View Full Version : AIL Update
EalingGreen
05/03/2008, 11:04 AM
Yeah. They'd better remember not to play any AIL games in Scandinavia during the winter or the whole thing is doomed;)
You miss my point. UEFA, through the offices of the IFA and FAI, will likely have very firm views on what such a League may or may not do. Therefore, they are liable and able to impose certain conditions before it will get their "blessing", including entry to CL, UEFA Cup and Inter-toto.
Therefore, it is possible that they may impose conditions which affect, or even prevent, the viability of the proposed new League. Alternatively, they may demand for the two Associations a level of authority and/or involvement which is not acceptable to the new League's proponents.
P.S. I don't really imagine that UEFA might require games to be played in Scandinavia in either winter or summer. Did you? :rolleyes:
HarpoJoyce
05/03/2008, 8:59 PM
You miss my point. UEFA, through the offices of the IFA and FAI, will likely have very firm views on what such a League may or may not do. Therefore, they are liable and able to impose certain conditions before it will get their "blessing", including entry to CL, UEFA Cup and Inter-toto.
Therefore, it is possible that they may impose conditions which affect, or even prevent, the viability of the proposed new League. Alternatively, they may demand for the two Associations a level of authority and/or involvement which is not acceptable to the new League's proponents.
P.S. I don't really imagine that UEFA might require games to be played in Scandinavia in either winter or summer. Did you? :rolleyes:
I appreciate what you mean but....
The AIL League League could do a 13th (Thirteenth) game swap with the Scandinavians. In both cultures it's an unlucky number.
For Scandinavians an unlucky Damien Richardson/Dermot Keely type character arrives late at the Christmas party ..or something. Anyway., it all ends in tears, its very very sad...I cried when I heard it first.
exiled_gufc_fan
08/03/2008, 9:57 AM
In Friday's City Tribune, Nick Leeson reckons an All Ireland League is "inevitable".
http://www.galwaynews.ie/3049-all-ireland-league-inevitable-says-leeson
passerrby
08/03/2008, 2:20 PM
the way them idiots run the league at the moment they are chasing clubs into the arms of platium one
Apparantly Limerick are being invited to the top table of the AIL, according to the rag that is the Indo anyway. If it's true then that's as much of a joke as Galway getting 'promoted' two years ago. I said it then and I'll say it now, that's not what football should be about, and will only heighten people's suspicions that LoI is a jokeshop
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/allireland-league-eyeing-up-franchise-for-limerick-1313193.html
Yep, it's franchise football. Like I said before- Platinum One is about money, nothing else.
cudsy1
11/03/2008, 10:03 AM
all this is dodgy as fook
EalingGreen
11/03/2008, 12:28 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/allireland-league-eyeing-up-franchise-for-limerick-1313193.html
Yep, it's franchise football. Like I said before- Platinum One is about money, nothing else.
And being franchise-based, there's no room/need for Promotion and Relegation. Instead, any expansion will surely come from Invitation to anyone who is prepared to put up the money to buy a new franchise, or to replace any team which drops out. (Presumably these latter would only do so for financial reasons i.e. going bust, rather than footballing reasons, since no matter how uncompetitive on the pitch, they wouldn't fear relegation).
I'm not averse to the idea of an AIL in principle, but if this is the model, then the sooner someone ties it in a bag and dumps it in the canal the better! :mad:
passerrby
11/03/2008, 1:53 PM
I'm not averse to the idea of an AIL in principle, but if this is the model, then the sooner someone ties it in a bag and dumps it in the canal the better! :mad:
well said that man..methinks the wheels on the derry/st pats superbus are coming off
GavinZac
11/03/2008, 2:04 PM
Apparantly Limerick are being invited to the top table of the AIL, according to the rag that is the Indo anyway. If it's true then that's as much of a joke as Galway getting 'promoted' two years ago. I said it then and I'll say it now, that's not what football should be about, and will only heighten people's suspicions that LoI is a jokeshop
:confused: Limerick 37 bypassed how many divisions to slot right into the first division? is that any less franchise football than the selections the FAI made recently or any inclusion of limerick in an AIL?
