The Kilcoynes - failed dreamers or villains?

[noby]

A very different case though....

I thought Macy covered all that in five words.

[Macy]

Why use 5 when a 100 will do?

[Mr A]

If people are going to keep mentioning Sligwegian fans I wish they'd use the proper term.

[Jerry The Saint]

If people are going to keep mentioning Sligwegian fans I wish they'd use the proper term.

I'm more concerned about the Shamwegians. This thread must bring up very painful memories for them :(

[Rovers fan]

JC was one of the better refs in his day but I doubt if he ever holidayed in Sligo again.

AFAIK he is actually banned from setting foot in sligo!

[Dalymountrower]

Says a Bohs fan.....
:rolleyes:

A more fickle group of fans you will not find ANYWHERE in the world.



Thank you, sir.:D

[Réiteoir]

1978 FAI Cup final Sligo v Shamrock Rovers

48th minute (first half) very dubious penalty awarded by John Carpenter gave Rovers a 1-0 win. Mention that cup final to a Sligo fan and it is sure to provoke a reaction.

There always seemed to be a Dublin referee when a Dublin side met a provincial side. JC was one of the better refs in his day but I doubt if he ever holidayed in Sligo again.

Just done some looking on the net - and discovered that JC is the only referee from this country to referee a major European Club Final - the second leg of the 1981-82 UEFA Cup Final between IFK Gothenburg and SV Hamburg.

Must have been a decent official to get that big a match...

[John83]

They were moving to a different town which was 2 hrs away.

Rovers moved within Dublin about 20 mins away!!!!
20 minutes? In a helicopter with a tailwind. It's 80 minutes on the bus from Belfield, likely as long or longer from Milltown.

[John83]

If people are going to keep mentioning Sligwegian fans I wish they'd use the proper term.
Damn straight.

[dublinred]

Just done some looking on the net - and discovered that JC is the only referee from this country to referee a major European Club Final - the second leg of the 1981-82 UEFA Cup Final between IFK Gothenburg and SV Hamburg.

Must have been a decent official to get that big a match...

He was also good friends with John Giles and liked socialising with him around Cup finals , surprised he hasn't ended up with a job in RTE.

[btid1]

20 minutes? In a helicopter with a tailwind. It's 80 minutes on the bus from Belfield, likely as long or longer from Milltown.

Not in the mid 80's it wasnt!!

Ok maybe not 20 mins but a hell of a lot closer than 100 miles in the MK Dons case!

[dcfcsteve]

I thought Macy covered all that in five words.

Sorry Nob - I thought this was a forum...... :rolleyes:

[depor]

The figures mentioned are a blatant LIE.

I was there a lot during the Kilcoyne era. The biggest crowd I experienced was around 9,000 (v. Sligo). Crowds of 4,000 - 5,000 weren't weekly, but they were regular enough. 7,000 was occasional.

Letting Kilcoyne spout lies actually plays right into the hands of GAA people who are constantly claiming that "Rovers only have a few hundred fans" as an excuse to move in on Tallaght Stadium.

good point, its becomming clear now. that gaa are some bunch of *******s. with all their talk of letting soccer and rugby into their stadium, the stadium which the tax payer payed for. they are totally greedy.

[The Man Himself]

Official attendnace was recorded as 18,000. A good crowd for 1980, nonetheless - the best crowd for over a decade, and not topped until City in 1988.

bulls******.
there was 22,500 paying costomers at that match and that dont include the 5000 who got in when the gates were kicked in just before kick off.

[gspain]

bulls******.
there was 22,500 paying costomers at that match and that dont include the 5000 who got in when the gates were kicked in just before kick off.

Otherwise engaged that day as we were celebrating the title win in Athlone that afternoon.

In fairness there were a lot of dodgy attendance figures given for cup ties in the 70's and 80's. A certain club in the south east were no angels either when it came to dividing out the receipts evenly. :D

[gael353]

Must have been a decent official to get that big a match...

