Whinging Ireland fans

[Morbo]

go back to our 1st game, we were VERY unlucky against the germans in stuttgart!!.
Not really, true their goal was lucky but if Ireland did nick a point I think it would be fair to say on the balance of play that we would have been very lucky



how anyone can say its stauntons fault Cyprus hammered us is stupid, its the 11 players on the pitch, it would have been virtually the same team from any other manager and that motivation crap doesnt wash on me, these are full-grown professionals they know what they have to do themselves on the pitch!.

So it isn't Stauntons fault that we had Kilbane and Ireland in central midfield? Sure we had a mini injury crisis but Carsley had made himself available but Staunton stupidly refused claiming it would be unfair on the young players. Granted a lot of players had a nightmare that night but that lightweight midfield compounded our problems, I think Staunton was at least 50% responsible for that result




i never said i was happy with 3rd i'm saying ppl reaction to this has been so OTT its unbelievable, its like we never failed to qualify before!!.
Well it was been a very long time since we were this far off the pace, every other campaign we were still in it till the final match, if we went out in 3rd but fought till the last game then I could accept that but 6 points off 2nd and effectively eliminated with 3 games to go is unacceptable IMO for the team we have

[eekers]

so its okay if our players are playing in a poor league (one that hardly gives adequate preparation for international games) as long as they play a few european games.
that must be why mc geady is playing then.
how about calling up some drogheda players - i mean they have more eurpean experience than kevin doyle, richard dunne.
look at how anthony stokes tore up the scottish league whilst on loan there - the league is **** poor. the fact stokes choose joining a championship team over celtic in the january transfer window says it all.

this whole thing comes down to how much you rate the scottish league and celtic and rangers.

[SkStu]

i dont give a toss about Celtic, Rangers or the scottish league. Im not the one who introduced Scotland into the argument but one thing i am certain of is that those players play at least 8 games a season against some of the best players in the world. That improves alot of things - including confidence, tactical awareness, concentration. That they have 14 players doing that each year is a huge advantage over us and our paltry 3 representatives.

The three things i have noticed over the course of the campaign as the problem with our team? Confidence, naivety and concentration. The manager can help but these things wouldnt be as important if our players were testing themselves against the best in the world on a weekly basis.

anyway, im outta this argument. Im not gonna keep repeating myself ad nauseum to people who dont want to listen to common sense and think that it will all be magically sorted out when we sack Staunton.

enjoy bitching on this forum for a long time to come lads.

[dr_peepee]

is anyone else getting sick of this whinging?.

thread after thread of ''Stan out'' ''Delaney out'', calls for abandoning games and burning tickets,whistle protests and black t-shirts. if this is the actions of the ''best fans in the world'' its a sad state of affairs.


Is it lonely.... Up there on your pedestal!!



Stan has made errors and the players have made errors and apart from San Marino away I honestly don't think we've got anything even marginally more than we deserved in a game. The last time I remember a bit of proper luck was the Holland game in 2001. However, players make errors in a fraction of a second, Stan's errors are measured and deliberated upon, and consistent.

That's it in a nutshell. It's not about unrealistic expectations or ideas above our station. You're stance GE is similar to Delaney, but fact of the matter is there's no hypocracy here. We all questioned whether Stan was the right man to get the best out of limited players when Delaney appointed him. We've been proved right. What you're proposing is a level of apathy that will result in no accountability for those who make decisions on our behalf.

In Delaney's eyes we're all disgruntled Dundalk fans...

[Stuttgart88]

i think that Germany and the Czechs were always going to get out of this group.

I just think that the players are not there for us anymore .....

I think we'll all admit that we were at best 3rd favourites in this group but being so far adrift with 3 games to go, without a credible performance to our name is well below the standard we should be setting even with this group of players.

I have to say the RTE panel put across a very compelling dissection of Stan's failings but if Delaney is to be pressurised further rags like the Sunday Indo do us no favours. It's the only Irish paper I can get here early on a Sunday and the first thing I saw was Ricaherd Sadlier attacking Stan's HT team talk in Stuttgart as we were a goal down. We weren't a goal down at HT, it was 0-0. There were other lightweight and only superficially informed articles ("Derby County manager managing a Derby County team" - what the fcuk does that mean?). Dross like that only gives the impression there's alot of knee jerking going on. I admit mine has a bit of a twitch alright, but there's some carefully considered movement too.

[geysir]

I didn´t see Sadliers article in the on line Indo, how would he know about Stan´s 1/2 time team talk?
The one guy in this affair who comes out with total cringe value is Delaney.
Support for the manager is one thing but to use the supporters staying behind as some form of vindication. If the support were calling for the manager's head, I'm sure that twisted and selective art of 'listening to the grassroots' would be ignored.