Lim till i die
11/03/2008, 2:06 PM
Limerick 37
Happens all the time in Italy.
Build a bridge Gav, etc. etc.
:confused: Limerick 37 bypassed how many divisions to slot right into the first division? is that any less franchise football than the selections the FAI made recently or any inclusion of limerick in an AIL?
Run along Gavin no-one cares
passerrby
11/03/2008, 2:15 PM
when did limerick get a bypass
Lim till i die
11/03/2008, 2:16 PM
when did limerick get a bypass
Coming in 2011 I believe.
Watch. This. Space.
GavinZac
11/03/2008, 2:20 PM
Run along Gavin no-one cares
No really, how is this selection process different from the one performed recently by the FAI or the one that allowed L37 entry to the ELOI? Why is one franchise football and the other (arguably) not?
Lim till i die
11/03/2008, 2:23 PM
Limerick 37 bypassed how many divisions to slot right into the first division?
To answer your question: None.
At the time the First Division was the lowest rung on the LoI pyramid.
Happens all the time in Italy.
Build a bridge Gav, etc. etc.
No really, how is this selection process different from the one performed recently by the FAI or the one that allowed L37 entry to the ELOI? Why is one franchise football and the other (arguably) not?
What LtiD said, now will you run along?
passerrby
11/03/2008, 2:28 PM
No really, how is this selection process different from the one performed recently by the FAI or the one that allowed L37 entry to the ELOI? Why is one franchise football and the other (arguably) not?
the fai although appearing incompatant at times is about inclusion while the platinum one is about exclusion
GavinZac
11/03/2008, 2:35 PM
To answer your question: None.
At the time the First Division was the lowest rung on the LoI pyramid.
Pyramid? :D
Anyway, this would be the lowest rung on the AIL pyramid, if things posted above are to be believed. Not that I approve of any such developments as teams being picked purely for their geographic location, but it is strange to see someone who has benefit from such in the recent past to complain this without recognising the equivalent "elitism" or "exclusion" of the ELOI.
Lim till i die
11/03/2008, 2:37 PM
Pyramid? :D
Easily Amused??
Anyway, this would be the lowest rung on the AIL pyramid,
There's that word again :D :D
Pyramid? :D
Anyway, this would be the lowest rung on the AIL pyramid, if things posted above are to be believed. Not that I approve of any such developments as teams being picked purely for their geographic location, but it is strange to see someone who has benefit from such in the recent past to complain this without recognising the equivalent "elitism" or "exclusion" of the ELOI.
Weren't you just proven wrong about that claim of yours?
Lim till i die
11/03/2008, 2:40 PM
but it is strange to see someone who has benefit from such in the recent past to complain this without recognising the equivalent "elitism" or "exclusion" of the ELOI.
Birdseye Potato Waffles, they're waffly versatile :rolleyes:
WoodquayBoy
11/03/2008, 2:55 PM
:confused: Limerick 37 bypassed how many divisions to slot right into the first division? is that any less franchise football than the selections the FAI made recently or any inclusion of limerick in an AIL?
Why are you wasting your time?
When it is other clubs who are 'promoted' on non footballing issues, like my beloved United for example, they are fair game, but when you mention that, rather than invite an existing club to replace the Limerick outfit of Danny Drew, they went and 'promoted' a new entity ahead of every other existing club, without them kicking a ball (and at least United did compete the season they were, ahem, 'promoted') you are being stupid.
I know, I know, here comes the rantings of Jebus, but just wanted to make that point . . . .
GavinZac
11/03/2008, 2:58 PM
Weren't you just proven wrong about that claim of yours?
What claim? Is the eircom league of Ireland not a selective, exclusive league which picks its clubs for the most part on the basis of their merits as a 'franchise' than any particular measurement of footballing skill? Such an exclusive club, for instance, that in the past 'club members' have had the right to exclude another club by vote, or in the present, the National Association can pick and choose its competitors at will?
