Ireland line-up under Trapattoni

[irishfan86]

I don't know if they're that attacking to be honest. Reid and Emerton/Dunn are very responsible and don't get exposed too often, while the wingers are free to join the attack quite a bit.

Contrast that to teams that give wingers and one of the central midfielders freedom to attack as much as they want and they aren't the most offensive team out there.

I'd call them a good balance between offense and defense, but not an out and out offensive team. If you watch their matches they're quite structured, they remind me quite a bit like Everton in their style of play.

[eirebhoy]

For me it is very attacking and it obviously works. 2 proper attacking wide players and 2 strikers. I don't think Andy Reid is any more attacking than Dunn so I'd like to see himself and S.Reid play together.

[dr_peepee]

The overall question is not just about the two midfeilders though it's about the package. For instance, flanked by Duff and McGeady, I don't think Reid and Reid would work. Bentley is a different offering to Pedersen, Duff and McGeady as a wide player so it's not comparing apples with apples. The same as Emerton has played a lot at Right Back so I'd say he has a little more defensively to offer than Andy Reid.

My overall opinion on Andy Reid is that he's all about football. He wants the ball and wants to use it progressively. I don't think he should constrained by the tactics, positioning & discipline required to play a deeper role, particularly when the further back you go the less insulation you have from his lack of engine, physique and poor tackling.

[Supreme feet]

Stephen Ireland on the right? He's a different type of player to Duff or McGeady, and he could cut inside when prudent. Gus Poyet used to play out wide for Chelsea, but never stayed there. As did Lee Bowyer during his happy times at Leeds. I'm never sure about playing two out-and-out wide players in a 4-4-2.

As for the middle, the Reid-Reid partnership should at least be tried in one of the friendlies. if it doesn't work, get a more solid player in instead of Andy. Carsley for the (very) short term, hopefully one of the younger lads will step up. Hope springs eternal.

Anybody know anything about Darron Gibson? Haven't heard much of him lately, I had high hopes for him after seeing him against Denmark and for United reserves. Seems to have the physique, composure and intelligence to be a good midfielder.

[irishfan86]

Anybody know anything about Darron Gibson? Haven't heard much of him lately, I had high hopes for him after seeing him against Denmark and for United reserves. Seems to have the physique, composure and intelligence to be a good midfielder.

I watched a couple of Man United's pre-season games and he looked talented but sloppy in possession. He gave the ball away quite a bit against Asian club sides that were not solid at all- probably mid-championship level teams.

That said, he was always driving forward and not afraid to shoot from distance, something we've been sorely lacking in centre midfield lately.

He's on loan at Wolves lately- I saw a couple of his games when he first went there and he was being played wide right- he doesn't have the pace to play as a right midfielder, he's built for the centre....basically he looked crap on the right.

Hard to judge how good he is or will be, but I've got my doubts.

[lionelhutz]

What is Irelands best starting line up on the current form of our players with their clubs?? For arguments sake, you can include Finnan, O'Brien, Ireland, etc.

Mine would be:

Given

Finnan Dunne O'Brien Kilbane

McGeady S.Reid A.Reid Hunt

Ireland

Keane

Doyle is playing OK with Reading but hasn't scored for an eternity. Duff has not played anywhere near his best since returning from injury.

I suppose there's a case for Carsley to be included on club form but S.Reid and Ireland are playing very well for their clubs and A.Reid is starting to play to form with Sunderland

[paul_oshea]

ireland isn't playing as much not johnson is back and likely wont be for a while either.

[eirebhoy]

Johnson has only been back one game and they both started. Johnson is a central midfielder anyway. Ireland has played all but 1 or 2 of the games he's been available for this season. On current form Elano will be back to the bench before Ireland if Castillo is due a start.

[dr_peepee]

Is Ireland being groomed at city for that Elano role do you think???

[ifk101]

If any players are available our best line-up IMO is either;

Given
Finnan Dunne A. O'Brien JOSH
Carsley
McGeady Ireland A. Reid Duff
Doyle

or

Given
Finnan Dunne A.O'Brien JOSH
Ireland Carsley A. Reid Duff
Doyle Keane

I thought we looked a good side when we played a 4-5-1 formation under Stan. The problem with that formation is where do you put Keane and we can't leave out Keane.

