Our joke of a Youth System

[cmcd]

[QUOTE=eddieohalloran;881463] There are some people of the opinion that we must be winning leagues and cups every year at Youth level. This is not our priority however, all it would be is an added bonus. Our priority is to produce players for the 1st team.

I would think that the first priority of any team entering leagues or cups must be to first win their league and any other competition they are entered in.I would see the added bonus being if two or three players out of a team can progress.If a team has good/the best players capable of stepping up a level then its goes without saying that their team must be in the running for trophies.Its hard to accept that a team manager would think that winning a league or cup is an added bonus,teams must first want to win and the good players will naturally progress to the next level.

[6yardpunisha]

In our Ramblers utopia, we'd have a nice shiny pitch or two somewhere in the town for the underage games to be played on and for first team training.

But we don't. So get used to it, unless you have a spare full-size pitch in your back garden to donate.

Why do so many people feel its their right to come on this forum and slag the club, driving new players/supporters away, when they are doing absolutely nothing themselves to sort the situation out? This club is basically run by volunteers and its up to the club to use the very limited manpower and finances at its disposal to operate all aspects of Cobh Ramblers. Most of the people involved (including Eddie O'H whose post thankfully brought some sanity to this idiotic thread) are giving up their own time to try and give us a club to support and/or play for.

So why the hell do so many so-called supporters devote so much time to sticking the knife in from a distance instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting involved with the club? Its so cowardly and hypocritical. Going into our biggest season ever, we need everyone to rally round the club and get involved, instead of sitting at home scratching their backsides and sending stupid posts to this forum.

To those involved: Cop on lads. :mad:

agreed 100%

[bellavistaman]

In our Ramblers utopia, we'd have a nice shiny pitch or two somewhere in the town for the underage games to be played on and for first team training.

But we don't. So get used to it, unless you have a spare full-size pitch in your back garden to donate.

Why do so many people feel its their right to come on this forum and slag the club, driving new players/supporters away, when they are doing absolutely nothing themselves to sort the situation out? This club is basically run by volunteers and its up to the club to use the very limited manpower and finances at its disposal to operate all aspects of Cobh Ramblers. Most of the people involved (including Eddie O'H whose post thankfully brought some sanity to this idiotic thread) are giving up their own time to try and give us a club to support and/or play for.

So why the hell do so many so-called supporters devote so much time to sticking the knife in from a distance instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting involved with the club? Its so cowardly and hypocritical. Going into our biggest season ever, we need everyone to rally round the club and get involved, instead of sitting at home scratching their backsides and sending stupid posts to this forum.

To those involved: Cop on lads. :mad:

hear hear

[MojoPin]

[QUOTE=cmcd;881649I would think that the first priority of any team entering leagues or cups must be to first win their league and any other competition they are entered in.I would see the added bonus being if two or three players out of a team can progress.If a team has good/the best players capable of stepping up a level then its goes without saying that their team must be in the running for trophies.Its hard to accept that a team manager would think that winning a league or cup is an added bonus,teams must first want to win and the good players will naturally progress to the next level.[/QUOTE]


i used to think of it this way aswel but id rather a youths team that finished bottom every year but produced players of the cummins and cambridge mould! winning isnt eveything development is the key!

[ramsfan]

this problem is really not the clubs fault, it is simply the fact land is so expensive and to set up a pitch with facilities is going to set you back 300k , i know this is an answer some wont like but the answer is staring us right in the face, why not adopt the samepolicy as dundalk and bring in an artificial pitch, every club team could play and train on it , maintenance costs would be cut and the added bonus would be you could rent it out to all for 80- 100 euro a go, could you imagine the interest say you were in a shipping league or nightowls etc you could hire the ground for league games or finals, people would love to play in a league of ireland ground,

pluses

cut costs
increase revenue
no need for training ground


minuses

perceptions about pitch etc

[cmcd]

i used to think of it this way aswel but id rather a youths team that finished bottom every year but produced players of the cummins and cambridge mould! winning isnt eveything development is the key!

how many players do you think would be attracted to play for a team finishing bottom every year.get the best players win all you can and get a reputation as a great winning team/club and thats how you get players to come and play for the club,then with the right coaching there might be 7/8 players progressing rather than 1 or 2.

