Spotlight

[citizenerased]

CitizenErased is entitled to his opinion, just like anyone else. But when he seeks to back them up with assertions of "fact", which are palpably and demonstrably wrong, then his credibility is in tatters.

Aaron Hughes is from a Unionist background, his school did not play GAA, indeed he started out playing Boys Brigade football.

Neither is David Healy from a Nationalist background, nor is his father RC.

That said, none of the three has ever done or said anthing politically or religiously contentious in their life - at least as far as I've ever seen.

I strongly suspect CitizenErased has fallen into the old bigot's trap of judging people by their name. Pathetic.

P.S. David Healy's father is called "Clifford"; Aaron Hughes's former NI teammate Michael Hughes (no relation) is a Catholic from Larne and Chris Baird is a former GAA player from Rasharkin. Oh, and I'm told that Sammy Clingan is from Nationalist West Belfast. Names, eh?

Hold on here lads,,your calling me a biggot get real will you for god sake..how am i a biggot? explain please..get over yourselves..I only wrote what i was told by my mate ill get back to you on that lads when i talk to him....and id like to see pictures of healy drapped in a Union Jack which you claim you have...!!

NI Fans calling me a biggot, have to laugh at that one...

[jmurphyc]

Am try telling Neil Lennon that the religion is gone.

wake up lad its there and will be for while I see fans in the north burning a tricolour I think its ye who dont want them we welcome them

When was this tricolour burned? I think what the NI posters are saying is that this has largely been eradicated. I haven't seen the burning of a tricolour at a NI match recently.

[GavinZac]

When was this tricolour burned? I think what the NI posters are saying is that this has largely been eradicated. I haven't seen the burning of a tricolour at a NI match recently.A tricolour was burned at Windsor Park recently during Linfield v Cliftonville.

[Not Brazil]

Hold on here lads,,your calling me a biggot get real will you for god sake..how am i a biggot? explain please..get over yourselves..I only wrote what i was told by my mate ill get back to you on that lads when i talk to him....and id like to see pictures of healy drapped in a Union Jack which you claim you have...!!


Your "mate" is a liar.

You presented as fact, things that are, in fact, not true - regarding the background of Messrs Healy and Hughes.

I believe that telling lies like that, in order to demonise the Northern Ireland fanbase, is bigoted.

Therefore, I believe you are a bigot.

I didn't say that I had any photos of Healy drapped in a Union Flag (there are relatively few of these at Northern Ireland matches nowadays), but he has been photographed on many occassions holding the Ulster Banner ie. the flag with the red hand - the one YOU claimed he refused to hold after the Spain game.

David is a lifetime Linfield fan too - hopefully EG wont hold that against him.:)

[Not Brazil]

A tricolour was burned at Windsor Park recently during Linfield v Cliftonville.

And Linfield Football Club, having identified at least one of the culprits, will be taking decisive action on that count.

Nothing to do with Northern Ireland games tho.

[jmurphyc]

A tricolour was burned at Windsor Park recently during Linfield v Cliftonville.

Okay, well fair enough then. But I asked about a NI match. None of these fans will necessarily be at the NI games.

[Not Brazil]

Am try telling Neil Lennon that the religion is gone.


Try reading Neil Lennon's glowing tributes of the changes made by Northern Ireland fans in recent years.

If Lennon himself can recognise and acknowledge the changes made, it says a lot that those who hold him up as the "proof" cannot do likewise.

[GavinZac]

And Linfield Football Club, having identified at least one of the culprits, will be taking decisive action on that count.

Nothing to do with Northern Ireland games tho.

Just explaining what the other guy was talking about.

Off-topic, In fairness the photograph of the guy holding it up is extremely clear so there would be no reason not to "take decisive action" - would would presumably be identifying him, banning him from games, and forwarding his identity and the evidence to the PSNI for insulting and threatening behaviour or however that would be classed under the UK system. However, one regrets that no punishment can be given out to the 50 or so characters surrounding this guy, most of whom were giggling like schoolgirls. That, that such an act was acceptable and 'funny', is more worrying than one tool burning some flag. [/rant]

[citizenerased]

Aye - but it's still integral.:D

The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

ha ha ha...Why are you the only team from 'Great Britain' that dont have their own anthem?What yer obsession with the Royal family?