As for a 4-4-2 formation it is hard to know what our best partnership in the centre of midfield is. I'd like to have S. Reid in there but he's generally injured so you can't count on his longterm availability. Carsley can't pass the ball but he's our best player at breaking up the opposition play and we need a player that can do that in the side. I don't think Ireland is strong enough for the centre of midfield in a 4-4-2 formation so it's nip and tuck between him and McGeady for the right of midfield. Trapattoni will need to figure out quickly what our best options are at centre half and centre field - I think the injury proneness of certain players should also bear heavily on his thinking.

[paul_oshea]

Johnson has only been back one game and they both started. Johnson is a central midfielder anyway. Ireland has played all but 1 or 2 of the games he's been available for this season. On current form Elano will be back to the bench before Ireland if Castillo is due a start.

Ive been having a good chat to a city fan at work the last few days ( he reckons there are lots of young Irish lads there too coming through some quite young ) he reckons Ireland will be on the bench now that johnson is back and elano will be playing. I did notice he had been substituted in a few of thelast games too.

[tetsujin1979]

ireland isn't playing as much not johnson is back and likely wont be for a while either.I don't see why, they were both starting in the same team before Johnson got injured.

Ireland has played all but 1 or 2 of the games he's been available for this seasonFrom http://www.chatsoccer.net/irishabroad/teamDetails.xquery?teamID=1718
Ireland has missed five games for City this season, 3 of those were because he was suspended. He's started every other game, apart from 2 when he came on as a sub

Is Ireland being groomed at city for that Elano role do you think???Elano is still only 26, he'll be around for a long time yet. But, yeah if Ireland improves the defensive side of his game, he could play a little deeper in midfield, where Elano is now.


he reckons there are lots of young Irish lads there too coming through some quite young
City's Academy side beat Sunderland 2-0 in the semi final of the FA Youth Cup last night, Donal McDemott set up the second goal.
From the reserves there's Karl Moore, Ian Daly, Michael Daly (not related), Paul Marshall, and Garry Breen

he reckons Ireland will be on the bench now that johnson is back and elano will be playing. I did notice he had been substituted in a few of thelast games too.
Most teams have figured out how to mark/kick Elano out of the game now, but Ireland hasn't come in for that kind of treatment yet.
With everyone fit and available, I'd say the City midfield will line up something like this

Hamann Johnson/Fernandez
Elano Petrov
Ireland
with Ireland coming off the right into the centre

[livehead1]

Ive been having a good chat to a city fan at work the last few days ( he reckons there are lots of young Irish lads there too coming through some quite young ) he reckons Ireland will be on the bench now that johnson is back and elano will be playing. I did notice he had been substituted in a few of thelast games too.

Well I doubt you mate knows sh*t. Elano has been terrible for the last few months, ever since he came back from international match for Brazil. He'll get plenty of football.

[paul_oshea]

Well I doubt you mate knows sh*t. Elano has been terrible for the last few months, ever since he came back from international match for Brazil. He'll get plenty of football.

I never said he was my mate. Time will tell though alright....

[dr_peepee]

Elano is still only 26, he'll be around for a long time yet. But, yeah if Ireland improves the defensive side of his game, he could play a little deeper in midfield, where Elano is now.


Didn't realise he was that young...

[eirebhoy]

I was just thinking. Lack of leaders got mentioned a few times with our current set of players. Given, Dunne, Carsley, S.Reid, Kilbane, Keane and Hunt are all top 3 in the list for captain at their clubs. Andy Reid was Charlton captain and will probably take that role with Sunderland if he's as influential for them. Andy O'Brien captained Bolton last night if we can include him. Not bad for what could potentially fill 9 of the 11 spots in the team for the qualifiers.

