Secret All-Ireland league talks at 'advanced' stage

[LeixlipRed]

Money talks boys and girls. Setanta are gonna pump in the monies, and it will happen, their will be a number of clubs falling off the wagon in both leagues and will probably not reappear for a long time. All ireland league iin rugby was trumpeted a few years back in rugby and it rarely features now. Maybe a top 4 provinces model like rugby funded to the tune of 5-10million each a year may make us compete in europe


Wouldn't the barstoolers love it? A Leinster side they can go see in Lansdowne 5 times a year? Look at what the provincial model in rugby has done to the clubs? It's killed them off. A provincial model would be the death of Irish football

[Mr A]

This reeks of teams being unhappy with the 65% wage cap forcing them to run in a sustainable manner trying to force the FAI to change the participation agreement. An AIL is a long way off and I do not see major benefits to Irish football from it currently.

[Blanchflower]

Wouldn't the barstoolers love it? A Leinster side they can go see in Lansdowne 5 times a year? Look at what the provincial model in rugby has done to the clubs? It's killed them off. A provincial model would be the death of Irish football

And what exactly is this provincial model?

A 4-team league? That'll really have the fans flocking in.

[Poor Student]

By the way, isn't this secret six thing blown out of proportion a little? Didn't Nick Leeson come out and support the wage cap a day or two after Galway were allegedly in the thick of this group against that very thing? The newspaper report as usual is vague on hard facts and big on speculation.

[Not Brazil]

Yup I agree with you.... however you shouldn't support an association that would shaft our club in an instant.

I will continue to support my Club AND my Country - no matter how difficult the IFA try to make that.

If the IFA shaft our Club, I would be fully supportive of any application by Linfield FC to join the Eircom League - notwithstanding these current developments.

[Postman]

This reeks of teams being unhappy with the 65% wage cap forcing them to run in a sustainable manner trying to force the FAI to change the participation agreement. An AIL is a long way off and I do not see major benefits to Irish football from it currently.

They're dead right to be looking to somehow circumvent the wage cap. It's an unfair system, conceptualised to stop crazy chairmen committing financial suicide. All things are not equal in the world of football and to try create this situation is ridiculous. At this moment in time Pats, Bohs, Drogs and Cork have all the cash. We may not like it but we have to accept it. We can all bleet on about the perils of property developers but this is the route that these clubs have chosen take. Be it on their heads if they fail.

The reality is that the eircom league's top clubs are competing for players with clubs in England's league 1 and 2 . How can they compete with a wage cap slapped on their heads? Isolated national wage caps are nonsense as competition is not limited to Ireland. With proper punishments for insolvency, wreckless trading or any financial irregularities, wage caps wouldn't be necessary. In other words, clubs need to have enough sense themsleves to know what wages they can afford. If they don't then it's their necks on the line.

[pete]

Setanta are currently paying up to 10k per eL game & maybe 50k per Setanta Cup game (includes sponsorship). How much would they pay for All Ireland League sponsorship + say 30-40 games? Would extra 200k revenue make enough difference to clubs?

[EalingGreen]

The reality is that the eircom league's top clubs are competing for players with clubs in England's league 1 and 2 . How can they compete with a wage cap slapped on their heads? Isolated national wage caps are nonsense as competition is not limited to Ireland. With proper punishments for insolvency, wreckless trading or any financial irregularities, wage caps wouldn't be necessary. In other words, clubs need to have enough sense themsleves to know what wages they can afford. If they don't then it's their necks on the line.

On a separate, but related note, is it correct that athletes get special tax status in the Republic (like artists, writers etc)?

If so, this might raise a problem for any all-Ireland League whereby Northern clubs would have to outbid their Southern counterparts when it comes to paying wages (i.e. in order to equalise their take home pay).

All other things being equal, a player would surely sooner accept e.g. €750 per week from Dundalk than £500 pw from Newry City. There might be other financial implications we haven't thought about, as well. For example, is it correct that VAT is not levied on gate receipts for sporting events in the Republic, the way it is in NI?

