AIL Update

[thedoyler]

Ive heard 2 different proposals from those behind it: (i). Two 10 or 12 team divisions comprising of teams from both countries with the likes of bohs, drogs, linfield and glentoran in the premier and a first division with bray, ucd and dungannon.

(ii). The second option is an interesting one, interesting because it adopts the regional method of american sports. There would be regional leagues with the winners advancing to the next stage a la MLS, with the hopes that the likes of Cork V Waterford, Drogheda v Dundalk and Finn Harps v Derry would pull in the crowds. There would be a North, East, West and South. The stages beyond that hadnt been discussed as this was only an idea on the table. But market research done had showed at the last Bray v UCD game that UCD only brought 15 fans so that is kind of turning them off that idea. What does everyone think?

[BohsPartisan]

Don't like the second option. I like playing Cork, Galway, Derry etc. on a regular basis.

[Buller]

Agreed. That second option is a joke...

[dcfcsteve]

I would put any money on the second option not happeneing, for the simple fact that it just wouldn't be atrtractive enough for fans, sponsors, players - anyone really !

An AIL will be all about new and exciting league fixtures - Derry v Linfield, Rovers v Linfield, Bohs v Glentoran etc etc. There would be no point doing it if it was largely just a continuation of what we already have in both leagues.

[GavinZac]

To be fair, theres no place for the likes of UCD in any future "elite" league.

[Schumi]

But market research done had showed at the last Bray v UCD game that UCD only brought 15 fans so that is kind of turning them off that idea. What does everyone think?How was this research done? I don't remember anyone asking me.

Any system which results in more rather than less trips to Bray gets a thumbs down from me anyway.

[feo123]

2nd option is just the league cup but with norn iron teams in it

[A face]

The current state of the AIL has been presented to the LOI Managers Association, dont know when but they have met and its all been discussed with them and the current 'framework' (in search for a better word) has been outlined to them.

[Poor Student]

How was this research done? I don't remember anyone asking me.

Yeah, I hope no one paid for it as I wasn't asked either.

[BohDiddley]

There were 15 of you, and they were doing a head count. Presumably they didn't need any assistance in the task.

[CJTheGull]

It will be awhile before it even happens and I suppose the Setanta Cup is a good opportunity to see the north v south teams in action. You can't really beat having the best and most successful teams on the island together rather than a geographical split - in fairness America is about 100 times bigger than Ireland so it makes sense for them but not for us. Big difference going from Drogheda to Galway that it is to go from Houston to Miami.

One thing that I do know is that Dublin does not need another team - the established ones that are there already are struggling so how in God's name is Sporting Fingal going to prosper???? There appointment is doomed to failure.

[Poor Student]

There were 15 of you, and they were doing a head count. Presumably they didn't need any assistance in the task.

So how do you know who the people not wearing club colours support?

[BohDiddley]

I suppose they could have invested in some high-end statistical package and extrapolated from the base support of scarfers.

Though perhaps they should have consulted with you as to the UCD casuals element. :D

[OneRedArmy]

So how do you know who the people not wearing club colours support?Rovers or Bohs?

:D

[Poor Student]

I suppose they could have invested in some high-end statistical package and extrapolated from the base support of scarfers.


I have no problem with a guesstimate and don't expect that Bray should have carried out expensive market research but if it didn't even go so far as to survey people entering at the only gate then don't use numbers as if they come from an authoritative source.

By the way, I am not arguing with the numbers and don't claim we had more or less fans there. I honestly can't remember.

[superfrank]

I have no problem with a guesstimate and don't expect that Bray should have carried out expensive market research but if it didn't even go so far as to survey people entering at the only gate then don't use numbers as if they come from an authoritative source.
I really doubt that we were actually carrying out market research. It could've been the FAI.

[thedoyler]

It wasnt bray that did it it was the people pushing for the new league who sanctioned these 'studies' only reason bray was mentioned is because i support them and i was trying to find out what they saw for our club in the future if the aforementioned league goes ahead. Speaking from a neutral point of view i could see an increase in attendances for a short while then it would tail off like the setanta cup attendances seem to have I mean would you travel into dalyer to see Bohs v cliftonville sooner than bohs v lets say...sligo? Probably not.

