Arie Haan

[Rebel11]

Yeah God help us if Robbie ever got regular decent support

So the lack of support has been the reason he has been so crap??

So explain to me why Healy up north broke the record for the most goals scored for a Euro Qualifying campaign? Is it because he has the support of a world class midfield?

[NeilMcD]

If you dont know the answer of thta rebel you do dont much about football.First thing is that Sanchez built the team around Healy. He made sure he got a big man in, he did not always pick the best player to partner Healy but the best man for Healy to score. He also made sure he got players who would get plenty of crosses in and he played pretty direct football. Healy then used his skill to read the knock downs and bits and pieces and has done well because he is a top finisher.

Northern Ireland had a simple game plan pretty much like we did under Charlton. Ireland under Staunton were a shambles, where all the players had no gameplan and had to make it up on the spot.

[eekers]

Keane had been on fire this season for spurs.
Got a classy goal against wales too.

You cant judge anyone from their performances under Stan.

[gustavo]

So the lack of support has been the reason he has been so crap??

So explain to me why Healy up north broke the record for the most goals scored for a Euro Qualifying campaign? Is it because he has the support of a world class midfield?
No its because the whole team is based around getting the ball to him

[Rebel11]

If you dont know the answer of thta rebel you do dont much about football.First thing is that Sanchez built the team around Healy. He made sure he got a big man in, he did not always pick the best player to partner Healy but the best man for Healy to score. He also made sure he got players who would get plenty of crosses in and he played pretty direct football. Healy then used his skill to read the knock downs and bits and pieces and has done well because he is a top finisher.

Northern Ireland had a simple game plan pretty much like we did under Charlton. Ireland under Staunton were a shambles, where all the players had no gameplan and had to make it up on the spot.

Firstly Neil I know plenty about football as I have played it to a high level for must of my life, the main reason the North did well in the qualifying campaign is because of heart and pride, on paper our team is far better then them. You cant blame everything on Stan, the team also has to take a lot of it, we cant just put it down to its all Kerr’s fault or its all Stan’s fault, I know Stan did not have a clue but Robbie is the Captain on this Country and does not play like it, Does He? even under Kerr he was rubbish, I know the guy has the talent and it kills me when he plays so poor for us, yet is banging them in for spurs, And Healy tries hes guts out for the North the amount of goals he has made out of nothing, crackers from outside the box.

[citizenerased]

first of all. its the managers job to get the best out of the players..so in that regard you can blame stan and kerr...our downfall in the euro qualifiers was down to tactical naivity and incompetence by stan, the players heart cannot be questioned in most of the games, but their apparent cluelessness and the lack of a definite gameplan can, which again stems from the manager...As for Robbie, he is not a captain, and he has enough pressure on him to score goals without being given the captains armband

[NeilMcD]

I agree Keane has not been as good as he is at Spurs for Ireland for a while now but it is nothing to do with him not trying. Keane in many ways trys too hard. Tony Cascarino played football at the highest level and knew nothing about football.

Arigo Sachi and Mouinhio and Brian Kerr played football at a very low level and they know way more than Cascarino, and Barry Venison.

[Rebel11]

Neil thanks for that wisdom, Robbie has been ****e for Ireland because he has been trying too hard. You must be a football expert

[eekers]

he scored a goal in the last game

he generally plays well for ireland but has missed some chances in a few games under stan.

he misses chances for spurs too its just theyre not the only chance in the match usually and arent put under the same spotlight

[Flawless]

He is the best Player we have, lets be honest about it, he had a few bad games under stan, but who didnt?

[eekers]

richard dunne

and perhaps stan's significant other

[geysir]

Arie Haan thinks Robbie is a thing of beauty :)

I´d regard it as a major issue for the manager to address, why our beautiful goalscorer is not scoring goals for his country when he is doing well for his club.
The question is could Arie transfer his philosophy to a rejuvinated Irish team, retaining possesion, controlling a game and creating goalscoring chances from a position of control.