The next 3 games have no qualification pressure but there will be a lot of focus on the teams performance, Stan's head is still on the block.
Now we have one of the best outfits (undisputed) coming next, the pressure on Stan and Delaney will not abate so easy.

[bennocelt]

I have to say the RTE panel put across a very compelling dissection of Stan's failings but if Delaney is to be pressurised further rags like the Sunday Indo do us no favours. It's the only Irish paper I can get here early on a Sunday and the first thing I saw was Ricaherd Sadlier attacking Stan's HT team talk in Stuttgart as we were a goal down. We weren't a goal down at HT, it was 0-0. There were other lightweight and only superficially informed articles ("Derby County manager managing a Derby County team" - what the fcuk does that mean?). Dross like that only gives the impression there's alot of knee jerking going on. I admit mine has a bit of a twitch alright, but there's some carefully considered movement too.

i saw those two articles, and was peeded off with sadliers too, cause he was a big supporter of Stan only a few weeks ago.........t wat
And that Derby co article was lame

But Fannings and that Sligo fellas article was ace and well worth reading
Compiling a list of Kilbanes ireland highlights would be a short DVd, etc

[mypost]

is anyone else getting sick of this whinging?.

also they have(relatively)strong domestic games so have bigger crops of players to choose from, while we have a domestic game which is starved of media attention and attendences adveraging at the 2,000 mark!. that leaves us with only a pool of players to be choose from across the pond in england!

Well, if you're sick of the whinging, you'll have to be sick of a lot more of it in the next two years, cos, it ain't going to stop.

We don't have a pool of players to choose from in England. We have an entire league at home here, to choose players from, we don't have to limit ourselves to English-based players. As I stated before, this disgraceful policy, has led to us qualifying for one of the last 7 tournaments. We are not casting our net wide enough, or using our resources fully. Instead, we're happy to play players from bad English teams, in some cases, not even getting regular football. How in the name of sanity, are they expected to perform miracles against Germany and Czech Republic??

The selection policy made 20 years ago, that disqualified LOI players from selection, was based on the Denmark model, where the manager and players would be based abroad, and playing for the top clubs which would improve their game. But the Denmark model came to it's natural end. After qualifying for the '84, '86, and '88 tournaments, they failed to qualify for the next 3 tournaments, only playing in '92 by default. The policy didn't work anymore. Germany and Czech's players play for the best teams in Europe, ours play for rubbish English sides. Rubbish players, rubbish teams, and a rubbish boss = plummeting results on the pitch, for which it can take an age to recover. Our policy seems to be "If Plan A fails, stick rigidly to plan A".

Look for our best players, here and abroad, get the right boss for the job with no conditions on his nationality, change tactics if necessary. If you're facing a tough away match, it's not a 4-4-2 formation you play. If the players can't play to the formation required, chuck 'em out and find players who can.

I'm sick of hearing about the "limited" players we have. We have the players, so go out and play them. :mad: Pick the best players available for the game, not the tried, and failed formula every time.

Another thing, we are currently 3rd in the group. However, we could end up as low as 6th come the end of it. Even San Marino kept the score in Cyprus down to 3. :rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

Gordon Sunderland
Hutton Rangers
McManus Celtic
Weir Rangers
Alexander Derby County
McCulloch Rangers
Ferguson Rangers
Fletcher Man United Reserves
Brown Celtic
Hartley Celtic
McFadden Everton

Pearson Derby County
O'Connor Birmingham
McGregor Rangers
McEveley Derby County
Caldwell Celtic
Boyd Rangers
Maloney Aston Villa



Out of curiosity, does anyone know how many of these players played for Scotland in their "future squad" or whatever it was called in that 5 team pan-european mini league their were involved in over the last 2 years?

[Stuttgart88]

Answering my own question:

Gordon Sunderland*
Hutton Rangers
McManus Celtic
Weir Rangers
Alexander Derby County*
McCulloch Rangers
Ferguson Rangers
Fletcher Man United Reserves*
Brown Celtic
Hartley Celtic*
McFadden Everton*

Pearson Derby County
O'Connor Birmingham*
McGregor Rangers
McEveley Derby County
Caldwell Celtic*
Boyd Rangers*
Maloney Aston Villa*


FUTURE CUP 2005

Tuesday, 7 December, 2004
Germany 3, Scotland 0
Scotland: Soutar (Dundee) (sub McGregor (Rangers) 45), Diamond (Aberdeen) (sub Corrigan (Motherwell) 53), Murray (Hibernian), McNaughton (Aberdeen), Virgo (Brighton), Malcolm (Rangers, capt), Wilson (Dunfermline Athletic), Hartley (Heart of Midlothian) (sub Nicholson (Dunfermline Athletic) 60), O’Connor (Hibernian), Smith (Den Haag), Lynch (Preston North End) (sub McDonald (Kilmarnock) 60).
Referee: Levan Paniashvili (Georgia).