[neutral]

cmcd i would disagree with what you are saying. Players at 16, 17, 18, are looking to develop, or should be looking to develop, in order to progress. The 17's and 18's at Ramblers is simply a stepping stone for the first team, good young players dont need to be taught how to win, and good young players know and will be told, as eddie o halloran pointed out, that progression as a footballer first may eventually lead to first team football. This, I assume, is why players will want to play for Ramblers. Winnning the AUL youth league in 2008 will be no good to a footballer if in 2010 he's sitting on a barstool talkin about what a great team he was in.

[MojoPin]

how many players do you think would be attracted to play for a team finishing bottom every year.get the best players win all you can and get a reputation as a great winning team/club and thats how you get players to come and play for the club,then with the right coaching there might be 7/8 players progressing rather than 1 or 2.

would we not be back to the age old agruement if we brought in the best players where are the cobh players!

cork city go get the best players everyyear for their 17'sand 18's yet our youth system has produced ten fold what they have.

Roy keane, cummins, cambridge, meade x2, mickey o shea, kieran reilly to an extent(played msl for a while as a div 1 team),
winning is not everything!for youths anyway.

if you were given the option of gaining two players to the senior squad next year from the youths or have the youths win the league and gain no players to the senior squad which would you pick?

[MojoPin]

Winnning the AUL youth league in 2008 will be no good to a footballer if in 2010 he's sitting on a barstool talkin about what a great team he was in.

my position exactly in an uncanny way ha!

[ramsfan]

back to my artificial pitch thing, dundalk are getting 120 euro and hour or 200 euro for 2 hours, if rams rented it for 20 hours a week they would get 125 k in revenue imagine what that would do for club and there probably is agrant for these pitches

[cmcd]

cmcd i would disagree with what you are saying. Players at 16, 17, 18, are looking to develop, or should be looking to develop, in order to progress. The 17's and 18's at Ramblers is simply a stepping stone for the first team, good young players dont need to be taught how to win, and good young players know and will be told, as eddie o halloran pointed out, that progression as a footballer first may eventually lead to first team football. This, I assume, is why players will want to play for Ramblers. Winnning the AUL youth league in 2008 will be no good to a footballer if in 2010 he's sitting on a barstool talkin about what a great team he was in.
i see your point its just if you set out to win a league it goes without saying that if you win that league that you will have good players already in your team and winning also brings players on when they have a winning mentality,play without fear and can express themselves and have a confidence about them.
i suppose winning the league/cups and passing a load of players to the senior team would be the ideal answer.

[outside in]

back to my artificial pitch thing, dundalk are getting 120 euro and hour or 200 euro for 2 hours, if rams rented it for 20 hours a week they would get 125 k in revenue imagine what that would do for club and there probably is agrant for these pitches
i could be wrong but didnt rams get a grant a few years back and the money was only to be used on a training ground?

[outside in]

i played 2 and a half seasons for ramblers under 17s and 18s and i never paid for anything whilst there ever!
i dont see why the school boys have to pay and 17s dont,the club has enough money problems,your only talking 4 or 5 euro a man/boy.over the season it would save the club a tidy sum

[rambler14]

i used to think of it this way aswel but id rather a youths team that finished bottom every year but produced players of the cummins and cambridge mould! winning isnt eveything development is the key!

Exactly. Development is key.

[ramsfan]

i dont know did they get a grant ?

[eddieohalloran]

If only things could be explained to us as clearly as that all the time.


Question for ya Eddie:
Are you happy that Cobh Ramblers have to play their home games away from Cobh?
I understand where your coming from but surely you can't like the fact that Pfizers is the home pitch of the 17's and Ballinhassig is the home pitch of the youths!

The U17 Management team are not happy with the way things are but our job within the club is to prepare the players as best we can for each match, we do not get involved in any politics or have any say where we play our games. We leave everything else up to the Committee.

[rambler14]

The U17 Management team are not happy with the way things are but our job within the club is to prepare the players as best we can for each match, we do not get involved in any politics or have any say where we play our games. We leave everything else up to the Committee.

Fair enough

[eddieohalloran]

[QUOTE=eddieohalloran;881463] There are some people of the opinion that we must be winning leagues and cups every year at Youth level. This is not our priority however, all it would be is an added bonus. Our priority is to produce players for the 1st team.