[eekers]

his agent seems to be overdoing it a little, following the money perhaps

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-29-2007/0004713461&EDATE=

[stojkovic]

Who did he win FIVE European Cups with ?

THREE with Ajax, who else ?

Is he lying on his CV like we all do ?

[geysir]

The agent is doing his homework, looks like he has been checking out the level of the Venables discontent factor on here because that is not so evident in the newspapers.

[stojkovic]

Ah he is referring to the two CWC's he won with Anderlecht.

Bit cheeky that, sure doesnt everyone have one of those.

[geysir]

Who did he win FIVE European Cups with ?

THREE with Ajax, who else ?

Is he lying on his CV like we all do ?

No, a 5 time European cup winner

3 European cups
2 European cup winners.

I see his agent has dropped the reference of when I played against Ireland
to when I played against Liam Brady.
He didn´t play against Ireland AFAIK.

[citizenerased]

deffo would like haan..shake up the team abit..

[Noelys Guitar]

The Haan applies for Ireland job is the most read story (Irish politics, World news, Sport) on the online Irish Times site.

[Stuttgart88]

The agent is doing his homework, looks like he has been checking out the level of the Venables discontent factor on here because that is not so evident in the newspapers.
Did anyone email his agent? His address is on the web.

I was thinking of it but then realised I didn't know what to say!

[citizenerased]

whats his email address?

[Stuttgart88]

At bottom of this article. Mark Mullan is his name.

http://www.itnews.it/2007/1127113001534/dutch-football-legend-announces-interest-in-ireland-manager-s-job.html

[stojkovic]

No, a 5 time European cup winner

3 European cups
2 European cup winners.

I see his agent has dropped the reference of when I played against Ireland
to when I played against Liam Brady.
He didn´t play against Ireland AFAIK.

His last game for the Oranje was in June 1980. Three months before Lawro's diving header at Lansdowne. Checked on www.voetbalstats.nl its all in double dutch though.

[tetsujin1979]

His last game for the Oranje was in June 1980. Three months before Lawro's diving header at Lansdowne. Checked on www.voetbalstats.nl (http://www.voetbalstats.nl) its all in double dutch though.
Here's the list of Ireland - Holland games from that site: http://www.voetbalstats.nl/nedxi/24l.html
Doesn't look like Haan did play against Ireland, but that doesn't mean he didn't play against Best or Brady at club level.

[stojkovic]

Slightly off topic but I remember seeing the Holland-Ireland game from 1981 (2-2) a few months ago on TG4 (?) or one of Jimmy Magees programmes.

It was a fantastic game and I forgot how fcuking brilliant WE were. Mark Lawrenson was outstanding. WE played Total Football that night.

[geysir]

Did anyone email his agent? His address is on the web.

I was thinking of it but then realised I didn't know what to say!

The thought did go through my head before i dropped off to sleep last night and some people waste their time fantasising about what beautiful specimens they should be sleeping with.

If Don Givens was on the interview panel then Arie would have to brush up on his discipline philosophy.

[Noelys Guitar]

Haan played against NI when Best played. It was a 2-2 draw in Holland. Great game. Best got a bigger cheer than Cruyf from the Dutch crowd when he came out onto the pitch.

[Noelys Guitar]

Slightly off topic but I remember seeing the Holland-Ireland game from 1981 (2-2) a few months ago on TG4 (?) or one of Jimmy Magees programmes.

It was a fantastic game and I forgot how fcuking brilliant WE were. Mark Lawrenson was outstanding. WE played Total Football that night.

I was on the South terrace that day. Hard to believe now but the game was'nt sold out. The crowd went mental when we scored those two goals. We deserved to win the game.

[tricky_colour]

Surely he is better the England Hand me down Venables?

[tricky_colour]

How will it be decided at the FAI if they are split?
Will it go to a show of Hands?

[stojkovic]

I was on the South terrace that day. Hard to believe now but the game was'nt sold out. The crowd went mental when we scored those two goals. We deserved to win the game.