[4tothefloor]

An AIL league is not going to work with the current situation in Irish football. Why? Well because

(a) Most of the 'elite' EL clubs are from Dublin
(b) Beyond Linfield, Cliftonville and Glentoran, the IL has jack sh*t to offer
(c) A lot of EL clubs are in a mess and NEED to see out the FAI's 5 year participation agreement including 65% restriction on wages, in order to get their house in order.
(d) There is no point in even thinking about an AIL unless clubs like Galway, Limerick, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Dundalk etc are involved at the top table. Because otherwise it will not be an All Ireland League. EVERY club in the EL should be involved in any discussions or plans, not just the Dublin clubs or the clubs who don't fancy the FAI's participation agreement or wage cap.

In any case, there will be no AIL without the FAI or the IL's permission, because without their agreement there would be no European football to qualify for. So they can talk all they like, and present what they want, but it's going nowhere unless the associations back it. And the associations will not back it unless they control it and it includes the likes of the aforementioned clubs above :ball:

[Graemerz]

Ive heard 2 different proposals from those behind it: (i). Two 10 or 12 team divisions comprising of teams from both countries with the likes of bohs, drogs, linfield and glentoran in the premier and a first division with bray, ucd and dungannon.

(ii). The second option is an interesting one, interesting because it adopts the regional method of american sports. There would be regional leagues with the winners advancing to the next stage a la MLS, with the hopes that the likes of Cork V Waterford, Drogheda v Dundalk and Finn Harps v Derry would pull in the crowds. There would be a North, East, West and South. The stages beyond that hadnt been discussed as this was only an idea on the table. But market research done had showed at the last Bray v UCD game that UCD only brought 15 fans so that is kind of turning them off that idea. What does everyone think?

Excellent. They could play Armagh City and the gate could be a grand total of 22. Armagh City brought 7 to Windsor last week. :rolleyes:

[A face]

There will be a window of opportunity in 2009 for the AIL to go ahead as that's when the current participation agreement enables it (i thought it was longer but thats what i hear)

The current eight clubs and Linfield and Glentoran is basically whats been looked at for the new league, and with Linfield and Glentoran the standard will be better no matter whats said. They seem to be the people behind it.

There is huge investment available if this goes ahead, THE best i have ever heard about in all my time supporting this league. Clubs will not walk away from this as the prize money will dwarf anything thats there at the moment and there will be TV money in there too. Money will call the shots.

They are looking at ways around the European situation and there seem to be 'positive solutions' available. Dont know anymore on that.

There is huge work going on behind the scenes from what i gather and that will continue. Not saying it will happen but it will come close at the very least, and if that kicks the FAI up the ass to improve their own package then everyone wins. FAI will have to work damn hard to improve the current situation by the time the decision comes into play if they are going to be able to convince clubs to stay with the current situation, so we should be alot happening on that front i'd say.

The FAI, imo have been doing alot of the right things in the last few years so its not all bad, they just need to keep it going and ensure it all gets better. If they can nail down the TV situation this year and next and raise the profile then that could be a huge advantage for them. If clubs can get sponsorship locally easier that they have been doing as a result of the exposure then it'll be a huge point scored for them.

[GavinZac]

(d) There is no point in even thinking about an AIL unless clubs like Galway, Limerick, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Dundalk etc are involved at the top table. Because otherwise it will not be an All Ireland League. EVERY club in the EL should be involved in any discussions or plans, not just the Dublin clubs or the clubs who don't fancy the FAI's participation agreement or wage cap.Eh, no? Why would they care about bloody athlone who might not even make this season, let alone an AIL

[Billy Lord]

An AIL league is not going to work with the current situation in Irish football. Why? Well because

(a) Most of the 'elite' EL clubs are from Dublin
(b) Beyond Linfield, Cliftonville and Glentoran, the IL has jack sh*t to offer
(c) A lot of EL clubs are in a mess and NEED to see out the FAI's 5 year participation agreement including 65% restriction on wages, in order to get their house in order.
(d) There is no point in even thinking about an AIL unless clubs like Galway, Limerick, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Dundalk etc are involved at the top table. Because otherwise it will not be an All Ireland League. EVERY club in the EL should be involved in any discussions or plans, not just the Dublin clubs or the clubs who don't fancy the FAI's participation agreement or wage cap.

