Damien Delaney

[DeLorean]

Hopefully they will all be part of a memorable Ireland tournament but if not there will be criticism for not selecting Delaney.

The last thing Delaney needs is to be traipsing around Europe.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think his comments are that fair really, not all of them anyway. If you take him literally he's admitting other players are more deserving than him and he'd only be clogging up a space for someone like Duffy coming through. I think he said "maybe" to answering a hypothetical call up. Fair enough if he never actually demanded a start which I'd accept but reading between all the lines O'Neill, who may be old school but is certainly no idiot, saw good reason to look beyond Delaney. Given that O'Neill made his club reputation on honest grafters of centre backs just like Damo you'd have to think it's pretty clear he has reason not to pick him. Delaney gave a good politician's answer.

I respect what he has done in his club career too. I can also see if his age and his injury history mean he prioritises his lucrative club career. No judgment from me whatsoever. I just don't think it's right to make some sort of cause celebre out of his situation. We have decent CBs. CB has not been a particular weakness under O'Neill.

WBA interested in Clark according to BBC anyway!

[SkStu]

Exactly Stutts. Don't forget we had, easily, the best defensive record in the qualifying group.

Riffraff, I really don't think MON will get any stick for not selecting Delaney (especially given the circumstances), at least not from someone to whom we should be paying attention i.e. Dunphy et al.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The "traipsing around Europe" quote came from Martin O'Neill, not Delaney.

I have no problem with O'Shea, Clark & Keogh playing because they contributed to our qualifying, but equally if Delaney is willing to come back and be a part of the squad then egos should be put aside.

The fact of the matter is Delaney is the most consistent performer out of those 3 and if things go tits up in June there will be questions raised - rightly or wrongly.

Arter seems to be a shoo-in and there are positive noises about McGoldrick's inclusion, so by that token there shouldn't be a problem with including Delaney on his form - especially as he maintains he isn't looking for guarantees over playing time.

[DeLorean]

The "traipsing around Europe" quote came from Martin O'Neill, not Delaney.

I think you need to listen to the bit of audio you posted. It's one of the first things he says.


http://www.98fm.com/If-You-Need-Me-Please-Pick-Up-The-Phone--Damien-Delaney

[Closed Account]

The "traipsing around Europe" quote came from Martin O'Neill, not Delaney.


True Martin was quoted as saying it in February (http://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-republic-of-ireland-euro-2016-harry-arter-alan-judge-damien-delaney-2624303-Feb2016/). Equally we've just heard Delaney saying it in the 98fm interview. Must have been something to that effect said when they last spoke.(sounds like a Cork colloquialism to me though boy)
It's a little late in the day for this discussion. Fair play to Delaney for coming back to where he is. I'd have him in my squad, seems a sound skin. But he's not, let's move on?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Delaney's situation is a bit different to other players his age in the squad.

He was never going to get included in the squad anyways so I agree it's futile to even debate it.

[SkStu]

Look, let's not build this up into something it isn't. Jack Charlton freezing David O'Leary out of the squad for 2 years and DOL - one of the best defenders in England at the time - missing out on the euros - now that was a real issue worth questioning the manager about.

Delaney is a guy who is more or less as good or as bad as the defenders we have in the squad all things considered (incl age). He's a good defender, not a great (David O"Leary type) defender. His inclusion won't materially change our performance. He also tried to hold the manager to ransom as a condition of playing for his country and it bit him in the arse. He's still fairly ambiguous about playing for us in the finals. He's been in decent form for 2-3 years now and now that there's a tournament coming up its becoming a big issue despite him contributing zero to our campaign and it being of his own volition. This is not the case some of you are making it out to be.

Now if Westwood stays at home behind one/any of Randolph, Given or Forde - I would have a problem with that.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Well it depends on who you want to believe. Delaney and O'Neill have conflicting stories about his absence from the squad. There has also been acrimony between Delaney and Keane in the past - though Delaney insists this hasn't been an issue.

