Mick McCarthy

[Supreme feet]

So everything McCarthy did beforehand is beyond criticism then...? maybe we should have kept Staunton on for another two campaigns, and allowed him to gradually learn from his mistakes (as Mick was allowed to do).

Last time a team from these islands got to the semi-finals of a major international tournament? Euro 96. Who was the manager?

Terry Venables.

Fact.

Yet, for very good reasons, nobody wants him to take over the Irish job.

McCarthy can live on the 2002 WC qualification for as long as he wants, but let's judge him on the whole of his career, if we're seriously considering welcoming him back into the managerial set-up.

[eekers]

mc carthy qualified for one tournament in 4 - 25%
venables none out of one - 0%

[Ireland4ever]

So everything McCarthy did beforehand is beyond criticism then...? maybe we should have kept Staunton on for another two campaigns, and allowed him to gradually learn from his mistakes (as Mick was allowed to do).

Last time a team from these islands got to the semi-finals of a major international tournament? Euro 96. Who was the manager?

Terry Venables.

Fact.

Yet, for good reasons, nobody wants him to take over the Irish job.

McCarthy can live on the 2002 WC qualification for as long as he wants, but let's judge him on the whole of his career, if we're seriously considering welcoming him back into the managerial set-up.

Great couple of points there Supreme. Looks like those rose tinted spectacles got removed from this thread:D.... Well at least for the length of tine it takes Tuff paddy to respond that is!!:D

[Drumcondra 69er]

So everything McCarthy did beforehand is beyond criticism then...? maybe we should have kept Staunton on for another two campaigns, and allowed him to gradually learn from his mistakes (as Mick was allowed to do).



Of course it's not beyond critcism. He made a number of mistakes and some costly ones. However, the fact is that we finished 2nd in every one of his campaigns. There's no way he would have kept his job and been allowed learn from his mistakes had we been finishing 4th or even 3rd.

That's the big difference and why the argument about giving Kerr more time didn't stack up. We've only ever topped one group and that was thanks to Gary Mackay, 2nd is as good as we've ever achieved otheriwse and he never dropped below that.

[Ireland4ever]

We've only ever topped one group and that was thanks to Gary Mackay, 2nd is as good as we've ever achieved and he never dropped below that.

????:confused:

[Drumcondra 69er]

????:confused:

My bad, the word 'otherwise' has now been added!! :D:D

[Supreme feet]

When McCarthy got the job, he inherited a side that had just finished 2nd in the Euro '96 qualifiers. He inherited a group of players that included the vast experience of Alan Kelly, Irwin, Staunton, Gary Kelly, Townsend, McLoughlin, Keane, McAteer, Quinn and Cascarino - most of whom were in their prime. McGrath, Houghton, Sheridan and Aldridge were past it, but aside from that, McCarthy had a lot to work with. And we still found ourselves sweating it out with Lithuania and Macedonia for second place, despite being top seeds.

What could he do with the dishevelled, unbalanced squad we now have? It's a much bigger challenge now, and we need a foreign manager who doesn't have any resonant loyalties or extra baggage.

[mr miyagi]

When McCarthy got the job, he inherited a side that had just finished 2nd in the Euro '96 qualifiers. He inherited a group of players that included the vast experience of Alan Kelly, Irwin, Staunton, Gary Kelly, Townsend, McLoughlin, Keane, McAteer, Quinn and Cascarino - most of whom were in their prime. McGrath, Houghton, Sheridan and Aldridge were past it, but aside from that, McCarthy had a lot to work with. And we still found ourselves sweating it out with Lithuania and Macedonia for second place, despite being top seeds.

What could he do with the dishevelled, unbalanced squad we now have? It's a much bigger challenge now, and we need a foreign manager who doesn't have any resonant loyalties or extra baggage.

Well he created a new team didn't he ?? One that performed quite well...
If he did it once, why not give him an opportunity to do it again...

[Supreme feet]

He didn't need to create a new team, that's my point. All he needed to do was gently introduce the likes of Cunningham, Kinsella and Given into the side, bed down a settled side (rather than those bizarre, experimental formations and erratic team-selections, like playing Staunton and Irwin as centre-backs in a 3-5-2), and it may not have taken us six years of 'transition' to get to a major tournament.