In any case, there will be no AIL without the FAI or the IL's permission, because without their agreement there would be no European football to qualify for. So they can talk all they like, and present what they want, but it's going nowhere unless the associations back it. And the associations will not back it unless they control it and it includes the likes of the aforementioned clubs above :ball:

While I wouldn't agree 100% with what you say, that's a fine post. A well-rolled and spun ball of snot will never become a tasty piece of carrot cake.
If our clubs want the general public to take them seriously they must first take themselves seriously rather than look (yet again) for some vogueish panacea.

[pineapple stu]

A well-rolled and spun ball of snot will never become a tasty piece of carrot cake.
What a delightful phrase!

Wonder did Genesis carry out the research into away fan numbers? I assume they also counted the 21 Bray usually bring to away Dublin games?

[Bald Student]

Wonder did Genesis carry out the research into away fan numbers?Apparently they read a message on here where someone said UCDD'd brought 15 fans and the FAI said, "Yeah, that sounds about right.".

[osarusan]

EVERY club in the EL should be involved in any discussions or plans, not just the Dublin clubs or the clubs who don't fancy the FAI's participation agreement or wage cap.

I agree with this point.



(d) There is no point in even thinking about an AIL unless clubs like Galway, Limerick, Sligo Rovers, Athlone Town, Dundalk etc are involved at the top table.
I disagree with this though. Limerick, at the moment at least, are in no position to be in the top division. We'd be destroyed every week. If and when an AIL is implemented, it should take the top clubs into the top league, regardless of the geographical location.

(My argument though, as always, is that the clubs not included in the top division cannot be just ignored)



In any case, there will be no AIL without the FAI or the IL's permission, because without their agreement there would be no European football to qualify for. And the associations will not back it unless they control it
This is the point that might kill the current version of the AIL stone dead. I can't see anybody investing a lot of money unless they get control of the league, and I can't see either the FAI or IFA giving up control of the league.

[Schumi]

Wonder did Genesis carry out the research into away fan numbers?
Apparently they read a message on here where someone said UCDD'd brought 15 fans and the FAI said, "Yeah, that sounds about right.".And, after comparing that to the numbers at a recent Cardiff Blues v Ospreys game in Wales in the Magners League, concluded that the Eircom League needs to do whatever the people who commissioned the research said.

[Graemerz]

If there was an All-Ireland league the only teams that would have a good travelling away support would be Linfield and Derry City. Fact!

[holidaysong]

If there was an All-Ireland league the only teams that would have a good travelling away support would be Linfield and Derry City. Fact!

Fact? :rolleyes: What about Dundalk FC?

[Spoons]

I doubt very much if Dundalk would even be considered to be honest...

[Louth4sam]

I doubt very much if Dundalk would even be considered to be honest...

Really? Well rumour has it that Dundalk and Rovers were invited to talks as well as the initial six Irish clubs.

[holidaysong]

I doubt very much if Dundalk would even be considered to be honest...

The point is that if Dundalk were in an AIL, I'm sure that we would have "a good travelling away support" as Graemerz put it.

[holidaysong]

Really? Well rumour has it that Dundalk and Rovers were invited to talks as well as the initial six Irish clubs.

Irish Independent - Saturday 29 December 2007


Aside from the original six Eircom League clubs, Shamrock Rovers and Dundalk have been invited into the fold...


http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/allisland-project-has--potential-for-success-1254523.html

[dcfcsteve]

In any case, there will be no AIL without the FAI or the IL's permission, because without their agreement there would be no European football to qualify for. So they can talk all they like, and present what they want, but it's going nowhere unless the associations back it. And the associations will not back it unless they control it and it includes the likes of the aforementioned clubs above :ball:

This is a very myopic view of a 'problem;' that I believe would be completely surmountable.

