Ireland 0-0 Germany- Post game thread

[carloz]

Robbie Keane can only play well with a big striker upfront next to him... either Berbartov or Quinn, he needs the flick-ons as service. If he doesnt have he tends to drop back to try and pick up the ball.

That not his god damn job. Im sick of people using the excuse that he is always dropping deep to pick up the ball. The guy is a striker and should be told beforehand by the manager to stay in his position. Its not his job to track down the ball and be the creator of everything. Too many times when we break forward Keane is nowhere to be seen up forward. I pity Doyle because Keabne must be a very difficult player to play with, you should always know where your partner is. Nobody can questions the guys commitment but his attitude stinks and taking him off on Saturday and making him give the captaincy to someone more deserving might just dent this attitude of his

[NeilMcD]

Yeah I am sure Berbatov and Niall Quinn really hated playing beside Robbie Keane.

[mackannovic]

I suspect the Spurs midfield is better than ours. A striker needs creative midfielders and now Reid is back, I am expecting more goals from Robbie but of course if he scores against Cyprus, they won't be acknowledged by his detractors :rolleyes:.

David Healy and James McFadden hardly have world class midfielders behind them yet they're scoring against the likes of Spain, Sweden, France and Ukraine.

[lionelhutz]

No matter who he scored them against, he is still top joint scored this campaign.

What an idiotic comment. Of course it matters who he scores against, what difference does it make when he scores against san marino when we're 4-0 up?? Compare this to scoring the winner against the likes of Slovakia and gaining 3 points

[mackannovic]

No matter who he scored them against, he is still top joint scored this campaign. If it was so easy to score against San Marino, then why didn't anyone else score 3 against them?

So would you say his Hat-Trick versus San Marino holds as much merit as that of David Healys versus Spain???

[carloz]

Yeah I am sure Berbatov and Niall Quinn really hated playing beside Robbie Keane.

I really dont give a damn if Berbatov likes playing with him. And Quinn has been retired 5 years so i dont understand why you are bringing him up. Simply put to make the whinger a captain was a slap in the face to senior players like Dunne, Given and Finnan. The guys attitude is everything that is wrong with football. He is continously flapping his arms about as if he were directing planes, he is always in the refs face, he cant take an easy chance(For some reason he doesnt like getting the easy goals, who in their right mind would have tried to lob Lehmann when he was retreating), he is always out of position and he has not put in a performance for us in years. Im ****ed off of people using meaningless friendlies and matches against cndlestick makers to merit Keane's inclusion in the team. Yes he has been excellent for Spurs the past 3 years, but that form is not showing for Ireland. Giving him the captaincy has only increased his inflated ego and this was the last thing the guy needed. All he needs do is look at Doyle to find out how to conduct himself on a football pitch

[NeilMcD]

I replied in relation to your comment that he is a nightmare to play with. I dont think he should be captain but thats not what I said. You said he would be a nightmare to play with and I would say most of the guys that played with him would say its a joy to play with him.

Doyle was crap the other night by the way but because he is an honest lad from Wexford he can do no wrong with some people. I like Doyle too but there is an agenda out there in relation to Keane and as I said before just read the article in the Indo today for a balanced and fair view on Keane for Ireland.

[lionelhutz]

That indo article,


The Journo then says the "worst was saved for last" when Shay was told to get back in goal.
Stan was perfectly right in telling Given to get back in goal at the end.
.

Actually the indo said that given was telling kelly to push on for the corner in the last min and staunton told kelly to stay back. Which, if true, is a disgrace. Happy with a point that knocks us out of the euros for definite but keeps our 'magnificent' home record intact

[carloz]

I replied in relation to your comment that he is a nightmare to play with. I dont think he should be captain but thats not what I said. You said he would be a nightmare to play with and I would say most of the guys that played with him would say its a joy to play with him.

Doyle was crap the other night by the way but because he is an honest lad from Wexford he can do no wrong with some people. I like Doyle too but there is an agenda out there in relation to Keane and as I said before just read the article in the Indo today for a balanced and fair view on Keane for Ireland.