Tuesday, 19 April, 2005
Austria 2, Scotland 1
Scotland: Gordon (Heart of Midlothian) (sub Brown (Inverness Caledonian Thistle) 64), McCunnie (Ross County) (sub Berra (Heart of Midlothian) 76), Watt (Chelsea), Webster (Heart of Midlothian), Murray (Hibernian), Smith (Den Haag), Severin (Aberdeen), McDonald (Kilmarnock), Sweeney (Millwall) (sub Fotheringham (Dundee) 64), Parkin (Swindon Town) (sub Maloney (Celtic) 23), Beattie (Celtic).

Tuesday, 6 December, 2005
Scotland 2, Poland 0
Scotland: Marshall (Celtic) (sub Combe (Kilmarnock) 46), Neilson (Heart of Midlothian), Greer (Kilmarnock), Virgo (Celtic) (sub Berra (Heart of Midlothian) 70), Hay (Kilmarnock) (sub Wallace (Celtic) 63), Teale (Wigan Athletic), Montgomery (Sheffield United), McDonald (Kilmarnock) (sub McAllister (Heart of Midlothian) 46), Robson (Dundee United) (sub Kerr (Dundee United) 63), Duffy (Falkirk) (sub Miller (Dundee United) 46), Boyd (Kilmarnock).


Wednesday, 15 March, 2006
Scotland 2, Turkey 3
Scotland: Brown (Inverness CT) (sub Turner (Everton) 46), Corrigan (Motherwell, capt), Hammell (Motherwell), Virgo (Celtic) (sub McNamee (Livingston) 66), Berra (Hearts), Robson (Dundee Utd) (sub Rankin (Ross County) 75), Naismith (Kilmarnock) (sub Black (Inverness CT) 46), Kerr (Motherwell), Miller (Dundee Utd), Dargo (Inverness CT) (sub Duffy (Hull City) 46), McIndoe (Doncaster).

20 May 2003
Scotland 2, Northern Ireland 1
Scotland: Gallacher (Dundee Utd) (sub Arthur (Partick Thistle) 46), Alexander (Preston NE), Naysmith (Everton), Dailly (West Ham Utd, capt), S. Caldwell (Newcastle Utd) (sub Fletcher (Manchester Utd) 59), G. Caldwell (Newcastle Utd), Devlin (Birmingham City), Kerr (Newcastle Utd), Kyle (Sunderland) (sub Lynch (Preston NE) 86), Hutchison (West Ham Utd) (sub Gray (Bradford City) 70), McFadden (Motherwell) (sub Ross (Rangers) 46).

[reder]

Scotland is a prime example of what we could be with the right management team in place. At this moment in time we have 1 world class player and one other player with the potential to fall into the category of 'world class' when fully fit. The rest of the squad consists of run of the mill pro's which could be organised into a very solid and competent international side, well capable of qualifying for major tournaments.

For me and most other football fans I know, Steve Finnan is without doubt a world class right full. He has proven this both on the PL and CL front. When fit and once he has the chance to prove himself on the european stage I think Shay also has the ability to reach the same level. The talk he is about to have with FAT Sam could be his gateway out of Newcastle and there is little doubt that a european club will come in to buy him.

For me our last 2 managers have been below par. I have no time or confidence in Stan as a manager (his ability as a player was unquestionable) but Kerr was no dinamo either. His team selection was awful at times. On many occasions he played the likes of Steven Carr in place of Finnan and had Duff and Keane playing as a front 2.

I feel we as fans as well within our right to view our displeasure in relation to the current setup. I will be going to the Germany, Cyprus and Wales games but in the event that we are being beaten and putting in performances of the calibre of Slovakia or Cyprus (pre-Hunt), I think it would be idiotic not to voice our disapproval.

Personally, I feel that we may be wasting our time. The powers that be (well power in truth) are obviously quite happy to see the senior international team go down the plughole. I have little doubt that Stan will be in charge come 2010 and we will be relay the same posts over and over again.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Scotland has a more democratic football association too.

[soccerc]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how many of these players played for Scotland in their "future squad" or whatever it was called in that 5 team pan-european mini league their were involved in over the last 2 years?

I suspect we'll be hearing of a similar pan European under 23 leauge involving Ireland in the coming weeks for players uncapped at possibly under 21 and senior level.

Ireland, N.Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. ;)

[Mayo_Bhoy]

I think Scotland has a more democratic football association too.

What exactly do you mean by that?:confused:

[Stuttgart88]

i.e., it's not the personal fiefdom of an autocratic despot.

[Mayo_Bhoy]

i.e., it's not the personal fiefdom of an autocratic despot.