Firstly - let's not kid ourselves. European football is not all that important to Irish clubs (particularly in the IL). It's become more important in recent years because EL clubs have started doing better - but given the choice between a league where everyone will receive substantially more money than they currently do, with substantially bigger prize-money, TV coverage, league marketing etc, I can't see ANY club who would let that SLIP just to maintain the occasional shot at relative European glory. Even the likes of Cork - run by an investment vehicle - would take the pragmatic view of 'jam today' rather than the possibility of isolated European jam at some unspecificed point in the future

Secondly - it doesn't take a lot of imagination to appreciate that the IFA and FAI cannot exist with any credibility if they have lost control of senior football within their jurisdiction. This has happened to no other football association in the world (England is as close as we've come that I'm aware of). The FAI and IFA would be a laughing stock in world football if they were left with no senior club sunder their control. They cannot prevent clubs going off on their own - their only sanction is the European places (which, as stated above, are not sufficient sanction versus a much richer league). I have no doubt whatsoever that even if both Associations did withdraw European places as a penalty against any new AIL league, that such a situation simply would not last. the Associations would seek to come to some sort of arrangement to regain ostensible control over senior football in their jurisdiction. In fact - withdrawing European places could spell the death-knell for whichever jurisdiction does it. Say, for example, if only the IFA said it would withdraw European places and the FAI didn't. That would then see the AIL Irish league clubs eligible for nomination for the FAI's European places. Hey presto - you now have de-facto a single association for the whole island. Even if both withdrew Euro places, I could see one or other looking to negotiate their way back-in as a means of ensuring they triumphed in the battle for survival between the associations. Once the clubs split form the league, the race is on for survival between the FAI and the IFA. And I'm in no doubt that eitehr would be willign to cut a deal to the exclusioon of the other asocation if they thought that that was the way to guarantee their own long-term survival.

Regardless - I simply cannot see the IFA and FAI merrily existing in isolation from the major senior clubs in the island. Particularly if those clubs were thriving in a new league. Neither organisation wouold tolerate the erosion of its credibility in this way for very long. A solution would be reached, and any withdrawn European places would be returned.

[osarusan]

They cannot prevent clubs going off on their own - their only sanction is the European places (which, as stated above, are not sufficient sanction versus a much richer league).
Stated? It's a fact? "Argued" would be a better word.




Regardless - I simply cannot see the IFA and FAI merrily existing in isolation from the major senior clubs in the island. Particularly if those clubs were thriving in a new league. Neither organisation would tolerate the erosion of its credibility in this way for very long. A solution would be reached, and any withdrawn European places would be returned.

I wouldn't be as confident as you that the FAI or IFA would cave in before the clubs would, because I don't agree that they have more to lose. The idea of an AIL without European places thriving in isolation, to the point where both former governing bodies are cutting each other's throats to get involved is quite fanciful, if you ask me.

[A face]

I wouldn't be as confident as you that the FAI or IFA would cave in before the clubs would, because I don't agree that they have more to lose. The idea of an AIL without European places thriving in isolation, to the point where both former governing bodies are cutting each other's throats to get involved is quite fanciful, if you ask me.

I would be, granted it might take a few years but it would happen, there isn't a way that it couldn't happen if the AIL goes ahead.

This is on the understanding that either/both associations would want to progress and advance in the future. Its far easier to do it by siding with the clubs (if thats how you want to phrase it) than going it alone either as separate entities or as one unified association. Does anyone think that all this will go unnoticed by UEFA, that there will be no pressure on the associations to prevent a stand off/divide, that it will just be status quo, carry on as normal with no senior football under their jurisdiction. Come off it

The AIL is all the suppressed and deflected pushes that is now a shove whether they like it or not. No matter what you say, this effort will change Irish Football and its in everybody's interest that all the various parties acknowledge this, especially the stakeholders who feel they will have something to lose by this change unless they act in a timely manner.

You can run from something for miles and miles but if one of your feet is nailed to the ground, you'll still be in the same place, there will be no getting away from this.

[Poor Student]

Does anyone know what happened to the proposed merger between the Swiss and Austrian leagues?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_football/2949493.stm

[GavinZac]

Does anyone know what happened to the proposed merger between the Swiss and Austrian leagues?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_football/2949493.stm

Wasnt it put off because UEFA didnt want leagues merging? Different circumstances here altogether

[Poor Student]

Wasnt it put off because UEFA didnt want leagues merging? Different circumstances here altogether

No idea, I can't find anything about it but that article.

