View Full Version : Dublin Bus Strike
Block G Raptor
12/11/2007, 6:57 PM
Just wondering if anyone knows what routes are affected
oh yeah discuss it too if you like
Bald Student
12/11/2007, 7:26 PM
The buses seem to be running as normal past Belfield, I don't know it that helps you.
Full list in the Herald AM if you can find one, but to be honest it wasn't much of a strike. The 37 was meant to be badly affected, but when I rang Dublin Bus they told me that only 2 of the usual 8 buses that leave town for Castleknock between 5 and 6 were off, the rest were running as normal
Dublin Bus web site (http://www.dublinbus.ie/home/) has routes affected.
Insane dispute that probably only affects a hand full of drivers. Other depots seem to be operating under these terms without any problems already. Ridiculous that a driver would drive all the way out to the depot just to take lunch break.
Can't see this being solved quickly as the Labour Court & Labour Relations Commission have already decided in favour of Dublin Bus.
Sheridan
13/11/2007, 2:08 PM
Full list in the Herald AM if you can find one, but to be honest it wasn't much of a strike.
It was and is if you rely on the 13 or 4 to get to town everyday. :mad:
Not really up on all the issues (and there will be more as what the Management and Media are concentrating on), but seems to me a start would be Dublin Bus Management allowing the same amount of time as how long their timetable reckons it takes to get in and out of town!
btw, there wouldn't be any strike if the company hadn't insisted on the introduction of the new policies on Monday and suspended drivers. Labour Court and LRC are not binding (indeed LRC is level below the Labour Court in the IR process) - unions have to put it to their members to either accept or reject. And it's not beyond semi state and state companies to reject them either when it suits.
Not really up on all the issues (and there will be more as what the Management and Media are concentrating on), but seems to me a start would be Dublin Bus Management allowing the same amount of time as how long their timetable reckons it takes to get in and out of town!
From what I heard on the radio, they have changed from an hour lunch break, with 45minutes travelling in and out to the depot to a 2.5 hour break in one of the city centre depots, i.e. same amount of time in total. One of the drivers was complaining that there's 'only so much shopping you can do', so it seems they would rather spend another 90 minutes of their day in traffic rather than a longer lunch break. :confused:
On the issue, though, of starting your day's work out in the depot by the airport, and finishing in the city centre I have to agree with the drivers. Surely you should start and finish in the same place.
On the issue, though, of starting your day's work out in the depot by the airport, and finishing in the city centre I have to agree with the drivers. Surely you should start and finish in the same place.
You could not run a bus service like that. I presume it is a bit of luck of the draw but traveling out to the depot (7 miles) & back into town again is a massive waste of time. AFAIK the drivers who start at the depot are allowed time at the end of their shift to get back to the depot so they not doing on their own time. If this system is good enough for the other depots why can't it be implemented at Harrison? Maybe the drivers need some time off to get in some early Christmas shopping.
Why is it that management & staff are unable to implement even the most minimal change without big disputes? :rolleyes:
Student Mullet
13/11/2007, 4:24 PM
To me it looks like a case of people who don't like each other refusing to agree on anything.
The drivers have signed a contract saying that they'll start or finish in town if required so they are obliged to operate the routes but if some of the timetables introduce an unreasonable amount of hassle, like having to travel from town to the depot when the buses aren't running some type of allowance should be made.
It seems to me that this could be sorted out very easily if the people involved were motivated to do so.
with 45minutes travelling in and out
But it takes an hour in and out to eden quay as per Dublin Bus Timetables (and we know how reliable that can be with Dublin traffic).
But it takes an hour in and out to eden quay as per Dublin Bus Timetables (and we know how reliable that can be with Dublin traffic).
That may be, I have no idea (although if it takes an hour I guess you'd do it in 45 minutes without any stops); but the drivers were happy with that situation, it seems.
AFAIK the drivers who start at the depot are allowed time at the end of their shift to get back to the depot so they not doing on their own time.
From listening to (the driver's side on) the radio the other morning I got the impression that this isn't the case. Is this true?
Some nasty traffic on route into the City today (Blanchardstown traffic route) although in Dublin it is difficult to know if bus strike causing this. Took me double time as normal to drive to work today. Think I noticed more bikes yesterday but not a scientific survey.