[kingdom hoop]

Fair point Eirebhoy, but how many of those mentioned strike you as great characters? It's great to have plenty of guys who are used to speaking up in the dressing-room, but when we need it I can't see any of our current crop really standing up and rallying the troops. I suppose it'll have be more participatory democratic than autocratic. The autocrat option did work well in the recent past though!

A general lack of strong characters strikes me as a current theme in world football though to be fair. Does an insulated lifestyle and too much money make people a bit soft?

[shakermaker1982]

If I was sending out a team tomorrow against Georgia away from home (assuming Given is fit and we can tempt Andy O'Brien back) it would look something like this:

Given

S Kelly Dunne A O'Brien O'Shea

Hunt S Reid A Reid Duff

Ireland

Keane

Subs:

McGeady
Doyle
Carsley - to defend a lead with 15 minutes to go
Long
Kilbane
Keeper

I don't think we have the players (particularly in MF) to play an attacking 4-3-3 like Manchester United (and to some extent Chelsea) and I'm somewhat reluctant to leave Robbie up there on his own but S Ireland likes to break forward and support.

Whatever happens I hope the Trap picks players on form/merit. Hopefully O'Halloran gets some starts at A Villa early next season and starts making a serious challenge for the LB slot.

[eagleforlife]

Given
Foley Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
Scannell Carsley A. Reid S. Hunt
Keane Morrison

[eirebhoy]

A 4-2-3-1. Ive never seen any manager use this before. :eek:
I see van Basten said yesterday that he's going to also play 4-2-3-1 with Holland. You could say England played that formation too last night.

[NeilMcD]

Benitez used it for years at Valencia and would have used it but he did not have the balls to do it at Liverpool until recently. Its a very common formation. Two central midfielders who break it up and give it, in the central area. 2 wingers and a number 10 and then a number nine up front on his own.

[jmurphyc]

Benitez used it for years at Valencia and would have used it but he did not have the balls to do it at Liverpool until recently. Its a very common formation. Two central midfielders who break it up and give it central. 2 wingers and a number 10 and then a number nine up front on his own.

The thing for me is that it's a very versatile formation. Depending on the circumstances we can play with width or (assuming Duff and McGeady are the starting wingers) we can get them to switch flanks and cut inside. I really think it's the best formation for us.

[eirebhoy]

And from the Guardian:

"Like virtually all top-flight coaches Capello is currently drawn to the 4-2-3-1 formation and variants of it that promise the security that comes of getting 10 men behind the ball in short order when possession is lost."

Don't mind me, I'm just trying to make finnpark look a bit silly. ;)

[paul_oshea]

And from the Guardian:

"Like virtually all top-flight coaches Capello is currently drawn to the 4-2-3-1 formation and variants of it that promise the security that comes of getting 10 men behind the ball in short order when possession is lost."

Don't mind me, I'm just trying to make finnpark look a bit silly. ;)

EB, you dont need to do anything, he is perfectly capabable himself ;)

[tetsujin1979]

Hughton backs Trapattoni appointment: http://www.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/03/29/International-Hughton-backs-Trap-appointment/?facets/football/

[Razors left peg]

Given
Kelly-Dunne-O Shea-Kilbane
Reid-Reid
Duff-Keane-McGeady
Doyle

For the the first game anyway this is how I would like us to line out. It might be a bit attacking for games away from home but in Croker it gives us alot of options. Subject to change if Finnan comes out of retirement.Doyle not getting alot of goals at moment but I think he has the work rate to do the lone striker role well

[Blue-Army]

If I was sending out a team tomorrow against Georgia away from home (assuming Given is fit and we can tempt Andy O'Brien back) it would look something like this:

Given

S Kelly Dunne A O'Brien O'Shea

Hunt S Reid A Reid Duff

Ireland

Keane

Subs:

McGeady
Doyle
Carsley - to defend a lead with 15 minutes to go
Long
Kilbane
Keeper

Thats a good team for away games, but I'd have McGeady in instead of Hunt as he's more effective coming off the bench if we need him.

[finnpark]

And from the Guardian:

"Like virtually all top-flight coaches Capello is currently drawn to the 4-2-3-1 formation and variants of it that promise the security that comes of getting 10 men behind the ball in short order when possession is lost."