This is Ireland and always will be, the fact that its under political partition means nothing to true Irishmen...and Darren Gibson as a true Irishman should be allowed play for the country that represents this ideal with the national anthem to accompany it. One Country..One Team...One Anthem

Saying all that i have nothing against the religion of people up north, my flatmate is a mad NI fan, a protestant and goes to all the matches..and he will tell you im not a bigot...might not see eye to eye on politics or on international eligibility but i aint no bigot..come back with better arguments please!

[GavinZac]

ha ha ha...Why are you the only team from 'Great Britain' that dont have their own anthem?They aren't from Great Britain. Great Britain is an island. They don't have an anthem as they havent fought a war, which is when anthems tend to get written.

What yer obsession with the Royal family?Her Madge is their head of state.


This is Ireland and always will beIts Ireland because we call it so. The next people inhabitting it could return to calling it Hibernia, or maybe make up something new. Gnarknar, maybe?

the fact that its under political partition means nothing to true Irishmen...and Darren Gibson as a true Irishman should be allowed play for the country that represents this ideal with the national anthem to accompany it. One Country..One Team...One AnthemYou don't like democracy, no?


Saying all that i have nothing against the religion of people up northYes you do. You don't think they're Irish, while im sure most of them would realise that been born on the island of ireland makes you irish, by definition of what "irish" is.
my flatmate is a mad NI fan, a protestant and goes to all the matches..and he will tell you im not a bigot...might not see eye to eye on politics or on international eligibility but i aint no bigot..come back with better arguments please!You've made all the arguments yourself, son.

[Not Brazil]

Just explaining what the other guy was talking about.

Off-topic, In fairness the photograph of the guy holding it up is extremely clear so there would be no reason not to "take decisive action" - would would presumably be identifying him, banning him from games, and forwarding his identity and the evidence to the PSNI for insulting and threatening behaviour or however that would be classed under the UK system.

Nothing akin to the Football Offences Act in Northern Ireland GavinZac, so therefore no charges can be pressed against those burning the flag - it is important that such legislation is introduced in Northern Ireland.

The "insulting behaviour" did not just come from one set of supporters on the evening.

All of this has nothing to do with citizenerased lies.

[Not Brazil]

ha ha ha...Why are you the only team from 'Great Britain' that dont have their own anthem?What yer obsession with the Royal family?

This is Ireland and always will be, the fact that its under political partition means nothing to true Irishmen...and Darren Gibson as a true Irishman should be allowed play for the country that represents this ideal with the national anthem to accompany it. One Country..One Team...One Anthem

Saying all that i have nothing against the religion of people up north, my flatmate is a mad NI fan, a protestant and goes to all the matches..and he will tell you im not a bigot...might not see eye to eye on politics or on international eligibility but i aint no bigot..come back with better arguments please!

Is your school off with the cold weather, or something?:rolleyes:

Sorry to break this to you, but I'm as proudly Irish as you are.;)

[ifk101]

This is Ireland and always will be, the fact that its under political partition means nothing to true Irishmen...and Darren Gibson as a true Irishman should be allowed play for the country that represents this ideal with the national anthem to accompany it. One Country..One Team...One Anthem

As I'm somebody that doesn't want unity with Northern Ireland, I'm going to have to place a sticker on my passport highlighting that I'm not a true Irishman. :D

[shakermaker1982]

not this again lads......

[Not Brazil]

ha ha ha...Why are you the only team from 'Great Britain' that dont have their own anthem?What yer obsession with the Royal family?


Northern Ireland is not in Great Britain, but I do wish we had a new "sporting" anthem for our international football matches.

I'm happy enough with my "National" Anthem tho - that of the United Kingdom Of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

I don't have an obsession with the Royal Family - they aren't all that relevent in my day to day life, to be honest. Some of them I quite like, others I have very little time for at all.

[EalingGreen]

Am try telling Neil Lennon that the religion is gone.


None of the NI fans who post on this site has ever denied that there still exists a sectarian element to our support which remains to be eradicated. At the same time, as we continue to put clear blue water between us and the excesses of the past, it is becoming increasingly tiresome to hear people like you bleat on about past events (Lennon was years ago now), as though they were still current.