Keogh & Clark have performed admirably when called upon and Duffy looked impressive in March so it's not something I am losing sleep over.

But I definitely think Delaney warrants a squad inclusion as one of the top 5 most consistent Irish players at PL level.

And I do think this will be used as a stick to beat O'Neill with if things to tits up - by Dunphy, Sadlier or Cunningham, not me.

[Closed Account]

And I do think this will be used as a stick to beat O'Neill with if things to tits up - by Dunphy, Sadlier or Cunningham, not me.
Just gonna quote this as insurance :p

[DannyInvincible]

Well it depends on who you want to believe. Delaney and O'Neill have conflicting stories about his absence from the squad.

Isn't the reality that O'Neill said to Delaney at some point in the past that he wouldn't be in his first-choice defensive pairing, so Delaney responded that if that was the case then he didn't need to be "traipsing around Europe" (or something to that effect)? It's not quite the same thing as explicitly "demanding a starting place", so Delaney would technically be correct to say he never made demands, whilst I could also see how O'Neill might have interpreted it as such. You could argue Delaney was essentially saying, "If I'm going to accept a call-up, it's conditional upon me doing more than simply traipsing around Europe (or sitting on the bench, in other words)".

O'Neill clarified the situation here: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/sideshows-wont-distract-martin-oneill-from-serious-business-at-hand-31492439.html


"[Delaney] said that he was of an age where he did not want to travel around with the team and really not be involved with the side. I [Martin O'Neill] said, 'I cannot guarantee you that'.

"It is relatively straightforward. I didn't fall out with him. Damien did not want to go to America (in May 2014). He played the match against Turkey and didn't want to travel a couple of days later.

"He volunteered the information that he thought I was going down another route. Not at all."
O'Neill was alluding to Delaney's belief that Ireland required a coherent style of play across all levels, with the experienced centre-half adding that Giovanni Trapattoni's team had one even if it wasn't to everybody's liking.

"He asked me do I want to play a different way because I think he had played a couple of long balls or something like that," continued O'Neill.

"I said, 'not at all'. I have had some of the strongest centre-halves in my time playing at Leicester, Celtic and Aston Villa, some of them were very comfortable on the ball like Matty Elliott and some, like Bobo Balde, were not.

"You know, being able to defend first in games is very, very important. That is what I am looking for. So I do not see how Damien could pick up anything else and think I was looking for someone who could caress it all the time because that is not the case."

He added that Delaney would be considered for selection if he changed his stance.

Just looking back through the thread, but did O'Neill himself ever actually explicitly claim that Delaney had made demands or was that just the twist the media (http://www.newstalk.com/Damien-Delaney-may-be-considering-a-return-to-Irish-international-duty) put on it? I think Martin just said they had different ideas of what was wanted, no? Wasn't this what O'Neill originally said?: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/oneill-harry-kane-had-a-keen-interest-in-playing-for-ireland-31062894.html


Damien and I have had a conversation. He thought that I was looking for something (else) in a centre-half. That was not the case. So Damien has not given up. But I think Damien is coming to stage where he really wants to concentrate on playing at club level.

Is there another comment I've missed? Where's the supposed conflict in stories?

And please stop implying it's about egos, as if Martin's being thick or pig-headed about the matter. They haven't had a falling out and it's not a case of bad man-management on Martin's part, like you seem keen to imply. Delaney isn't too bothered to fight for a starting place (that's fine; he's nearing the end of his career and wants to prolong that, especially in light of his previous issues, so good luck to him) and Martin wants to select players who are/have been fully committed, willing to fight and bide their time as back-up if necessary. It's all perfectly reasonable and understandable.

[DannyInvincible]

By the way, Guardian write-up on Delaney by Dominic Fifield from before the FA Cup final: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/20/damien-delaney-crystal-palace-manchester-united-fa-cup-final

Don't think it's been posted already.

[Stuttgart88]

Personally I think Delaney could be a walking red card at a European finals. Very vulnerable to pace.