Vitruvian Man
18/11/2007, 7:54 PM
This is how it was explained to me by a co-worker whose wife works for Dublin Bus. So my source is really no more authorative than that but, any way...
A few years ago the rule that a shift starts and finishes in the city centre was brought in to many routes but the Harristown depot resitsted it, and after going through differant rounds of mediation an agreement was reached.
It was agreed that the existing work practices were to be maintained on existing routes and new routes and new drivers coming into the depot would have to conform to the new working arrangements.
Thus the compromise was reached that the drivers kept what they wanted and the company phased in what they wanted over time.
In a nutshell the dispute is over the company changing existing routes, such as adding two stops to them, renaming them (from 40 to 40a for example) and insisting that the new work practices are to apply.
While I don't believe that the drivers should be dicked around in such an underhand way the fact that they were willing to sell their future colleagues down the line to work practices they wouldn't accept for themselves lowers the amount of sympathy I have for them.
I was reserving some judgement on this until I knew the details.
Reading today in the IT that the drivers are already allowed 45 minutes each way to make to & from the depot & city centre. Unions were claiming this is not enough but they have already agreed to this! I could not believe what I was reading but the Unions suggested this be increased to 50 minutes. Yes a total of 10 minutes per day!!! BTW the Labour Court rejected the suggestion.
If this is true the management & unions should be sacked for gross misconduct.
:rolleyes:
BohsPartisan
19/11/2007, 6:08 PM
A lot of the drivers at Harristown live out in places like Cavan, Drogheda and Dundalk so having to travel into the City centre to start your shift is a big difference from having to drive to Harristown.
Boh_So_Good
20/11/2007, 1:34 PM
A lot of the drivers at Harristown live out in places like Cavan, Drogheda and Dundalk so having to travel into the City centre to start your shift is a big difference from having to drive to Harristown.
No doubt there were deported there against their will by "The Man" because they were union bus drivers, while all the private sector workers had the best houses in Dublin set aside for them...
Public sector workers in this country being singled out for special oppression and misery...yes that's it!
The reason why this strike happened is simply tradition. You so much as change the brand of coffee in a CIE union tearoom and instantly there is "industrial unrest", "disturbance money", "LARKIN!!!!" etc etc etc...
Benchmarking and Partnership is really paying off for us private sector tax payers isn't it!
What was it one of these Dublin Bus parasitic greedy vermin said while standing around a photogenic bonfire (to enforce their "hardship and suffering" to the public) at Harristown...oh yeah "it's all about delivering quality public transport"...
They are off their box in the CIE unions - completely out of control.
They are off their box in the CIE unions - completely out of control.
As a strong believer in Trade Unions, and a practising public servant, I couldn't agree more
John83
20/11/2007, 2:00 PM
As a strong believer in Trade Unions, and a practising public servant, I couldn't agree more
I agree with him too. Strikes like this undermine public support for strikes over real issues.
NeilMcD
20/11/2007, 2:09 PM
My view on all industrial disputes is that I dont have a view. THe reason for this is, that the media never covers the story fairly and is always biased against the Union for some reason. THis is across the board in nearly all media outlets. Also as a society we are not a society of consumers rather than producers and solidarity is amongst consumers rather than producers. In this case I do not know the ins and outs of it and in many idustrial disputes a subtle leaving out of the facts or adding other issues in can cloud someones viewpoint.
From knowing how badly the media report issues from the sector I work in, I would not trust anytihng that is in the papers on these issues and the Unions Reps are very bad at getting their point across and have terrible PR most of the time.
My view on all industrial disputes is that I dont have a view. THe reason for this is, that the media never covers the story fairly and is always biased against the Union for some reason. THis is across the board in nearly all media outlets. Also as a society we are not a society of consumers rather than producers and solidarity is amongst consumers rather than producers. In this case I do not know the ins and outs of it and in many idustrial disputes a subtle leaving out of the facts or adding other issues in can cloud someones viewpoint.
This is very true. The recent example was the supposed "light bulb" issue in the HSE. It was clear as soon as you dug down that it wasn't about that, but even today when surely everyone must be aware that there was more to it the media reporting it as "the row about changing light bulbs".
I don't think the wider population really understands Industrial Relations or it's processes, and just how many disputes (particularly in the public sector) are about management not following agreed procedures when making changes. If the procedures need to be changed that can be addressed through negotiation.