For the record, at the IFA Football For All Awards last February (that's less than 12 months ago), this is what Neil Lennon himself said in a specially recorded message which he sent along:

"Fans like Stewart (an award winner) are unsung heroes who have been brave enough to challenge sectarianism and who have actively created a more fun, safe and family orientated atmosphere at international games. (They) have made the atmosphere at Northern Ireland football games the envy of fans across not only Europe but world football. I would personnally like to thank them for efforts."



wake up lad its there and will be for while I see fans in the north burning a tricolour I think its ye who dont want them we welcome them

We don't want any people with outdated and offensive values at our games, whether they be of the sort you mention above, or those who spout utter tripe about things of which they clearly have little knowledge, on message boards like this. Each is equally antidiluvian and in denial from what I can see.

P.S. You might want to try a little bit of punctuation in your posts. Unless, of course, you are conducting some sort of subversive protest against "the Queen's English"...:rolleyes:

[EalingGreen]

Your "mate" is a liar.
David is a lifetime Linfield fan too - hopefully EG wont hold that against him.:)

Impossible! Sure isn't his Da a fenian and his whole family Nationalists? My mate told me that, so it must be true...;)

[jmurphyc]

not this again lads......

This one's different from the rest :rolleyes:.

[co. down green]

"Fans like Stewart (an award winner) are unsung heroes who have been brave enough to challenge sectarianism and who have actively created a more fun, safe and family orientated atmosphere at international games. (They) have made the atmosphere at Northern Ireland football games the envy of fans across not only Europe but world football. I would personnally like to thank them for efforts."

EG

Stop trying to give 'Not Brazil' a big head ;)

[boovidge]

ha ha ha...Why are you the only team from 'Great Britain' that dont have their own anthem?


England don't either

[lopez]

England don't eitherIt's GSTGL. She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain. If she was Queen of Britain she'd QE1 not QE2. English and British culture and history is so intertwined that I doubt that you could really distinguish between an English and British anthem. Hence too what our Northern friends, if the would allow me to term, 'superprods' - don't want to be called a bigot - of the Billy Hutchinson, Johnny Adair, Grugg Greig type supporting England. The two things are to them interchangeable.

[citizenerased]

They aren't from Great Britain. Great Britain is an island. .
No need to be pednatic you know what i meant...united kingdom, britain..etc


They don't have an anthem as they havent fought a war, which is when anthems tend to get written.. Oh so what famous battle did wales win then when they penned The Land Of My Fathers. or scotland when the sing flower of scotland.. ?shot yourself in the foot there..



Her Madge is their head of state... She is also the head of state for wales and scotland, but they dont bleet on about it the whole time..'Her madge' ur havin a laugh zac..



Its Ireland because we call it so. The next people inhabitting it could return to calling it Hibernia, or maybe make up something new. Gnarknar, maybe?
You don't like democracy, no?... No ireland is the island of ireland..some NI fans despise being called Irish..democracy..have you done your history son? plantation is democracy? gerrmandering ?, civil rights violations?


Yes you do. You don't think they're Irish, while im sure most of them would realise that been born on the island of ireland makes you irish, by definition of what "irish" is. You've made all the arguments yourself, son.yeah i believe that but, SOME NI fans dont participate in that notion, they would rather be acknowledged as ulstermen , ulsterscotsmen or subjects of her majesty...

[citizenerased]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1451206,00.html


Get our teeth into that..obviously according to EGs logic this journo is a bigot also!!

[Hibernian]

P.S. You might want to try a little bit of punctuation in your posts. Unless, of course, you are conducting some sort of subversive protest against "the Queen's English"...:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Cheers for the english lesson. You sound just like my old school teacher fool of s*it

[EalingGreen]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1451206,00.html


Get our teeth into that..obviously according to EGs logic this journo is a bigot also!!

Henry McDonald is a perceptive and informed journalist, for whom I personally have a lot of time. I would never call him a "bigot" (or even "biggot"), if for no other reason than that he doesn't appear to make up lies or recall inaccurate and offensive tales told to him by a "mate".

As for what he wrote here, I prefer to take his report as a whole, including the bit where he wrote:
"The young Dubliner [O'Callaghan] was gracious a few days later on BBC's Talkback radio programme when he stressed that the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland fans were well-behaved and untainted by the sectarianism of the few"

Of course, O'Callaghan's considered words don't surprise me in the least, since it exactly reflects the behaviour of the 6,000 (genuine) NI fans with whom I went to Old Trafford for the match he is describing.