[paul_oshea]

There is another way of reading that, I find it very hard to read your posts DI, too much overload sorry :)

Martin didn't have to give assurances, correct. But Martin shouldn't be telling a player he isn't going to be his starting CB. Everyone should be treated equally, and everyone has the same chance, if that was said to me at work, then I'd be fcuked off. Words of encouragement should be everyone will get a chance, you will get a chance and its up to you to take that chance, not, you are not going to be my CB or words to that effect.

[DeLorean]

There is nothing to suggest O'Neill actually said that to him though, is there? Not even Delaney himself claims that.

[seanfhear]

Personally I think Delaney could be a walking red card at a European finals. Very vulnerable to pace.Thats always a possibility when your Flat out is "Traipsing"

[OwlsFan]

Thats always a possibility when your Flat out is "Traipsing"

"Traipsing" and "Trappsing" are similar conditions which affect a player - both result in the player making himself unavailable due to perceived slights.

[seanfhear]

Thats always a possibility when your Flat out is "Traipsing"


"Traipsing" and "Trappsing" are similar conditions which affect a player - both result in the player making himself unavailable due to perceived slights.
I think that I may be getting so cryptic that I don't know what I am trying to say myself ! ! !

Perhaps from now on we can say that when a player is not in his Totality, Totally Committed that he is a Shy Traipser !

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Personally I think Delaney could be a walking red card at a European finals. Very vulnerable to pace.

In all fairness you could level the exact same accusations at O'Shea, Duffy, Clark and Keogh.

O'Shea in particular has a habit of holding on to players at set-pieces that could be construed as an accident waiting to happen; he gave away a free kick in a dangerous position against Chelsea as soon as he came on for climbing all over Diego Costa - a player Delaney bossed in a personal battle. Clark has a tendency to be rash. Keogh goes to ground too easily and doesn't read the game as well as the others.

Delaney only has 3 yellow cards in 40 games for the season. I don't think his discipline is an issue. O'Shea likewise only has 3 yellow cards + 1 red card, though his form in general has drastically nosedived since the Germany game.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair points, and O'Shea was dreadful in Warsaw alright. I could counter by holding Delaney to fault for a goal against Turkey but we could go on for hours.

The issue here is not that nobody rates Delaney. On merit he should be in or close to the team. CB isn't a problem area. Delaney's answer above was a skilful politician's answer. It's clear that his ability is not the reason he's not in the squad. I trust O'Neill's judgment. Not a big deal. As Stu says, omitting Westwood would be far worse.

[geysir]

There is nothing to suggest O'Neill actually said that to him though, is there? Not even Delaney himself claims that.
The voices in Paul's head said MO'N said it, therefore it happened :rolleyes:

Those who read Danny's post are aware that Delaney would have been considered for selection by MO'N if he had changed his stance, i.e. be content with traipsing around with the squad without a guarantee.

It's in the nature of folk songs to have different interpretations, would this pass muster?
"As I was traipsing over
the Cork and Kerry mountains
I met with ..."

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Except Delaney claims that didn't happen.

*Tumbleweeds*

You know we have had problems with managers making erroneous claims about players commitment in the past - Trapattoni/Stephen Kelly.

Not saying that's the case this time, it likely isn't. Just peculiar how Delaney's defense is completely ignored.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not ignoring it at all. I heard it and I think it's superficially fair but also smells of a carefully worded political answer.

[paul_oshea]

Well, although different scenarios, maybe the westwood inclusion/exclusion will aid in decihpering that one. If westwood isn't included then it might give more respectibility to Delaneys claim. That's what I thought he alluded to, and hence my post earlier. But of course again, its purposely vague to be non-commital to an answer and covering backsides - or could be at least construed that way.

If Delaney is to be believed then O'Neill has made mistakes and should have been showing signs of encouragement.