Unions are not opposed to change - if they were, most wouldn't have recommended the national pay agreements of which the main consessions have been about change in the public sector with the pay off for the private sector worker (such as increased labour inspectorate v outsourcing*). (The failure to implement changes or to do so in a cack handed manner is the fault of the Government not the Unions).
*the one proviso in that was that there had to be an economic case for outsourcing, which is why there hasn't been much! Turns out it isn't cheaper in most cases
From knowing how badly the media report issues from the sector I work in, I would not trust anytihng that is in the papers on these issues and the Unions Reps are very bad at getting their point across and have terrible PR most of the time.
PR battle is most definitely being lost. I'm not sure what can be done to change that. Nearly every media outlet has a right wing bias - indeed with the largest group in the country it's a bloody tradition!
A lot of the drivers at Harristown live out in places like Cavan, Drogheda and Dundalk so having to travel into the City centre to start your shift is a big difference from having to drive to Harristown.
I fail to see how that is relevant. Their place of work in bus depot but because some drivers start the shift in the City centre they get paid to traveling time into the City.
I don't think anything served by saying all public sector unions like CIE ones but if it is true they already get paid traveling time then it is clear this is just a case of having a fight for the sake of it. Disgraceful behaviour from employees of a public (can't be fired) monopoly (no competition).
:(
I don't think anything served by saying all public sector unions like CIE ones but if it is true they already get paid traveling time then it is clear this is just a case of having a fight for the sake of it. Disgraceful behaviour from employees of a public (can't be fired) monopoly (no competition).
This is the prime example of people only hearing one side of the story...
John83
20/11/2007, 3:27 PM
This is the prime example of people only hearing one side of the story...
I've yet to hear or read a clear explanation of any real justification for a strike.
Several parties with an interest have tried. Either they're all autistic, or there's bugger all justification for a strike by my standards.
I've yet to hear or read a clear explanation of any real justification for a strike.
I fully expected someone to counter the suggestion that the union wanted extra 5 minutes (i still can't believe this could be the issue) to get into & out of town but I am still waiting... :confused:
It could be that the union in this particular depot not happy with concessions given previously but this does not justify the strike & those issues seems trivial. I think Management did not want to back down probably on the give an inch take a mile principle. If the union had such a strong case why did workers in other depots not join them on strike?
For what it is worth I think driving a bus in Dublin is a had job (traffic, pedestrians, bicycles etc...) but that is irrelevant.
Boh_So_Good
20/11/2007, 10:01 PM
PR battle is most definitely being lost. I'm not sure what can be done to change that. Nearly every media outlet has a right wing bias - indeed with the largest group in the country it's a bloody tradition!
The media in this country is only echoing what the private sector workers know to be the truth. What we got at Dublin Bus last week was a window into the surreal culture within the CIE unions and it was even more deranged than any of us even imagined.
It's not a right-wing conspiricy - it's the Irish taxpayer not being made a sucker by repeats of Strumpet City and thinking we have to give up our salary for the lads in in CIE unions because "it's what Big Jim would of wanted".
and now we have it starting again in the ESB. Guess who organises the unions in that semi-state? Brendan Ogle the insane Leninist who almost destroyed the rail network with the ILDA strike in 2000. He is also a massive hero within SIPTU and the Labour Party and he is a complete fruitcake. CIE unions was where he learn all this, because his screwball version of greedy socialism is the norm within CIE unions. This is why they followed him and were willing to destory our national rail network - some "public transport professionals" eh! :rolleyes:
I work to pay my bills, not to take care of psychotic cultures within the CIE unions and everyone I know feels the same. Therefore the media is echoing this perfectly understandable feeling among "the workers"...(the real ones that is, not the semi-state type Liberty Hall exclusively represents)
The days of SIPTU and Liberty Hall hoping that a few bars from Christy Moore (millionaire socialist), or Brendan Gleeson (millionaire socialist) screaming in a psychotic rage on the Late Late being a determining factor in private sector workers donating 50%+ to support the astounding muppetry in the NBRU are over. People in the private sector want to work hard and keep most of their wages and not hand it over to them greedy, delusional, selfish creeps in Harristown garage and the rest of the NBRU madhouse.