Consequently, I wasn't in the Bot. However, having seen an account which I trust by someone who was there, it seems that the overwhelming majority of people were having a great time - especially when the girl with the mighty bazookas finally "got them out for the lads" (and the TV cameras!) - only for the atmosphere to be temporarily spoiled when a couple of ****ed-up wee spides seized their opportunity to achieve their 15 seconds of fame by singing their sectarian filth. I say "temporarily" since, as I understand it, they were chucked out by the bouncers almost straightaway.

Anyhow, shouldn't you be researching the geneology, behaviour and background of the NI players, not the fans, seeing as how your previous posts on them have been so comprehensively dismantled?

Or were you hoping we might forget...:eek:

[kingdomkerry]

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

[boovidge]

It's GSTGL. She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain. If she was Queen of Britain she'd QE1 not QE2. English and British culture and history is so intertwined that I doubt that you could really distinguish between an English and British anthem.


I disagree. The monarch was King/Queen of England and Scotland before the two Kingdoms merged. Therefore if the Union split she'd still be the Queen of Scotland. So as the anthem represents Scotland, Wales and NI too, England doesn't have it's own anthem. Hence why the English nationalists want Jerusalem or some other song at England games instead of GSTQ. They don't see Englishness and Britishness as the same thing.

[Ireland4ever]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1451206,00.html


Get our teeth into that..obviously according to EGs logic this journo is a bigot also!!


Henry McDonald is a perceptive and informed journalist, for whom I personally have a lot of time. I would never call him a "bigot" (or even "biggot"), if for no other reason than that he doesn't appear to make up lies or recall inaccurate and offensive tales told to him by a "mate".

...:eek:

Well if you're going to be that annoyingly pedantic EG i think someone should correct you, its bigot, not biggot.

[EalingGreen]

P.S. You might want to try a little bit of punctuation in your posts. Unless, of course, you are conducting some sort of subversive protest against "the Queen's English"...:rolleyes:

"Cheers for the english lesson. You sound just like my old school teacher fool of s*it"[/QUOTE]

It wasn't a lesson, it was a suggestion. And if the teacher to whom you refer was your English teacher, you might have been better advised to listen to him/her, since your original post was illiterate to the point of being incomprehensible.

Speaking of which, have you any comment on the reported remarks by Neil Lennon, or do you not consider these relevant to the point which (I think) you were making about, ahem, Neil Lennon?

[EalingGreen]

Well if you're going to be that annoyingly pedantic EG i think someone should correct you, its bigot, not biggot.

I wasn't being pedantic; if you had read the earlier post to which I was referring, you'd see I was being sarcastic.

P.S. The "i" after EG (above) should be capitalised. Now that's pedantry for you! ;)

[LeviathanNI]

Oh for the love of God.. the next thing we will have Mr Parker on here with a complete chronological list of all our linguistic failings.

[EalingGreen]

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.


KK,
Have you been to many pubs in NI on matchdays? Have you visited many NI pubs on non-matchdays? Or even one?

And have you ever been to any NI away matches?

Do you believe everything you read?



And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

Just as it is ludicrous for an even tinier little island like Hong Kong to imagine it could keep its own, separate international football team, even after it had reverted to being part of by far the largest and most populous country in the world.

Oh wait, it has...;)

[gustavo]

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricousA

Ask Drogs fans what kind of reception they get when they go up there

[cheifo]

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

And what anthem would be acceptable to both traditions in this AI team.Obviously not our one or GSTQ so that would leave.....Irelands Call:eek:
Maybe Fatboy Slim can do something with it for us.
The new flag acceptable to both sides could just have a picture of the chuckle brothers with big Ian playing the Harp and Martin sucking on a tin whistle.
New manager will be special K after he resigns from Newcastle with Dana as his assistant.

[LeviathanNI]

A

Ask Drogs fans what kind of reception they get when they go up there

Ask any Southern clubs the reception they get.. any we have played anyway.

[Blanchflower]

BACKTOWALSALL

If they lock northerners into playing for NI it will end up in a very messy court case in Belfast between FIFA and someone who wants to play for ROI U-21s or something

What would be the grounds for this court case?

Co.DOWN GREEN

Was speaking to a guy who helps run one of the Ireland supporters clubs in Belfast yesterday. He got wind of the programme a couple of weeks ago and contacted the BBC about taking part, he never received a reply.

Maybe they couldn’t understand the relevance of a rugby supporter wanting to be interviewed on a programme about football?