Also, differing levels of Government support (e.g. for facilities), or tighter/more lenient regulation, might also serve to prevent a level playing field?

How do Derry City fare at present?

[monutdfc]

On a separate, but related note, is it correct that athletes get special tax status in the Republic (like artists, writers etc)?

If so, this might raise a problem for any all-Ireland League whereby Northern clubs would have to outbid their Southern counterparts when it comes to paying wages (i.e. in order to equalise their take home pay).

All other things being equal, a player would surely sooner accept e.g. €750 per week from Dundalk than £500 pw from Newry City. There might be other financial implications we haven't thought about, as well. For example, is it correct that VAT is not levied on gate receipts for sporting events in the Republic, the way it is in NI?

Also, differing levels of Government support (e.g. for facilities), or tighter/more lenient regulation, might also serve to prevent a level playing field?

How do Derry City fare at present?
Maybe the players (from both sides of the border) could just be paid by the government like the gaa players :D:D:D

[incident]

On a separate, but related note, is it correct that athletes get special tax status in the Republic (like artists, writers etc)?

If so, this might raise a problem for any all-Ireland League whereby Northern clubs would have to outbid their Southern counterparts when it comes to paying wages (i.e. in order to equalise their take home pay).

All other things being equal, a player would surely sooner accept e.g. €750 per week from Dundalk than £500 pw from Newry City. There might be other financial implications we haven't thought about, as well. For example, is it correct that VAT is not levied on gate receipts for sporting events in the Republic, the way it is in NI?

Also, differing levels of Government support (e.g. for facilities), or tighter/more lenient regulation, might also serve to prevent a level playing field?

How do Derry City fare at present?
The VAT thing is correct - Derry pay VAT on gate receipts whereas the other eL clubs don't.

In terms of personal taxation, Sportsmen aren't tax-free like artists / writers / musicians - they pay tax just like any other employee would - however after they retire they can claim a fairly hefty tax rebate.

[OneRedArmy]

On a separate, but related note, is it correct that athletes get special tax status in the Republic (like artists, writers etc)?

If so, this might raise a problem for any all-Ireland League whereby Northern clubs would have to outbid their Southern counterparts when it comes to paying wages (i.e. in order to equalise their take home pay).

All other things being equal, a player would surely sooner accept e.g. €750 per week from Dundalk than £500 pw from Newry City. There might be other financial implications we haven't thought about, as well. For example, is it correct that VAT is not levied on gate receipts for sporting events in the Republic, the way it is in NI?

Also, differing levels of Government support (e.g. for facilities), or tighter/more lenient regulation, might also serve to prevent a level playing field?

How do Derry City fare at present?This issue is there at the minute so an all Ireland League isn't going to change anything in terms of the tax situation.

[dcfcsteve]

On a separate, but related note, is it correct that athletes get special tax status in the Republic (like artists, writers etc)?

If so, this might raise a problem for any all-Ireland League whereby Northern clubs would have to outbid their Southern counterparts when it comes to paying wages (i.e. in order to equalise their take home pay).

All other things being equal, a player would surely sooner accept e.g. €750 per week from Dundalk than £500 pw from Newry City. There might be other financial implications we haven't thought about, as well. For example, is it correct that VAT is not levied on gate receipts for sporting events in the Republic, the way it is in NI?

Also, differing levels of Government support (e.g. for facilities), or tighter/more lenient regulation, might also serve to prevent a level playing field?

How do Derry City fare at present?

Professional sportsplayers in the Republic are entitled to a partial tax rebate after a specified period (10 years ?) if they ahev remain based in the state continuously throughout that period. In practice, this only has a limited impact upon footballers - mostly those who are towards the end of the specified period and looking at a significant rebate, who then beome unwilling to leave the Republic. City players can get round this by living in Donegal.

Clubs in the Republic also don't pay VAT on gate receipts, unlike in the north, which is another small benefit for the south.

The reality of having 2 different political jurisdictions on a small island is that inequity between the two across varying spheres of life is almost inevitable. Closer tax-harmonisation north and south would make sense for a whole host of mutual reasons, and not just football.

