View Full Version : New Provisional Licence Requirements
Or a hint that the system is a farce? With little or no consistency from one test centre to another, SGS testers have a higher pass rate than the government centres, centres around the country have wildly varying pass rates, testers behave completely differently, and I could go on.
It could equally be that the standard of driver varies widely from centre to centre, even tester to tester. As for the outsourced ones, who's to say they aren't more lax in their testing. So many variables that you can't really make sweeping statements.
Everyone who ever fails their driving test feels hard done by, regardless whether they deserved to or not. That's speaking as someone who failed a couple of times - the extra lessons made me a far better driver, and by the end I could see why I'd failed the previous times.
According to Dempsey, the law will come in next week, then it's up to the Gardaí as to how they enforce it, suggesting a possible 2-3 month period of introduction. This makes more sense.
Farcical. Hold of introducing the law rather than leave to the whims of individual cops. We know how consistent they've proved to be in the past :rolleyes:
anto1208
26/10/2007, 1:01 PM
i was laughing at the girl on the news saying " ive got four kids i have to get to school what am i going to do now ill have the walk !":eek:
shocking she might have to walk to the school oh my end of the world stuff surely thats better than putting your kids in a car with a someone that isnt able to drive properly.
Billsthoughts
26/10/2007, 1:05 PM
Farcical. Hold of introducing the law rather than leave to the whims of individual cops. We know how consistent they've proved to be in the past :rolleyes:
Ihate gettin sly digs in on the guards as load of my mates are guards but went ove rthis morning to get my form and asked that guards behind the counter and the first one said thats not for a few months and the second one said thats happening monday.....so at least they are clear on it...
i was laughing at the girl on the news saying " ive got four kids i have to get to school what am i going to do now ill have the walk !":eek:
shocking she might have to walk to the school oh my end of the world stuff surely thats better than putting your kids in a car with a someone that isnt able to drive properly.
Yeah, because it's not like she could live in a rural area and be 5 or 6 miles from the school or anything?
shocking she might have to walk to the school oh my end of the world stuff
You obviously know the ages of the kids and the distance to the school with such an informed post.
Eire06
26/10/2007, 1:07 PM
yes they are (insurance federation guy was on radio this morning). He then said he'd expect that driver to be prosecuted for breaking the law
Cheers good to know, was worried about the insurance companies finding a loop hole there And thus screwing the fully licensed people
Ihate gettin sly digs in on the guards as load of my mates are guards but went ove rthis morning to get my form and asked that guards behind the counter and the first one said thats not for a few months and the second one said thats happening monday.....so at least they are clear on it...
Point is, they should implement the law as is, not be expected to massage it to suit thick ministers who haven't thought things through.
btw They're still only talking about easing off on those on a 2nd provisional, not all provisionals.
Whole range of stuff in the rules. Including r plates and various others
www.rsa.ie for the policy document (in .pdf file)
Randomest thing so far has been the plan to put limiters on cars used by learners. nice idea in theory but how will one car with one fully licensed driver and one provisional work?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1026/roadsafety.html
"However, he said following concerns raised about the short period in which some drivers will have to make new arrangements, the garda authorities will take a 'common sense' approach for 'two or three months'."
Either they're breaking the law or their not Dempsey?! ****ing arsehole
"Common Sense of the gardai" is the biggest oxymoron ever
OneRedArmy
26/10/2007, 1:20 PM
Do you think people who were working legally today should be unemployed on Tuesday as a result of this?
I have absolutely no problem with this law being enforced. I have a huge problem with the timeframes involvedI said above the implementation was cack-handed, but I wouldn't expect anything else from this Govt.
BUT, as I also said this was flagged as coming down the tracks as long as three years ago.
How many of the complainers as of yesterday were formally waiting for a test date? If they weren't, they can have nothing to complain about.
In any case the Govt appear to be backing down as of lunchtime news.
Billsthoughts
26/10/2007, 1:24 PM
in what way? (I think you will find most people are waiting on a test....)
How many of the complainers as of yesterday were formally waiting for a test date? If they weren't, they can have nothing to complain about.
The 6 month waiting list in some places would suggest most of them were waiting. And even then I'd disagree with you
Whole range of stuff in the rules. Including r plates and various others
www.rsa.ie for the policy document (in .pdf file)
Blocked in work! However, I expect it to be like most other things that spoofing quango produces. No point in making stricter laws when the problem is enforcement not the bloody laws.