HOLIDAYSONG

I watched the show with my flatmate from Lisburn. He is a Northern Ireland fan and agreed that the FAI should be allowed call up players from Northern Ireland due to the GFA.

What’s it got to do with the GFA?

LOPEZ

She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain.

Nonsense. The Kingdom of England ceased to exist on 1st May 1707. You’re only 301 years out of date.

[geysir]

Only a few more years to go to get to King Billy.

The Eligibility threads are like a play where the lines in scenes 2 and 3 are word for the word the same as was spoken in scene 1.

[gspain]

I watched the show with my flatmate from Lisburn. He is a Northern Ireland fan and agreed that the FAI should be allowed call up players from Northern Ireland due to the GFA. I don't agree with the FAI asking only players from one community in Northern Ireland. Asking young players from Derry and not from Lisburn to play for the ROI shows sectarianism on the part of the FAI in my opinion. Obviously, a lot of players from Lisburn aren't going to choose to play, but they should be asked. The same goes for the IFA, they should ensure that players from Derry are asked to play for Northern Ireland and not give the FAI a chance to make the players minds up for them. What struck me most from the show was that players want to be given an opportunity and whoever asks them first might be the most successful.

Why do you think the FAI wouldn't pick somebody from Lisburn? Since 1946 2 players who grew up in NI have played for us at senior level - Darron Gibson and Alan Kernaghan - one from a nationalist background and one from a unionist background.

[gspain]

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

Maybe you should try attending games and see for yourself. Having attended Setanta Cup matches, Irish Cup finals and NI Internationals at WP in recent years the above is complete rubbish. I have a very obvious southern accent and was never in the least bit concerned re talking to anyone. I've also drank in a number of pubs before and after some of these games without a problem. There was one sectarian song sung by a small group at the Setanta Cup final. Linfield also had the ground covered in anti sectarinism posters. There clearly is a small minority still intent on prolonging it but hopefully they will be weeded out as well. This minority element appears to have been weeded out of the NI home support. I can't comment on away games.

[carloz]

Well this thread has turned into a load of bull****. Why must eve thread that involvesz Northern Ireland be completly and utterly boring

[cheifo]

Well said Gspain and this is my main issue with some of the posts of this thread.Why do some people like to concentrate on the minority instead of crediting the fantastic strides achieved by the majority.Its so pointless and negative that unless you have an agenda to stereotype people it does not make sense.
The success of the Seatanta cup is imo vital to football Noth and South and I have very respect for supporters of Glens & Linfield who spend their money and time following their local team.
The supporters of these teams and of NI deserve huge credit for working hard to oust sectarian elements who they clearly dont want at their matches.

[lopez]

I disagree. The monarch was King/Queen of England and Scotland before the two Kingdoms merged. Therefore if the Union split she'd still be the Queen of Scotland. So as the anthem represents Scotland, Wales and NI too, England doesn't have it's own anthem. Hence why the English nationalists want Jerusalem or some other song at England games instead of GSTQ. They don't see Englishness and Britishness as the same thing.I don't think you know how close Englishness as an identity and culture is associated with Britishness. Twenty years ago, England matches would have been decorated with UJs. The fact that this is now uncommon has less to do with any independence movement than a dislike of the other countries seeking to move away. In a nutshell, the view is, you go your way, but we'll keep everything we hold dear - the queen, cult of war, hating everybody else - the same.

As for 'Jerusalem'? I'd put more money on the Soldiers Song being played as the home anthem at Windsor Park.:D


LOPEZ

She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain.

Nonsense. The Kingdom of England ceased to exist on 1st May 1707. You’re only 301 years out of date.The two royals were joined in 1603 not 1707 when the King or Queen of England became head of states over the whole of the southern end of the Atlantic Archipeligo. The 'British' royalty is still deemed a descendent of the line from William the Conqueror - although not by blood - hence we have QE2 and not a new second QE1. Basically new name, same old monarchy. There is also the small matter of her role as head of the church of England and not the church of Scotland, which also brings her closer to Englishness than Scottishness.

Thanks for the history lesson though. I'll direct your post to the many muppets in this country that actually believe England is still a country which as you rightly say, has ceased to exist since 1707.

[Hibernian]

"Cheers for the english lesson. You sound just like my old school teacher fool of s*it"

It wasn't a lesson, it was a suggestion. And if the teacher to whom you refer was your English teacher, you might have been better advised to listen to him/her, since your original post was illiterate to the point of being incomprehensible.