I'm not saying that its a good thing but its a strange thing to gloss over and then complain about similar actions elsewhere.
In all fairness, given that Limerick is touted as being in the AIL I think the L37 guys are taking a fairly consistent line. Limerick 37 coming into being was more of a scheme to get Danny Drew out than anything else from what I can tell, and a fair few of the L37 lads have made it clear that they thought it wasn't right.
WoodquayBoy
11/03/2008, 3:17 PM
In all fairness, given that Limerick is touted as being in the AIL I think the L37 guys are taking a fairly consistent line. Limerick 37 coming into being was more of a scheme to get Danny Drew out than anything else from what I can tell, and a fair few of the L37 lads have made it clear that they thought it wasn't right.
I hold my hands up, admit my error and apologise if that is the case, I just thought this latest pontificating was a bit rich considering the recent history of football in Limerick, that's all
osarusan
11/03/2008, 3:20 PM
I hold my hands up, admit my error and apologise if that is the case, I just thought this latest pontificating was a bit rich considering the recent history of football in Limerick, that's all
I think you missed this post.
Apparantly Limerick are being invited to the top table of the AIL, according to the rag that is the Indo anyway. If it's true then that's as much of a joke as Galway getting 'promoted' two years ago. I said it then and I'll say it now, that's not what football should be about, and will only heighten people's suspicions that LoI is a jokeshop
Best post on the AIL proposals so far-
I'm not averse to the idea of an AIL in principle, but if this is the model, then the sooner someone ties it in a bag and dumps it in the canal the better!
Lim till i die
11/03/2008, 3:24 PM
I hold my hands up, admit my error and apologise if that is the case, I just thought this latest pontificating was a bit rich considering the recent history of football in Limerick, that's all
Whoosh.............
GavinZac
11/03/2008, 4:02 PM
I think you missed this post.
While jebus is being consistent in the face of huge potential benefits for his club, I don't think anyone has denied that. The inconsistency, with every ELOI fan in this thread that is guilty of it, lies in decrying the selection process for the AIL as "franchising" without recognising that (almost?) every club in the eircom league is currently there either because they were elected to it or because the FAI cherry picked them to be. Opposition to the AIL would be better placed against claims of it as a panacea for Irish football or as unworkable in terms of the season cross over, than because of its "exclusiveness". Indeed, I'd imagine with the clean-slate attitudes they have, the 'organisers' would look at that as a sales point rather than an issue!
passerrby
11/03/2008, 5:39 PM
lets face it gavin we can argue the legal and moral aspects till we are blue in the face but the opposition comes from the clubs who will be disinfranchised ,this ail was set up to cater for the interests of a few select clubs and nothing will convince me otherwise.
While jebus is being consistent in the face of huge potential benefits for his club, I don't think anyone has denied that. The inconsistency, with every ELOI fan in this thread that is guilty of it, lies in decrying the selection process for the AIL as "franchising" without recognising that (almost?) every club in the eircom league is currently there either because they were elected to it or because the FAI cherry picked them to be. Opposition to the AIL would be better placed against claims of it as a panacea for Irish football or as unworkable in terms of the season cross over, than because of its "exclusiveness". Indeed, I'd imagine with the clean-slate attitudes they have, the 'organisers' would look at that as a sales point rather than an issue!
