Sad Sobering Fact I Fear

[drummerboy]

The only argument in Staunton favour is that he is learning the job but the management of the National Team is not the place to be learning your trade. Its a disgrace this novice is in charge of our football fortunes until 2010.

[el punter]

I disagree with calls for guys like O'Leary and Aldridge to get the job. International football is an entirely different discipline to club management and the time has come to get someone who is a proven international manager. Real tactical nous is needed when there's no chequebooks around; someone with the resume of Guus Hiddink or as suggested elsewhere Roy Hodgson would be my choice.

[geysir]

The desperate cries for O´Leary, are like the rantings of the religious right when another end of the world scenario looms.

[Stuttgart88]

Or simply the realisation that the current set up is irreparably broken and there are very few credible candidates to take over?

You can stay calm and measured all you like but , the odd bit of hyperbole apart (I now accept after reading your quotes), Dunphy was correct.

Are you happy that things can get better if nothing much is changed?

[westside hoop]

I disagree with calls for guys like O'Leary and Aldridge to get the job. International football is an entirely different discipline to club management and the time has come to get someone who is a proven international manager. Real tactical nous is needed when there's no chequebooks around; someone with the resume of Guus Hiddink or as suggested elsewhere Roy Hodgson would be my choice.

Hiddink is the man who should have got the job when he was available. The FAI bottled it because he would have wanted to change the whole structure of football in this country....which is totally needed. Hiddink would have wanted a stronger local league and would have wanted a full time academy set up. Obviously this would have put us in a much better psoition but the FAI were too afraid to do it and would still be. They have and always will have the wrong attitude to winning and qualifying for big Championships. I think a foreign coach, who is a good motivator as well as having a proper football brain, is the way forward with Kerr taking charge of the underage set-up again. Wouldn't fancy O'Leary too much to be honest.

[reder]

Hiddink is the man who should have got the job when he was available. The FAI bottled it because he would have wanted to change the whole structure of football in this country....which is totally needed. Hiddink would have wanted a stronger local league and would have wanted a full time academy set up. Obviously this would have put us in a much better psoition but the FAI were too afraid to do it and would still be. They have and always will have the wrong attitude to winning and qualifying for big Championships. I think a foreign coach, who is a good motivator as well as having a proper football brain, is the way forward with Kerr taking charge of the underage set-up again. Wouldn't fancy O'Leary too much to be honest.

You are correct on Hiddink. A candidate of his calibre is whats needed. However I suspect we will end up :

- being stuck with Stan til 2010.
- getting either O' Leary, Aldo ......

However, Brian Kerr has had his chance in the international setup and his results/performances were no better than Stans. I wouldnt have it within 100 miles of the setup ... and neither would a competent international manager like Hiddink.

[galwayhoop]

bottom line is Stan chose to stay 'loyal' to his players from Sat night. Making only 1 enforced change. When it was plain for all to see that the likes of Kelly (@ LB) and McGeady were nowhere near the races.

Loyalty is all well and good in the long run - possibly stay loyal by selecting a player in the squad if you want - but in make or break one-off must win situation it is totally naïve to start a player who is not up to the job. I think that his inexperience was there for all to see on that decision alone.

[OwlsFan]

David O'Leary is a self serving snake, but I'd hire him in an instant at this stage.

In an odd way, watching RTE was a privilege tonight. Sorry Owls Fan but dunphy was faultless. Bill " I learnt TV presenting on the job". Eamon: " Would you let hin [ a rookie] drive the train to Cork?". Don't shed any tears for a well piad man losing his job. Sorry Stan, you meant well but it just ain't gonna happen. Get a job in club football, learn your trade and if in 5-10 years time you're a proven success apply again. Dunphy was right, WE deserve better. I maintain as a mantra that you only need 5 or 6 really good players and the rest need only be good enough. We have at least that situation now.

Once O'shea's injury forced his hand into playing what almost all of us here wanted, the team received a shot in the arm that if we'd had from the start it may well have been different.

Stan doesn't deserve any of the more vitriolic attacks on him that have been made here but at the same time I hope he's big enough to admit he just isn't good enough. I know he cares but then again we all do. At least the players showed THEY care tonight I thought.

Good news soccerc if you're right.

can anyone post tonight's panel on youtube? Sheer quality broadcasting.