[LeviathanNI]

As I have said before on forums, I believe in order to help Irish football, on the whole, move forward, an AIL, properly administrated, sponsored and supported is the only option... I'm just not as confident as I was that it could happen without UEFA pressurising us to have one National team... and that is something I could never accept, nor my club.
If Dispensation was sought, and given, by UEFA/FIFA, then we could be onto something, but until then, this is all just pie in the sky... sadly.

[GavinZac]

No idea, I can't find anything about it but that article.

Have you tried searching in german? ;)

[4tothefloor]

Eh, no? Why would they care about bloody athlone who might not even make this season, let alone an AIL
Because what if the AIL falls flat on its face and flops? What makes you think that the premiership brigade are going to latch on to the new super league and thus give the sponsors value for their buck? The sponsors will only stick around if the league is an unqualified success, all this commercial backing is all about making profit from a potential product at the end of the day. So if it flops, and the sponsors leg it, what about all the other EL and IL clubs that weren't invited to the talks? What are they supposed to do in the meantime? Just leave them there to die? Irish football would be in a nice state then :rolleyes: In any case, a one division league would be a laughing stock and a load of b*****ks. It's fantasy stuff that will not work unless there is a proper structure from a Premier to a Division 2/3/4, and with both associations on board.


Regardless - I simply cannot see the IFA and FAI merrily existing in isolation from the major senior clubs in the island.
I agree with you, which is why I asked Fran Gavin those questions at the recent Abbotstown forum. He didn't like answering them, but he answered them. And when I asked him about what the FAI are doing NOW about the AIL, we were basically told that they were doing nothing and that this AIL idea was just an idea driven by a few clubs and some sponsors, and that at the end of the 5 year agreement his job was done and the clubs were free to do what they liked after that. Wouldn't exactly fill you with confidence. My opinion would be that the FAI should be getting involved now and looking at it NOW. Cos it certainly would be to their advantage (over the IFA) if they were involved in a league that had Linfield and Glentoran absconding to, but more importantly, they could structure it proprely so that it could be a proper multi-divisional league, a true AIL if you like.

[GavinZac]

what about all the other EL and IL clubs that weren't invited to the talks? What are they supposed to do in the meantime? Just leave them there to die? Irish football would be in a nice state then :rolleyes:
They would be stuck at semi-pro or amatuer level, with terrible fanbases, poor off the field management and little or no hope of ever bettering themselves.

So essentially, the same position they are in now.


In any case, a one division league would be a laughing stock and a load of b*****ks. Funny how you say that given that your own club is entirely unlikely to ever feature.

[dcfcsteve]

Because what if the AIL falls flat on its face and flops? What makes you think that the premiership brigade are going to latch on to the new super league and thus give the sponsors value for their buck? The sponsors will only stick around if the league is an unqualified success, all this commercial backing is all about making profit from a potential product at the end of the day. So if it flops, and the sponsors leg it, what about all the other EL and IL clubs that weren't invited to the talks? What are they supposed to do in the meantime? Just leave them there to die? Irish football would be in a nice state then :rolleyes: In any case, a one division league would be a laughing stock and a load of b*****ks. It's fantasy stuff that will not work unless there is a proper structure from a Premier to a Division 2/3/4, and with both associations on board.



Firstly - define "collapse". It would only collapse if all the clubs incvolved walked away from it. If sponsorship etc didn't live up to the original expectations, I still couldn't see clubs walking away unless it became a complete and utter red herring. So lopng as it was better thasn what we had it will remain in place. And let's face it - it wouldn't be hard to be better than what each league currentyl has - on so many levels. Rovers playing Linfield will always have more appeal than Rovers playing UCD, for example. So your talk of collapese is just plain daft. It would only collapse if clubs walked away from it once it had begun - which is an extremely unlikely end point.

Secondly - who's talking about a single division except you ?? :confused: Even the extremely limited info we've had on the AIL to-date is talking about promotion and relegation at some point. That therefore suggests a linked structure below. You're the only one who's talking about neagtives like that.

