Charlton Documentary On TG4

[NeilMcD]

What did people think. I enjoyed it, a pity more players did not contribute and people other than Dunphy.

[Fergie's Son]

I enjoyed it though perhaps too much of Dunphy. That said, he did seem somewhat contrite in parts. Would have like to have seen more from the players as well as at least some highlights from the 92 campaign. Overall. a nice production. The Charlton years were good years.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Yup, enjoyable, if a bit safe and not exactly groundbreaking. I liked jack's contributions. There is something about the man which makes him likeable. The Dunphy angle of 'good players bad tactics' has been done to death as well as Quinn's comments on the somewhat chaotic organisation situation being well known and debated to death in the Roy Keane/Brian Kerr post Saipan era.

I for one will never tire of seeing the footage from those times. As a 7 year old when Italia '90 was on, that and the subsequent hours spent watching videos of it and '88 are what put me and others of my age onto soccer.

I won't give up on following sport when there is a chance of being there and part of the likes of stuttgart, Genoa, Giants etc and even Anfield '95, the ending of an era.

As a GAA man, Roscommon winning the Connacht in '01 for the first time in ten years ranks up there with one of the greatest days of my life (:o) and seeing that footage again of those days and events I've mentioned above for the Ireland team just reaffirms my passion and commitment to following my side through highs and lows.

Onwards and upwards for '08. :ball:

[Ringo]

Very enjoyable. A bit sick of the Poor Liam Brady bit. Graet times . don't think we'll ever get that feeling back again. Something very special about Italia '90.

[bennocelt]

Thought it was decent enough. Isnt T na G the best Tv staton out there?
Agree that the Brady stuff has been done to death. I mean wasnt Brady in his 30's, what the fcuk was he doing before that with ireland, and Dunphy going on about the style we played, but I remember the 1990 world cup was one of the most boring ones ever, most games had only one goal, so its not if Ireland were the only rubbish team in the world. Football was very defensive in the early 90's.
But was Dunphy crying in this doc?

[zenokelly]

I thought the 92 and 94 campaigns should have been done a bit more but seeing the fall-out after the Egypt match was great, and Dunphy's mop:D

Great to look back on it though!

[CollegeTillIDie]

Ta T G 4 an bealach teilifis is fearr :D

[stojkovic]

Brady was 33 when Charlton took him off at Lansdowne v West Germany.

It wasnt his age that was the issue. Charlton took him off after 30 mins at home in a friendly. He could have waited til half-time. It embarrassed the greatest player ever to play for Ireland (up to that point). He deserved better.

What had Brady done previously. Well he played in a team that missed out on goal difference for the 82 World Cup. In a group that contained the 1978 World Cup Finalists (Holland), the 1980 Euro Runners Up (Belgium) and the 1982 World Cup Semi-Finalists (France). When you consider we were robbed of a point in Paris and two points in Brussels by corrupt referees, I think it was an achievement.

To rub it in, Ireland and Wales finished on ten points in tough groups and didnt qualify. England and N Ireland qualified with nine from theirs.

[gufcfan]

Is that the ancient documentary that was made years ago that i have on VHS in a cupboard somewhere. It starts or finishes with Charlton in the back of a car or somethin...

[Fergie's Son]

Nope, new one.

[theworm2345]

Is that the ancient documentary that was made years ago that i have on VHS in a cupboard somewhere. It starts or finishes with Charlton in the back of a car or somethin...
Thats the Charlton Years, I have that if you want

[gufcfan]

Nope, new one.

Tis a pity it's not archived on tg4.tv like the rest of the stuff. Sorry i missed it now. I purposely dint watch it coz i thought it was the old one... ah well. they'll have it repeated soon hopefully anyhow

[macdermesser]

don't suppose anyone taped it?

[bohsRap]

Tis a pity it's not archived on tg4.tv like the rest of the stuff. Sorry i missed it now. I purposely dint watch it coz i thought it was the old one... ah well. they'll have it repeated soon hopefully anyhow

I'd imagine they have to get someone to physically put it online so mightn't be up until after new years.