Derry City

[pete]

Professional sportsplayers in the Republic are entitled to a partial tax rebate after a specified period (10 years ?) if they ahev remain based in the state continuously throughout that period. In practice, this only has a limited impact upon footballers - mostly those who are towards the end of the specified period and looking at a significant rebate, who then beome unwilling to leave the Republic. City players can get round this by living in Donegal.Derry City

I believe professional sports people can reclaim 40% of the tax they paid in 10 highest earning years. It is meant to be a sort of pension. I am not sure if need to be spend 10 continuous years as I presume could claim for 2 years if only played in the ROI for that period.

IMO it was introduced for horse racing industry (as if it needs any more hand outs) but likely to benefit rugby players a lot too.

[kingdomkerry]

An all ireland league would be wonderful. I really believe it would move the game way up in standard.

The only thing is though there is a secetarian element in the IFA who would not touch this with a barge pole. They would prefer to carry on as a poor league rather than merge with "fenians".

[OneRedArmy]

An all ireland league would be wonderful. I really believe it would move the game way up in standard.

The only thing is though there is a secetarian element in the IFA who would not touch this with a barge pole. They would prefer to carry on as a poor league rather than merge with "fenians".Its not a merger. Nobody is being forced into it.

[EalingGreen]

This issue is there at the minute so an all Ireland League isn't going to change anything in terms of the tax situation.

I suppose you're right as far as Derry City are concerned, but arguably they are in the Eircom and suffering any associated financial inequality against other Eircom teams, by choice. That is, they could always opt* to return to the Irish League.

However, if you were to instigate a new League where the operating costs of, say, 40% of the teams were (inevitably and unavoidably) significantly higher than the other 60% of teams, then that's not really a very good basis to be starting off on. After all, the whole principle of any League is surely that every team should start the season with an equal chance of winning (even if, in practice, that is never going to happen)?

And it's not just income tax and VAT we're talking about. If there should be significant differences in Government support for, or regulation restricting, clubs on either side of the border (e.g. the Dublin Government providing significantly more funding for stadia etc), this would surely exacerbate the inequity?

I only point this out, since there is huge resentment in NI amongst the other senior clubs that that Linfield (only) receive a huge income from the IFA for renting out Windsor Park for internationals and cup finals etc



* - Disregarding, for the moment, all the other "baggage", that is. :cool:

[Not Brazil]

I only point this out, since there is huge resentment in NI amongst the other senior clubs that that Linfield (only) receive a huge income from the IFA for renting out Windsor Park for internationals and cup finals etc


Maybe those other senior Irish League clubs should be asking themselves WTF the IFA did with their 85% share of the spoils?:rolleyes:.

[EalingGreen]

Professional sportsplayers in the Republic are entitled to a partial tax rebate after a specified period (10 years ?) if they ahev remain based in the state continuously throughout that period. In practice, this only has a limited impact upon footballers - mostly those who are towards the end of the specified period and looking at a significant rebate, who then beome unwilling to leave the Republic. City players can get round this by living in Donegal.


Not so easy for players in other parts of NI, though!



Clubs in the Republic also don't pay VAT on gate receipts, unlike in the north, which is another small benefit for the south.


I know few clubs can rely solely on gate receipts for their income, nonetheless, it will likely be the best supported NI teams which would be in any new League, partly in the hope that the higher standard would in turn encourage higher crowds. At which point 17.5% VAT ceases to be such a "small" issue - it's hardly equable if e.g. Newry have to charge their home fans 17.5% more when they host Dundalk, than Dundalk have to do when they host the return fixture, merely to generate the same revenue.



The reality of having 2 different political jurisdictions on a small island is that inequity between the two across varying spheres of life is almost inevitable. Closer tax-harmonisation north and south would make sense for a whole host of mutual reasons, and not just football.