Doyle has the right attitude and always always sticks to his job. When given a chance he generally takes it and never showboats unlike our Robbie. The reason i think Keane would be difficult to play with is because you never know where the guy is, he always feels he has to do the midfielders job as well. I was probably being harsh using the word nightmare but i do think he would be a hard player to play alongside. I dont need to read the Indo to get my opinions on Keane, i can make up my own mind. I would love to see the guy fufil his potential for ireland against the big teams but im beginning to wonder if it will happen. My big problem with the guy is his attitude

[NeilMcD]

Ha ha, a closed mine is one that does not work in my view. I am not saying you have to get your opinions from the Indo but in can offer a view that you may have not though of. Other peoples opinions are always good to read hence why people come on a forum like this. If we all agreed or wanted to hang or debate with peopel we agreed with, it would be a boring world.

I dont think Keane has a bad attitude problem for Ireland. I think his efforts are misguided for Ireland and the system of play we are playing is not bringing out the best in him, and its not bringing out the best in a lot of our players either.

If we had a good manager who was strong with Keane, he would be telling him where to play and what runs to be making etc and we would have a clear pattern and system of play. Stans approach is to tell the players do what they do for their club. Depite the Fact Doyle is not Berbatov and Keane is not Leroy Lita or Dave Kitson.

[bigmac]

correct me if i'm wrong, but did Keane not set up Stephen Ireland's goal against Wales with a lovely through ball? He also left a dummy run through to Ireland for his goal against Slovakia.
He's a good player playing in an average team. Week in, week out he plays in a better team and consequently scores more goals. His conversion rate of chances is not great, but that's just the way it is, and the team will just have to deal with it.
He has proven over the last few years that he is Ireland's best striker, so the question for those calling for his head is to identify a better partner ship than Keane and someone else.

I do agree though that he shouldn't be immune from substitutions.

[carloz]

[QUOTE=bigmac;790847]
He has proven over the last few years that he is Ireland's best striker, so the question for those calling for his head is to identify a better partner ship than Keane and someone else.[QUOTE]

No he has proven he is a very good striker with Spurs. He has proved nothing with Ireland since the World Cup. He manages to score against Mickey Mouse(or as Dunphy would call them rinky dink) teams. On the big occasions when he is really needed time and time again he fails to deliver.

[mackannovic]

correct me if i'm wrong, but did Keane not set up Stephen Ireland's goal against Wales with a lovely through ball? He also left a dummy run through to Ireland for his goal against Slovakia.
He's a good player playing in an average team. Week in, week out he plays in a better team and consequently scores more goals. His conversion rate of chances is not great, but that's just the way it is, and the team will just have to deal with it.
He has proven over the last few years that he is Ireland's best striker, so the question for those calling for his head is to identify a better partner ship than Keane and someone else.

I do agree though that he shouldn't be immune from substitutions.

David Healy has 12 goals, 4 times that of Robbie Keane and he's in a team that lets face it is full of sh*t.

[bigmac]

No he has proven he is a very good striker with Spurs. He has proved nothing with Ireland since the World Cup. He manages to score against Mickey Mouse(or as Dunphy would call them rinky dink) teams. On the big occasions when he is really needed time and time again he fails to deliver.

He has scored more than any other Irish striker in both club and interntional games, who is a better striker than him in your opinion? :confused:

[carloz]

He has scored more than any other Irish striker in both club and interntional games, who is a better striker than him in your opinion?
Not this argument again, look at the opposition. On the big occasions he has not done it since the 2002 World Cup. Kevin Doyle has scored 2 significant goals in this campaign, Keane has scored none. Long, a squad player for Reading, looked more dangerous in his 20 mins on the pitch than Keane had in the whole game. Says it all really

[bigmac]

Not this argument again, look at the opposition. On the big occasions he has not done it since the 2002 World Cup. Kevin Doyle has scored 2 significant goals in this campaign, Keane has scored none. Long, a squad player for Reading, looked more dangerous in his 20 mins on the pitch than Keane had in the whole game. Says it all really

Stephen Ireland scored 2 significant goals as well, let's play him up front.
Anyway, I didn't realise that scoring goals shouldn't be how a striker is measured. :rolleyes: If you reckon that Keane should be at best 3rd choice Irish striker at the moment then fine, we'll agree to differ.
At least he's getting himself in a position for chances, Keane had 2 good chances of which he should have converted at least one, so how does that make him less dangerous than Long?