[DannyInvincible]

There is another way of reading that, I find it very hard to read your posts DI, too much overload sorry :)

Martin didn't have to give assurances, correct. But Martin shouldn't be telling a player he isn't going to be his starting CB. Everyone should be treated equally, and everyone has the same chance, if that was said to me at work, then I'd be fcuked off. Words of encouragement should be everyone will get a chance, you will get a chance and its up to you to take that chance, not, you are not going to be my CB or words to that effect.

Ha, I had some of that written and then went back through the thread to retrieve some further info, so if it seemed a bit convoluted or lumped together, maybe that's why.

Just to correct/clarify what I'd written in the first sentence in case it misled/confused you, O'Neill never said Delaney wouldn't get a game. Rather, he told him that he couldn't guarantee him a game. I think that's a completely fair thing to say to any player. No player should be guaranteed a starting spot.

O'Neill stated (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/sideshows-wont-distract-martin-oneill-from-serious-business-at-hand-31492439.html): "[Delaney] said that he was of an age where he did not want to travel around with the team and really not be involved with the side. I said, 'I cannot guarantee you that'."

And (http://www.98fm.com/If-You-Need-Me-Please-Pick-Up-The-Phone--Damien-Delaney): "I do not think that Damien, from his own viewpoint, would definitely come back to play if he was not guaranteed playing in the side and I cannot guarantee anybody a place in the side."

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Well, although different scenarios, maybe the westwood inclusion/exclusion will aid in decihpering that one. If westwood isn't included then it might give more respectibility to Delaneys claim. That's what I thought he alluded to, and hence my post earlier. But of course again, its purposely vague to be non-commital to an answer and covering backsides - or could be at least construed that way.

If Delaney is to be believed then O'Neill has made mistakes and should have been showing signs of encouragement.

O'Neill is unhappy about Westwood dropping out of squads, but in fairness Westwood has missed games for his club too.

[DannyInvincible]

Except Delaney claims that didn't happen.

The comments of both are reconcilable, as far as I'm concerned.

Delaney claims he didn't explicitly demand a place and I wouldn't doubt him. Indeed, he claims he's never demanded a starting place in his career. I believe him. He seems/sounds like a decent guy.

However, that doesn't necessarily contradict O'Neill's remarks. If we look at O'Neill's words, it's entirely possible O'Neill said to Delaney during the course of a conversation that he wouldn't be able to guarantee him anything and Delaney - rather than saying, "No, I demand that you guarantee me game-time or I'm self-imposing an exile" - just said he was fine with that and would leave it so for other players as he'd only be "traipsing around Europe" for no real reason besides occupying the bench otherwise.

That's not exactly making a demand and, indeed, he needn't have made any explicit demand for O'Neill to have interpreted it as implicitly meaning: any willingness to accept a call-up on Delaney's part might be conditional upon a guarantee for game-time.

Correct me if I've missed or overlooked anything, but I think that's most likely what has happened if we're to analyse the comments of both together and read between the lines.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

^^^ I'm reminded of the scene in Scanners where yer man's head explodes.

Delaney "absolutely superb" according to Thommo on Soccer Saturday.

Edit: Replaced by Tomkins, Spurs score.

[SkStu]

Watched that game today. He was very solid I have to say. They scored immediately after he went off for what looked like a minor injury.

[Colbert Report]

It was indeed only a minor injury, but they had won a corner and the manager didn't want it taken without Delaney or another big man in the box to head it - so he subbed Delaney as he knew Delaney would have to come off to be treated for the injury and would miss the corner.

[BonnieShels]

Changing at a corner is suicidal. So many times you see goals conceded at that stage of a game.

[DeLorean]

Number one rule of management is to not making a substitution while defending a set piece, but obviously Pardew's reasoning was sound. I think the majority of manager's obey that rule for the most part though?

[Stuttgart88]

I often wonder if that's not a bit of a cliché, like never play a ball across your own penalty box. Personally I wouldn't do it but there really should be no reason why it makes a difference. A good pro should never switch off.