Here is a basic exercise in reality:
Compare how good the Luas is, compared to the DART. Both are trains, both urban rapid transit. Everybody loves the Luas and wants more lines, everybody hates the DART - the only difference, one is controlled by the CIE unions and one isn't.
Case Closed and roll on the Metro.
Student Mullet
20/11/2007, 10:04 PM
I like the DART.
pineapple stu
20/11/2007, 10:19 PM
What's wrong with the DART?
BohsPartisan
20/11/2007, 10:36 PM
They are off their box in the CIE unions - completely out of control.
They are not the ones deliberately wrecking public services so that they can justify privatisation! Its the employers in this country who have been out of control for far too long, its about time the unions started getting Militant. Public sector workers have been signing away their rights for years now for a paltry return. Its time to draw a line in the sand. this was not a trivial matter. If so why would a workforce, the majority of whom were not directly affected by the new arrangements have gone out on strike so close to Christmas? The new scheduling arrangements are the thin end of a wedge. Management will demand more and more concessions now.
However if you choose to buy the bulls1t that spews forth from the billionaire owned media who's mates just happen to be trying to get their greasy palms on public services then thats your prerogative.
Time for a three little pigs approach.
Not by the hair of my chinny chin chin. Stand up and Fight!
http://www.socialistparty.net/pdf/texts/busworkers12-11-07.html
jebus
20/11/2007, 10:48 PM
What's wrong with the DART?
I'll take it you don't travel on it during the rush hours in the morning and the evening
BohsPartisan
20/11/2007, 10:58 PM
On the comparison between the LUAS and the DART, they both get Public money. One has private money aswell.
On the state of public transport in Dublin - it is only subsidised to 5% of its running costs - the privately run London tube is subsidised to the tune of 35% of its running costs by the government. Public transport in spain is recieves subsidies of around 50% of its running costs. So you see, in comparison Irish public transport is GROSSLY UNDERFUNDED! When you look at it that way you can not deny that CIE workers actually do a decent job with the resources they are given.
I'm a regular user of public transport. Its not always perfect. however its better than my experiences of privatised public transport in Britain. The answer is not privatisation or scapegoating of CIE workers - the answer is a properly funded public transport system that is controlled by the workers and customers of CIE services, not appointed bureaucrats who travel around in chauffeur driven Mercs.
Student Mullet
20/11/2007, 10:58 PM
I'll take it you don't travel on it during the rush hours in the morning and the evening
I travel on it during rush hours in the morning and the evening.
jebus
20/11/2007, 11:17 PM
I travel on it during rush hours in the morning and the evening.
And you think being squashed into a non air conditioned carriage like a sardine, with people jabbing you in the ribs at every turn (thats of course assuming that people can actually move their arms at this stage) with more and more people pilling on at each stop isn't the worst part of your day?
Student Mullet
20/11/2007, 11:22 PM
And you think being squashed into a non air conditioned carriage like a sardine, with people jabbing you in the ribs at every turn (thats of course assuming that people can actually move their arms at this stage) with more and more people pilling on at each stop isn't the worst part of your day?
It would depend on what kind of a day I'm having. Some days everything goes so well that a quick trip across the city might be the worst thing in it but generally I don't get worked up about little things like that.
jebus
20/11/2007, 11:43 PM
It would depend on what kind of a day I'm having. Some days everything goes so well that a quick trip across the city might be the worst thing in it but generally I don't get worked up about little things like that.
Little things like being charged for the pleasure of a public transport system modelled on that of New Delhi? Or little things like watching people leave old men and women and pregnant ladies stand whilst they and others turn a blind eye to their horror show manners?
Student Mullet
20/11/2007, 11:56 PM
Little things like being charged for the pleasure of a public transport system modelled on that of New Delhi? Or little things like watching people leave old men and women and pregnant ladies stand whilst they and others turn a blind eye to their horror show manners?Yes, they are two examples of things I don't get worked up about. I'm worried that if I did, I might start blaming the employment status of the train driver for the rudeness of passengers not giving up their seats, which would clearly be ridiculous.
and now we have it starting again in the ESB. Guess who organises the unions in that semi-state? Brendan Ogle the insane Leninist who almost destroyed the rail network with the ILDA strike in 2000. He is also a massive hero within SIPTU and the Labour Party and he is a complete fruitcake. CIE unions was where he learn all this, because his screwball version of greedy socialism is the norm within CIE unions. This is why they followed him and were willing to destory our national rail network - some "public transport professionals" eh! :rolleyes:
Eh, Brendan Ogle is a hero in Liberty Hall and with SIPTU? You do realise that ILDA/ Ogle broke away from SIPTU and he's now ATGWU which isn't anything to do with SIPTU?