When Limerick 37 were 'promoted' to take the First Division there was no league below it. The League had a space to fill, so we didn't take anyones spot, L37 wanted that spot and they were put in at the lowest rung on the LoI ladder at the time as the most able of the clubs who applied. How would that compare with Limerick 37 being promoted to the top division of a series of All Ireland leagues in place of a number of more deserving teams? And that is even leaving aside that it was the FAI's intention to replace one Limerick team with another from the start
sullanefc
11/03/2008, 10:38 PM
When Limerick 37 were 'promoted' to take the First Division there was no league below it. The League had a space to fill, so we didn't take anyones spot, L37 wanted that spot and they were put in at the lowest rung on the LoI ladder at the time as the most able of the clubs who applied. How would that compare with Limerick 37 being promoted to the top division of a series of All Ireland leagues in place of a number of more deserving teams? And that is even leaving aside that it was the FAI's intention to replace one Limerick team with another from the start
That just proves that Limerick 37 is a franchise, which I have no problem with by the way, and you are contradicting yourself. If another team from Dublin or a small team from Junior football wanted to apply, I doubt they would have been accepted instead of L37.
jebus
11/03/2008, 10:48 PM
That just proves that Limerick 37 is a franchise, which I have no problem with by the way, and you are contradicting yourself. If another team from Dublin or a small team from Junior football wanted to apply, I doubt they would have been accepted instead of L37.
Alright, allowing any club to exist is a franchise, but I still don't see how allowing Limerick 37 into the bottom rung of the LoI to take up a vacant spot is the same thing as promoting Limerick 37 to the top division of an AIL at the expense of quite a few clubs
GavinZac
11/03/2008, 11:20 PM
Alright, allowing any club to exist is a franchise, but I still don't see how allowing Limerick 37 into the bottom rung of the LoI to take up a vacant spot is the same thing as promoting Limerick 37 to the top division of an AIL at the expense of quite a few clubs
Its not the same thing, obviously. Its marginally more cringeworthy than including Dundalk or Galway (cough) in a Premier division. However, because such precedents are already set, and football on this island has already, since the 80s, been less about actual ability and more about suitability as a 'representative of an area' for the league (prime example, of course, being our own existence) ... you're arguing on emotive, subjective grounds about what is franchise football and what isn't, the arguments lack the clear definition of other arguments such as "the NI teams are rubbish and the novelty would wear off quickly" or "it introduces too many complications in terms of the football associations and european representation"
jebus
11/03/2008, 11:27 PM
Its not the same thing, obviously. Its marginally more cringeworthy than including Dundalk or Galway (cough) in a Premier division. However, because such precedents are already set, and football on this island has already, since the 80s, been less about actual ability and more about suitability as a 'representative of an area' for the league (prime example, of course, being our own existence) ... you're arguing on emotive, subjective grounds about what is franchise football and what isn't, the arguments lack the clear definition of other arguments such as "the NI teams are rubbish and the novelty would wear off quickly" or "it introduces too many complications in terms of the football associations and european representation"
That's all I wanted to hear :) I realise this AIL is probably going to happen, and that it has it's benefits, and I also realise that football competition on this island has often not been about what goes on on the pitch, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it
WoodquayBoy
12/03/2008, 7:17 AM
Whoosh.............
Not a case of 'whoosh' at all, I understand your point on the AIL, you missed mine on the fact L37 were in the national league at all, a franchise was ceated in Limerick to replace a franchise, so as subsequent posters said, there is history on this whole franchise thing.
Anyway, I also agree with the suggestion that the proposed league, as it stands, stinks to high heaven, and it won't be much of an all Ireland league with 2 - at most - Irish Legaue clubs
jebus
12/03/2008, 12:35 PM
Not a case of 'whoosh' at all, I understand your point on the AIL, you missed mine on the fact L37 were in the national league at all, a franchise was ceated in Limerick to replace a franchise, so as subsequent posters said, there is history on this whole franchise thing.
Lord God, how many more times does this need to be said, allowing a club into the bottom rung of the LoI is not the same as putting a club in the top division of the AIL/LoI. If you think all football clubs in national leagues are franchises then fair enough, but the only thing comparable with putting a Limerick team in the AIL top division without having earned it in footballing terms is Galway being put in the LoI Premier League without having earned it in footballing terms, so can we leave this 'every clubs a franchise' thing behind
Dodge
12/03/2008, 12:36 PM
Lord God, how many more times does this need to be said, allowing a club into the bottom rung of the LoI is not the same as putting a club in the top division of the AIL/LoI. If you think all football clubs in national leagues are franchises then fair enough, but the only thing comparable with putting a Limerick team in the AIL top division without having earned it in footballing terms is Galway being put in the LoI Premier League without having earned it in footballing terms, so can we leave this franchise thing behind
Why leave it behind when both of you are right?
jebus
12/03/2008, 12:52 PM
Why leave it behind when both of you are right?