[mackannovic]

You have to agree that he should be making more of an impact than 3 goals in a nothing match, over the course of a qualifying campaign.

[Marked Man]

Should and has.

Made the goal for Stephen Ireland against Slovakia. Did the same in the Wales game.

[lionelhutz]

Stephen Ireland scored 2 significant goals as well, let's play him up front.Anyway, I didn't realise that scoring goals shouldn't be how a striker is measured. :rolleyes: If you reckon that Keane should be at best 3rd choice Irish striker at the moment then fine, we'll agree to differ.
At least he's getting himself in a position for chances, Keane had 2 good chances of which he should have converted at least one, so how does that make him less dangerous than Long?

That actually may not be a bad idea. He's an excellent finisher and has the skill to take on and beat players one on one. He disappears from games in centre mid but would definitely have the confidence to play as a striker

I'd love to see him given a go up top

[bigmac]

You have to agree that he should be making more of an impact than 3 goals in a nothing match, over the course of a qualifying campaign.

Do I agree that he's playing below par for Ireland? Yes.
Do I think it's all his fault, or an atitude problem? No.
Do I think Ireland has the luxury of being able to drop him? No.

I don't think that he's been playing particularly well, and maybe the captaincy is impacting on him more than he lets on, however gaining the captaincy at Spurs seemed to imporve his game there so it's hard to know. I feel, and the fact that he's getting (and missing) chances backs this up, that he's Ireland's best chance of a goal in most of our games. Ideally, I'd like to see him be more clinical as this is the major let down in his game at the moment.

[geysir]

Actually the indo said that given was telling kelly to push on for the corner in the last min and staunton told kelly to stay back. Which, if true, is a disgrace. Happy with a point that knocks us out of the euros for definite but keeps our 'magnificent' home record intact
Point taken and that's what was written, my misunderstanding.

If it´s true then maybe there is a point but not quite in the disgrace level.

Quite possibly it is not true, we had amazing accounts here and in the media of Kerr ordering an advancing Roy Keane backwards in the away game against Israel when the truth was that Kerr was warning Kilbane that he was about to be closed down and to get rid of the effin ball.
When there is an agenda, media use all sorts of sh'ite to back up a point.

The same feckers would have been heavily criticizing McCarthy for taking off Harte in that game against Switzerland.

The simple facts are enough to judge Stan as a manager. He did better in this game than earlier games. There are still 2 games for him to prove himself.

[mackannovic]

Do I agree that he's playing below par for Ireland? Yes.
Do I think it's all his fault, or an atitude problem? No.
Do I think Ireland has the luxury of being able to drop him? No.

I don't think that he's been playing particularly well, and maybe the captaincy is impacting on him more than he lets on, however gaining the captaincy at Spurs seemed to imporve his game there so it's hard to know. I feel, and the fact that he's getting (and missing) chances backs this up, that he's Ireland's best chance of a goal in most of our games. Ideally, I'd like to see him be more clinical as this is the major let down in his game at the moment.

I think the reason he plays so well for Spurs is because he has the pressure of the bench behind him with Defoe and Bent there ready to come in. We need a manager bold enough to say "Look you aren't playing well, you haven't performed to the levels we want, we're gonna have to try something different" and stick the likes of Long, Stokes, Keogh on ahead of him, then see his reaction. I honestly believe we'd see a different player. Will it happen though? I can't see it, so perhaps he should take his take his 3 goals v San Marino in this campaign and realise to himself that it's not good enough.

[eirebhoy]

I actually think the pressure needs to be off Keane. He's probably his own worst enemy. Put him in a position where we're not relying on his goals. Out wide in a 4-3-3 or something. I've seen him dominate games for Spurs out wide or behind the strikers. With the players we have I don't know why we're not playing a 4-3-3.

[mypost]

Actually the indo said that given was telling kelly to push on for the corner in the last min and staunton told kelly to stay back. Which, if true, is a disgrace. Happy with a point that knocks us out of the euros for definite but keeps our 'magnificent' home record intact

And getting three points would have made much difference?? :confused:

This group was lost after losing to Cyprus last year. It's been a case of pising against the wind since.

[highlight100]

Strange McGeady played left midfield for Celtic last season against the eventual European Champions twice as Celtic kept two clean sheets and his fullback wasn't destroyed... Also played against the European Champions last week and won and his fullback wasn't destroyed... hmmmm....