Dunphy wasn't faultless. He is a two faced snake in the grass who will express any opinion which could contradict an opinion uttered only a few days previously just for the sake of being controversial. Before the Slovak game he said "McShane was an accident waiting to happen", that Reid was an average Championship player and that our midfield is just not good enough for this standard of football. Last night he says we should be playing at the Euro 2008 finals because of the players we have and he lists among them, John O'Shea :eek: It is a total contradiction of what he said the previous game and I have it on tape to prove it. Of course I agreed with him about Hunt and Kelly (should be at right full) but then so did 90% of every other football fan. Nothing quality about that. He said players shouldn't go directly in to international football management until his hero Giles, pointed out that he did. As for the train analogy, if you been sitting in the front seat of a train hundreds of times watching a driver do his job, I think you could drive a train but all Bill can do is laugh. He is hopeless at arguing with the utter S**te he comes out with.

The FAI hire Stan, not the country so we might be rolling in dosh but that is irrelevant to Stan's remuneration or what we can afford to pay a manager. He scoffed at the predecessors (Kerr and McCarthy) - the absence of Charlton from that list was interesting. If the FAI could afford someone better, why wouldn't they hire them? The truth is no top class manager is interested in the job for 400K a year and the FAI can't afford to pay Stan off. No mention of this in the quality broadcasting. As ever no balance or contrary opinion. I'd love to get on that panel and show him up for the charlatan he is.

[galwayhoop]

on Stans over all inexperience for the job I disagree with Dunphy that just because he hadn't managed a team prior that should exclude someone from managing the national team.
John Giles (Ireland) and Royston Keane (Sunderland) are both neck deep in the Moral Courage which Dunphy talks of and both went straight to management from playing.
HOWEVER, some can do and some cannot. I think Stan is unfortunately not in the can bracket. It isn't just because he is a novice but moreso a lack of knowhow for the task at hand.

And as for the FAI giving him a 4 year contract while being totally inexperienced at any level.... well thats CRIMINAL.

Take this as an example, you interview well for a new job but have no experience to speak of; however the company decide to hire you anyhow. Now would it be normal for you to undergo a period of Probation or would the company give you a 4 year contract straight off - bearing in mind your inexperience???
As a person with no experience you would take the job on no contract (or very short term) as you beleive in your own ability to do the task at hand and as you would be so happy to get it in the first place! after all you would probably feel that you would have no right to play hardball (like a more experienced person for the position would) and try and hold out for a permanent/long term deal!!!

Bottom line is the FAI are at fault, not necessilary for appointing a novice, but for giving him a deal whereby financially they are unable to get rid of him if he isn't up to the job!

[OwlsFan]

. Bottom line is the FAI are at fault, not necessilary for appointing a novice, but for giving him a deal whereby financially they are unable to get rid of him if he isn't up to the job!

Agree with that. The 4 year contract was madness and I said it at the time. Most people when they go for a new job are given a probationary period. Not 4 years.

[Seano]

Its an unbeliveable turanaround by the FAI that they should stand by the manager now, considering how easily they bowed down to the 'McCarthy out Keane back in' brigade and sacked a manager who had built a team capable of both qualifying for and competing in the later stages of a world cup

[geysir]

Or simply the realisation that the current set up is irreparably broken and there are very few credible candidates to take over?

You can stay calm and measured all you like but , the odd bit of hyperbole apart (I now accept after reading your quotes), Dunphy was correct.

Are you happy that things can get better if nothing much is changed?
Dunphy´s pretends to be a mob politician, (whatever its called when the mob surround the jail and want to hang the prisoner on the nearest tree).
I don´t care with what is actually right in his content, it´s the mob psychology rampage that is repugnant. In fact Dunphy wouldn´t be fit to spit on Stan´s boots nor any of the past managers he has spewed upon.
I´d agree with what Giles said, he is spot on. I have respect for Stan and what he tried to do, albeit not very well, but Stan put his faith and belief in certain players to deliver a type of performance and for the team to play a certain type of game.
Last night after being totally played off the park for 35 minutes we had 10 mins of a spark followed by a 2nd half of being comfortably contained, reduced to a few gammy goal chances. With Kerr, only the Keane return kept some optimism afloat after the Swiss debacle. Stan doesn´t have much of a defence by now.
Who wouldn´t want a good manager now?
It´s interesting listening to what other managers or potentential managers have to say about our players, team selection, tactics, strengths. You´d be surprised at the amount of wackiness going around.
re DOL, It is not a solution to create another problem.