The days of SIPTU and Liberty Hall hoping that a few bars from Christy Moore (millionaire socialist), or Brendan Gleeson (millionaire socialist) screaming in a psychotic rage on the Late Late being a determining factor in private sector workers donating 50%+ to support the astounding muppetry in the NBRU are over. People in the private sector want to work hard and keep most of their wages and not hand it over to them greedy, delusional, selfish creeps in Harristown garage and the rest of the NBRU madhouse.
The NBRU are not even ICTU affiliated let along some how part of some mythical SIPTU/Liberty Hall consipiracy.
Compare how good the Luas is, compared to the DART. Both are trains, both urban rapid transit. Everybody loves the Luas and wants more lines, everybody hates the DART - the only difference, one is controlled by the CIE unions and one isn't.
LUAS is actually a SIPTU closed shop - delighted it's working for you so well.
Yes, they are two examples of things I don't get worked up about. I'm worried that if I did, I might start blaming the employment status of the train driver for the rudeness of passengers not giving up their seats, which would clearly be ridiculous.
I agree, however getting worked about the loss of community in society and of decency in ordinary people is no small thing in my eyes, and can't be dismissed as something that you shouldn't get worked up about.
kingdom hoop
21/11/2007, 8:53 AM
I agree, however getting worked about the loss of community in society and of decency in ordinary people is no small thing in my eyes, and can't be dismissed as something that you shouldn't get worked up about.
I wholeheartedly concur with that sentiment. :)
As soon as norms of behaviour stop becoming, well, norms then society is sliding down a slippery slope. I'm not entirely sure, however, whether the solution lies in publicly barracking those who neglect common decency or preaching the gospel on foot.ie. Whichever, I'm part of a two man crusade to do something about it, which in all honesty I think I would find to be more fulfilling, and who knows maybe even more important, than spending time campaigning for worker's rights, for if we can somehow get society to embrace the Amalgamated Union of Good Unselfish Sociable Talents' core values of respect, decency and above all compassion then in turn industrial relations issues will be more amicably and satisfactorily resolved.
I hereby proudly announce the promulgation of AUGUST. (as in the word, not the month ;))
I agree, however getting worked about the loss of community in society and of decency in ordinary people is no small thing in my eyes, and can't be dismissed as something that you shouldn't get worked up about.
All part of the same pot as people hating unions. Afterall, Trade Unions are made up of normal working people. The attitude today prevails that they must be smashed so that companies can run rough shod over the workers so the few owners/ shareholders/ managers can get richer while the worker has his terms and conditions peed on. It directly correlates to how ordinary people treat each other - every person for themselves; I'm alright jack get the fook off my ladder.
All part of the same pot as people hating unions. Afterall, Trade Unions are made up of normal working people. The attitude today prevails that they must be smashed so that companies can run rough shod over the workers so the few owners/ shareholders/ managers can get richer while the worker has his terms and conditions peed on. It directly correlates to how ordinary people treat each other - every person for themselves; I'm alright jack get the fook off my ladder.
I agree again, I'm all for Unions having influence, and can't understand anyone who doesn't own national and multinational companies being against them. I remember SIPTU nailing the Omniplex chain to the wall when I worked there seven years ago for the appalling way they treated their staff and I'm as grateful now as I was then that there is someone around that the worker can go to when they are being treated that way.
All power to AUGUST! (nice name by the way Hoop, you've outplayed the best of us yet again!)
All part of the same pot as people hating unions. Afterall, Trade Unions are made up of normal working people. The attitude today prevails that they must be smashed
I'm not sure that is the prevailing attitude. I'd sat more workers are members of union than not. As previously stated its just that employers federation and the like have more sway with the media, and do a better PR job.
I also despise the way people blame unions for doing stuff, when basically they only move when demanded to do so by workers.
Still don't think there's much wrong with Dublin Bus in this dispute, but has been said its the workers that feel aggrieved.
