Are we in trouble?

[Poor Student]

I remember bragging the other day how we were assured of safety but suddenly a second look at the table doesn't leave me feeling so confident. We're currently sitting four points above the playoff place. Our remaining games present two tough ties against Pat's and Bohs and a possible last day showdown with Galway. It's not utterly inconceivable we could lose all three. Given the number of teams caught up in this mash a point or two should be enough to ensure we don't get dragged into it. Also the fact that Galway and Waterford still have to meet each other guarantees that someone in this fight will be losing two or three points. I'd hope we won't be in a dogfight come the last round of games. It's disappointing to see such a good squad lying so close to the lower end of the table come this point in the season although we have been ravaged with injuries.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Given the fact that Bray are playing Galway and Waterford are playing Galway we're more or less safe. Each team's run in:

UCD
Bohs (a)
Pats (h)
Galway (a)

Bray
Longford (a)
Drogs (a)
Sligo (h)

Galway
Derry (h)
W'ford (a)
UCD (h)

W'ford
Drogs (h)
Galway (h)
Rovers (a)

Longford
Bray (h)
Bohs (a)
Derry (h)

Can only see the three teams below us getting three points at most. Very annoying where we are in the table as we would be top half if we were more consistent.

[pineapple stu]

One more win will seal it. Just rather it'd come sooner than later. Similar to 2005.

We've actually done much better against the top teams this year, but have been very poor against the bottom sides.

[Angus]

The answer is yes. One point from 3 home games is pretty poor.

The ideal situation is that we get something this evening and are safe before sunday, as it clearly weighing over the players.

[CollegeTillIDie]

We are in trouble especially if we don't beat Galway away . I think we need 1 point tonight and another win to be safe. Ok we can take a point from Pat's if need be too. We have been beaten at home 6 times, the joint next worst home record after a couple of relegation seasons. For the record we had more points at home in 2003 last time WE DID go down. We have only manged 7 League victories this season. PATHETIC! The Cup successes have masked an abject perfomance in the League.

[Poor Student]

It's not pathetic (with unecessary capitals). It's disappointing but we've got a small budget and a young relatively inexperienced squad. We've also been unlucky with injuries and suspensions. There's no reason why we should have a decent home record when we can't muster together a strong vocal support at home. Two cup semis minimum and avoidance of relegation, I'd have taken that at the start of the season. Now I'm still expecting the latter to become a reality but I think labelling them a roaring pathetic is not on.

[DmanDmythDledge]

While I don't necessarily agree with the angle that CTID is coming from our performances and work rate/mentality have been pathetic since we beat Derry.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Finally someone has removed the skyblue coloured glasses and woke up and smelt the coffee !

[CollegeTillIDie]

It's not pathetic (with unecessary capitals). It's disappointing but we've got a small budget and a young relatively inexperienced squad. We've also been unlucky with injuries and suspensions. There's no reason why we should have a decent home record when we can't muster together a strong vocal support at home. Two cup semis minimum and avoidance of relegation, I'd have taken that at the start of the season. Now I'm still expecting the latter to become a reality but I think labelling them a roaring pathetic is not on.

Seven wins out of 31 is not a very good batting average if you wish to remain in the Premier Division. It's spot on for relegation though !

[DmanDmythDledge]

It's spot on for relegation though !
If that were the case we would be in the relegation zone...

[CollegeTillIDie]

Only Longford's points deduction has them , that far below us. Look at their actual record it's pretty darn close to ours.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Which isn't relegation...

[CollegeTillIDie]

Ok wise ass . How many points do we have? And how many do you think we are going to end up on? Given St. Pat's are fighting for second place and Galway are trying to avoid the drop into a play off berth!

[DmanDmythDledge]

You're the one who said that our points at the moment were spot on for relegation when it clearly isn't.

To cut a long post short more than Waterford and Longford, and probably Galway too.

[CollegeTillIDie]

So you reckon we are uncatchable? Even after Waterford beat Sligo on Saturday night?

[Poor Student]

Waterford and Galway have to play each other yet meaning that one or both teams have to lose points by the end of the season making it harder for both to catch us even if we lose the last two games.

[CollegeTillIDie]

If Longford hadn't suffered the points deduction... they'd only be three points behind us. Waterford have a game in hand and are only 4 points behind us. Galway are only three points behind us. You were saying how safe we are.....Bray are only a point behind WITH A GAME IN HAND!

[Poor Student]

Longford were deducted six points though. Their overspending allowed them to secure the services of Pat Sullivan over ourselves so it's all interlinked. Bray have no game in hand. Of Waterford and Galway, one has to drop three points or both drop two in the remaining games.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Doesn't alter the basic point I have been making for years that an average of 1 point per game is not good enough... and we might not even manage that much this year!