[Stuttgart88]

It´s interesting listening to what other managers or potentential managers have to say about our players, team selection, tactics, strengths. You´d be surprised at the amount of wackiness going around. I'm not sure I've heard anything from other managers.


I've no time for a lot of what Dunphy has said or they way he has said it in the past, but I thought the RTE panel's dissection of the failings were pretty incisive and fairly presented.

Team construction, balance, looking at players' match form rather their training form, learning on the job etc.

There's no stand out alternative and I think DOL may just be the best of an uninspiring lot. I've a very open mind on it.

What I don't have an open mind on is that we made a botch of this campaign, it's been a long time since we've been totally out with 3 games to go - and even before that we were clutching at straws. The only encouraging signs were in friendlies.

[galwayhoop]

Dunphy´s pretends to be a mob politician, (whatever its called when the mob surround the jail and want to hang the prisoner on the nearest tree).

the lads outside the jail are known as a 'Lynch Mob', i have never heard of a mob politician though. i know what you are getting at though, Dunphy loves to lead the Witch Hunt/Lynch Mob!!

[galwayhoop]

Team construction, balance, looking at players' match form rather their training form, learning on the job etc.


These are basics!!!!!

I don't need any other manager to tell me these ditties! anyone who has played football at ANY level know about the players who are brilliant in training but anonomous when it comes to games and also the reverse of those who don't train particulary well but are immense in games.

as for team construction and balance - well for a start the best players in their best positions ... and if possible left sided players on the left and right sided on the right unless there are no other options :cool:

As for learning on the job...... in what other field are you afforded 4 years to learn the basics when you are supposidely in the top position for your trade in the country!!!!!!!

[Stuttgart88]

I was just pointing out all of the simple but accurate points they made.

[geysir]

You should have let it ride, we wouldn´t have known.

[galwayhoop]

I was just pointing out all of the simple but accurate points they made.

fair enough!

but in fairness I think that everyone with even the basics could point out these.... oh ... except our Gafhur

[backstothewall]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Dunphy is right

[Reality Bites]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Dunphy is right

Yes Dunphy was right, and I am not a Fan of his either, but I fear after the mood settles and the average punters thoughts move elsewhere and we start another spring with a only a batch of friendlies against teams warming up for European Championship - Stan and Delaney will still be holding their Posts and we the fans get feed the usually crap about a building process in place , ya right!the spine of the team are well in their prime, Dunne, Given, Finnan, Duff, Keane, Kilbane etc - are they still being blooded?
I as a Fan have travelled extensively since I started earning a decent salary, my first trip was Russia 2002, a resounding defeat, but it was new ground I loved the experience building up to the match the craic etc, the nervous tension before the big game and most importantly I really felt like a real Fan, I kicked every ball from the stand in the locomotiv (spelling?) stadium in Moscow, I felt desperately depressed afterwards, but the experience was enough to drag me back again on countless trips to Switzerland, Cyprus, Scotland, France, Israel, Faroe Islands, all these trips although enjoyable produced preformance that were less than encouraging, at all times I felt bad management was to blame in some shape or form, and I finally decided after our 1-0 loss to Germany I was being short changed and Shafted by Irish Football, I spent a fortune on trips following the Boys in Green, attending Friendlies, keeping an eye on our talent in the premiership, But my conclusion marries exactlly with Dunphys Sentiments that we are gettin Rinky Dink Coaches too manage promising players..

So to conclude if I stop going to Friendlies and boarding planes and following my team around Europe because I believe the hierarchy in the FAI are hoodwinking me by putting in trainee coaches of little experience or pedigree cause they are Cheap? Does that make me a Fairweather Fan or unpatriotic?

[el punter]

.... if I stop going to Friendlies and boarding planes and following my team around Europe because I believe the hierarchy in the FAI are hoodwinking me by putting in trainee coaches of little experience or pedigree cause they are Cheap? Does that make me a Fairweather Fan or unpatriotic?