You're clearly anti the whole idea - whcih is fair enough (and I suspect influenced by the fact your own club is likely to be excluded from it, at least originally). But please don't let that colour your judgement to the point where your arguements dion't hold any water.

[MariborKev]

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2817

Reaction to the momentum the Plantinum One proposal is generating I'd say.

[Lux Interior]

If there was an All-Ireland league the only teams that would have a good travelling away support would be Linfield and Derry City. Fact!

:confused:

Given that Lnfield barely bring triple figures to European aways, why do you think up to 10 times as many will similarly bother their arses to travel to Galway.

Glentoran's away Setanta crowds have remained impressive, despite the awfulness endured on the pitch. With the exception of Derry away (last season), our away crowds have matched - and bettered - Linfield's.

"Fact!":rolleyes:

[garyderry]

:confused:

Given that Lnfield barely bring triple figures to European aways, why do you think up to 10 times as many will similarly bother their arses to travel to Galway.

Glentoran's away Setanta crowds have remained impressive, despite the awfulness endured on the pitch. With the exception of Derry away (last season), our away crowds have matched - and bettered - Linfield's.

"Fact!":rolleyes:

Yeah Glens have had a good away support in the Setanta,
Not so sure about your home support though

[4tothefloor]

Firstly - define "collapse". It would only collapse if all the clubs incvolved walked away from it. If sponsorship etc didn't live up to the original expectations, I still couldn't see clubs walking away unless it became a complete and utter red herring. So lopng as it was better thasn what we had it will remain in place. And let's face it - it wouldn't be hard to be better than what each league currentyl has - on so many levels. Rovers playing Linfield will always have more appeal than Rovers playing UCD, for example. So your talk of collapese is just plain daft. It would only collapse if clubs walked away from it once it had begun - which is an extremely unlikely end point.

Secondly - who's talking about a single division except you ?? :confused: Even the extremely limited info we've had on the AIL to-date is talking about promotion and relegation at some point. That therefore suggests a linked structure below. You're the only one who's talking about neagtives like that.
Firstly, this league is not going to grasp the imagination of the whole country if it just involves Dublin, Cork, Derry and Belfast! And unless it grasps the imagination of the whole country, IT IS a red herring. In other words, a waste of time.
Secondly, how many clubs have been invited to discussions? As far as I can see, just enough to create a one division league. What do you mean by 'at some point'? What kind of a mickey mouse botch of an attempt at a setting up a league is that? Either you do it right from the start with the correct structures, or you don't do it at all. But of course it would take our know-it-all clubs, who've mad a complete arse of their existence from their inception right up to today, to go about setting up a league with promotion and relegation and thus competitiveness as an after thought 'at some point' :rolleyes: :p


You're clearly anti the whole idea - whcih is fair enough (and I suspect influenced by the fact your own club is likely to be excluded from it, at least originally). But please don't let that colour your judgement to the point where your arguements dion't hold any water.
I am not anti the whole idea. I am pro AIL, but ONLY under the stewardship of the FAI and the IL, because frankly, our clubs wouldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. And I am pro AIL only on the basis that it is a properly structured 2/3/4 tier all Ireland league with proper structures throughout. You ask any EL/IL fan what their idea or definition of an AIL is, and it certainly won't be one run by the so called biggest clubs with scant regard for everyone else.

As regards your smart comment about Limerick, it wasn't so long ago that you lot had to get John Hume to drag u out of the s**t. If Derry were in that state right now and weren't flavour of the month, would you be in a position to be even at the top table of these discussions? No you would not. And look at Galway now. Three years ago or so they were a club in serious trouble. Now they've got a pretty impressive stadium, a sound financial footing and premier league football. And all done without the help of a politician. In three years time Limerick have a 7000 all seater stadium to look forward to, and one thats not costing us a cent. It'll probably be far superior to the Brandywell. So if I were you I'd get off that high horse of yours. Just because a club isn't flavour of the month does not mean you exclude them. It's 'football' people like you that make me sick...