[back of the net]

yeah i thought it was very good - really enjoyable

seeing dunphys eyes fill up with tears was weird though

and jack talking bout the irish fans in anfield in 1995 - class

[back of the net]

Thought it was decent enough. Isnt T na G the best Tv staton out there?
Agree that the Brady stuff has been done to death. I mean wasnt Brady in his 30's, what the fcuk was he doing before that with ireland, and Dunphy going on about the style we played, but I remember the 1990 world cup was one of the most boring ones ever, most games had only one goal, so its not if Ireland were the only rubbish team in the world. Football was very defensive in the early 90's.
But was Dunphy crying in this doc?

yep he was crying alright - defo

[Pauro 76]

Watched that today. Never tire of the whole Italia 90 buzz. I first started getting into football at Euro 88, and what a time. The wide eyed innocence of it all, and so glad i was at an age I could appreciate it now Im a tad older!

[an_ceannaire]

having Dunphy on was a great idea. meant it was objective and not just another "I am great, look at me" rant. It was a good bit of tele and having the opposing views made it so.
watching Dunphys emotion really brought it home that for all you say about him, for all you disagree and loathe him, the man is Irish football to the core and probably cares more than most of us here put together. History will judge Eamo kindly

[OwlsFan]

having Dunphy on was a great idea. meant it was objective and not just another "I am great, look at me" rant. It was a good bit of tele and having the opposing views made it so.
watching Dunphys emotion really brought it home that for all you say about him, for all you disagree and loathe him, the man is Irish football to the core and probably cares more than most of us here put together. History will judge Eamo kindly

That's your opinion.

"Irish football to the core": the man who supported the Kilcoynes in their sale of Milltown :rolleyes: Don't make me laugh. He cares nothing about Irish football. He cares only about the sound of his own voice and his subjective (not objective) opinions and he has made a great living out of it. He has launched personal attacks (Andy Capp on Jack C),Mick Mc and on all Irish managers...ah, I am tired of repeating myself but when I see stuff like he cares more about Irish football than any of us, I just despair.

I taped the programme. I haven't watched it yet but as far as I am aware Dunphy wasn't in the team in Italia 90 so why there should be any mention of him saying the same old stuff, I am not sure. He certainly made a good living out of it mind you.

[Collyontour]

I don't think Dunphy will be remembered kindly by Irish supporters. Remember he wanted Cameroon to beat us? All he cares about is getting himself in the limelight, causing controversy. Thought the documetary was really good. It was a brilliant time for Irish football when we didn't give a f*** who the opposition were.

[NeilMcD]

having Dunphy on was a great idea. meant it was objective and not just another "I am great, look at me" rant. It was a good bit of tele and having the opposing views made it so.
watching Dunphys emotion really brought it home that for all you say about him, for all you disagree and loathe him, the man is Irish football to the core and probably cares more than most of us here put together. History will judge Eamo kindly

if onlyou you had of left it at the first part of your post but you got carried away and got caught up in hyperbole just like Dunphy does. Maybe subconciously that was your point.

Oh Owls Fan, all opinions by their very nature are subjective and one could even go to state that all statements are subjective.

[bennocelt]

Brady was 33 when Charlton took him off at Lansdowne v West Germany.

It wasnt his age that was the issue. Charlton took him off after 30 mins at home in a friendly. He could have waited til half-time. It embarrassed the greatest player ever to play for Ireland (up to that point). He deserved better.

What had Brady done previously. Well he played in a team that missed out on goal difference for the 82 World Cup. In a group that contained the 1978 World Cup Finalists (Holland), the 1980 Euro Runners Up (Belgium) and the 1982 World Cup Semi-Finalists (France). When you consider we were robbed of a point in Paris and two points in Brussels by corrupt referees, I think it was an achievement.

To rub it in, Ireland and Wales finished on ten points in tough groups and didnt qualify. England and N Ireland qualified with nine from theirs.


yeah i agree with you on all this, but its still not world cups and all that, more like moral victories and missed opportunities

[geysir]

I see it's being repeated at 2.25pm on TG4 this afternoon.

[OwlsFan]

Watched it on tape last night. Enjoyed it apart from the large doses of the poison dwarf.