I believe your question to be somewhat rhetorical, but no harm in offering a response in the current climate.

The loyalty of fans is taking for granted so much by those who haven't paid for a match ticket in decades. There is only so much sh1t any supporter will be fed by the decision makers of the game. Revolution is needed, yes Dunphy is hysterical, but the majority of the posters on this board have been calling for Stan out before he was ever in - rightly so. We are in a poor place at the moment, a 3rd rate footballing nation in European terms.

This is not going to improve without experts calling the shots. We have a blundering rookie and an elderly, ill man as his mentor. They're nice guys, they're trying hard, but it's not good enough.

We must turn up at Croker and show our discontent. Show it loudly and clearly. The results on the field v Germany and Cyprus matter far less than the results which are needed off the field.

Delaney is a master politician, he will ride out this storm quietly in the hope that it passes - and in the meantime another qualifying campaign will be spunked away.

Are we going to look back in years to come and say these were dark days for Irish football and just blame Delaney - or do we blame ourselves for letting it happen.

The man is not a military dictator, he does not own Irish football, he will fold and give the people what they want, but we must make that abundantly clear to the FAI, the media and the Irish public.

[shaneker]

[quote=el punter;770920]We must turn up at Croker and show our discontent. Show it loudly and clearly. The results on the field v Germany and Cyprus matter far less than the results which are needed off the field.
quote]

What is the best way to do that? I'd hate to think of us being like those England fans when they played Andorra.

[el punter]

What is the best way to do that? I'd hate to think of us being like those England fans when they played Andorra.

I think the black t-shirt protest mooted elsewhere on foot.ie is a good idea. This forum is probably the best place to co-ordinate the whole thing. Some press releases would highlight awareness for what's going on, and there's little the FAI stasi could do to stop it.

[shaneker]

I think the black t-shirt protest mooted elsewhere on foot.ie is a good idea. This forum is probably the best place to co-ordinate the whole thing. Some press releases would highlight awareness for what's going on, and there's little the FAI stasi could do to stop it.

I like the black t-shirt idea, support the team but not the organisation, makes it clear who we are mad at. Best I've heard so far.

[galwayhoop]

How about having writing on the T-Shirts:
Front:
I Support
IRELAND
Back:
NOT
the
FAI

[bennocelt]

Absolutely not!! I'd prefer an Irishman, someone who knows what the fans want and what it takes, not many out there but IMO we should not go down the route of appointing foreigners


yeah and Jack charlton was rubbish too!:rolleyes:

[tetsujin1979]

Absolutely not!! I'd prefer an Irishman, someone who knows what the fans want and what it takes, not many out there but IMO we should not go down the route of appointing foreigners
I think we all would, but the fact of the matter is, there are very few (if any) Irish managers qualified to take on an international side. You have to put personal preference aside in favor of what is best for the team, if that means a foreign manager, then so be it.

[Irish_Praha]

I think we all would, but the fact of the matter is, there are very few (if any) Irish managers qualified to take on an international side. You have to put personal preference aside in favor of what is best for the team, if that means a foreign manager, then so be it.

I agree, we have given 2 100% Irish managers a shot and see where it's gotten us. It's time to get the best manager available who we can afford and who will take the job, regardless of his nationality, Irish or not.

[Superhoops]

I agree, we have given 2 100% Irish managers a shot and see where it's gotten us. It's time to get the best manager available who we can afford and who will take the job, regardless of his nationality, Irish or not.

That has always been the key issue, even before Staunton was given the job.

Does anyone really believe that a top manager/coach would want to take on a team that is only rated as a third seed and certainly outside the top 20 in Europe?

[Kingdom]

Stan must go, but he won't and Delaney will not sack him as he'd be admitting to making a mistake.

Dunphy was spot on last night, broke Brady's heart but at least he was man enough to admit it amd Giles as ever was right on the money.

Agree with this, particularily the sentiments about Brady. TBH I've never liked him as an analyst or critic, but I'll applaud him for being honest when it hurt him obviously so much, and added to the fact that it was a mate of his he was having to dissect. Kudos Brady, kudos!