[DeLorean]

It's not really about switching off though, is it? I presume it's more to do with disrupting the organisation that goes into defending a corner/free kick. I can see why it could cause a bit of confusion so better to avoid it unless necessary. The playing the ball across your own goal thing is a big more vague maybe, I'm sure there are probably times when it's the best option, possibly even the only option.

[DeLorean]

Class flick to set up Palace's equaliser against Man Utd.

[BonnieShels]

Waxing lyrical about it on OTB

[SkStu]

Call him up Trap!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Involved in a confrontation with a Palace fan and taken off at half-time.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Fan who attempted to punch Delaney is arrested.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/02/04/crystal-palace-fan-arrested-police-attempting-punch-damien-delaney/

[CraftyToePoke]

That's some change from his lot a year or so ago.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I watched the highlights. Delaney wasn't at fault for any of the goals, but Tomkins and Dann most certainly were.

I wonder why some Crystal Palace fans are picking on Delaney and not them? Hmmm......

In fairness, Delaney should never have got involved. I watched another video of the incident and Delaney ran towards the fan and stood his ground while the fan roared abuse at him while hiding behind a steward.

[Colbert Report]

Madness that this man is not in the squad for the Austria match.

[the doc]

Madness that this man is not in the squad for the Austria match.
Agree, Damos a good lad

[DannyInvincible]

Didn't Delaney retire (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/damien-delaney-ends-ireland-career-but-has-no-issue-with-roy-keane-31464007.html) from international football? As far as I understand, his absence is self-imposed because he "disagree[d] with certain aspects" of what O'Neill is doing and, therefore, seemingly didn't want to be selected.

[DeLorean]

The guys who actually want to be there have done fine for the most part and exceptionally well when the stakes have been highest, e.g. Germany, Bosnia & Herzigovina, Italy, Austria, Wales, etc. Who in their right mind would have predicted five clean sheets from those matches?

I think it was CD who said recently that all of our players are going to make mistakes and there are examples of those with Clark against Belgium and Duffy's are starting to accumulate to be fair, but it's not as if Delaney would have fared too much better than what's there overall.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Keogh, Duffy and Clark all have mistakes in them. Clark had a good Thursday by virtue of not being on the pitch yesterday.

I think Keogh and Duffy's foibles show the importance of O'Shea playing Sunday week.

I'd be tempted to just continue with Keogh and O'Shea for continuity's sake, as Duffy might still be rusty.

I can't complain about Delaney's absence after the defensive performances in the aforementioned games.

Though his first season in the Premier League was excellent, so there were understandable complaints at the time.

It looks like he's going to be released this summer anyway.

* were or was?

[CraftyToePoke]

Madness that this man is not in the squad for the Austria match.

Hardly. They guy had a purple patch of club form and fair play to him but it wasn't anything more than that. He isn't head and shoulders above whats ahead of him, they are broadly comparable, many of our CB options.

Why roll the dice on the spirit and togetherness of this group for a guy who didn't really fancy it ? When the spirit and togetherness are such a huge component of what we are achieving.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

He'd fit in well judging by James McClean's comments. :p

[Stuttgart88]

Keogh, Duffy and Clark all have mistakes in themDespite both of us being positive on Randolph I think he could be added to that list too. Richard Dunne was about 53 before we could stop saying that about him.

I heard a joke about the secret to a long marriage being neither party wanting to get divorced at the same time. I think we can live with our defenders all being liable to make a mistake. The real worry is more than one of them making a mistake in the same game.

[Closed Account]

It looks like he's going to be released this summer anyway.

* were or was?
I assumed he was too, but Sam is tight lipped:
https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/24460/crystal-palace-boss-unable-confirm-duo-penned-contract-extensions/


“I can’t say anything,” said Palace boss Allardyce. “The chairman has not informed me in that area, so I cannot say publicly that we either have or we haven’t.
“We will go over that next week in our meeting. You’ll find out after that who will stay and who will be going.”