Interesting to see all those games I was at: Hungary at home, Malta away, Portugal away (3-0 :mad: - worst game ever from a weather, facilities and results wise), Stuttgart, Gelsenkirchen, Hannover. Giant Stadium, Orlando etc etc and of course Gary Mackay (wasn't at it but took the day off to watch it).

The only tears that interested me in that programme were Jack's own when he spoke about the Anfield experience. A great manager and a great man who gave me the greatest moments of my life.

Pity it ended up with the poison dwarf having the last word when he said that prior to Jack "soccer had been a game played by only Dublin gurriers". My wife chirped in when she heard that with "Only when he (Dunphy) was playing". :D:D

[green army]

saw the last half hour of it. very good.

[onenilgameover]

thought it was ok..stories have been done to death and there is not much unseen footage..jack speaking now was nice. dunphy as always is not worth speaking about

[OwlsFan]

dunphy as always is not worth speaking about

The trouble is, if someone repeats a lie often enough, it becomes fact. Dunphy said as usual that "Jack was always happy just to qualify" when history shows otherwise. In both World Cups we advanced from our groups (Last 8 in Italia 90, last 16 in USA 94 (with an aging team)) and a hair's breath from the semi-final in Euro 88. This nonsense doesn't stand up to scrutiny but I still hear a number of
Dunphy(sh)ites repeating it.

I was also interested to hearing a couple of the players saying they really thought they could beat Italy in 1990 and were devastated at the result. Just happy to qualify my ........

[paul_oshea]

is this online? id love to get a torrent of it.

[macdermesser]

is this online? id love to get a torrent of it.

I know .. it's painful for ex-pats reading this thread!! Should have asked the mammy to tape it.

[Calcio Jack]

[QUOTE=OwlsFan;847158]The trouble is, if someone repeats a lie often enough, it becomes fact. Dunphy said as usual that "Jack was always happy just to qualify" when history shows otherwise. In both World Cups we advanced from our groups (Last 8 in Italia 90, last 16 in USA 94 (with an aging team)) and a hair's breath from the semi-final in Euro 88. This nonsense doesn't stand up to scrutiny but I still hear a number of
Dunphy(sh)ites repeating it.

I agree with Dunphy's view... sure it was great that we qualified for three tounaments with jack...but i always felt that in 1990 we should of taken the game more to Italy as they were very beatable...also Jack tactics during the 1992 Euro qualifiers meant we blew a real chance of not just getting to the finals but also winning it, as I believe that the team were then at the peak of their powers , 1994 came too late for them.... for me Jack's negative attitude was summed up by his comment after we'd blown a 3-1 lead away to Poland and finished 3-3 when he said "... drawing 3-3 was better than winning as it gives the Poles something to play for against England in their final game.." he may of being trying to gloss over a disaster but IMO summed up his negativity.

My defining moment during the 1990 World cup was when in a packed pub , after the egypt game and Dunphy's misquoted comments, the cameras focussed on Dunphy... " I shouted , ther's a man who tells it as it is..." the rest of the pub started booing and I was threatened by a group of angry fools who accused me of treason !! plonkers.

We then had to enjure that idiotic comment from McCarthy when he said ".. I'm ashamed that Eamon Dunphy is Irish.." and then a few days later Charltons ignorance when he came into a press conference and said he wouldn't take any questions Dunphy, thus revelaing himself as a bully.

As for what Charlton did to Brady...well that was simply unnesssary and unforgivable.

[NeilMcD]

This should be fun

[geysir]

is this online? id love to get a torrent of it.
I could upload it somewhere but I would edit out all the Dunphy contributions.
Then it would be decent enough.

Then I would edit out all the footage that is widely available.
Then I would edit out the well worn stories that are available on other tapes.
Then all that's left is Jack, poor daft bugger down mine.

[OwlsFan]

I agree with Dunphy's view... .

Firstly, I find it ironic that someone with a Rovers' Avatar should be defending Dunphy (the man who vocally and in print supported the Kilcoyne's sale of Milltown).

Secondly, you agree with which view? The one where he said we were only happy to qualify when it is clear we did far more than just qualify.


sure it was great that we qualified for three tounaments with jack...but i always felt that in 1990 we should of taken the game more to Italy as they were very beatable....