[DmanDmythDledge]

If Longford hadn't suffered the points deduction... they'd only be three points behind us. Waterford have a game in hand and are only 4 points behind us. Galway are only three points behind us. You were saying how safe we are.....Bray are only a point behind WITH A GAME IN HAND!
Longford would be level with us with the six points, Waterford can only realistically get three points max and Bray don't have any game in hand.

[Poor Student]

Doesn't alter the basic point I have been making for years that an average of 1 point per game is not good enough... and we might not even manage that much this year!

I'm not altering it. I don't look at points averages, I look at position in the table. Your points average only has to be better than the teams around you, not some arbitrary target.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Actually forget about all this we need X points to be safe because team Y could get Z points and catch us. We know ourselves that we are capable of performing superior than any of the teams around us. One thing about us this season has been that when we need a result/performance we have delivered, eg Pats away, Derry away (twice), Drogs away. When we perform to our potential we are a top half side. Where we have lost points, and where we generally seem to drop points, are the games against the teams around us. The players seem to think that as we've just gone and beaten Derry or whoever that they can just show up and get the win. That's the sort of attitude that has resulted in this unnecessary and avoidable disscussion. The players know that they can put it right and if they apply themselves we will get three points against Galway on the last day. Also remember if necessary I will be able to have words with them after the Pats game.:D

[CollegeTillIDie]

Longford would be level with us with the six points, Waterford can only realistically get three points max and Bray don't have any game in hand.

How did Bray get on tonight then? Oh and three of our seven wins were against the same team. So how many teams out eleven have we actually beaten this season?

[CollegeTillIDie]

I'm not altering it. I don't look at points averages, I look at position in the table. Your points average only has to be better than the teams around you, not some arbitrary target.

We are not even able to manage 1 point out of a possible 3 on average over the season. Stan's managed almost 50% in this campaign, for the Republic of Ireland , and people are calling for his head !

[DmanDmythDledge]

Bray lost to Longford.

We've beaten six teams and have to play Galway and Longford (and possibly Cork) once more.

[Conor H]

If we win on Friday we'll go ahead of ye on goal difference so i don't know how we're not safe and ye are going on that possible scenario?:confused:

[CollegeTillIDie]

If we win on Friday we'll go ahead of ye on goal difference so i don't know how we're not safe and ye are going on that possible scenario?:confused:

Well said Conor H. (possibly Cork) what do you mean Dmand? and cup games don't carry points for the record.

[DmanDmythDledge]

If we win on Friday we'll go ahead of ye on goal difference so i don't know how we're not safe and ye are going on that possible scenario?:confused:
I think it's a case (or least my opinion) that we're more likely to be safe than Galway. I think that both teams will stay up.

[jebus]

If we win on Friday we'll go ahead of ye on goal difference so i don't know how we're not safe and ye are going on that possible scenario?:confused:

Haven't Galway won the least amount of games of anyone in the Premier this year though? Wouldn't be at all expectant that they will win one out of the last three, but for me it will come down to the Waterford-Galway game as to who goes in the playoff. Longford have been good lately but that 6 point deduction will put them down I feel

[Conor H]

Haven't Galway won the least amount of games of anyone in the Premier this year though? Wouldn't be at all expectant that they will win one out of the last three, but for me it will come down to the Waterford-Galway game as to who goes in the playoff. Longford have been good lately but that 6 point deduction will put them down I feel

We have-fair point.

But a win against a Derry side with nothing to play for isn't the hardest thing to achieve when you're going all guns blazing for it.
If we win on Friday i'd be confident of us getting 4 points from Waterford and UCD.Which would see us safe easily.

[pineapple stu]

We are not even able to manage 1 point out of a possible 3 on average over the season. Stan's managed almost 50% in this campaign, for the Republic of Ireland , and people are calling for his head !
Tell me you didn't just type that?!

Are you actually looking at what you're typing, or are you just ranting for the sake of it?

[CollegeTillIDie]

Tell me you didn't just type that?!

Are you actually looking at what you're typing, or are you just ranting for the sake of it?

What part of the above is techically inaccurate?

[pineapple stu]

Apples are often red and green.

Red and green are on the flag of Italy.

Therefore, Italians are apples.

Neither of the above are technically inaccurate, but the link is nonsensical.

[Poor Student]

We are not even able to manage 1 point out of a possible 3 on average over the season. Stan's managed almost 50% in this campaign, for the Republic of Ireland , and people are calling for his head !

Are you calling for Pete Mahon's head? What's your point?

[CollegeTillIDie]

Are you calling for Pete Mahon's head? What's your point?

My point is the team are not performing, in the League. Sacking the manager isn't the answer because I believe once the players cross the white line and don't perform there's not a lot you can do. Against Longford more than 3 players had poor games. You can only make 3 substitutions. On their day the team is well organised and performs that is down to the manager. Collective crap performances from more than 3 players is not something the manager can address given he only he has 3 replacement options.