You may well be right about that, but that's another argument for another forum. In the meantime, if this proposed new League is going to attract equal enthusiasm from both sides of the border, it may have to find a solution to such inequalities itself, since there is no way the UK Government is going to alter its whole tax system for the sake of a few semi-professional football clubs! :eek:

[EalingGreen]

Maybe those other senior Irish League clubs should be asking themselves WTF the IFA did with their 85% share of the spoils?:rolleyes:.

Oh ffs! :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

Liechtenstein does not have a national league
They've gotten special dispensation for that, basically because of their size. They have to have a Cup competition though, which is why every year FC Vaduz hammer someone 8-0 in the final.


They're dead right to be looking to somehow circumvent the wage cap. It's an unfair system, conceptualised to stop crazy chairmen committing financial suicide. All things are not equal in the world of football and to try create this situation is ridiculous. At this moment in time Pats, Bohs, Drogs and Cork have all the cash. We may not like it but we have to accept it. We can all bleet on about the perils of property developers but this is the route that these clubs have chosen take. Be it on their heads if they fail.

The reality is that the eircom league's top clubs are competing for players with clubs in England's league 1 and 2 . How can they compete with a wage cap slapped on their heads? Isolated national wage caps are nonsense as competition is not limited to Ireland. With proper punishments for insolvency, wreckless trading or any financial irregularities, wage caps wouldn't be necessary. In other words, clubs need to have enough sense themsleves to know what wages they can afford. If they don't then it's their necks on the line.
Wow. This has to be one of the stupidest posts on foot.ie in a while. And the gas thing is, you actually hit the nail on the head when you say "conceptualised to stop crazy chairmen committing financial suicide", but you then argue in favour of letting this happen?!

Implosions like Shels and Dublin City plunge the league into farce, prevent steady growth and give barstoolers and the media another reason to knock it. The league has now lost - possibly forever - the possibility of a strong Shels side, for example. You won't find clubs coming into the league who can get even 1000 attendances (Wexford did well this season, but once the novelty factor wears off, their attendances will fade away), and now the league has let one die at the hands of a director on an ego trip. The league is weaker because Shels are gone, but you reckon Drogheda, St Pat's, Bohs, Cork, whoever else is in this group, should be allowed spend to their hearts' content until they reach the exact same situation?!

You also say Pat's, Drogs, etc have the cash. Not true. The backers have the cash. Big difference. If the club had the cash, they wouldn't be running up huge losses spending it.

[Not Brazil]

The only thing is though there is a secetarian element in the IFA who would not touch this with a barge pole. They would prefer to carry on as a poor league rather than merge with "fenians".

:D

Brilliant.

I always look forward to your incisive and informed contributions to such threads.

[Not Brazil]

Oh ffs! :rolleyes:

I can see the WC Qualifiers being somewhat costly for the IFA.

The GAA are no dozers.;)

[DmanDmythDledge]

The fairest way would be through sporting merit. Say the top 6 teams in the eL and top 4 in the IL gain automatic entry to the new league. Then a mini league (like the champions league or setanta cup 1st round) could supply the remaining 6 teams. The big problem with this would be the differences in the playing seasons. Perhaps there'll be a year of 'spring soccer' (IL starts earlier, eL starts later or vv) before all teams migrate to either summer or winter football in the brand new league?
Seeing as it's the "big clubs" leading the way with the AIL League they'll make up some criteria that will ensure they all get in.

[backstothewall]

On the question of how this affects the national teams, has it not been pointed out in the past that a national league is not required as long as a national association and national cup competition remains? Basically as long as the FAI and IFA cups are still played for the national teams will not be affected. Isn't this what happens in some of the smaller countries like Andorra? Sorry if I'm totally wrong, but nearly sure it was mentioned before.

FIFA have also allowed a precident in allowing Toronto FC to play in MLS with no penalisation of the Canadian or American national sides.

[DmanDmythDledge]

FIFA have also allowed a precident in allowing Toronto FC to play in MLS with no penalisation of the Canadian or American national sides.
That's special dispensation though. FIFA are hardly going to allow this country dispensation because of few clubs cried about the wage cap.

[pineapple stu]

FIFA have also allowed a precident in allowing Toronto FC to play in MLS with no penalisation of the Canadian or American national sides.
Ditto that New Zealand team in the A League.