I'm not sure that is the prevailing attitude. I'd sat more workers are members of union than not. As previously stated its just that employers federation and the like have more sway with the media, and do a better PR job.
On reflection, you're probably right. Maybe views are just more polarised?
I also despise the way people blame unions for doing stuff, when basically they only move when demanded to do so by workers.
Still don't think there's much wrong with Dublin Bus in this dispute, but has been said its the workers that feel aggrieved.
Certainly in our Branch disputes are avoided were possible and infact it'll be the full time officials talking people down from more drastic action a lot of the time.
Dodge
21/11/2007, 10:12 AM
On reflection, you're probably right. Maybe views are just more polarised?
Certainly think so. Although even that may just be internet rubbish. "He who shouts loudest" and all that...
My previous union was notorious for inaction. Despite numerous meetings/compaints etc I think they only contacted management once (outside of normal partnership type meetings)
OneRedArmy
21/11/2007, 11:03 AM
Much as I depise the typical individuals who are the public faces of unions (whose self interest is firmly in maintaining and stoking the somewhat outdated "them versus us" mentality) , capitalism by its nature is rarely benevolent, ergo unions remain necessary in the absence of strong government regulation of the business sector.
Not sure if any information exists on both productivity/profit and pay levels in unionised vs non-unionised sectors, but something like this would make interesting reading.
Not entirely sure how this translates to the public sector (tbh having no real experience of working in it I, rightly or wrongly, view all civil servants with an element of mistrust).
Not sure if any information exists on both productivity/profit and pay levels in unionised vs non-unionised sectors, but something like this would make interesting reading.
The interpretation would be a nightmare though. How would you classify industries/ employments for starters before you even get onto the outcomes. After all, some would see high profitability and low pay as good thing, other's would see that as the workers not getting their fair share, and vica versa. Then you'd also have the working conditions, bonuses etc.
It'd be the stupid "average pay" arguments times about 100! :D
OneRedArmy
21/11/2007, 11:39 AM
The interpretation would be a nightmare though. How would you classify industries/ employments for starters before you even get onto the outcomes. After all, some would see high profitability and low pay as good thing, other's would see that as the workers not getting their fair share, and vica versa. Then you'd also have the working conditions, bonuses etc.
It'd be the stupid "average pay" arguments times about 100! :D
I see what you mean, but what I would like to see would be, ceteris paribus, higher productivity and higher wage increases in non-unionised sectors when compared with similar unionised sectors.
This would at least question the benefit of the adversarial approach of most unions.
Remember, if an individual employee feels that their employer respects them and treats and rewards them fairly, then unions become unnecessary.
Purely utopian ideal maybe, but worth flagging that unions are not always necessary.
Dodge
21/11/2007, 11:45 AM
Remember, if an individual employee feels that their employer respects them and treats and rewards them fairly, then unions become unnecessary.
Purely utopian ideal maybe, but worth flagging that unions are not always necessary.
I don't think anyone has claimed that unions are neccessary in utopia in fairness...
But in real world industrial politik, they are most definitely needed
Boh_So_Good
21/11/2007, 12:03 PM
On the comparison between the LUAS and the DART, they both get Public money. One has private money aswell.
But the lads at Luas do not do stuff like shut down the entire system because one of their son's gets caught fiddling the fare box as happened on the Dublin-Cork line when a rural station master in the middle of the rush hour decided to defend sonny's boys honour after his son was being investigated for missing fares. You see the difference?
It's CIE union thing - it a sick, sick culture within the NBRU - they know no other way of working than being a law unto themselves and they are not public transport professionals in any way. Just a shower who are paid by us to drive buses and trains when it suits THEM.
That brings up another major issue in the CIE unions, incredible nepotism and inter-generational employment for the sons and grandsons of CIE employees and us the suckers in the private sector paying for this system of economic aparthide.
On the state of public transport in Dublin - it is only subsidised to 5% of its running costs - the privately run London tube is subsidised to the tune of 35% of its running costs by the government. Public transport in spain is recieves subsidies of around 50% of its running costs. So you see, in comparison Irish public transport is GROSSLY UNDERFUNDED!