My point is everything is not rosy on the field and we are not yet mathematically safe.
I am fed up with the smug assumptions that I have seen on this site regarding the situation the team is in. The League record is terrible. And a lot of you are too blind to see it. 4 home wins. We got two more the last time we went down. And there was 18 home games that season... 17 this so it's not that big a difference.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Apples are often red and green.

Red and green are on the flag of Italy.

Therefore, Italians are apples.

Neither of the above are technically inaccurate, but the link is nonsensical.

Lateral thinking never crossed your radar apparently. I was making an analogy with two under performing teams. Our record is worse %age wise than the Irish team and the whole country is up in arms about how sh1t Ireland is and rightly so.

You guys on the other hand are quite content with a team with a less than 33% batting average. We should be looking to pick up a minimum of 45 points a season. That not only ensures safety it also puts the team in with a shout, if a few more points are picked up along the way, of gaining entry to Europe via The League. If you get 33% in your College exams.... YOU HAVE TO REPEAT THEM !

[Poor Student]

My point is the team are not performing, in the League. Sacking the manager isn't the answer because I believe once the players cross the white line and don't perform there's not a lot you can do. Against Longford more than 3 players had poor games. You can only make 3 substitutions. On their day the team is well organised and performs that is down to the manager. Collective crap performances from more than 3 players is not something the manager can address given he only he has 3 replacement options.

So what's your point? Staunton's head is being called for because he can't organise a p1ss up in a brewery. The comparison is irrelevant.


My point is everything is not rosy on the field and we are not yet mathematically safe.

No one said it is, but let's not go roaring pathetic.


I am fed up with the smug assumptions that I have seen on this site regarding the situation the team is in. The League record is terrible. And a lot of you are too blind to see it. 4 home wins. We got two more the last time we went down. And there was 18 home games that season... 17 this so it's not that big a difference.

Stop pulling out arbitrary figures and averages like a baseball fan. What is required to stay up will not be evident until this season has reached its conclusion. Not of us are delighted with the league record but give the players a break. Very few teams below us can exceed much more than the golden arbitrary 33% mark of yours, so some team or several will avoid the drop with a 'low batting average' to use your analogy.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Stop pulling out arbitrary figures and averages like a baseball fan. What is required to stay up will not be evident until this season has reached its conclusion. Not of us are delighted with the league record but give the players a break. Very few teams below us can exceed much more than the golden arbitrary 33% mark of yours, so some team or several will avoid the drop with a 'low batting average' to use your analogy.

Football is a lot about arithmetic. If you score an average of one goal a game and concede an average of more than one goal a game. You lose. If you lose often enough you go down. If you go down your crowds go down and with it your revenues. We are trying to compete with clubs who have bigger budgets etc. The whole viability of the enterprise is at stake here.

These figures aren't arbitrary they are the ACTUAL RECORD OF THE TEAM.
If our home record in the Bowl next season isn't a hell of a lot better than this season, we're whistling dixie with regard to attracting additional support!
With all the knock on effects that will have. Seeing as the pitch maintenance bill, for one, is going to be higher we will need extra money.

[Poor Student]

Football is a lot about arithmetic. If you score an average of one goal a game and concede an average of more than one goal a game. You lose. If you lose often enough you go down. If you go down your crowds go down and with it your revenues. We are trying to compete with clubs who have bigger budgets etc. The whole viability of the enterprise is at stake here.

Are you kidding me here? We have no great crowds to speak of. Our revenue stream is barely connected to crowds otherwise we'd be doing a lot worse than we are now!


These figures aren't arbitrary they are the ACTUAL RECORD OF THE TEAM.

Your 33% one point average is an abitrary figure. What keeps you up or wins you a title changes every year. On a year where things are tight at the bottom you're going to have less points as everyone's taken points off each other. We're in this poor situation with 5 other clubs.


If our home record in the Bowl next season isn't a hell of a lot better than this season, we're whistling dixie with regard to attracting additional support!
With all the knock on effects that will have. Seeing as the pitch maintenance bill, for one, is going to be higher we will need extra money.

Total doom mongering. Pitch maintainence will increase, why? Because two teams will play on it? A problem solved is a problem halved, obviously UCD RFC will contribute to running costs.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Are you kidding me here? We have no great crowds to speak of. Our revenue stream is barely connected to crowds otherwise we'd be doing a lot worse than we are now!

So Colin Forde's appointment is window dressing? I am giving him some credit for increasing the crowds so far this season and I am giving him credit with being able to bring more crowds in next season at a more central location.
If the crowds go up the potential for perimeter advertising and sponsorship etc, rises incrementally. The potential for being live on TV increases too.
I am amazed at your inability to project into the future that if X happens Y and Z may follow.