As far as I remember, there was a lot of moaning about injuries and talk of 'transition' in those early years, wasn't there? Sounds familiar.

[shakermaker1982]

last time we got to a world cup

Manager - Mick McCarthy

Fact.

No matter what we said about anything or any one else


well he did have a few MOM performances from Roy Keane during that campaign (Holland at home in particular).

[shakermaker1982]

Well said Teresa.

cheers Triggs :D

[Drumcondra 69er]

cheers Triggs :D

I'd say poor Triggs' paws must be worn down to stumps now with the amount of mileage he must have got since that 7-1 tonking on Saturday!

[jbyrne]

He didn't need to create a new team, that's my point. All he needed to do was gently introduce the likes of Cunningham, Kinsella and Given into the side, bed down a settled side (rather than those bizarre, experimental formations and erratic team-selections, like playing Staunton and Irwin as centre-backs in a 3-5-2), and it may not have taken us six years of 'transition' to get to a major tournament.

are you serious? mick inherited a team that was full of players well on the wrong side of 30 and needed a complete make-over. the end of our euro 96 campaign was a complete disaster.... holland 0-2, portugal 0-3, austria 1-3 twice, 6 counties 1-1!! looking back now it was a miracle he got us to the play-offs twice and the 02 wc finals (were we performed well above ourselves, going out on pens to a spanish side who were 2nd favs to win the wc at the time) with the resources he had to work with

during his term we beat yugoslavia, croatia and holland in qualifiers. the only team of note charlton beat in a qualifier was spain in '89

[Supreme feet]

All of the squad apart from Sheridan, Townsend, Houghton, McGrath and Aldridge had at least another two campaigns left in them. 5 players to replace, over a period of two years. Not a complete makeover, in my opinion. Every international manager has to deal with retirements. McCarthy handled the job badly at first. eventually, things fell into place, but he was clueless during the first two years. The job is a lot more difficult now than it was then, and that is why he should not be given the job again.

[SUB of the day]

Only the FAI could float the possibility of this muppet returning.Such a divisive appointment, would have any campaign doomed from the start.

[Red&White Rover]

He got a raw deal after Saipan.

Mistakes were made by everyone, but he came out worst, and the media lost him his job.

I'd love to see him back...

[Supreme feet]

Don't get me wrong, the Yugoslavia and Holland games were among my best memories watching Ireland, but McCarthy also presided over some of my worst - i.e. Iceland, Lithuania, Belgium, Macedonia (twice), Croatia, Turkey, Saipan, Russia and Switzerland. For four years I thought he was the wrong man, it was a case of the FAI letting a manager 'learn on the job'. He's a Championship manager now, just like Dowie, Dave Jones, Neil Warnock etc... We need someone different, a bigger name, a la Charlton in 86.

[gufct]

Id have Mick anytime before El Tels Perma Tan .I dont think Mick would ever work under Delaney again after the way he was shafted the last time.

If Irish Soccer is too have any future that "fraud" has to be dumped once and for all but of course he has all his "Boys" licking his ass:mad:

[Qwerty]

looking back now it was a miracle he got us to the play-offs twice

We were seeded 2nd I think back then and the groups were pretty weak particularly the first campaign when it was us Romania and Lichenstein :), being seeded 2nd makes a huge difference, we're on the slippery slope.

The last 3 campaigns are really hurting us now, The Czech Rep and Bulgaria are effectively Kerr's legacy to us...

[stojkovic]

We were seeded 2nd I think back then and the groups were pretty weak particularly the first campaign when it was us Romania and Lichenstein :), being seeded 2nd makes a huge difference, we're on the slippery slope.

The last 3 campaigns are really hurting us now, The Czech Rep and Bulgaria are effectively Kerr's legacy to us...

I think we were Top seeds for WC98 with Romania as second seeds. As we were for Euro96 with Portugal second.

Top seeds lads, how the mighty have fallen.;)

[Jacktheman]

last irish manager to get us to World cup.
last time we were in the top 15 in the world seedings

Answer - Mick McCarthy

[DeNiro]

I think McCarthy was genuine and an ok manager, but he was too emotional about it. That documentary on him showed it. THere's nothing wrong with being emotional in the job, the total contrast being Eriksson, but the press ridiculed a bit for it. I don't think he could ever come back. Maybe he took that job too soon.