I would think that the first priority of any team entering leagues or cups must be to first win their league and any other competition they are entered in.I would see the added bonus being if two or three players out of a team can progress.If a team has good/the best players capable of stepping up a level then its goes without saying that their team must be in the running for trophies.Its hard to accept that a team manager would think that winning a league or cup is an added bonus,teams must first want to win and the good players will naturally progress to the next level.

Conor,

That is all very well to say but if you ask any professional manager what his priorities are from his youth managers the answer you will get is the following:
a. Produce players for the 1st team.
b. Win the FAI Youths Cup.
c. Win the league.

[luka]

The U17 Management team are not happy with the way things are but our job within the club is to prepare the players as best we can for each match, we do not get involved in any politics or have any say where we play our games. We leave everything else up to the Committee.

Lads.........my advice would be to listen to what eddieohalloran has to say. His points here are probably the most valid I've see in this thread so far.

[eddieohalloran]

i dont see why the school boys have to pay and 17s dont,the club has enough money problems,your only talking 4 or 5 euro a man/boy.over the season it would save the club a tidy sum

You are incorrect to say the U17s do not pay. The U17s pay a weekly sum of money to play for the team and that money is used to meet team expenses which are very high indeed.

[outside in]

You are incorrect to say the U17s do not pay. The U17s pay a weekly sum of money to play for the team and that money is used to meet team expenses which are very high indeed.
wat expenses does the team have bar ref and washing the gear?

[MojoPin]

balls, renting astroturf, bus to home and away games by the look of it. washing the gear is prob the only one not done!

[eddieohalloran]

wat expenses does the team have bar ref and washing the gear?

The main expenses that the U17 team have are the hire of the astroturf for training and travelling to away matches. The hire of the astroturf is a huge expense and we travel to games by car not bus. The gear is washed at St Colmans Park by one of the U17 Management team (who give their time voluntary) after every match so that expense is spared for us. Unlike previous U17 and Youth teams, who I believed paid nothing for years, the U17 management have decided to have the team pay its way. That is the we we have run our team since they were U11.

I have decided to comment and reply to posts on this thread because of the inaccuracies made specifically about the U17 team. As U17 manager I have no problem clarifying how we operate and I feel I have done so here. I will not be replying to any more comments on this issue.

I would urge those who have issues regarding the club to raise them at the AGM which is the correct forum to stand up and speak about any issue which you as members may have about the club. Eddie O'Halloran

[ramsfan]

lads i think this thread is getting a little stale, the management of the underage teams is not in question they are doing a fantastic job, only have to looka t players coming through to seniors and players on fringe to see this, the problem is a pitch and more to the point insurance the main reasoning for most pitches being unavailable is the fact no matter how many forms you sign if you break a leg on someones land they are responsible

at the end of the day if teams have to play outside cobh it is not the best situation but it is better than having no teams at all, people moan about rams not being available but there must be 7-8 teams looking to us it every week as well as training and if we are to stand any chance the pitch needs to be in top condition for senior team


look at chelsea they play all reserves and below in brentfords ground , other teams do it so it really is not that big a deal, a long term solution will have to be found as if we have ambitions as a club we need a proper facility for training but at he mo it is boom time for land and we are caught smack bang in the middle

what i do find hard to understand is the uncooperative nature of other clubs in cobh they have pitches why not allow rams to play there and make some revenue or train in there grounds as rams play mostly in there off season


i go back to my original post, i firmly believe an artificial pitch is the way forward

[MojoPin]

your missing a number of basic points in relation to the astro turf! ramblers operate at least 20 teams! senior, under 20, youth, 17's, ladies, under 6's all the way up to under 16's. all these teams tarin twice a week we'll say! thats 40 hours if each get an hour slot twice a week! now if 6pm n is prime rental time mon - fri thats a huge chunk gone out of the equation! ontop of this if the teams are training for free its gonna cost the club a few hundred euro an hour (assuming they cost this) due to the top quality lights having to be turned on constantly!!!! now im not saying multipal teams cant train at the same time but if Ramblers own the facility im sure individual teams would expect more space and time offered to them! on top of this there is already a fairly new astro turf in the area, which would provide substantial competition in a small town such as cobh! insurance is another serious factor the local nightowls was discontinued due to high insurance costs!

im not sure but do dundalk have as many teams to field?