Speaking of which, have you any comment on the reported remarks by Neil Lennon, or do you not consider these relevant to the point which (I think) you were making about, ahem, Neil Lennon?[/QUOTE]

there is no ahem about it, it was about Neil Lennon so I am not sure if you actually did read my post which you seem to have considered incomprehensible (nice big word from you fair play)

Anyway, Neil Lennon only made those comments so too make peace he did not mean those lets be honest and bigger picture is not expressed in what he said.

Just cause it is improving don't expect to get a round of applause. Your national following has a major disease which is a pity but it is around and that's sad that Norn Iron have been this way for so long and will for some time.

[lopez]

...Consequently, I wasn't in the Bot. However, having seen an account which I trust by someone who was there, it seems that the overwhelming majority of people were having a great time - especially when the girl with the mighty bazookas finally "got them out for the lads" (and the TV cameras!) - only for the atmosphere to be temporarily spoiled when a couple of ****ed-up wee spides seized their opportunity to achieve their 15 seconds of fame by singing their sectarian filth. I say "temporarily" since, as I understand it, they were chucked out by the bouncers almost straightaway...I was in the Bot after the game in 1994 and before the NI v Spain game of 2003. It struck me as a nationalist pub back then as during the latter there were just people getting ready to watch the Ireland v Georgia game.

While we're getting all self righteous in redefining the meaning of 'bigot', 'bazookas' and getting 'them out for the lads' might be found more offensive by women supporters than some w*nk Rangers 'sectarian filth'.


Well said Gspain and this is my main issue with some of the posts of this thread.Why do some people like to concentrate on the minority instead of crediting the fantastic strides achieved by the majority.Its so pointless and negative that unless you have an agenda to stereotype people it does not make sense...As been done to death before, the sectarianism of a minority, no matter how small, no matter how long ago, is a reason cited for many NI nationalists prefering to support Ireland.

I would take the sectarianism or bigotry within a minority of our fans if I could get Croke Park, Lansdowne Road or our away games rocking like the Kop was when I was last at Windsor Park. But then the FAI's only worries about offending and alienating a minority the size of what nationalists are in the 6C is currently whether any Northern Unionists would be put off from playing for them because of this.

[RogerMilla]

While we're getting all self righteous in redefining the meaning of 'bigot', 'bazookas' and getting 'them out for the lads' might be found more offensive by women supporters .

agreed i much prefer to use the word "bazumbas" myself.

Thread involving NI descends into finger pointing and "clarification" again.

Brilliant.

[Blanchflower]

The two royals were joined in 1603 not 1707 when the King or Queen of England became head of states over the whole of the southern end of the Atlantic Archipeligo.

No, no, no. The two crowns were united in one person (James VI of Scotland) but remained separate titles and separate kingdoms. In 1707 the two kingdoms were united and the separate kingdoms of England and Scotland ceased to exist.


and the The 'British' royalty is still deemed a descendent of the line from William the Conqueror - although not by blood - hence we have QE2 and not a new second QE1.
It's also descended from the Scottish line!

She's called QE2 because the numbering of titles is taken from the English line. That does not mean that the kingdom of England still exists.


Basically new name, same old monarchy.
Except it was actually the Scottish line that took over the English line!


There is also the small matter of her role as head of the church of England and not the church of Scotland, which also brings her closer to Englishness than Scottishness.

Oh dear:o. She's actually head of the Church of Scotland, too!

[EalingGreen]

Anyway, Neil Lennon only made those comments so too make peace he did not mean those lets be honest and bigger picture is not expressed in what he said.


So Lennon is basically a liar, then? Even if you think this to be the case, what reason would he have for doing so? Why would he need "to keep the peace?" - especially with those who formerly abused him? He was long since retired from international football when he said this and was living in GB, so the "war" was long over - he didn't have to say anything.

The facts are these. Lennon was abused by a minority, then threatened by an individual. It must have been a very worrying time, but it was years ago. In the intervening period, things have improved enormously, which he generously acknowledged in a tape which he made specially for the IFA (afaik, he couldn't attend because he was on Celtic duty).

For you to harp on about the original offence, then try to discredit the evidence which demonstrates that things have moved on, indicates to me that you are not interested in progress; rather, you are stuck in the past with your petty prejudices. Just like the people who booed Lennon, in fact.