Case in point is the drink drive limit - most caught are several multiples of the current limit, not at it or just over it. When you get good compliance of current laws, then reduce them. Anything else is just showboating, something messrs Brett and Bryne are feckin leaders at.
L37Ultra
26/10/2007, 1:29 PM
Its about time. Its probably the only country in the World where you can fail your driving test and then drive home on your own. Its madess, I have my pro- license for two years and i got i by passing a simple theory test in which I got 40/40 without opening a book. I then got a car and I was allowed to drive around on my own even though I had never driven a car before. Its crazy and no wonder so many young people die on our roads. They are simply unable to drive cars as they can have a car and a license without ever having lessons.
I then got a car and I was allowed to drive around on my own even though I had never driven a car before... They are simply unable to drive cars
So what makes you different from the rest?
OneRedArmy
26/10/2007, 1:33 PM
BTW poll changed ;)......previous votes deleted and those who voted previously can't vote in this poll.
Previous poll had 75% support :rolleyes:
L37Ultra
26/10/2007, 1:35 PM
So what makes you different from the rest?
Im not different from the rest. I was unable to drive properly when I started off and many well agrue that I still am not up to the standard I should be to drive on the roads. I failed my test during the summer yet I was legally allowed to drive home. Dont you think thats a bit crazy?
OneRedArmy
26/10/2007, 1:35 PM
in what way? (I think you will find most people are waiting on a test....)Are you saying that the majority of provisional license holders in the country are currently on a waiting list for a test?
Its about time. Its probably the only country in the World where you can fail your driving test and then drive home on your own.
Always funny trying to explain that to foreign visitors.
One good thing about the new rule or is that alteration to the existing rule is that may remove a lot of foreign drivers from the road. Irish drivers bad enough but foreign drivers worse.
Jerry The Saint
26/10/2007, 1:40 PM
Irish drivers bad enough but foreign drivers worse.
Four legs good, two legs bad!
OneRedArmy
26/10/2007, 1:40 PM
Irish drivers bad enough but foreign drivers worse.There ends a broadcast on behalf of the Sweeping Xenophobic Generalisations Party.
Billsthoughts
26/10/2007, 1:43 PM
Are you saying that the majority of provisional license holders in the country are currently on a waiting list for a test?
yes.you cant apply for a further licence without proof you have applied for the test. all further licences have limited terms on them.
......previous votes deleted and those who voted previously can't vote in this poll.
Previous poll had 75% support :rolleyes:
My fault. I thought it would totally wipe the slate clean. I'll delete the polls totally
OneRedArmy
26/10/2007, 1:45 PM
yes.you cant apply for a further licence without proof you have applied for the test. all further licences have limited terms on them.Fair enough so.
Still don't understand why the number of long-term provisional drivers is so high.
Still don't understand why the number of long-term provisional drivers is so high.
What are the figures for long term provisional holders. Figures I've heard today are 400,000 total, and of that 120,000 are on 2nd provisional
its in that pdf dodge (http://www.rsa.ie/NEWS/upload/File/822_RSA_Strategy_ENG.pdf pg 47)
209k on 1st provisional
121k on 2nd
95k on 3rd or more
2.078m full licenses
progress
26/10/2007, 2:13 PM
i have said this already,the government have not given this enough thought on the second provisional dilemma.it has been stated that your current provisional will still be valid, therefore the second provisional states that you can drive unattended.the only way they could get around this is by issueing you with a new learner permit instead because i would say if tested in court that your provisional license would be good enough proof for you to be able to drive alone.anyone have any comment on that
anto1208
26/10/2007, 2:24 PM
Yeah, because it's not like she could live in a rural area and be 5 or 6 miles from the school or anything?
You obviously know the ages of the kids and the distance to the school with such an informed post.
You dont have to be sherlock Holmes to work it out.
Well she said she will have to walk so its clearly within walking distance other wise she would have said its too far to walk.
Failing that she could avail of the bus ( yes there are buses in rural areas i live there myself ).
The kids are in school therefore are at least 5 years old and all well able to walk.
I walked the 2 miles to my school plenty of times and im in a rural area.
She could organise a lift ring a cab there are a ton of options open before you put your kids in a car with an unqualified driver.
Its her fault she doesnt have the proper licence to drive her car yet she blames the goverment people in this country need to snap out of it, not everything is berties fault ..If she got her ass in gear and learnt how to drive she wouldnt be in this mess .