[outside in]

your missing a number of basic points in relation to the astro turf! ramblers operate at least 20 teams! senior, under 20, youth, 17's, ladies, under 6's all the way up to under 16's. all these teams tarin twice a week we'll say! thats 40 hours if each get an hour slot twice a week! now if 6pm n is prime rental time mon - fri thats a huge chunk gone out of the equation! ontop of this if the teams are training for free its gonna cost the club a few hundred euro an hour (assuming they cost this) due to the top quality lights having to be turned on constantly!!!! now im not saying multipal teams cant train at the same time but if Ramblers own the facility im sure individual teams would expect more space and time offered to them! on top of this there is already a fairly new astro turf in the area, which would provide substantial competition in a small town such as cobh! insurance is another serious factor the local nightowls was discontinued due to high insurance costs!

im not sure but do dundalk have as many teams to field?
i would think every team pays for da astro,i agree wit ya on there being an astro here already but surly if and its a big if rams had an astro every s/r team should have to use it,it should get ya 20 grand a year.but we would need around 700,000 for a good astro

[6yardpunisha]

i would think every team pays for da astro,i agree wit ya on there being an astro here already but surly if and its a big if rams had an astro every s/r team should have to use it,it should get ya 20 grand a year.but we would need around 700,000 for a good astro

dundalk make approx €200,000 per annum profit from their astroturf, think if people had a choice between colaiste mhuire and Colmans Park, Colmans Park would be the choice of most people

[outside in]

what i do find hard to understand is the uncooperative nature of other clubs in cobh they have pitches why not allow rams to play there and make some revenue or train in there grounds as rams play mostly in there off season
that would mean that their pitch was used all year round,each club has to protect their investment.there not in good shape anyway wanderers is a sand pit and springers cant cope wit the games they have on it now never mind playing on it in the off season

[outside in]

dundalk make approx €200,000 per annum profit from their astroturf, think if people had a choice between colaiste mhuire and Colmans Park, Colmans Park would be the choice of most people
holy s##t,how much do they charge an hour €200:eek:?

[MojoPin]

i would think every team pays for da astro,i agree wit ya on there being an astro here already but surly if and its a big if rams had an astro every s/r team should have to use it,it should get ya 20 grand a year.but we would need around 700,000 for a good astro

i dont think ramblers underage tems would expect to pay for the use! and just thinking of it the ramblers floodlights would prob outweigh the cost of renting the place! does anyone have an estimate as to what the lights cost an hour? and another thing is light pollution the surrouding houses wouldnt be too happy if them lights were on from 6 to 11 everynight!

im not trying to be negative here but just thinking of the foreseeable problems! the main advantage of astro fields isthey offer a good home record to the home team!

[outside in]

i dont think ramblers underage tems would expect to pay for the use! and just thinking of it the ramblers floodlights would prob outweigh the cost of renting the place! does anyone have an estimate as to what the lights cost an hour? and another thing is light pollution the surrouding houses wouldnt be too happy if them lights were on from 6 to 11 everynight!

im not trying to be negative here but just thinking of the foreseeable problems! the main advantage of astro fields isthey offer a good home record to the home team!
they all pay for it now so they shpuld keep doing it.lights must be off by ten,the col charge €80 an hour so it cant cost that much for lights alone

[MojoPin]

they all pay for it now so they shpuld keep doing it.lights must be off by ten,the col charge €80 an hour so it cant cost that much for lights alone

the col lights aint 1/4 as good as our lights! and ya gotta remember the col astro was paid for by the government or substanially funded by school grants. i would like an astro turf for cobh ramblers use! but not as the home ground. i dont think it would be feesible for an astro on anotehr site in cobh!

[chimpster]

Wow, Colmans will have Ireland's first sloping AstroTurf pitch! Can't even begin to imagine the costs of levelling the pitch and re-building the stands to make 'em level. We'd have to spend 90 minutes watching Bilko trying to make the ball stand still for a goal kick...

[ramsfan]

Wow, Colmans will have Ireland's first sloping AstroTurf pitch! Can't even begin to imagine the costs of levelling the pitch and re-building the stands to make 'em level. We'd have to spend 90 minutes watching Bilko trying to make the ball stand still for a goal kick...

classic quote:D

[ramsfan]

so mojo , what would you suggest is the answer as i am stumped:confused:

[MojoPin]

the answer to what? getting a new pitch? havent a clue! but seeming as the golf club is moving soon is there any chance of getting a 10 year lease or something off them, just a taught not very well taught out!