Like every team which plays in Rome takes the game to Italy :eek: We limited them to a few half chances, McGrath might have scored and but for a Bonner mistake, we might have taken that one to penos as well. We were THAT close to a semi-final of the World Cup but of course we should have attacked Italy and played them off the park with Chris Morris, Mick McCarthy and other such world class players.



also Jack tactics during the 1992 Euro qualifiers meant we blew a real chance of not just getting to the finals but also winning it, as I believe that the team were then at the peak of their powers , 1994 came too late for them.... for me Jack's negative attitude was summed up by his comment after we'd blown a 3-1 lead away to Poland and finished 3-3 when he said "... drawing 3-3 was better than winning as it gives the Poles something to play for against England in their final game.." he may of being trying to gloss over a disaster but IMO summed up his negativity.....

Those comments were made in an attempt to put a gloss on a terrible result. Managers do it all the time and I read nothing in to it at the time and still don't. It's camera speak. Jack's "negative" team had scored 3 away to Poland but thanks to some mistakes at the back, not by Jack who wasn't playing, they snatched a draw. I agree that his team was at its peak at that stage. His "negative" team had outplayed England at Wembley (Houghton missed a sitter in the last minute) and but for Lineker snatching one in Poland, we would have made it. Lucky Jack I don't think so.


My defining moment during the 1990 World cup was when in a packed pub , after the egypt game and Dunphy's misquoted comments, the cameras focussed on Dunphy... " I shouted , ther's a man who tells it as it is..." the rest of the pub started booing and I was threatened by a group of angry fools who accused me of treason !! plonkers......

"A man who tells it as it is." - what a joke. A man who sees it from his own narrow perspective and given a chance would p*ss on any parade so as to keep himself in the limelight. A man who hasn't even managed Ballyfermot U11s and yet constantly criticises successful managers. The "traitor" stuff is of course rubbish but Dunphy loves to play on this as well.


We then had to enjure that idiotic comment from McCarthy when he said ".. I'm ashamed that Eamon Dunphy is Irish.." and then a few days later Charltons ignorance when he came into a press conference and said he wouldn't take any questions Dunphy, thus revelaing himself as a bully.

I too am ashamed that Dunphy is Irish (no other country would tolerate his appeal to the base instincts of many football fans) and if someone had constantly used his role in the media and public television to portray me as an "Andy Capp" figure, I wouldn't talk to him either and neither would you I suspect.


As for what Charlton did to Brady...well that was simply unnesssary and unforgivable.

The hug he gave him when he was sent off against Bulgaria? Or the substitution against Germany? Big deal. Media hype. I was at the game. I thought it was a good substitution as we were being overrun in midfield. I didn't think about humiliation until I saw a few journalists making a big deal of it.

Jack Charlton: two world cups and our only Euro championship. Hero.

Dunphy: never won a game when playing for Ireland and journeyman at Millwall. Buffoon.


This should be fun

Happy? ;)

[Drumcondra 69er]

I agree with Dunphy's view... sure it was great that we qualified for three tounaments with jack...but i always felt that in 1990 we should of taken the game more to Italy as they were very beatable...also Jack tactics during the 1992 Euro qualifiers meant we blew a real chance of not just getting to the finals but also winning it, as I believe that the team were then at the peak of their powers , 1994 came too late for them.... for me Jack's negative attitude was summed up by his comment after we'd blown a 3-1 lead away to Poland and finished 3-3 when he said "... drawing 3-3 was better than winning as it gives the Poles something to play for against England in their final game.." he may of being trying to gloss over a disaster but IMO summed up his negativity.

My defining moment during the 1990 World cup was when in a packed pub , after the egypt game and Dunphy's misquoted comments, the cameras focussed on Dunphy... " I shouted , ther's a man who tells it as it is..." the rest of the pub started booing and I was threatened by a group of angry fools who accused me of treason !! plonkers.

We then had to enjure that idiotic comment from McCarthy when he said ".. I'm ashamed that Eamon Dunphy is Irish.." and then a few days later Charltons ignorance when he came into a press conference and said he wouldn't take any questions Dunphy, thus revelaing himself as a bully.

As for what Charlton did to Brady...well that was simply unnesssary and unforgivable.