Don't mind me, I'm just trying to make finnpark look a bit silly. ;)

You may accept that journalists have a level of intelligence above you but I don't accept that they have above me :rolleyes:. Listening to journalists is just dangerous and I can see why theres so much rubbish on here with people like you giving other people's opinions and not their own.

If its 10 men behind the ball then its a 10-1 formation.

[shakermaker1982]

Thats a good team for away games, but I'd have McGeady in instead of Hunt as he's more effective coming off the bench if we need him.

It's a tricky one, I'd opt for Hunt to start personally but I can see how some people would have McGeady starting from the off. Particularly if he continues his good form in a Celtic shirt. If Ireland doesn't come back then McGeady can always play behind Robbie in the hole or just give him a free role to go where he pleases.

[Greenforever]

You may accept that journalists have a level of intelligence above you but I don't accept that they have above me :rolleyes:. Listening to journalists is just dangerous and I can see why theres so much rubbish on here with people like you giving other people's opinions and not their own.

If its 10 men behind the ball then its a 10-1 formation.


Journalists have a level of intelligence:rolleyes: not the ones I know

[youngirish]

You may accept that journalists have a level of intelligence above you but I don't accept that they have above me :rolleyes:. Listening to journalists is just dangerous and I can see why theres so much rubbish on here with people like you giving other people's opinions and not their own.

If its 10 men behind the ball then its a 10-1 formation.
Most of the regular posters on this site would be far more knowledgable about football than the majority of sports journalists out there. A swift scour through any tabloid on the newsstands would quickly confirm this to be so.

[NeilMcD]

Well Youngirish if its not vinegar its sweets.

[citizenerased]

Duff shouldnt start, he is not even getting onto the newcastle bench these days,,McGeady has had an outstanding season and deserves to start IMO..Duff cant live off his past glories any longer, players should be picked on current form and not what their name is or what their past glories consisted of. team v serbia should be..

...........................................Given


Kelly.........Dunne(c).........O'Shea...........Ki lbane


..............................S.Reid......A.Reid


Ireland .....................Keane........................ McGeady



.......................................Doyle

[youngirish]

Well Youngirish if its not vinegar its sweets.

I just said they would be far more knowledgable than most sports journalists. That's not a glowing endoresment. It's more akin to saying that most would also beat David Beckham in a spelling contest.

[geysir]

I bet Beckham can spell endorsement :)

[tetsujin1979]

Duff shouldnt start, he is not even getting onto the newcastle bench these days,
He was on the Newcastle bench yesterday :rolleyes:

[paul_oshea]

and its about current IRISH form, i dont give a monkeys if a player is terrible for club and brilliant for country, if he is doing it for Ireland thats all that matters.

[jmurphyc]

Duff shouldnt start, he is not even getting onto the newcastle bench these days,,McGeady has had an outstanding season and deserves to start IMO..Duff cant live off his past glories any longer, players should be picked on current form and not what their name is or what their past glories consisted of. team v serbia should be..

...........................................Given


Kelly.........Dunne(c).........O'Shea...........Ki lbane


..............................S.Reid......A.Reid


Ireland .....................Keane........................ McGeady



.......................................Doyle

Isn't Given out until the end of the season? Also, if current form rules Duff out, why should O'Shea be picked?

[Seagull-4-life]

Given
S. Kelly Dunne (C) O'Shea Kilbane
McGeady S Reid A Reid Duff
Ireland
Keane

i change it every day though lads

[Dr. Ogba]

Isn't Given out until the end of the season? Also, if current form rules Duff out, why should O'Shea be picked?

cause we're not exactly flush with options at CB. Hopefully Trap gives both Paddy McCarthy and StLedger a shot at some stage..

On the whole I'd agree with citizenerased's starting eleven but wouldn't be too disappointed to see Ireland and/or McGeady replaced by Duff or Hunt...

[jmurphyc]

cause we're not exactly flush with options at CB. Hopefully Trap gives both Paddy McCarthy and StLedger a shot at some stage..