As for the man who drives for a living !!! if you cant drive dont get a job driving FFS
As for the man who drives for a living !!! if you cant drive dont get a job driving FFS
Who says he can't drive?
Nice little world you live in. In the real world there are people who live miles from work/school and as of today they were doing nothing wrong.
From Tuesday they are. Thats the point. The rules are fine. Bringing it in over a long weekend is pathetic
anto1208
26/10/2007, 3:15 PM
Who says he can't drive?
Nice little world you live in. In the real world there are people who live miles from work/school and as of today they were doing nothing wrong.
From Tuesday they are. Thats the point. The rules are fine. Bringing it in over a long weekend is pathetic
He doesnt have a licence thats means he has nt reached a decent standard of driving ability = Can't drive
(If he is on his first licence then he shouldnt be driving im thinking he is on at least his second and therefore must have done a test and failed it .if its his 3rd or 4th then he has failed the test a few times so i think its fair to say he cant drive )
What a wonderfull little world you live in where people can potter about doing as they please regardless of the law .
I dont live near schools / work etc do you know what i did ?
i went away and learnt how to drive.
If someone depends on a car to get about then they should learn how to drive.Its a very simple concept
He doesnt have a licence thats means he has nt reached a decent standard of driving ability = Can't drive
Loads of ****ing assumptions there BUT are you saying that every driver with a license is better than every driver without one (Is someone waiting six months for a test less of a driver than someone who just passed a week ago?) See where I'm going with this?
What a wonderfull little world you live in where people can potter about doing as they please regardless of the law .
There were doing nothing illegal today. Stop being so patronising, and realise that your situation is not the same for everyone else
If someone depends on a car to get about then they should learn how to drive.Its a very simple concept
They're learning to drive. But now instead of gaining experience on the road, they can't do it without help. 120,000 drivers on 2nd provisionals, now need 120,000 people with 2 years experience to go out on the road? Where will these people come from?
And you've missed the point completely. Do you think its right for the government to make announcements on Thursday evening that will make somebody who has been 100% lawful from being without a way to get to work on the Tuesday
John83
26/10/2007, 3:48 PM
Yeah, because it's not like she could live in a rural area and be 5 or 6 miles from the school or anything?
Isn't that the purpose of school buses there? And if not, why the hell are we paying for them?
Isn't that the purpose of school buses there? And if not, why the hell are we paying for them?
School buses have to be booked for the year. If you didn't book it at the start of the school year, you can't use it now
John83
26/10/2007, 4:07 PM
School buses have to be booked for the year. If you didn't book it at the start of the school year, you can't use it now
Bicycles, neighbours, the husband making some sort of arrangement with work, trying to get an exception made on the school bus booking, passing the frigging test... seems she has better options available to her than whining on the radio.
progress
26/10/2007, 4:10 PM
this topic is getting serious attention and i reckon Dempsey is sweating a bit at the minute as his interview this morning with rte was far from flattering.i think everyone should ring there tds and see can an explanation be given to why it was introduced at such short notice.any normal person could see it was never going to work by next monday.these members of government we have really dont have a clue at the best of times.
OneRedArmy
26/10/2007, 4:15 PM
I can't help but think if people put as much effort into learning to drive than they are doing trying to derail the new legislation then they would have had a license a long time ago.
From an alternative perspective, I look forward to further drops in my insurance as more and more crap drivers are kept off the road. Before the usual moral outrage starts, not everyone who hasn't got a full license is a crap driver, but enough of them are.
Bicycles, neighbours, the husband making some sort of arrangement with work, trying to get an exception made on the school bus booking, passing the frigging test... seems she has better options available to her than whining on the radio.
School finishes at four. No way should the kids be expected to cycle 5 miles in November/December at that stage. No hubby about either...
I agree about the futility of phoneshows about the point remains that 120,000 were doing something legally on a daily basis today and can't on Tuesday.
Has the minister provided any stats for the amoutn of accidents caused by learners on 2nd or 3rd provisionals?
From an alternative perspective, I look forward to further drops in my insurance as more and more crap drivers are kept off the road. Before the usual moral outrage starts, not everyone who hasn't got a full license is a crap driver, but enough of them are.
And there's more people with full licenses who are crap drivers (and I'm not talking percentages before anyone posts...)