I assume Jim Roddy's behind all this? If so, it's about ten times further away than this mysterious group is making out.

[backstothewall]

That's special dispensation though. FIFA are hardly going to allow this country dispensation because of few clubs cried about the wage cap.

Thats a point. Colin Healy will know all to well that a rule for one isn't always the same for another. (Javier Mascherano probably has no idea though)

That said, theres a lot of good will in the international community for this sort of thing. Bertie, Ian and Martin could get it done with a few phone calls if it came to the bit. If it is presented as a football helping moves towards peace the "fair play" and "football for hope" mobs in FIFA would lap it up. Just as they did everything they could do to convince North Korea to host a game in the 2002 World Cup.

[sonofstan]

Just had a conversation at work with two colleagues about this (on foot of the piece in the paper) - both nominally LoI fans (Bohs and Dundalk) although i doubt either have been to a match in 10 years; both asked me in tones of disgust if I'd like to see Linfield in Dalymount...... I said yes of course, and that i felt I had more in common with Linfield/ Glens fans than Celtic fans from Dublin; this provoked derision. Thing is, both are SF voters - they want a united Ireland, but are squeamish at the idea of a south Belfast team in an all -Ireland league; makes you wonder what kind of republic they want....

What I'd be afraid is that it would raise all these atavistic feelings outside the cohort of current LoI/IL supporters

[LeviathanNI]

Through the Setanta Cup, we in the Island have had a load of exposure to each other, and in doing so, a lot of the bogey men have been proven false. At the end of the day we all are what we are.

I truely believe an AIL could work very easily, and in fact, I also think the FAs might welcome another body running senior football (with their blessing obviously).. as it would give them the chance to stick to what they really care about ie the National teams. Other countrys manage to do it, and with the amount of football teams here, in both leagues, a Northern Ireland Championship and Rep of Ireland Championship could still be run under the auspices of the FA's, and the winners could be promoted to the AIL (provided they meet standards set of course).

At the end of the day I want my club to be the best it can be, and if that means moving to an AIL set up, then so be it.. but I support my club and country, and so the National team stuff needs to be the first thing on the agenda to be sorted. There would be no point leaving it till last, with everything agreed, only to find out UEFA have said that we could only have one team, it would waste money and would mean the immediate pull out of nearly all IL teams invited.

BTW thanks KingdomKerry for the laugh.. never, even in your weird roundabout way, thought we would be called a fenian team.. the times certainly have moved on (goes outside to make sure that it is the Union flag on the flagpole on the house);):D

[exiled_gufc_fan]

There was also a story on this in yesterday's Belfast Telegraph:

"Secret All-Ireland league talks at 'advanced' stage

Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Advanced discussions about the introduction of an All Ireland soccer league have taken place between clubs from both sides of the border and interested stakeholders, with the intention of drafting a New Year proposal that will be too good for the FAI and IFA to refuse.

Top eircom League sides have been involved in secret talks with counterparts in Northern Ireland and with the backing of significant third party encouragement in the hope of bringing the project to fruition."

Rest of the story at: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/article3242236.ece

Much the same story - it is an Independent News & Media publication too.

[dublinred]

I would agree with Not Brazil. Strongly in favour of AIL but on the basis that the two national teams remain. If they don't remain it won't happen, simple as that.

Not sure whether Wales is a country or a provience of England these days , but Cardiff and Swansea have being playing in the English league for years despite there being a Welsh league and there is no problems with the national team apart from the obvious that neither win very much these days. I think the AIL would be great a top divsion of 20 teams would avoid having to play the other teama 3/4 times and as previously suggested 2 lower divsion on a regional basis wih playoffs for promotion and relegation would work.

[MariborKev]

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1212/breaking13.htm

This is the one I had heard the rumours about.....

[pete]

This seems to be a very serious proposal. It is clear clubs are seeking new means of boosting revenue as they don't see any potential in the status quo. Clearly some people see potential in the league. IMO some business people have probably see the bargain transfer fee deals in recent season & realise that some talent in the league & with more professional base could increase those fees substancially.