!) Playing the host nation in Rome, risky business taking the game to them, easy to say with hindsight, that was a very tight negative World Cup, most sides played that way, look at the semi finalists. It could have gone either way against Italy, 9 time out of 10 that save from Bonner would have gone anywhere except straight to Schilaci, that's football. They weren't that beatable anyway, they were the best team in it and got beaten in the semis by a team who took the game to them far less then we did.

2) Utter rubbish, if David O'Leary had stuck with Jack's tactics of 'if in doubt put it out' rather then trying to play his way out of a tight spot on the sideline we'd have beaten Poland and qualified. Our tactics were spot on in that group, it was the best we played under Jack. I agree we could have won that tournament but it was obvious to anyone that his comment about the Poland draw was an attempt to find a positive. IS that the exact quote anyway?

3) No offence but you must be a proper miserable get for that to be the defining moment of that World Cup for you rather then O'Leary's penalty or Sheedy's goal or the sight of the Irish support at all the games. The Egypt game was a debacle but it's not as if we lost to Costa Rica like the Scots did. Sometimes there's bad results and bad performances, that's football. I don't recall McCarthy saying that, are you not getting confused with what it was wrongly reported that Dunphy had said? As for Charlton being a bully, sometimes you fight fire with fire, Dunphy's always been a bully himself.

4) I agree that Charlton should have waited till half time to hook Brady off but he was obviously a passenger in that game and was finished as a player at that stage following his last knee injury. He would have made the Euro 88 squad had he not been suspended and then injured and the suggestion that he should have been in the WC 90 squad that some have made is laughable. People also tend to forget that Liam had been gash for Ireland for a number of years prior to Charltons arrival and much as he didn't like the role he had to play his most effective spell for Ireland since his younger days came in the role under Jack. Dunphy regulalrly slated Brady for his performances for Ireland in the early 80's when he was at the peak of his powers in the club game.

People tend to forget we'd not qualified for anything pre 88, we were effective under Charlton because we had a plan and everybody played to it. It suited the game at the time, it's obviously moved on since. It's not eay winning tournaments but we weren't far off, who knows what might have been, we may not have even qualified playing a different way.

[NeilMcD]

Who was the only player to start every game in the qualifiers for Euro 88, was it Brady.

[fergalr]

Dunphy: never won a game when playing for Ireland and journeyman at Millwall. Buffoon.


While I agree 100% with everything else in your post I need to repeat a previous posting: http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=642599&highlight=dunphy#post642599:

Sorry to have to correct this (no I really am sorry)....... but old Eamo Grumpy was on the winning side on two occasions:

Ireland 2 -1 Turkey 16-Nov 1966
Czechoslovakia 1 - 2 Ireland 22-Nov 1967

Average player, sh1te pundit.

[Wolfie]

!)
2) Utter rubbish, if David O'Leary had stuck with Jack's tactics of 'if in doubt put it out' rather then trying to play his way out of a tight spot on the sideline we'd have beaten Poland and qualified. Our tactics were spot on in that group, it was the best we played under Jack. I agree we could have won that tournament but it was obvious to anyone that his comment about the Poland draw was an attempt to find a positive. IS that the exact quote anyway?


4) I agree that Charlton should have waited till half time to hook Brady off but he was obviously a passenger in that game and was finished as a player at that stage following his last knee injury. He would have made the Euro 88 squad had he not been suspended and then injured and the suggestion that he should have been in the WC 90 squad that some have made is laughable. People also tend to forget that Liam had been gash for Ireland for a number of years prior to Charltons arrival and much as he didn't like the role he had to play his most effective spell for Ireland since his younger days came in the role under Jack. Dunphy regulalrly slated Brady for his performances for Ireland in the early 80's when he was at the peak of his powers in the club game.


In a round about way, reminds me of how Charlton retrospectively criticised Kevin Sheedy for playing a short ball to John Aldridge's feet that resulted in lost possession against the Italians and ultimately the Italians goal in Italia 90.

Charlton contended that if Sheedy had have played the ball into the channel instead of short for Aldo - we'd have retained possession and the danger was gone.

I still think the Italians just about deserved to shade that game and would most likely have got the winning goal in the second half anyway.