I can't help but think if people put as much effort into learning to drive than they are doing trying to derail the new legislation then they would have had a license a long time ago.
For the record this does not effect me. I just think (again) that 1 working days notice is a disgrace
John83
26/10/2007, 4:19 PM
Has the minister provided any stats for the amoutn of accidents caused by learners on 2nd or 3rd provisionals?
I've heard this question asked a few times today, and I have to say that I really don't care. We have a system where we let people drive cars without being monitored or demonstrating their competence. If we let people operate, say the train to Cork, or an international football team in that fashion, we'd be outraged.
sligoman
26/10/2007, 4:20 PM
What's up with the poll?:confused:
I've heard this question asked a few times today, and I have to say that I really don't care. We have a system where we let people drive cars without being monitored or demonstrating their competence. If we let people operate, say the train to Cork, or an international football team in that fashion, we'd be outraged.
Agreed. But if the stated aim of the measure is to save lives, he should be able to back it up with statistics. Byrne gave stats for 17-26 years olds (males), but gave no indication of how many had full licenses
Sligoman, I ****ed up on the poll. I changed the question Pete asked and removed the votes already cast. I didn't know people couldn't vote again.
sligoman
26/10/2007, 4:27 PM
sure my brother (courier) cant actually legally work from Monday.:confused:
badly thought out joke.
Just talking to a friend of mine in the same boat. He's a sales rep.Am I reading this right, they got driving jobs on a provisional? Very surprised with that.
progress
26/10/2007, 4:27 PM
I've heard this question asked a few times today, and I have to say that I really don't care. We have a system where we let people drive cars without being monitored or demonstrating their competence. If we let people operate, say the train to Cork, or an international football team in that fashion, we'd be outraged.
u cannot deny the fact the driver on there second provisional is getting a raw deal as they currently have a license that entitles them to drive freely.So 5 days later they are not allowed drive anymore unaccompanied.bertie and pals fu ck up again.i know for a fact that they have not thought about this as there will be a loophole there as there current license entitles to drive freely until the expiry date.
Am I reading this right, they got driving jobs on a provisional? Very surprised with that.
My friend worked in sales (office based) and was asked to go out on the road for them. They knew the story but as he was the only (nearly) suitable candidate they agreed. its a company car, and they pay all tax/insurance. he was set to take a test but his mother died a couple of days before hand and had to re apply to take test
Lionel Ritchie
27/10/2007, 10:07 AM
All for it in principle but the notice given is very hard on people who are going to have to make alternative arrangments for work etc.
Just a couple of observations. Among the many hard cases (which generally make for crap laws if factored in) whose stories I've heard on the airwaves was a person who'd failed a driving test 4 times and was still plugging away on their umpteenth provisional.
There was real difficulty there grasping the concept that just maybe this person had no business driving anything anywhere until they get their shop in order. I appreciate that appears cold ...cruel even -but I think it's pertinent.
The other thing that I think is becoming apparent is there is a very real reluctance out there when it comes to forking out for proper, real, professional driving lessons. Yes ...they're expensive and it can be hard to get a booking depending on where you are but still.
Apparently this law has always been there & Minister has just issued a decree to enforce it. There has been a flood of new applications for new driving tests so will be interesting to see how long the backlog is now. Unofficially Gardai say they won't enforce this next week. Minister Dempsey star does not shine any more.
Solution:
* 6 month delay & be done with it.
* Substantial fine for people who do not turn up for the test as this is too easy to do & leads to longer backlogs. Ensure you have to cancel within say 3 weeks. Fill these gaps with people who applied for cancellation. I believe currently you just need to apply for a test to get provisional renewed?
* There has to be some disadvantage to L plates so enforce ban on Motorway driving.
* Stop announcing ideas for curfews, Restricted plates & such & just announce when actually implemented.
John83
27/10/2007, 1:30 PM
* There has to be some disadvantage to L plates so enforce ban on Motorway driving.
The purpose of the L plates is to warn other drivers that a particular car is being driven by an inexperienced driver, who may make errors, so they can make allowances.
In practice, the average Irish driver uses them as an excuse to cut people up. They get annoyed at the sight of an L plate, whether the driver is doing anything wrong or not.
Because of this, many learner drivers don't display L plates. They also don't display them because many of them regularly drive without a qualified driver with them and they don't want to be stopped.
These learner drivers generally drive on the motorway regardless.
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