On the whole I'd agree with citizenerased's starting eleven but wouldn't be too disappointed to see Ireland and/or McGeady replaced by Duff or Hunt...

Well, we don't have a lot of options anwhere on the pitch. I agree that we need to give unused players a try at centre back though. I too agree with most of citizenerased's starting 11, but the team mostly picks itself. A team that anyone picks is only going to differ from another person's by 2 or 3 players.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Been deliberating on this for a while since the thread started. Would personally go for:

Given

Kelly Dunne O'Shea Kilbane

Carsley
S Reid A Reid

Keane McGeady
Doyle

Let Carsley play his natural holding role that he's excelled at with Everton, offering much needed protection to defence and allow both Reid's to go forward when space opens up.

Hopefully we'll have a bit of flexibility with Duff, Ireland, & Long able to play off the front man (and in the long term Keogh & Scannell), with Hunt or Garvan able to step into the midfield, with Steven Reid potentially dropping into Carsley's role in the long term. Hope to God, O'Dea comes through soon and McShane regains a bit of last year's form, as defence is a big concern.

Overall, love the way that Trappatonni has got the young kids all playing the same formation. Our style has always suited a tough in midfield and quick counter attack style so 4-5-1 moving to a 4-3-3 could be the perfect formation if played fluidly. Here's hoping.

[Razors left peg]

Caleb Folan getting a few goals recently... is he good enough to get in the squad? Big lad that seems to have a bit of pace, could be a decent sub for us to give us a bit of different option, but I havent seen enough of him to judge

[irishfan86]

Caleb Folan getting a few goals recently... is he good enough to get in the squad? Big lad that seems to have a bit of pace, could be a decent sub for us to give us a bit of different option, but I havent seen enough of him to judge

Looked pretty dire at Wigan, but then again maybe he didn't get much service.

Can't hurt giving him a run with Keane though.....if the Keane- Doyle partnership persists I'll be very surprised, it's been totally ineffective.

[Razors left peg]

Looked pretty dire at Wigan, but then again maybe he didn't get much service.

Can't hurt giving him a run with Keane though.....if the Keane- Doyle partnership persists I'll be very surprised, it's been totally ineffective.

dont think we can judge the Keane/Doyle partnership until they have worked together on the training ground with a proper coach, they did work well together at times in Wales in fairness

[irishfan86]

dont think we can judge the Keane/Doyle partnership until they have worked together on the training ground with a proper coach, they did work well together at times in Wales in fairness

One good game against a team with a defense as dire as Wales is hardly convincing, especially when you consider it was basically a "competitive friendly."

I stand by my assertion that Robbie needs a big man to partner him. He went through his best goalscoring stretches alongside Mido, and now Berbatov.

He is great at reading flick ons, and playing off a player capable of holding up the ball.

The natural option for me is Alan Lee as I've said before. I'm not saying there is no debate on the issue, I've never seen the combination, but I'd say it's worth a shot.

[NeilMcD]

I would argue that one game not under Staunton and they looked good. Think about how they can look if they have Tardelli, Brady and Trap.

[irishfan86]

I would argue that one game not under Staunton and they looked good. Think about how they can look if they have Tardelli, Brady and Trap.

It's a fair point. I'm not advocating that we never try this combination again, I'm just saying that in my view their skill sets do not complement each other, and we should be at least be trying some other options.

[Razors left peg]

It's a fair point. I'm not advocating that we never try this combination again, I'm just saying that in my view their skill sets do not complement each other, and we should be at least be trying some other options.

I agree with u that he works best of a big man, but I think Doyle is excellent in the air and they never made proper use of that

[NeilMcD]

Yeah I saw real signs of two intelligent players playing together in Cardiff. Now I know it was against a very average team, however they seemed to be reading each others passes and flick ons etc. If Keane is in the last third all the time for Ireland and he has Doyle to feed off, Doyle will make intelligent runs and vice versa. I think with lots of work on the training ground and good coaching that they can work together. I am not saying we should not have other ideas up our sleeves but I think its a partnership worth working on, certainly for the immediate future anyway.