Im referring to the game in Rotterdam which was 2-2.

We beat them at home 2-1 with Lawro and the German Newspaper scoring the goals.

Yes 25000 went. The following year there was 54,000 for the French match at 2.30 on a Wednesday afternoon !!!

[Deckydee]

Being one that lives in Belgium, doing what he has done it some feat.

[geysir]

What did he do in Belgium as a coach?

[stojkovic]

Antwerp and Anderlecht I think.

[geysir]

What did he do with them that was regarded by Deckydee as some feat?


I still don´t know what game with Holland you were referring to Stojovic.
Okay I do now.

[stojkovic]

What did he do with them that was regarded by Deckydee as some feat?


I still don´t know what game with Holland you were referring to Stojovic.

The 2-2 draw in Rotterdam in Sep 81. For WC82.

Robinson and Stapleton scored.

[Noelys Guitar]

Soon to be favourite on Betfair if Mr Mullan's strategy works. Clever marketing. Now 2nd fav at 17/2

[Noelys Guitar]

Now 5/1 with Venners going out to 11/10

[eekers]

Now 5/1 with Venners going out to 11/10

11/2 with just 350 quid been layed on him

[RogerMilla]

Odds mean nothing.

thirst is everything

[bholg]

obey the odds - sh1te.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm totally undecided about Haan, but if any kind of campaign can be orchestrated to get a decent candidate (or more than one) into the public frame against a seemingly one way tide then that's fine by me. I actually emailed Mullan last night, more in search of information than anything else.

I do think there is more anti-Tel opinion now being voiced. I thought Dunphy's performance on TV was spot on, Giles was less convincing but had done less research.

[cavan_fan]

I do think there is more anti-Tel opinion now being voiced. I thought Dunphy's performance on TV was spot on, Giles was less convincing but had done less research.

Dunphy's was a classic polemic. He ignored all positives and accentuated the negatives. Giles was more realistic: Venables has a reputation as a good coach, this is a view from people he trusts, however his commitment is weak to say the least.

I'd like to see the records of the other candidates exposed to the same level of analysis.

[greatbleddyman]

The problem is with Dunphy is that as said earlier he is a polemicist. Even the odd time he happens to be right like here with the Venerables thing he spoils it.

He starts off by making valid points, building a good arguement, then ruins the whole thing by making crazy over the to accusations. Spoils all his good work snd undermines the position of more reasonable people who agree with him

[Stuttgart88]

Other candidates have had the records scrutinised here.

My gripe with Venables has been long held, since long before he was ever touted as a candidate to replace Kerr, let alone Stan.

His record has been mediocre, littered with failures, his successes were a long time ago, and I query the objectiveness of those who support him. His personal probity is questionable to say the least. Giles adds that his dedication to the role is a risk.

I accept that Dunphy sought to downplay the Dutch 4-1 victory and I'd also say that Australia's concession of 2 late goals to Iran was in no small part down to an idiot who got the game halted for a long period because he parachuted into the goalposts!

Hodgson's record was scrutinised here and stacks up well.

I honestly think that even if Venables had been a resounding success recently I'd still feel aggrieved by his nomination. Put it this way, if I had his track record I would be legally disqualified from doing the job I do now.

[cavan_fan]

Other candidates have had the records scrutinised here.

My gripe with Venables has been long held, since long before he was ever touted as a candidate to replace Kerr, let alone Stan.

His record has been mediocre, littered with failures, his successes were a long time ago, and I query the objectiveness of those who support him. His personal probity is questionable to say the least. Giles adds that his dedication to the role is a risk.

I accept that Dunphy sought to downplay the Dutch 4-1 victory and I'd also say that Australia's concession of 2 late goals to Iran was in no small part down to an idiot who got the game halted for a long period because he parachuted into the goalposts!

Hodgson's record was scrutinised here and stacks up well.