Because whether football clubs in essence are franchises is not the issue, I mean do any of you actually like football as a sport? I can't see why people who claim to be football supporters don't see the problem with this
Dodge
12/03/2008, 12:59 PM
Because whether football clubs in essence are franchises is not the issue, I mean do any of you actually like football as a sport? I can't see why people who claim to be football supporters don't see the problem with this
Thats because like me you're a stubborn **** who always thinks he's right.
I've no problem with franchises in cork or limerick or wexford as we need the country covered. I've also no problems with an AIL with the cream of each league represented, as long as promotion and relegation is a part of it.
I've also no problems with an AIL with the cream of each league represented, as long as promotion and relegation is a part of it.
And St Pats obviously.........
WoodquayBoy
12/03/2008, 1:08 PM
allowing a club into the bottom rung of the LoI is not the same as putting a club in the top division of the AIL/LoI.
Why is it not the same, because it involves your precious Limerick and so to think otherwise would hold you up as a hypocrite? It doesn't matter what level of rung you lot were shoveled in at, there was no open competition for the slot, no invites offered, one struggling joke of an entity in the 'sports capital of Ireland' (snort) was brought in to replace another - a club with no football pedigree was sudenly catapulted onto the national scene.
Look, you think one thing, I think the other, neither of us are going to change our minds, so we'll leave it at that
Why is it not the same, because it involves your precious Limerick and so to think otherwise would hold you up as a hypocrite? It doesn't matter what level of rung you lot were shoveled in at, there was no open competition for the slot, no invites offered, one struggling joke of an entity in the 'sports capital of Ireland' (snort) was brought in to replace another - a club with no football pedigree was sudenly catapulted onto the national scene.
Look, you think one thing, I think the other, neither of us are going to change our minds, so we'll leave it at that
Galway boy gets offended, big surprise, even when I'm holding Limerick to the same standards as Galway you lot just can't leave it go can you. If you can't see what the difference is between allowing a club in at the bottom, as opposed to fast-tracking them to the top then there's no hope for you in society in general to be honest, cause that's just plain idiocy.
I've no problem with franchises in cork or limerick or wexford as we need the country covered. I've also no problems with an AIL with the cream of each league represented, as long as promotion and relegation is a part of it.
But at what point will that stop? Say the AIL decide Cork City FC aren't all that they can be as a football club, would it be just for them to throw Cork City FC out of the league and replace them with Cork Rovers FC (say)? What about if they decide Bohs and Rovers would be better served as one entity to push the AIL forward in Europe and they tell both clubs to merge or be kicked out and replaced with Bohemian Rovers? What if Linfield were getting the biggest attendences in the AIL but had a bad year and were relegated, would the AIL decide that they don't want Cobh Ramblers (say) taking their place as they don't bring as much to the table as Linfield and so deny Cobh their promotion?
WoodquayBoy
12/03/2008, 1:55 PM
Why get personal?
You say there is a difference I say there are similarities
Why get personal?
You say there is a difference I say there are similarities
Sorry I mistook your last post as something other than the usual drivel Galway fans shovel around here when I'm involved in a thread. I didn't realise calling me a hypocrite and insulting my club wasn't personal. I still think if you can't see the difference between Limerick 37 being granted an open spot in the bottom division of the LoI, and Limerick 37 being jumped ahead of established clubs to the top division of an AIL then you're a moron.
For the record, the FAI did invite applicants for the two open positions going into last season's First Division. Given that Mervue and the rest of the newcomers in A Championship weren't deemed suitable for a First Division licence this time around I fail to see how they could have been last year. So the FAI must have decided that since the two most suitable applicants for the First Division were the two who achieved the licence then they should be put in the First Division, make any more sense now?