I am sorry but in 2007 this is complete bull**** and has been for about 6 years when the huge bucks started flowing in the public transport again. The issue is that a lot of the money spent on capital investment does not always relate to the same level of increased service due to the work-to-rule nature of the CIE workforce. The entire Dublin bus fleet has been replaced, all the tracks, signalling and 90% of railway rolling stock on Irish Rail has been replaced with new gear. So change the "underfunded" record - it's not relevant anymore.
Have we really got ourselves the level of service to match the level of capital investment? I do not think we have. How come other European countries deliver public transport services using old gear and with a tiny subvention compared to what CIE gets off Irish taxpayers?
Here in Ireland we build gyms for Dublin Bus workers and they go on strike! Go to any Eastern European country and you have manky old trams, trains and buses. But they come every couple of minutes and are always useful and very reliable. It's called a "service" for a reason. The NBRU forced CIE to leave brand new trains for the Dublin-Cork line sitting at Limerick Junction for NINE MONTHS and when they finally went into service the *****s refused to drive them! Is this normal to anybody outside the sick, dysfunctional world of the CIE unions?
Here we have CIE with loads of new kit and it's still a case of "are ye right there Micheal" in terms of service. This is a shocking waste of taxpayers money and it lies 100% with the unions in CIE who want gyms (naturally) and new buses and trains (maybe), but still want to work some lazy roster and be given medals for doing it. Ireland is a 24/7 society and economy in 2007. It's still 1977 in the CIE unions.
Consider the situation were the Waterford to Limerick inter-city rail and Hueston to Kildare commuter lines have no Sunday train service as the sons, fathers, grandsons, uncles and cousins who drive the trains want a day off. This is were the gap in public transport service versus actual service improvements are...the NBRU's institutionalised mindset.
One more thing. How come the Luas turns a profit and requires no annual subvention, while every single element of the CIE transport sector sucks in cash like a giant Dyson? The answer is simple, see above.
I was a socialist until I started investigating the NBRU. I am not joking. I am 100% being honest here. I have been studying the CIE unions for a few years now and some of the stuff I came across turned me from a socialist to the capitalist. I am not joking.
Including:
A new staircase installed at Pearse which after 2 years of complex negotiations between 14 separate CIE unions was finally declared ready for public use. Only to remain locked as the staff at Pearse didn't feel like opening it. It still remains locked.
A bus stop which was moved 50 meters on the Long Mile Road to make way for QBC improvements was turned into a "disturbance money" shakedown by the bus drivers. This issue has still not been resolved after 2 years.
In 1986 a German company wanted to build trains for worldwide export at Inchicore and the CIE train builders unions said no as it would of meant recruiting 3,000 workers from outside CIE (this was at a time were Ireland had 16% unemployment and badly needed outside investment). 3,000 jobs were lost to the Irish economy thanks to the "daycent oul skins" at CIE unions standing up for worker's rights.
ad it goes on and on and on. I could sit here all night typing but I really need to look after my heart.
I'll just close by saying I am not anti-union as such and the situation at Luas shows that a happy compromise between public and private sector can work and deliver good public transport to all. But that abomination we witnessed at Harristown last week was simply lowlife carry on and cannot be defended. The reason why this happened, is because this is the culture within the CIE unions. The are completely out of control and know no other way to function.
Like I said, bring on the Metro and more Luas lines so we can keep the working public transport in this country doing what public transport is mean to do. Serve the eh, "public."
OneRedArmy
21/11/2007, 12:15 PM
I don't think anyone has claimed that unions are neccessary in utopia in fairness...
But in real world industrial politik, they are most definitely neededWhat unions do need is conflict every once in a while, otherwise they don't get to prove their worth to their members.
Union officials wages need to come from somewhere and therefore in their interest to keep membership as high as possible.
What unions do need is conflict every once in a while, otherwise they don't get to prove their worth to their members.
If you are paying subs & never strike what is the point. I would guess most union leaders earn nice big salaries & won't criticise the government as they want to get appointed to State boards when they retire.
Still interesting that no one has been able to justify the Dublin Bus strike. A few people supporting but no reasons why... :confused:
Public transport needs large investment but paying the bus drivers more money after each shakedown won't improve the service. When Iarnrod Eireann introduce new trains the union went on strike. When the DAA created more space at Dublin Airport the baggage handlers tried to shake them down for a payout just to work in a different room. :rolleyes: Employees of monopolies (public & private) are always the most militant.
Brendan Ogle should be banned from representing people that work in critical public services.
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