[dcfcsteve]

I suppose you're right as far as Derry City are concerned, but arguably they are in the Eircom and suffering any associated financial inequality against other Eircom teams, by choice. That is, they could always opt* to return to the Irish League.


Correction - City had NO choice when we joined the LOI in 1985, as the IFA repeatedly rejected our advances to rejoin the IL. It's only recently since you've all seen the potential and colour the team brings to a league that you're keen to have us in - shallow b@stards.

Since the FAI were so gratioous as to bring us back to life, we haven't a bean of intention of snubbing their kindness by going back to bed-down with the dinosaurs of the IFA/Irish League Management Committee. Also - the EL is a league going places - mostly upwards - whilst the IL continues to be on a slow downwards descent, so we have no real choice with an eye to the future either.

So in reality - we had no choice at the start, and we still effectively have no choice now. Tough titties IL - we won't be back.

[Blanchflower]

Correction - City had NO choice when we joined the LOI in 1985, as the IFA repeatedly rejected our advances to rejoin the IL. It's only recently since you've all seen the potential and colour the team brings to a league that you're keen to have us in - shallow b@stards.

Not a correction, since EG was talking in the present, and - as you admit - the IFA would not now block Derry City's return to NI football.
(Incidentally, was it not the League that blocked Derry's return?)

[Réiteoir]

Not sure whether Wales is a country or a provience of England these days , but Cardiff and Swansea have being playing in the English league for years despite there being a Welsh league.

Not strictly correct there londonred

Cardiff, Swansea, Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare Athletic, Newport AFC, Wrexham and Colwyn Bay have played in the English Leagues for the past century or so.

Before 1992 Wales had no national league of it's own - and had to set one up under pressure from UEFA.

They had a "Welsh Cup" which is still played today - but prior to 1992 allowed English clubs from the Border Counties to play in it with the winners (or the highest fnishing Welsh club if an English team won it) going into the European Cup Winners' Cup - I remember Worcester City taking on Barry Town, Swansea and Cardiff regularly in it.

The formation of the League of Wales saw the start of a bitter dispute between the Football Association of Wales (FAW) and those non-English League clubs who wanted to remain part of the English football league. The 'Irate Eight', as they were dubbed, consisted of Bangor City, Barry Town, Caernarfon Town, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport County, Newtown and Rhyl.

Prior to the inaugural season, Bangor City, Newtown and Rhyl returned to play in Wales. However as Rhyl's application to join the league was late, they were placed in the second level of the pyramid system. Because of FAW sanctions, the remaining five clubs were forced to play their home matches in England. Following a season in exile at Worcester City, five became four, as Barry Town joined the Welsh league system.

A court ruling in 1995 allowed the remaining four clubs to return to Wales to play their home matches while still remaining within the English system; despite this victory, Caernarfon Town decided to join the League of Wales.

However, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil and Newport County remain in the English league pyramid system.

[dcfcsteve]

Not strictly correct there londonred

Cardiff, Swansea, Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare Athletic, Newport AFC, Wrexham and Colwyn Bay have played in the English Leagues for the past century or so.

Before 1992 Wales had no national league of it's own - and had to set one up under pressure from UEFA.

They had a "Welsh Cup" which is still played today - but prior to 1992 allowed English clubs from the Border Counties to play in it with the winners (or the highest fnishing Welsh club if an English team won it) going into the European Cup Winners' Cup - I remember Worcester City taking on Barry Town, Swansea and Cardiff regularly in it.

The formation of the League of Wales saw the start of a bitter dispute between the Football Association of Wales (FAW) and those non-English League clubs who wanted to remain part of the English football league. The 'Irate Eight', as they were dubbed, consisted of Bangor City, Barry Town, Caernarfon Town, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil, Newport County, Newtown and Rhyl.

Prior to the inaugural season, Bangor City, Newtown and Rhyl returned to play in Wales. However as Rhyl's application to join the league was late, they were placed in the second level of the pyramid system. Because of FAW sanctions, the remaining five clubs were forced to play their home matches in England. Following a season in exile at Worcester City, five became four, as Barry Town joined the Welsh league system.