Thankfully the FAI and IFA have come out with a statement today reiterating what I have been saying. NO AIL without them. So let's hope they interven sooner rather than later and get involved with the clubs from the outset.

[MariborKev]

4tothefloor,

You are hardly doing yourself any favours with an ill conceived rant.

Given Derry's geographical location, population centre and our unique history in Irish football, we are always going to be at the table when it comes to talks for an AIL.

No AIL is going to grasp the attention of the country, to think otherwise is ridiculous. The proposal needs to gain the attention and support of those in the population centres and the related sponsors.

Do you have any idea how many clubs have been invited to discussions? More than required for one league. Fact.

I don't know what you point regarding promotion and relegation is, as there is a defined structure in place in the Platinum Proposal. As regards thoughts of EL/IL fans on what an AIL means, I am sure plenty would be perfectly happy with the league of the biggest clubs, with scant regard for the rest as you say. Even the FAI are realistic enough to say that there will be a "realignment" of the clubs.

Like yourself I am anti the Platinum Proposal but the reality is an 2/3/4 tier AIL is completely unrealistical.

Make no mistake, given the shift in the position by the associations, they are feeling the heat of the Platinum Prosposal.

[dcfcsteve]

Firstly, this league is not going to grasp the imagination of the whole country if it just involves Dublin, Cork, Derry and Belfast! And unless it grasps the imagination of the whole country, IT IS a red herring. In other words, a waste of time.

There you go again ! You're completely ignoring what's happening, and instead creating your own very negative fantasy of the AIL proposals to justify your oppsition to it.

Look at the list of clubs involved in talks and mentioned re the proposal. Are the likes of Galway, Newry and Drogheda in any of the 4 cities you mentioned, to take but 3 examples ? Stick to the facts please, as you're thoroughly undermining any point you're trying to make by dwelling solely on fantasy.


Secondly, how many clubs have been invited to discussions? As far as I can see, just enough to create a one division league. What do you mean by 'at some point'? What kind of a mickey mouse botch of an attempt at a setting up a league is that? Either you do it right from the start with the correct structures, or you don't do it at all. But of course it would take our know-it-all clubs, who've mad a complete arse of their existence from their inception right up to today, to go about setting up a league with promotion and relegation and thus competitiveness as an after thought 'at some point' :rolleyes: :p

"As far as you can see" may be right indeed, as you seem bizarrely unwilling to open your eyes and actually recognise what is being proposed. Maribor has amply addressed this issue above.

As for a fan of Limerick football claiming that other clubs have "made a complete arse of their existence from their inception right up to today" ...! :D Brilliant - you've just written the epitaph for Limerick football. I've heard it all now - for everything else in life there's Mastercard....


I am not anti the whole idea. I am pro AIL, but ONLY under the stewardship of the FAI and the IL, because frankly, our clubs wouldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. And I am pro AIL only on the basis that it is a properly structured 2/3/4 tier all Ireland league with proper structures throughout. You ask any EL/IL fan what their idea or definition of an AIL is, and it certainly won't be one run by the so called biggest clubs with scant regard for everyone else.

It's dificult to read what you've written and then to accept that you're apparently not anti the AIL. I accept the validity of a desire to see an AIL run by both associations - but given their appalling track records over recent decades at running football on this island, it is disingenuous to think they'd do a better job than the clubs. Regardless - the proposal doing the rounds is NOT for the clubs to run an AIL, but Platinum One. Again - you're seeing a strange parallel proposal that doesn't reflect the actual reality but handily enough enables you to justify your opposition to the proposals.

Platinum One are a professional Sports Marketing company. If your opposition to the AIL proposals are led by a desire to see it run properly (and I'd question whether this is your genuine key concern), then surely you'd have to accept that a professional sports promotions company is highly likely to make a better run at an AIL than the combined 'talents' of the muppets of Merrion Square and the little-Ulsterites of Windsor Avenue ? the same people who have shown themselves incapable of doing anything significant to help Irish domestic football in recent decades.



