Girlfriends, tv shows, etc can always wait. Imagine missing a game to watch an episode of a TV show you could just watch on the net weeks before its even on in this country.

Leixlip Red in missing the :D shocker!

[stann]

Hang on a sec. It also wasn't helped by the fact that it was a Tuesday night. A fact that you seem to gloss over. Midweek attendances are always going to be down, what with people's work commitments etc.

Your second paragraph is essentially, sadly, true though.

I wasn't intending to gloss over anything, noby. I didn't say anything about Tuesday night because I thought it was self evident - of course that was the over-riding factor, but it's one that has been mentioned many times, why repeat it?
I just posted the other, less obvious and local factors (as well as the facetious ones) because forummers from outside Waterford wouldn't have been aware of them. They further depressed a figure that was already going to be well down on the typical Friday gate.

[noby]

Fair enough. Gloss over might be a bit much, but all this calling for true blues to show their real colours can't ignore the fact that a Tuesday night against Athlone is never going to be a big draw. I guess that (and the big gap to the next home gate) was the reason for the call out for fans to turn up.
I had neither a match myself or a big family event, so I guess by Leixlip's criteria I should hang my head in shame.

[LeixlipRed]

Leixlip Red in missing the :D shocker!

What can I say, it's my favourite smiley.

[LeixlipRed]

Fair enough. Gloss over might be a bit much, but all this calling for true blues to show their real colours can't ignore the fact that a Tuesday night against Athlone is never going to be a big draw. I guess that (and the big gap to the next home gate) was the reason for the call out for fans to turn up.
I had neither a match myself or a big family event, so I guess by Leixlip's criteria I should hang my head in shame.

Why weren't you there? How is Tuesday night different to a Friday? For part timers it is but for a hardcore fan it shouldn't matter.

[blobbyblob]

I myself have football commitments on four other nights this week between my own club and travelling up for the international Saturday. When you have a family these days somethings gotta give. Just happened to be WUFC this week.

I made me young lad go though....and then he got in free. Figure that one out.

[eamo1]

Money saving step apparently.read more more it on aertel,this link: http://www.rte.ie/aertel/227-01.html

[stann]

Money saving step apparently.read more more it on aertel,this link: http://www.rte.ie/aertel/227-01.html

Yeah he stepped down himself, posted on our own site (http://www.waterford-united.ie/nextpage.php?subaction=showfull&id=1211360104&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&) this morning. Don't know what to think about that to be honest.