He also criticised Terry Phelan's performance against Holland in USA 94. After the concession of the first Dutch goal, he said "I could have rung his neck". He wasn't the only one.

[paul_oshea]

He also criticised Terry Phelan's performance against Holland in USA 94. After the concession of the first Dutch goal, he said "I could have rung his neck". He wasn't the only one.

that is one of my most vivid memories of around the early 90s soccer and beyond. The reason for that was not his stupid mistake but his interview afterwards where he wouldn't admit to it and played it off. much like his rugby counterpart flute conor oshea.

[OwlsFan]

While I agree 100% with everything else in your post I need to repeat a previous posting: http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=642599&highlight=dunphy#post642599:

Sorry to have to correct this (no I really am sorry)....... but old Eamo Grumpy was on the winning side on two occasions:

Ireland 2 -1 Turkey 16-Nov 1966
Czechoslovakia 1 - 2 Ireland 22-Nov 1967

Average player, sh1te pundit.

I stand corrected but if I keep repeating that theory (like Dunphy), it may stick ;).

That Czech game resulted in someone (Germans?) sending us a crate of champage because it meant them qualifying for a tournament.

[Bondvillain]

Entertainment value.

I like him, for the above reason. Im not foolish enough to believe that every word he utters is the truth, or that every windmill he tilts at is a justifiable target, I just think his undeniable passion (for the international game, anyway), his presence, and his obvious intelligence adds something to the RTE commentary process which has stopped the national broadcaster's football programmes turning into something similar to the farce of "Nice blokes saying nice things to a nice man in a nice studio" which bizarrely passes for in-depth commentary & analysis in other quarters.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Entertainment value.

I like him, for the above reason. Im not foolish enough to believe that every word he utters is the truth, or that every windmill he tilts at is a justifiable target, I just think his undeniable passion (for the international game, anyway), his presence, and his obvious intelligence adds something to the RTE commentary process which has stopped the national broadcaster's football programmes turning into something similar to the farce of "Nice blokes saying nice things to a nice man in a nice studio" which bizarrely passes for in-depth commentary & analysis in other quarters.

Can't argue with any of that. It's priiceless when he starts trying to be earnest and is obviously talking sh1te. And also very funny when he's obviously three sheets or the odd occasions when he's been on the marching powder (early morning games in WC 2002 weren't really designed with Eamo in mind!).

[Stuttgart88]

I'm with BondVillain. Only a fool would slavishly adhere to every point that Dunphy makes but he's right on occasion and sometimes it's nice to hear a challenge to the dross you hear on other stations.

[OwlsFan]

Entertainment value.

I wasn't entertained when he supported the sale of Milltown. I wasn't entertained when he, Giles and O'Herlihy led an incessant campaign against Jack. I wasn't entertained when he, Giles and O'Herlihy led an incessant campaign against McCarthy.

Watch Coco the Clown instead. He talks as much sense and is more entertaining.

[bennocelt]

Hindsight is a great thing
Jeez i think Italy were always going to win that gane in 1990, and I remember that packie pretty much did the damage for the poland game, and brady was an old fella and slow as hell when we had the good times

But thats how i remember it anyway:)

[CollegeTillIDie]

Hindsight is a great thing
Jeez i think Italy were always going to win that gane in 1990, and I remember that packie pretty much did the damage for the poland game, and brady was an old fella and slow as hell when we had the good times

But thats how i remember it anyway:)

Well it was O'Leary gave the ball away for the two goals which brought Poland back from 3-1 down to 3-3 in that infamous away game in the Euro 92 Qualifiers.

[Fergie's Son]

Other than Quinn's header we never really threatned Italy's goal. We were never going to win that game. Schillachi had a fantastic free kick that almost went in.

The dropped points in '92 were terrible but England got very luck and had several calls go their way. They were a disgrace in Sweden.

[bennocelt]

Well it was O'Leary gave the ball away for the two goals which brought Poland back from 3-1 down to 3-3 in that infamous away game in the Euro 92 Qualifiers.

yeah thats true too:), but i cant get that image of a flapping bonner out of my head, it was my first taste of bitter dissapointment with Ireland having enjoyed the "success" of the previous years