[Morbo]

I've always liked Brady, I don't get why so many dislike him, he is always brutally honest and it is such a breath of fresh air compared to their British counterparts, Eamonn is always just being controversial for controversies sake but I had to agree with him last night

[Irish_Praha]

I've always liked Brady, I don't get why so many dislike him, he is always brutally honest and it is such a breath of fresh air compared to their British counterparts, Eamonn is always just being controversial for controversies sake but I had to agree with him last night

He played and was one of the star player for some of the top teams in Europe but it's reported that he insisted in having a clause in his Juventus contract that he be released for all international games. Although he probably would have been released without the clause you still have to admire that.

Maybe some people's dislike for him if for his poor management of Celtic?
Also a few people have posted on here about seeing him crack open a bottle of champers straight after Ireland had lost an important qualifier and that he comes across as a bit arrogant. Up to then he was and sill is (arguably) the most successful Irish player of all time, so I suppose he should be allowed to be a bit arrogant.

[Qwerty]

As for learning on the job...... in what other field are you afforded 4 years to learn the basics when you are supposidely in the top position for your trade in the country!!!!!!!

Some top nations ahve installed rookies, it does help to have good players though. Countries like Ireland cannot afford to install rookies as the margin for error is much less given our limited player pool i.e. we don't have great players to mask managerial mistakes.

Germany > Klinsmann
Holland > Van Basten
Romania > Hagi

[stojkovic]

Hiddink was willing and available after Australia's WC06.

The FAI wouldnt wait four months for him because they short-sightedly wanted to play home friendlies and earn revenue for New Lansdowne.

This will now back-fire on them as they wont fill Tolka next year with friendly matches, and who the hell will want to play us anyway.

They could have installed a care-taker (Givens) for a couple of friendlies while we waited for a Hiddink - a real World Class manager.

Abramovich napped him and lent him to Russia.

[Superhoops]

How would David O'Leary,, Gus Hiddink or anyone else make a difference unless they were prepared to make the hard decisions:
- take the captaincy from Robbie Keane
- make Richard Dunne team captain
- drop Robbie Keane
- ensure that O'Shea and McGeady never ever play for Ireland again
- build around Andy Reid
- give Stephen Hunt at least 6 guaranteed starts
- give Stephen Gleeson at least 6 gurarenteed starts
- give Kevin Kilbane a Left Back start for the next 6 games
- send Kevin Doyle to specialist training to improve his first touch
- tell Stephen Ireland to come back when he has grown up

[soccerc]

This will now back-fire on them as they wont fill Tolka next year with friendly matches, and who the hell will want to play us anyway.
Yes they will.

Do you think Joe Public will turn own the chance to see Brazil next February at Croke park?

[Qwerty]

How would David O'Leary,, Gus Hiddink or anyone else make a difference unless they were prepared to make the hard decisions:
- take the captaincy from Robbie Keane
- make Richard Dunne team captain
- drop Robbie Keane
- ensure that O'Shea and McGeady never ever play for Ireland again
- build around Andy Reid
- give Stephen Hunt at least 6 guaranteed starts
- give Stephen Gleeson at least 6 gurarenteed starts
- give Kevin Kilbane a Left Back start for the next 6 games
- send Kevin Doyle to specialist training to improve his first touch
- tell Stephen Ireland to come back when he has grown up

Is this the Stephen Gleeson of Wolve's reserves fame who played so poorly in the recent U21 game against Portugal? Maybe you meant the O'Halloran chap?

Agree with all the rest except for building a team around Reid, he's a little injury prone for that but a talented and committed player.

[Morbo]

How would David O'Leary,, Gus Hiddink or anyone else make a difference unless they were prepared to make the hard decisions:
- take the captaincy from Robbie Keane
- make Richard Dunne team captain
- drop Robbie Keane
- ensure that O'Shea and McGeady never ever play for Ireland again
- build around Andy Reid
- give Stephen Hunt at least 6 guaranteed starts
- give Stephen Gleeson at least 6 gurarenteed starts
- give Kevin Kilbane a Left Back start for the next 6 games
- send Kevin Doyle to specialist training to improve his first touch
- tell Stephen Ireland to come back when he has grown up

Agree with most of that, I'm confident a new manager would select his own choice of captain and Dunne seems the obvious choice, Given vice captain.
Not sure about building the team around Reid, he is a good player and should be a starter but I don't think he(or anyone on the team) team is good enough to build a team around