[gee wizz]

surely seen as the ramblers underage age section have the use of the tech field they could get two pitches on the area they have up there,and if not the college pitch is never used they could rent that?

[6yardpunisha]

surely seen as the ramblers underage age section have the use of the tech field they could get two pitches on the area they have up there,and if not the college pitch is never used they could rent that?

seems there is an issue with the board of management in the college and they wont let ramblers use it, kinda of funny when you think of the amount of current pupils involved in the underage teams, so much for local cooperation

[luka]

seems there is an issue with the board of management in the college and they wont let ramblers use it, kinda of funny when you think of the amount of current pupils involved in the underage teams, so much for local cooperation

Some things will never change.

[ramblersnb1]

the college pitch is used fairly often compared the the amount of times the tech pitch is used by the school is a good pitch but seems to get bogged very easily also gradd is very long 80% of the time

[ramsfan]

i heard that all right and the tech is apparently booked solid so cant be used, golf club idea has some sense , if say flemings are buing it why not try and get them to give yo a piece of land for a pitch
anybody remember the pitch in ifi where all summer pub league games used to be played all that area is up for rent why not get a lease on that or buy it and develop it as a training come underage pitch

[rambler14]

i heard that all right and the tech is apparently booked solid so cant be used, golf club idea has some sense , if say flemings are buing it why not try and get them to give yo a piece of land for a pitch
anybody remember the pitch in ifi where all summer pub league games used to be played all that area is up for rent why not get a lease on that or buy it and develop it as a training come underage pitch

There isn't a piece of flat land out in the golf club. I doubt a pitch out there would be the solution.
I'd say the best bet would either the pitch in IFI or a new development in somewhere like Ballymore. It seems to be the only place in Cobh with some land left.
As for the pitch in the TEK, the drainage is terrible up there. i just went passed it and it looked waterlogged.
Colaiste Muire's pitch would come at a price and since the new principal took over the rates for the pitches and gym have gone up 300%.

[Rambler1]

i heard that all right and the tech is apparently booked solid so cant be used, golf club idea has some sense , if say flemings are buing it why not try and get them to give yo a piece of land for a pitch
anybody remember the pitch in ifi where all summer pub league games used to be played all that area is up for rent why not get a lease on that or buy it and develop it as a training come underage pitchFor every x amount of houses they build they have to supply a pitch...BTW the Cooline houses have replaced an existing pitch and they are bound by CCC rules to replace that so the pitch is /should be on the way if someone in power pushes them on it.

[The Rebel Ram]

For every x amount of houses they build they have to supply a pitch...BTW the Cooline houses have replaced an existing pitch and they are bound by CCC rules to replace that so the pitch is /should be on the way if someone in power pushes them on it.

Is it not a green area they have to replace? Not a pitch.
I can't see too many residents accepting a training ground where their own kids should be playing!!!

[Rambler1]

No they have to provide a playing field (full size to replace the amenity thats now gone) as a condition of the planning process.

[outside in]

surely seen as the ramblers underage age section have the use of the tech field they could get two pitches on the area they have up there,and if not the college pitch is never used they could rent that?
welcome back:D

[4th-div-are-we]

How about that little area behind the tech skool....there's a full size pitch area there behind the gael scoil! its a weird surface but could be resurfaced with astroturf!!
Also i played in a real astroturf field down in blarney last week and it was a great difference from the 1 in colaiste muire...it was like a normal pitch with reasonably long grass and it doesn't give you those nasty carpet burns!!!

what about the pitch in haulbowline?it looks a great size flat pitch but i dont know about its drainage.doubht it would be the best!

[rambler14]

what about the pitch in haulbowline?it looks a great size flat pitch but i dont know about its drainage.doubht it would be the best!

Shockin pitch. Sure the navy don't even use it anymore as far as i know. The helicopter marks in the centre circle would be a bit of negative too.

[gee wizz]

welcome back:D

cheers for that outside in,i have come back a reformed poster who from now on will read every post twice to make sure i never feel the firm hand of justice from dahamsta:D

[luka]

Jeezzzzzzz...........:eek: The Prodical returns. Has it been a month already? You must have got all your lines in on time :D