As regards your smart comment about Limerick, it wasn't so long ago that you lot had to get John Hume to drag u out of the s**t. If Derry were in that state right now and weren't flavour of the month, would you be in a position to be even at the top table of these discussions? No you would not. And look at Galway now. Three years ago or so they were a club in serious trouble. Now they've got a pretty impressive stadium, a sound financial footing and premier league football. And all done without the help of a politician. In three years time Limerick have a 7000 all seater stadium to look forward to, and one thats not costing us a cent. It'll probably be far superior to the Brandywell. So if I were you I'd get off that high horse of yours. Just because a club isn't flavour of the month does not mean you exclude them. It's 'football' people like you that make me sick...

Ignoring your toys-out-of-pram petty rant, this gets us to the crux of your opposition to an AIL. The fact that Limerick aren't in it. A city the size of Limerick should be. But it would be absurd to pretend that there isn't something fundamentally wrong with football in Limerick that a town that size can't sustain a senior team for any length of time, let alone see one prosper. The same can not be said of Galway, Derry etc. Even the formerly turbulent Cork football has been a steady ship for over 20 years now. It's all very well talking about how good things will be for Limerick football in 'x' number of years time. Fine - come back then. But until then, Limerick football remains a basket case and can barely justify a First Division License, let alone a place in an AIL. That is a fact, and it's not my fault either, so please just deal with it and don't come crying to me about John Hume.


Thankfully the FAI and IFA have come out with a statement today reiterating what I have been saying. NO AIL without them. So let's hope they interven sooner rather than later and get involved with the clubs from the outset.

The one winner from the entire Platinum process will be Irish club football. Because it has given the 2 inert associations a huge kick up the arse. They now have to justify their authority over Irish football - which they've never had to before, and which they consequently never really could justify either.

If they were so secure in their posiotion re this proposal, then you can be damn sure it'd be business as usual for them. Instead - they're clearly rattled by what is happening, and they know they've got to lift their game or they'll be in serious trouble. So it doesn't take much reading between the lines to see that the actions of both associations show that they know damn well an AIL could happen without them. If the big clubs want to do it, and the financial backing is there, it will happen. I think you're clinging to mere hope if you think otherwise. Irish football has changed for good now. Thank fcuk and all...

[osarusan]

Platinum One are a professional Sports Marketing company. If your opposition to the AIL proposals are led by a desire to see it run properly, then surely you'd have to accept that a professional sports promotions company is highly likely to make a better run at an AIL than the combined 'talents' of the muppets of Merrion Square and the little-Ulsterites of Windsor Avenue ? the same people who have shown themselves incapable of doing anything significant to help Irish domestic football in recent decades.

I agree with the idea that they can run it better than the FAI and IFA.

However, the fact that their bottom line is profit is what concerns me. In some cases of course, improving the quality of football and generating profit play off each other. But as a company out to make profit, I'm concerned that they will focus more (or exclusively) of the clubs who can generate profit, and ignore those who don't. This would mean that the governing body itself would be biased in favour of the top teams. For all your criticism (much of it justified) of the current governing bodies, at least bias wasn't inherent in the way I'm worried it could be under Platinum One.

Also, the idea that there are thousands of fans out there who have stayed away from the eL just because of poor advertising is unlikely. People keep mentioning Linfield and Glentoran, but these teams will visit once a season (or maybe twice, depending on the league structure). The argument that "Rovers versus Linfield is better than Rovers versus UCD" may well be true, but the fact is that the majority of games will still be between the same clubs that play each other now. I'm skeptical that a game between St. Pats and Bohs (for example) will generate a much attendance than now, just because they are now playing in an AIL.

When Shelbourne played Deportivo, 25,000 people were at the game. It was great advertising for the eL - we saw an eL team competing at European level against a top European team. It was the best advertising you could ask for. The next Shelbourne league game had 1,500 or so at it. This is not conclusive proof of any kind, but does show that even with exposure, even with relative success (Shels got a draw that night), fans just weren't interested.



The one winner from the entire Platinum process will be Irish club football. Because it has given the 2 inert associations a huge kick up the arse. They now have to justify their authority over Irish football - which they've never had to before, and which they consequently never really could justify either.


I agree that Irish football could be the winner, but only if the AIL is controlled fairly by one or both of the FAI/IFA, who have been spurred into action by the threat posed by Platinum One.