[lionelhutz]

Well he created a new team didn't he ?? One that performed quite well...
If he did it once, why not give him an opportunity to do it again...

I beg to differ. Some people have very selective memories. The '98 campaign was an utter disaster - Harte centre back, Keane centre back. Telling Irwin to prove himself. Awful results against Iceland, Macedonia, Lithuania. Scraping through to the playoffs in a laughable group.

Even a man called Stan would do a better job than that. And don't give me "he learned from that campaign" nonsense. Staunton didnt get that chance, neither did Kerr after his first full campaign.

We should have topped that group with the players we had

[lionelhutz]

are you serious? mick inherited a team that was full of players well on the wrong side of 30 and needed a complete make-over. the end of our euro 96 campaign was a complete disaster.... holland 0-2, portugal 0-3, austria 1-3 twice, 6 counties 1-1!! looking back now it was a miracle he got us to the play-offs twice and the 02 wc finals (were we performed well above ourselves, going out on pens to a spanish side who were 2nd favs to win the wc at the time) with the resources he had to work with

during his term we beat yugoslavia, croatia and holland in qualifiers. the only team of note charlton beat in a qualifier was spain in '89

Ya fininshing ahead of the might of Lithuania and Iceland - he's a real Harry Houdini

[Scram]

This is nonsense, there is absolutely ZERO chance of McCarthy being given the job. Anybody even suggesting this on the "selection panel" would surely realise they would be enraging at least 50% of Irish football fans (rightly or wrongly). Nobody can seriously believe McCarthy is in with a shout, even if he did want the job.

[citizenerased]

last irish manager to get us to World cup.
last time we were in the top 15 in the world seedings

Answer - Mick McCarthy

he cant even get wolves promoted, two lowest ever points tallys in a premiership...McCarthy is a cr*p manager...one win against saudi arabia in the world cup...persisted on playing harte and leaving out finnan!!

[Macy]

He got a raw deal after Saipan.

Mistakes were made by everyone, but he came out worst, and the media lost him his job.
What cost McCarthy his job was the apparent mistake of not spotting Spain were down a man in the World Cup, and then two shocking performances in the first two qualifiers. It was those things that lead to further questioning of what happened in Saipan really - kinda gave it a fresh set of legs.

As for him coming back, it's simply too soon. I wouldn't necessarily rule it out but it'd have to be a different set of players and administrators really, never mind show that he can still produce it in club management. No one would be seriously making a case now if it wasn't for the favourite being El feckin Tel!

[Jacktheman]

Wolves will be in the premership next season he is doing grat things there with a limited team and not much money.

We still the last manager to get us to a world cup finals no matter what anyboby say .. does any one think we will be in the finals in 2 years time.

[lionelhutz]

Wolves will be in the premership next season he is doing grat things there with a limited team and not much money.

We still the last manager to get us to a world cup finals no matter what anyboby say .. does any one think we will be in the finals in 2 years time.

Do we have Roy Keane in his prime now??

[Drumcondra 69er]

he cant even get wolves promoted, two lowest ever points tallys in a premiership...McCarthy is a cr*p manager...one win against saudi arabia in the world cup...persisted on playing harte and leaving out finnan!!

Laughable!! :D:D

He was in charge for less then a quarter of one of those seasons, at least try to be factual.

[tetsujin1979]

he cant even get wolves promoted, two lowest ever points tallys in a premiership...McCarthy is a cr*p manager...one win against saudi arabia in the world cup...persisted on playing harte and leaving out finnan!!
Only one manager ever got Wolves promoted, and McCarthy has far less to spend than he does, as well as offloading most of their top players to cut the wage budget

[citizenerased]

what are you on about? he signed about 6 players for wolves this season, he has more than a good enough squad to get promoted at wolves...and as for sunderland the second time he was there for 3 quarters of a season and amassed 9pts, he got the sack cos he was useless...buying crap like John Stead...donkey of a manager...he is a championship grafter manager at best!!

[Drumcondra 69er]

what are you on about? he signed about 6 players for wolves this season, he has more than a good enough squad to get promoted at wolves...and as for sunderland the second time he was there for 3 quarters of a season and amassed 9pts, he got the sack cos he was useless...buying crap like John Stead...donkey of a manager...he is a championship grafter manager at best!!