[galwayhoop]

How would David O'Leary,, Gus Hiddink or anyone else make a difference unless they were prepared to make the hard decisions:
- take the captaincy from Robbie Keane
- make Richard Dunne team captain
- drop Robbie Keane
- ensure that O'Shea and McGeady never ever play for Ireland again
- build around Andy Reid
- give Stephen Hunt at least 6 guaranteed starts
- give Stephen Gleeson at least 6 gurarenteed starts
- give Kevin Kilbane a Left Back start for the next 6 games
- send Kevin Doyle to specialist training to improve his first touch
- tell Stephen Ireland to come back when he has grown up

can't agree with building a team around any player. what happens if they are injured when a game comes around (which is very likely with a.reid in particular)!

as for specialist training for an individual payer - unfortunately things like this are done at their clubs, there is no way a manager can do these things when the team meets up for internationals. this time is for the team to get used to each other and work on the tactical issues for the game ahead (supposidely).

[stojkovic]

Yes they will.

Do you think Joe Public will turn own the chance to see Brazil next February at Croke park?

Like the 17,000 Joe Publics who turned up to watch Brasil the last time we were in this mess (1987 in Lansdowne, capacity 49,000 at the time).


Anyway are Brasil confirmed for Feb ?

[soccerc]

Like the 17,000 Joe Publics who turned up to watch Brasil the last time we were in this mess (1987 in Lansdowne, capacity 49,000 at the time).


Anyway are Brasil confirmed for Feb ?

My info is definite for 6 Feb 2008 to be combined with another friendly for late March, opposition to be confirmed with double tickets priced at €100 minimum

[NeilMcD]

What was that Soccerc about Stauntong going to resign or the FAI not standing in his way. Any updates on that.

[soccerc]

What was that Soccerc about Stauntong going to resign or the FAI not standing in his way. Any updates on that.

Read it again!

If he walked they wouldn't stand in his way.

Then next day he gets the vote of confidence and all the Ireland supports in Prague stayed back for 20 minutes after the game to applaud him.

[NeilMcD]

So it was a statement really that meant nothing. I am not having a go at you at all here but why would the FAI come out and give him the vote of confidence if they were expectinig him to walk and that they would not stand in his way.

[OwlsFan]

The supporters weren't allowed by the police to exit the ground for 20 minutes. So they made the best of a bad lot. Who are those who remained at home to condemn those who made the journey?

[soccerc]

So it was a statement really that meant nothing. I am not having a go at you at all here but why would the FAI come out and give him the vote of confidence if they were expectinig him to walk and that they would not stand in his way.

Expecting him, no, wanting him, yes.

Giving him a vote of confidence when he wouldn't walk was a self preservation action.

[NeilMcD]

Sorry so they wanted him to walk so why then would they not sack him. (probably due to money).

So instead of freezing him out like they did with Brian Kerr they come out and suport him. This does not make sense whatsoever. If they dont want him as manager why are they coming out and supporting him in public.

[soccerc]

Sorry so they wanted him to walk so why then would they not sack him. (probably due to money).

So instead of freezing him out like they did with Brian Kerr they come out and suport him. This does not make sense whatsoever. If they dont want him as manager why are they coming out and supporting him in public.

I'll leave that up to your imagination but it's very obvious, and nothing to do with monetary compensation.

[galwayhoop]

Who are those who remained at home to condemn those who made the journey?

i don't think anyone was. we all know that at certain grounds the away supporters are held back by the police. and we all also know that the JD story of fans staying behind for 20 mins to support the team and manager was pure and utter spin.

although while Stan was being interviewed after the game you could clearly hear very loud singing, i think the Fields of Athenry, and you just knew it was ripe for spin.

[galwayhoop]

on a side note did, anyone else notice the pictures of the crowd toward the end of the game where the irish fans shown were more interested in waving and smiling at the camera (one red headed knob in particular) and didn't seem to care one ioata that our euro08 dreams were vanishing down the swanny!

a lot of the crowd who travel overseas nowadays don't care one bit about the football but are just there for the drink and sh1tetalk. now don't get me wrong i am not a killjoy and make the most of trips away to support ireland and even after defeat i attempt to enjoy myself but i at least have an interest in the game while it's on not like some of these clowns.