On that logic Ed Foley must have been well deserving of his stint on the line for the world cup in France?? cameroon anyone :rolleyes:

[dcfcsteve]

bulls******.
there was 22,500 paying costomers at that match and that dont include the 5000 who got in when the gates were kicked in just before kick off.

You'll have to argue that with the FAI I'm afraid then. Your view is opinion - they're the ones who write the history here.

Who kicked-in the gates anyway?

[Calcio Jack]

In otherwords - what responsibility, beyond a very vague moral one, did the Jesuits have to Rovers ? Their job was to look after their religious order - Kilcoynes was to look after his football club. Only one of those 2 failed in their remit.[/QUOTE]


I never said the Jesuits ever had a responsibility to Rovers... what I didn't like is that they made statements after the sale moaning on about how they hadn't intended the ground to be used for houses etc. The reality as I've mentioned already was they they knew full well that the Kilcoynes wanted to re-develop the land.. the reason they knew that is because the Kilcoynes wouldn't of paid them £100k if they had stipulated that a "sports stadium" only clause had to be inserted in the sale terms. So all I'm saying is that the Jesuits weren't as innocent as they pretended to be.

Now back to the real question... is there a bank account somewhere that contains the money that KRAM collected earning interest... would love to know but suspect finding out would be as difficult as following the money trail of a Nazi Swiss bank account...

[geysir]

I never said the Jesuits ever had a responsibility to Rovers... what I didn't like is that they made statements after the sale moaning on about how they hadn't intended the ground to be used for houses etc. The reality as I've mentioned already was they they knew full well that the Kilcoynes wanted to re-develop the land.. the reason they knew that is because the Kilcoynes wouldn't of paid them £100k if they had stipulated that a "sports stadium" only clause had to be inserted in the sale terms. So all I'm saying is that the Jesuits weren't as innocent as they pretended to be.
That's not near enough reason even to support a mild suspicion.

It's not reason enough to suspect the Jesuits of complicity.
The simple explanation is that the Jesuits thought they were dealing with Shamrock Rovers or people who represent the clubs interest just the same as they had been dealing with for decades.
On the other hand, Kilcoyne is on public record in his evidence to the Planning Tribunals that he was well versed in the ways to push projects with or without "enducements".
http://www.planningtribunal.ie/images/SITECONTENT_114.pdf

Wasn't the first success by Kilcoyne about having an option to buy inserted?
When it comes to Kilcoyne actually taking up the option the Jesuits had nothing more to say, their ownership days were over without condition.

[dcfcsteve]

Now back to the real question... is there a bank account somewhere that contains the money that KRAM collected earning interest... would love to know but suspect finding out would be as difficult as following the money trail of a Nazi Swiss bank account...

Very important question indeed. I wonder if the fella RTE interviewed would know....?

How much do you reckon they raised ? Has the money ever been accounted for ?

[dublinred]

Very important question indeed. I wonder if the fella RTE interviewed would know....?

How much do you reckon they raised ? Has the money ever been accounted for ?

They gave a hundred quid to Sligo Rovers once when we were in dire straits and they were having a protest at the gates in the showgrounds.

[Calcio Jack]

Very important question indeed. I wonder if the fella RTE interviewed would know....?

How much do you reckon they raised ? Has the money ever been accounted for ?

This is a very sensitive isue for many so I'll thread gently... there was thousands raised and lots of 'hot air' speeches made by some of the leading members of KRAM about how they had raised thousands and/or had access to huge amounts... however no final accounts were ever issued to those who did stump up money.... so either (A) not much was raised (B) what was raised only covered administration and KRAM was never in a position to make a serious offfer to the Kilcoynes , or (C) huge amount of money (remember in 1987 £40k would of bought you a avg 3/4 bed semi D in Dublin) was raised, so where is it ??. It's a subject that has always been skirted around and never IMO been properly closed off... one thing for sure is that those of us who did give money to KRAM never got anything back and won't be counting on getting it any time soon... thank goodness we now have a club management structure in place that is fully transparent and is properly run both on and indeed off the field.