A court ruling in 1995 allowed the remaining four clubs to return to Wales to play their home matches while still remaining within the English system; despite this victory, Caernarfon Town decided to join the League of Wales.

However, Colwyn Bay, Merthyr Tydfil and Newport County remain in the English league pyramid system.


To build on that, the League of Wales was only created in 1992 as a pre-emptive defensive measure by the FAW to protect their presence in the UK's permanent seat on FIFA bodies, which is often under attack from less well reprsented regions (particularly Africa).

This whole 'league to have an international team' issue is a complete red herring, as it's very easily surmountable. You could have an all-island league, and then at some sort of level underneath individual leagues north and south, and that would be suffice. As it is the FA's themselves that nominate which teams take their Euro slots, thewy could nominate the teams for the AIL.

The bigger issue anyway is that, as we have a unique history, I have no doubt whatsoever that we would receive special dispensation - even if there was a perceived problem.

[dcfcsteve]

Not a correction, since EG was talking in the present, and - as you admit - the IFA would not now block Derry City's return to NI football.
(Incidentally, was it not the League that blocked Derry's return?)

As I said - we have no choice. The 'choice' of leaving the progressive nature of the EL, which gave us a home when our own supposed footballing authorities wouldn't, and returning to the increasing shambles that is the IL is in reality not a real choice. Just because the IL long for our return doesn't make it a valid option for our club.

The IFA and ILMC were two parts of the same system that existsed in 1970's northern Irish football. Harry Cavan (President of IFA for about 30 years, and general bigot) played a key individual role in determining the Brandywell as unsuitable for European football as far back as 1964, and in us not making it back into football once we were out. The IFA then went and named a youth cup after him to honour his wisdom...... :o

But we digress.....

[dcfcsteve]

The plot thickens :




There was confusion last night over moves to develop an All-Ireland League as it emerged that, in addition to preliminary work by some Southern clubs to explore the possibility of establishing a 32-county top flight, a second, apparently more advanced, process is under way.

It is understood Fintan Drury, who heads up the Irish end of the British-based sports agency Platinum One and also advises St Patrick's Athletic owner Garrett Kelleher, has been working on a business plan for a league involving the leading clubs from both sides of the Border.

Drury could not be contacted for comment last night but is said to have recruited the former Derry City managing director Jim Roddy to work on the process and both men have held meetings with representatives of clubs as well as a number of politicians to gauge support for the new league.

Officials at several clubs confirmed Drury's involvement and there appears to be plenty of enthusiasm for his proposals.

It seems Drury intends that Platinum One, a company traditionally associated with player management and organising tours and tournaments involving clubs like Manchester United, Barcelona and Seville, would play a central role in the scheme.

The company would source the money to start the new league and would presumably handle commercial and broadcasting aspects of its operation.

The move has become public as club officials confirmed a second process has reached the point where four representatives of clubs in the South have been asked to approach selected Northern outfits this side of Christmas with a view to talks.

This second initiative is the product of five meetings held in Dublin over the last two months. Most have been held in the IFSC offices of Arkaga, the company that owns Cork City, and initially the group was limited to a few of the League of Ireland's big clubs but has been steadily expanding.

One of the early intentions of this group appears to have been to look at ways of challenging the league's new rules on the percentage of turnover that can be paid to players, though that move appears to have hit the rocks early on as it emerged a significant number of the clubs actually supported the rule.

Talk of an All-Ireland league proved more popular, though, and Roddy (again) and representatives of Galway United, Bohemians and Drogheda United were nominated to open talks with Linfield, Glentoran, Glenavon and maybe one other Irish League club.

The whole process is, however, still at a formative and informal stage, as one of those involved explained. "Some of the talk has been a bit exaggerated," he said. "The clubs are keen to see where it can go, but it hasn't gone anywhere yet."

While many leading clubs are clearly enthusiastic about the prospect of playing in a single league, selling the idea to the two associations will be a major challenge for either grouping.