Hmmm. I didnt think i would get an inteligent response. If you actually knew what the SFA was really like you owuldnt come on with those glib remarks.:rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

educate me so rather than inserting those inane coloured face things after calling my response unintelligent. I'm always open to being corrected. I started by saying "I think" not stating absolute fact.

[geysir]

What you are saying Stutts, is that you are not an autocratic despot.

[Stuttgart88]

I try to be at home but not very successfully.

[soccerc]

I try to be at home but not very successfully.

With a female majority household I'm not surprised as you've no choice Stutts.

We all know who wears the trousers:D

[Mayo_Bhoy]

educate me so rather than inserting those inane coloured face things after calling my response unintelligent. I'm always open to being corrected. I started by saying "I think" not stating absolute fact.

It's called a smilie and indictates me rolling my eyes at your statement. Have you got that???

[John83]

Hmmm. I didnt think i would get an inteligent response. If you actually knew what the SFA was really like you owuldnt come on with those glib remarks.:rolleyes:
I hate to get involved, but this comment is little more than trolling. What do you know about the SFA that he doesn't which is relevant here? I'd not be surprised to find that it's SFA.

Now, in 20 words or less, complete the sentence, "Stuttgart88's glib remark was wrong because..."
Or go back to your troll cave. Either way is good.

[Stuttgart88]

With a female majority household I'm not surprised as you've no choice Stutts.

We all know who wears the trousersIt's actually 2 a side at the moment, though the little fella does like to wear his big sister's fairy dress. If he continues in the same manner his first Ireland shirt will have "O'Shea" on the back.

Mayo Bhoy, I'm still waiting to hear about the SFA :confused::):cool:

[Mayo_Bhoy]

Mayo Bhoy, I'm still waiting to hear about the SFA :confused::):cool:

Do you follow scottish football??

The scandal over Jorge Cadette's delayed registartion in 1996 when Jim Farry was Chief Executive springs to mind.

[tetsujin1979]

Do you follow scottish football??

The scandal over Jorge Cadette's delayed registartion in 1996 when Jim Farry was Chief Executive springs to mind.
That's more than 10 years ago?? Anything else more recent you'd care to comment on?

[Stuttgart88]

Do you follow scottish football??

The scandal over Jorge Cadette's delayed registartion in 1996 when Jim Farry was Chief Executive springs to mind.

Can you stop answering questions with questions? I'm familiar with the Jorge Cadete transfer registration delay alright. All I'm asking is if in 2007 the SFA is more or less democratic than the FAI. I was under the impression that it was more democratic but if I'm wrong I'm fully open to being corrected.

[Mayo_Bhoy]

Can you stop answering questions with questions? I'm familiar with the Jorge Cadete transfer registration delay alright. All I'm asking is if in 2007 the SFA is more or less democratic than the FAI. I was under the impression that it was more democratic but if I'm wrong I'm fully open to being corrected.

What exactly do you mean by asking is it democratic???

As far as im concerned the SFA has in the past been involved in institutionalised bias towards Celtic. Maybe this is changing but their recent investigations into sectarian chanting by Rangers fans in the opening game of the SPL and the slap on the wrist that that club received suggest it has a long way to go. Anyway this is an Irish forum so im not going to get draggged into another debate about Scottish football, but i fail to see how you can say the SFA is more democratic than the FAI. Are you talking about their espective affiliates, structures or what??

[Torn-Ado]

Comparing the FAI and the SFA is like comparing Aids and Cancer.

Both are extremely horrible and disliked.

[Stuttgart88]

What I'm referring to is whether one man makes all the key decisions in the SFA regarding the international set up. For example, most criticism of Delaney at the moment centres around his virtually single handed decision to appoint Staunton and to persist with him. That's certainly the perception. However, my impression is that at the SFA a more collegiate structure exists. When Smith resigned I didn't hear that McLeish was the choice of one man and one man only.

For what it's worth, I do take an interest in Scottish football and am fully aware of perceived institutional bias.

[Mayo_Bhoy]

What I'm referring to is whether one man makes all the key decisions in the SFA regarding the international set up. For example, most criticism of Delaney at the moment centres around his virtually single handed decision to appoint Staunton and to persist with him. That's certainly the perception. However, my impression is that at the SFA a more collegiate structure exists. When Smith resigned I didn't hear that McLeish was the choice of one man and one man only.

For what it's worth, I do take an interest in Scottish football and am fully aware of perceived institutional bias.

Fair enough. TBH im not familiar with the mechanisms within the SFA regarding the appointment of the team manager.

[Stuttgart88]

I suspect we'll be hearing of a similar pan European under 23 leauge involving Ireland in the coming weeks for players uncapped at possibly under 21 and senior level.

Ireland, N.Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales, Holland, Belgium, Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
I'm surprised this didn't get more attention. I'd be very interested to hear what happens.