WoodquayBoy
12/03/2008, 2:45 PM
Sorry I mistook your last post as something other than the usual drivel Galway fans shovel around here when I'm involved in a thread . . . .
Apology accepted, now lets move on
But at what point will that stop? Say the AIL decide Cork City FC aren't all that they can be as a football club, would it be just for them to throw Cork City FC out of the league and replace them with Cork Rovers FC (say)? What about if they decide Bohs and Rovers would be better served as one entity to push the AIL forward in Europe and they tell both clubs to merge or be kicked out and replaced with Bohemian Rovers? What if Linfield were getting the biggest attendences in the AIL but had a bad year and were relegated, would the AIL decide that they don't want Cobh Ramblers (say) taking their place as they don't bring as much to the table as Linfield and so deny Cobh their promotion?
What would make you think that this could happen? And what would make you think it couldn't happen in the current set up? Dublin city weren't elected into the league, they just assumed a place (new club etc). Limerick's old club got shafted out and replaced by L37. Galway promoted on the strength of a DVD? Even the bizarre splitting of the old NI one league system was a joke.
You're thinking the AIL can't be better than the current system, I'm thinking it can't be any worse.
passerrby
12/03/2008, 3:07 PM
You're thinking the AIL can't be better than the current system, I'm thinking it can't be any worse.
in fact it could be much worse however we proberly should hold our fire until we see the final proposal but whats on offer at the moment is pure crap
EalingGreen
12/03/2008, 3:09 PM
I've no problem with franchises in cork or limerick or wexford as we need the country covered. I've also no problems with an AIL with the cream of each league represented, as long as promotion and relegation is a part of it.
The problem is that Franchising on geographical and/or financial grounds is fundamentally incompatible with Promotion & Relegation.
Let us say Cork or Limerick are included essentially in order to "cover the country", rather than for their footballing prowess. At the end of the first season or two, they will get relegated, to be replaced by better footballing sides, even though the promoted sides may come from a region already well served.
For example, for the opening season of the AIL, franchising might restrict Belfast to two clubs - let's say Linfield and Cliftonville (presently 1st and 2nd in NI). But the following season Glentoran (presently 3rd in NI) could very well get promoted from the (old) IL. Would they be denied their place, since the AIL League organisers might not want a 3rd Belfast side to replace e.g. Galway (the only Connacht team?)
In the end, you've got to accept that football is relatively more popular and successful in some towns/areas (e.g. Derry), and relatively less popular/successful in others (e.g. Limerick, even Cork).
Or at another level, if there were, say, 5 franchise places for Dublin and Belfast combined, I guess you'd have to split this 3-2 to Dublin.
However (and without meaning to be controversial), if you take a long term view, you could argue that Belfast is/was traditionally the 'soccer capital' of Ireland, not Dublin. Therefore, any artificial, non-footballing constraints imposed by franchising could serve only to suppress the "natural order" of things, such that a 3rd, underperforming Dublin side might be preserved at the expense of a 3rd, overperforming Belfast side.
As Mr. Spock might say, "It's football Jim, but not as we know it!" ;)
You're thinking the AIL can't be better than the current system, I'm thinking it can't be any worse.
In fairness the FAI have been in charge for one year, and bar the initial licensing fiasco I don't think they have made many mistakes. It was wrong of them to take out Limerick FC to get at Danny Drew, but to be honest Danny offered Limerick 37 the name of Limerick FC (for a fee of course), but the people who were then in charge of L37 thought it best to move away from the negativity surrounding LFC.
Besides that though they have negotiated this TV deal with RTE, which is a big advance for the league, and more importantly, are a completely independent organisation in charge, one who will try and best serve the league's needs. I fail to see how putting a profit driven buisness in charge of the league, it's clubs and their futures can be anything other than a step back
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.