Drury's prospects would not be helped by the fact his relationship with the FAI's key figure, John Delaney, is understood to have been strained since Brian Kerr lost his job as Republic of Ireland manager two years ago.

Previously Delaney had hired Drury to renegotiate Eircom's sponsorship contract with the FAI but it is possible Roddy, who has strong connections on both sides of the Border, would lead any talks with the associations.

Achieving recognition from the governing bodies would be critical for public funding and European football but another club official suggested yesterday the organisations might have to row in behind the initiative - whoever was driving it - if the two existing league's were effectively stripped of their best clubs.

This proposal seems much more plausible/exciting to me, as it involves a professional sports firm who you would expect would know a thing or two abotu marketing football products and making sports appealing.

The only question would be what wuld hppen if it didn't succeed for them. I guess they'd just leave us with what we have now, but we need to try something to step-change the future direction of the league anyway.

[OneRedArmy]

More pertinently, whose the leaky source?

It couldn't possibly be the FAI......:rolleyes:

[dcfcsteve]

More pertinently, whose the leaky source?

It couldn't possibly be the FAI......:rolleyes:

I'm not so bothered about that - these things all come our sooner or later in some way.

[MariborKev]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/article3245335.ece

Linfield rule themselves out.......

[dcfcsteve]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/article3245335.ece

Linfield rule themselves out.......

An AIL without Linfield wouldn't work in the long term - but could in the short term, with the aim of coaxing Linfield into it sooner rather than later.

If the major clubs in the north apart from the Blues left the IL to play in an AIL, Linfield would be left with the crumbs of a league. Especially if the new league was launched with great razz-matazz, TV coverage, decent crowds etc, I wouldn't see it taking long before Linfield got involved.

It would be a difficult start without the Blues, but there shouldn't be any single-club veto on a proposal like this (feckin' Unionists with their vetoes..... ;) )

[Steve Bruce]

I think Linfield being part of it would create more razz-matazz than any other single club.

Whether some people like to admit it or not, Linfield are regarded as the biggest, most successful, most recognisable club on this island.

I'm happy with this announcement, But if an AIL still goes forward, good luck, I'll still be watching Linfield dominate Irish League football as per usual.

PS: If Linfield don't agree, neither with Glentoran and visa versa.

[Blanchflower]

As I said - we have no choice.

You do have a choice - and you choose to stay in the Southern league.


The 'choice' of leaving the progressive nature of the EL, which gave us a home when our own supposed footballing authorities wouldn't, and returning to the increasing shambles that is the IL is in reality not a real choice. Just because the IL long for our return doesn't make it a valid option for our club.

It is a real choice - what you are saying, though, is that the reasons for choosing to stay in the Southern league greatly outweigh those for re-joining the Irish League.


The IFA and ILMC were two parts of the same system that existsed in 1970's northern Irish football. Harry Cavan (President of IFA for about 30 years, and general bigot) played a key individual role in determining the Brandywell as unsuitable for European football as far back as 1964, and in us not making it back into football once we were out.


The Irish League blocked your re-entry to the League: not the IFA. Derry City remained a member of the IFA even after it left the League. (Presumably it left the IFA in 1985?)

[OneRedArmy]

Oh sweet Jesus not again :eek::rolleyes:

[Steve Bruce]

hardly relevevant lads to an AIL.

[passerrby]

someone is drip feeding this twaddle to the papers ( i wonder who ) in the hope that this will grow legs but when it comes down to it there is no support from the eircom league which by the way is 22 clubs or the irish league ,the FAI or IFA . a number of the so called big clubs are attempting to get there hands on more money at the expense of everybody else, f*"k im

[Tony_Montana]

Monaghan fans should not be try and hold the rest of the league back, we are true warriors in the very ancient form. Monaghan will and you will always play the role of the submissive weaker pray and bow to us. Your cessation of existence grows closer as you type my friend.

[passerrby]

it is or right nay our duty to remind you fools that your king (roddy) is in fact wearing no clothes