I honestly think that even if Venables had been a resounding success recently I'd still feel aggrieved by his nomination. Put it this way, if I had his track record I would be legally disqualified from doing the job I do now.

The business stuff is irrelevant. Brian Clough was as dodgy if not more so, but he was also the best British manager of all time.

I'm not saying Venables is the messiah but I think he is one of a number of candidates who passes the basic qualifications. I agree Hodgson does too, but I feel not enough is made of the fact that when given major club jobs he has been unsuccesful. Also his only experience with 'British' style players is not great.

Souness is as we know a row waiting to happen. He managed to alienate the only good player Newcastle had (Bellamy). I cant believe Dunphy really thinks he would be a good manager, yes he won 11 trophies but most of these were at Rangers and at the time that was a one horse race.

[eirebhoy]

Lads, there's a seperate thread to talk about Venables and another general thread on the new manager. It's getting confusing. :)

[Flawless]

Feck it, just give the Job to Dunphy, that will shut him up!

[citizenerased]

dunphy is right....why should we sell ourselve short...

[tetsujin1979]

There was another piece from Fanning in the SIndo, this time on Arie Haan on the cover of the Sports section, it's not online though.
So here it is:
Mods, if you believe I shouldn't be posting this for copyright (or any other) reasons, my apologies and please remove.

Haan claims he'll make Ireland an overnight success
DION FANNING

He is the surprise contender for the Ireland job and is promising a break from the past. Last night Arie Haan offered further evidence that he is different than most managers by insisting that he doesn't[sic] need time to be a success.
Playing to his strength, Haan, who has managed 14 clubs during a 23-year career in management and only one for longer than two years, promised to have an immediate impact on Irish football.
"Everywhere I go I make the teams better in a quick period. There are coaches who always say 'Give me time, give me time. You have to give me time'. I said always, I don't need time because in a short time I can make a team because I have a good eye and more experience than most. But then maybe people expect too much because you go so quickly to a certain level."
He is attracted to the Irish job because he believes it offers a chance to work without interference.
"I want always the best and a lot of people have their own ego. In Europe we don't always have the position of 'The Manager'. There is always one man beside you who knows better, who wants different players and is not involved directly in the team. In England, the decisions are your responsibility. In Europe, that is not the case, they give you players you don't want, they interefere, they are not happy with their own decisions, but always the coach is the stupid guy."
Haan is backed by a team of Irish agents based in the Far East and has tapped into the discontent felt by some about the emergence of Terry Venables as the favourite. They have cleverly positioned Hann as a break with the past and the conventional English thinking personified by Venables.
"It is thime to create a Haan dynasty" his agent Mark McMullan said on Friday.
Haan was kinder about Venables, but believes it is to Europe Irish football must now look.
"Venables did a lot of good things in his life, of course, there's nothing to say against him. What is important is that he is English thinking, he is from England and maybe it would be a time to think a little different. We have a lot of things we learned in Holland which brought a lot of clubs and countries success when he joined it with their mentality. Only fools never change their minds."
Speaking from Stuttgart, Haan outlined his vision for the Irish team which he was first interested in managing two years ago. He believes it is essential to bring Stephen Ireland back into the side.
"Ireland is a problem not, but I don't think he is a problem for the future. He told a story, he said that his grandmothers had died, these are words you don't use. But I don't think it will be a big problem."
Stressing his record in developing young players, Haan promised to continue the youth policy brought in under Staunton.
"I have worked with the best coaches ever, Rinus Michels and Stefan Kovacs at Ajax. They were winners, they played to win, they gave you the virus to win. I like to work with young players, to give them the chance and to trust them. I think young players give a team more spirit because sometime the old players like to have it a little bit easy."
At Stuttgart, Haan worked with a young Jurgen Klinsmann, later he would play a role in developing the careers of Marc Wilmots and Giovanni Van Bronkhurst, a player he worked with at Feyenoord, where he also encountered David Connolly. "I was only with him for a few months, but he was very aggressive, he had the Irish mentality he says, before asking "where is he now?"