Didn't you say 2 worst ever points totals?

After he got promotion (at a fraction of the budget Keane had in the Championship) he was given a budget of £10m for transfers and wages. He spent £3.3m on players. Roy Keane has spent £35m (10 times what McCarthy did!!) on players and got tonked 7-1 last weekend. Do you think he should be sacked?

[gufct]

Didn't you say 2 worst ever points totals?

After he got promotion (at a fraction of the budget Keane had in the Championship) he was given a budget of £10m for transfers and wages. He spent £3.3m on players. Roy Keane has spent £35m (10 times what McCarthy did!!) on players and got tonked 7-1 last weekend. Do you think he should be sacked?


The perfect answer for all those red misted glasses ;)

[tetsujin1979]

what are you on about? he signed about 6 players for wolves this season, he has more than a good enough squad to get promoted at wolves...and as for sunderland the second time he was there for 3 quarters of a season and amassed 9pts, he got the sack cos he was useless...buying crap like John Stead...donkey of a manager...he is a championship grafter manager at best!!
I meant last season, look at the players he had to offload, compared to the players he brought in - Kightly was playing in the Conference! - and he still managed to get into the play offs.

[gustavo]

Didnt he lose Lescott , Miller , Seol , Naylor , Cort and Oakes before he even started

[Ireland4ever]

Didn't you say 2 worst ever points totals?

After he got promotion (at a fraction of the budget Keane had in the Championship) he was given a budget of £10m for transfers and wages. He spent £3.3m on players. Roy Keane has spent £35m (10 times what McCarthy did!!) on players and got tonked 7-1 last weekend. Do you think he should be sacked?

I love the way when people try and defend McCarthty they somehow bring Keane into the equation....Its always the way. Keane's performance at Sunderland is irrelevant to the point being discussed.
Its pathetic really.

[citizenerased]

Didn't you say 2 worst ever points totals?

After he got promotion (at a fraction of the budget Keane had in the Championship) he was given a budget of £10m for transfers and wages. He spent £3.3m on players. Roy Keane has spent £35m (10 times what McCarthy did!!) on players and got tonked 7-1 last weekend. Do you think he should be sacked?

we will see at the end of the season,.....but i guarantee Sunderland will stay up.. at least keano trys to play football....under McCarthy sunderland didnt have a full house for one match in the premiership due to his sickening style of football...he is statistcally (over a period of 20 or more games) the worst premiership manager of all time...next ireland manager,,,all the muppet leprechaun brigade are alive and well!!

[Drumcondra 69er]

we will see at the end of the season,.....but i guarantee Sunderland will stay up.. at least keano trys to play football....under McCarthy sunderland didnt have a full house for one match in the premiership due to his sickening style of football...he is statistcally (over a period of 20 or more games) the worst premiership manager of all time...next ireland manager,,,all the muppet leprechaun brigade are alive and well!!

If they don't stay up after the amount of money they've spent then Keane will have been an unmitigated disaster and a total failure.

You're obvioulsy clueless mate, McCarthy always tried to play football (even with Ireland), Sunderland didn't have the players or budget to compete in the Premiership, that's why they didn't get the crowds. To say Keane has them playing a better style of football is laughable in the extreme.

As for the muppet leprachaun brigade, I guess it's only alright to dress up as a leprachaun when you're getting a nice wedge off walkers crisps to do it yeah?

[stojkovic]

Chaps, we are tryng to move forward, not back.

So, NO to McCarthy, Kerr and Jack.

Keano for the job in 2012. ;)

[jbyrne]

Ya fininshing ahead of the might of Lithuania and Iceland - he's a real Harry Houdini

we had no squad of any quality or depth whatsoever for that campaign. it was barely better than the teams you mention. all of charltons players were either gone or were well past their time for that campaign. to oversee new young players come in and still manage to come within a very dubious belgium play-off winner of wc 98 was a major achievment

[citizenerased]

If they don't stay up after the amount of money they've spent then Keane will have been an unmitigated disaster and a total failure

True

[QUOTE=Drumcondra 69er;827240]You're obvioulsy clueless mate, McCarthy always tried to play football (even with Ireland), Sunderland didn't have the players or budget to compete in the Premiership, that's why they didn't get the crowds. .? Never said he didnt play decent football with ireland!No mate your clueless, you obviously never witnessed McCarthys Sunderland in the premiership, and their drab dogged displays!!