Just cause it is improving don't expect to get a round of applause.

No-one is expecting applause. But we don't expect - and won't accept - criticism which is unfair, misrepresentative, out-of-date and frankly prejudiced, either. And certainly not from people who clearly have little or no knowledge of what is really going on.



Your national following has a major disease which is a pity but it is around and that's sad that Norn Iron have been this way for so long and will for some time.

Nor do we need the likes of you to tell us what is wrong with our sport. We are well aware of it and are doing our utmost to deal with this "disease". Speaking of which, following events in Dublin in the years since the Lennon incident - e.g. the booing of Rangers players, or the anti-semitism when Israel came to town - I might point out that your team is hardly immune from the disease, either.

Yet I have no doubt that those actions were those of a tiny and unrepresentative minority, abhorred by the overwhelmingly decent majority. Consequently, I am more than happy that the FAI and fans will deal with it, without benefit of my less than informed opinion.

[RogerMilla]

or the anti-semitism when Israel came to town .

Give me quotes from a reputable news paper about anti-semitism from Irish Supporters during that game or take back this bull**** statement.

No He said She said, show me a quote , or apologise immediately.

[EalingGreen]

While we're getting all self righteous in redefining the meaning of 'bigot', 'bazookas' and getting 'them out for the lads' might be found more offensive by women supporters than some w*nk Rangers 'sectarian filth'.


I'd have thought the young lady in question, who appeared to need little encouragement to expose her breasts, is the one who should be explaining herself to her feminist sisters. At the very least, I am quite certain that she won't have been offended by my terminology!

Besides, if the worst we can be accused of is sexism, then I'd have to say that that's an advance over the usual criticism we receive...;)



As been done to death before, the sectarianism of a minority, no matter how small, no matter how long ago, is a reason cited for many NI nationalists prefering to support Ireland.


Now we are at the nub of the whole issue. There is no doubt that sectarianism is a reason (the chief reason?) why many NI Nats choose ROI over NI.

However, there are two qualifications which I think need to be made which are at least as important, but invariably get overlooked against the complaints of the "Whatabout Neil Lennon Brigade" (e.g. Hibernian or Kingdom Kerry).

First, at least some of those NI Nats are unaware of the massive improvements which have been made in recent years, which if they were, might cause them to change their stance. (I say "at least some", since others may be aware, but either refuse to accept it or they are using "sectarianism" as a pretext to conceal the fact that they still wouldn't support NI even if the sectarianism and politics - flag, anthem etc - were completely removed)

Second, whatever vestigial sectarianism remains, it is now so reduced and contained as not to be serious enough to prevent any NI Nat from attending and supporting the team entirely without fear or alarm. Yet when even neutrals like Gspain with direct and up-to-date experience point this out, their testimony gets drowned by the chorus of naysayers and begrudgers.

[Which incidentally may also serve to explain to ROI fans - especially those actually from the Republic - why "Not Brazil" and myself and others spend so much time on forums like this "fighting the good fight". We're proud that things are much better and we want more people from all backgrounds to be aware of it and join us. Above all, we're sick to death of being demonised as bigots etc by people whose own ignorance and denial in the face of the facts actually marks them down as more deserving of such an epithet than us.]

[Stuttgart88]

EG, while you tend to write well and offer sensible rebuffal to some of the antagonism shown to you here I think you've really let yourself down on the charges of anti-semitism. There was booing (at Awat's cheating for example) and there was whistling (like home supporters do when the opposition is in possession), just like you get at all football matches and yes, there was even an organised political demonstration in town before the game, but only a crank intent on besmirching our good name could offer a charge of anti-semitism.

Regarding the booing of Rangers players it's sad that the younger element in our support boo players because of which British team they play for. It happens to Liverpool and MUFC players in Dublin too. However, I would say that in no way was this booing related to the religion of the players in question, it was just because they played for Celtic's rivals, a club with a past of anti Irishness and sectarianism, and we all know that an element in our support wrongly see Celtic and Ireland as interchangable. Anyone present at the Denmark game (Peter Madsen being mistaken for Lovenkrands) will tell you that it was pantomime booing, with little or no real intensity. The booing was wrong but not least because it gave those who would be so inclined a stick to beat us with.

Even if you don't gree with my second point (many don't) you've stepped right out of line with the anti-semitism charge and you'd be well advised to return to offering your frequently interesting football insights if you're to retain my respect on this forum.