I hope he proves me wrong,but he is an over rated player playing in a mickey mouse league. Fair enough he done well enough when he came on,but would he of done well if he was on for the whole match?
So far overall he has not played very well for Ireland and he needs to prove the doubters wrong (like me).

Keogh did not have a brilliant game but i think he did well considering

A- He plays in the championship
B- He is a novice at this level

[Stuttgart88]

I actually think the pressure needs to be off Keane. He's probably his own worst enemy. Put him in a position where we're not relying on his goals. Out wide in a 4-3-3 or something. I've seen him dominate games for Spurs out wide or behind the strikers. With the players we have I don't know why we're not playing a 4-3-3.

Especially as our best (only?) winger is crocked!

Just like in Stuttgart, I thought the distance between Keane, Doyle and our midfield was vast at times and it's hard for them to function in those circumstances. If we're to criticise Keane why not also criticise Doyle? He was chasing shadows and running into blind alleys all night but mainly because of the above, I'd contend. At least Riobbie had some chances.

Robbie's miss when through with Lehman was a shocker. He's always a poor finisher when he's got time IMHO, he's far better when he's instinctive.

I have seen no replays but was his miss in the first half bad? From my seat I though Lehmann was always clear favourite to win out. It'd have been a great goal.

[Wolfie]

Robbie's miss when through with Lehman was a shocker. He's always a poor finisher when he's got time IMHO, he's far better when he's instinctive.

That gilt edged chance was THE moment to nick the win. Once Keane has too much time to think he tends to miss. Keane's goal against Israel at home is a good example - very little time to think and relied very much on split second instinct.

We're still sorely lacking a predatory and consistent striker particularly in a competitive game.

Why does Keane insist on running to the corner flag when we've a corner?

Its shame Hunt was out - he could have had a big impact on Saturday.

[eirebhoy]

Why does Keane insist on running to the corner flag when we've a corner?

That was clearly tactical. With Dunne told to stay back for corners there's really no point in sending the ball in.

[Wolfie]

That was clearly tactical. With Dunne told to stay back for corners there's really no point in sending the ball in.

I'd prefer to see the strikers in the box for corners regardless of whether the ball is sent in directly or not.

[lionelhutz]

Point taken and that's what was written, my misunderstanding.

If it´s true then maybe there is a point but not quite in the disgrace level.

Quite possibly it is not true, we had amazing accounts here and in the media of Kerr ordering an advancing Roy Keane backwards in the away game against Israel when the truth was that Kerr was warning Kilbane that he was about to be closed down and to get rid of the effin ball.
When there is an agenda, media use all sorts of sh'ite to back up a point.

The same feckers would have been heavily criticizing McCarthy for taking off Harte in that game against Switzerland.

The simple facts are enough to judge Stan as a manager. He did better in this game than earlier games. There are still 2 games for him to prove himself.

I agree that the media do put a spin on things to argue their point.

But I also believe Staunton was happy to take a point when there was still a chance - not a great chance, but still a chance - of qualifying if we won.

And i don't think it was that much of an outside chance, with germany well capable of beating the Czechs, Slovakia would be up for it against their neighbours and Cyprus have an excellent home record

[tetsujin1979]

I'd prefer to see the strikers in the box for corners regardless of whether the ball is sent in directly or not.
Keane was dwarfed by the German centre halves, there's no way he'd have beaten them to a cross from a corner

[Wolfie]

Keane was dwarfed by the German centre halves, there's no way he'd have beaten them to a cross from a corner

I agree - therefore, don't cross the ball directly. Work the ball in on the ground and have your striker waiting where he should be - in the box.

[paul_oshea]

AS i said on sunday that match meant nothing, it was a C team for germany in a game they didnt care for, just look how the czechs even beat them well in germany. Ye read into and it like most games expecting a change in thinking and fortune, but now we are right back in the same situation. This is a disaster and we have the players certainly to be doing more.

[strangeirish]

Joachim Löw, out now!:D

[billybunter]

Joachim Löw, out now!:D

germany have Joachim Löw, we get 'all time Löw"

[CollegeTillIDie]

Oh we can still lose to Wales and come 5th :D