To say Keane has them playing a better style of football is laughable in the extreme..? Again, turn off your charlton years dvd jimmy rabitte and actually watch a game...


As for the muppet leprachaun brigade, I guess it's only alright to dress up as a leprachaun when you're getting a nice wedge off walkers crisps to do it yeah?
dont know why your bringing keane into it(saipan was nearly 6 years ago, get over it), obviously a sad ass liverpool fan

[stojkovic]

we had no squad of any quality or depth whatsoever for that campaign. it was barely better than the teams you mention. all of charltons players were either gone or were well past their time for that campaign. to oversee new young players come in and still manage to come within a very dubious belgium play-off winner of wc 98 was a major achievment

We drew AT HOME with Iceland and Lithuania and LOST to Macedonia away.

Worldbeaters all of them.

We made the playoffs because everyone else in the group were too **** to finish second.

And dont get me started on Belgiums standing in World football since 1988.

[stojkovic]

dont know why your bringing keane into it(saipan was nearly 6 years ago, get over it), obviously a sad ass liverpool fan

Alot of die hard Liverpool fans idolise Roy Keane and still do.

And other ManUre players Denis Irwin, Paul McGrath, Kevin Moran.

PS (not John O'Sh1t though)

[gufct]

I love the way when people try and defend McCarthty they somehow bring Keane into the equation....Its always the way. Keane's performance at Sunderland is irrelevant to the point being discussed.
Its pathetic really.

It was the great mans fans who brought Roy the boys name into it no o0ne else.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Never said he didnt play decent football with ireland!No mate your clueless, you obviously never witnessed McCarthys Sunderland in the premiership, and their drab dogged displays!!

Again, turn off your charlton years dvd jimmy rabitte and actually watch a game...


dont know why your bringing keane into it(saipan was nearly 6 years ago, get over it), obviously a sad ass liverpool fan

Wrong on all counts mate and have you watched Sunderland play this season? You see last saturday's game?

The only reason I'm bringing Keane into it is that he's now the Sunderland manager, has had a much bigger budget, is still struggling and is therefore a valid comparison. Your arguments about McCarthy don't add up.

Liverpool fan?? :D:D Some of us follow Irish football mate rather then w#nking off at the gates of Anfield of the theatre of shi1te.

[citizenerased]

just the highlights...did you see the newcastle game before that, as well as the city game before that? They try to keep the ball on the floor..not like Mick as a player and as a manager!! hee haw...donkey

I dont follow united or liverpool or anyone else bar ireland for that matter..might have guessed you were one of the self-righteous group of LOI fans. Do you want a blue peter badge?..ya hardly have a chip on your shoulder lad, hardly!!!

[Ireland4ever]

Didn't you say 2 worst ever points totals?

After he got promotion (at a fraction of the budget Keane had in the Championship) he was given a budget of £10m for transfers and wages. He spent £3.3m on players. Roy Keane has spent £35m (10 times what McCarthy did!!) on players and got tonked 7-1 last weekend. Do you think he should be sacked?


It was the great mans fans who brought Roy the boys name into it no o0ne else.

It was Drumcondra 69er who brought keane into this deabate, get your facts right mate.

[lopez]

...Liverpool fan?? :D:D Some of us follow Irish football mate rather then w#nking off at the gates of Anfield of the theatre of shi1te.Post of the month! :D

I'd probably defend McCarthy as much as anyone. He was doing alright for Ireland after a shaky start. He was unlucky to concede a goal in the last minute in Skopje. As for the other teams being too sh*te to finish second, Holland too sh*te? Croatia too sh*te? Yeah right. Somebody doesn't know what those teams had produced at the preceding competition finals.

However, like any manager you become stale in the one job, and I believe the World Cup was possibly McCarthy's summit. With hindsight he should have walked after Suwon. I wish he had too.

[Drumcondra 69er]

It was Drumcondra 69er who brought keane into this deabate, get your facts right mate.

Think you'll find it was Lionel Hutz mate.

Only reason I mentioned him was, as current Sunderland manager, it's a valid comparison to make with McCarthy's tenure.