Your 33% one point average is an abitrary figure. What keeps you up or wins you a title changes every year. On a year where things are tight at the bottom you're going to have less points as everyone's taken points off each other. We're in this poor situation with 5 other clubs.

You were the one who kicked off this thread suddenly waking up to the fact that we were possibly in relegation danger. I have merely been backing up your points all along. So are you now backtracking? I believe that until any team reaches more than about 36 points in this League YOU ARE IN POTENTIAL RELEGATION DANGER. Because your team can go on losing streaks such as the one we are currently on where you do not collect ANY League points. I don't call it doom merchant I call it realism. I have seen teams go down on 34 points. We haven't reached that yet.


Total doom mongering. Pitch maintainence will increase, why? Because two teams will play on it? A problem solved is a problem halved, obviously UCD RFC will contribute to running costs.

Pitch maintenance will increase because 30 pairs of studs worn by people weighing 15 + stone, will obviously do more damage to a playing surface than 22 pairs of studs worn by people weighing considerably less. To give an analogy from motoring ....A Sherman Tank will do more damage to the N11 than a Volvo S70. The Rugby club will contribute to the running costs. But the surface will be nowhere near as good as Belfield Park. Surely you can put 2 and 2 together and get 4 for an answer.

[Poor Student]

So Colin Forde's appointment is window dressing? I am giving him some credit for increasing the crowds so far this season and I am giving him credit with being able to bring more crowds in next season at a more central location.

That was in response to your hysterical "the whole viability of the enterprise is at stake". I'd like to think we can improve our crowds next year, Colin's appointment has been great but it'll take some type to reap the rewards of the work being put in but my point was we'll survive if we get relegation, the whole viability of the bussiness will not be at stake.



If the crowds go up the potential for perimeter advertising and sponsorship etc, rises incrementally. The potential for being live on TV increases too.
I am amazed at your inability to project into the future that if X happens Y and Z may follow.

Again that's just potential discussion, I've no problem with any of that but you were talking about our very existence, not potential revenue streams.



You were the one who kicked off this thread suddenly waking up to the fact that we were possibly in relegation danger. I have merely been backing up your points all along. So are you now backtracking? I believe that until any team reaches more than about 36 points in this League YOU ARE IN POTENTIAL RELEGATION DANGER. Because your team can go on losing streaks such as the one we are currently on where you do not collect ANY League points. I don't call it doom merchant I call it realism. I have seen teams go down on 34 points. We haven't reached that yet.

I'm saying not to get bogged down in arbitrary targets or castigating the team. I think we're in danger but I don't want to engage in your hyperbole and capitalised negativity and criticism.


Pitch maintenance will increase because 30 pairs of studs worn by people weighing 15 + stone, will obviously do more damage to a playing surface than 22 pairs of studs worn by people weighing considerably less. To give an analogy from motoring ....A Sherman Tank will do more damage to the N11 than a Volvo S70. The Rugby club will contribute to the running costs. But the surface will be nowhere near as good as Belfield Park. Surely you can put 2 and 2 together and get 4 for an answer.

Are we debating about the surface quality or running costs? Like I said we'll share the running costs, how will we be paying much more?:confused:

[DmanDmythDledge]

Derry have a long injury list tonight...

[pineapple stu]

Not as long as it at first seems. Seven players are out per Aertel, but Alan Moore and Ola Tidman were never going to play anyways and I've never heard of Dave McEwan. Don't think Gary Beckett's played much this season either (hasn't scored anyway).

Still, more chance of Drogs beating Waterford, which would be a good result for us as well.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Not as long as it at first seems. Seven players are out per Aertel, but Alan Moore and Ola Tidman were never going to play anyways and I've never heard of Dave McEwan. Don't think Gary Beckett's played much this season either (hasn't scored anyway).

Still, more chance of Drogs beating Waterford, which would be a good result for us as well.

Dave McEwan is their other keeper :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

Why the :rolleyes:?

They've PJ.

[DmanDmythDledge]

:D

He's their fourth choice keeper.

[pineapple stu]

Who?
.

[CollegeTillIDie]

pineapple stu

He made a couple of first team appearances recently.
I don't know if Ola Tidman is even still around. He was sh1te in the only game he played which was on Telly they were beaten 4-1 at home. Gary Beckett's been injured most of the season and is going to retire at the end of the season as he told me when I met him at the FAI Awards earlier this year.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Who?
.
McEwan.

[pineapple stu]

Even less reason to care so.

CTID - Tidman's clearly around if he's out injured. Not as if the media would report someone injured for months after they'd left a club.

So the injury crisis isn't as bad as it looks. But it's still going to be an interesting evening...