Why Ireland are Crap at Soccer

[finnpark]

(1) Government: Lack of investment in soccer is unreal. GAA is their priority followed by horse racing Fixing. They are destroying proper competitive international sport in this country.

(2) Support of UK football clubs by "Irish" soccer "fans". We promote English and Scottish soccer, lets start supporting our home teams , buy Irish teams' merchantdise etc. UK clubs pulling th p*ss out of Irish people by cashing in.

(3) Youth structure: Not one professional youth academy in Ireland. All our 13, 14, 15 year olds are promised the world from UK clubs only to find that they are just making up numbers and are not cared about. England are not even developing youth, so how do we expect to compete over there?

(4) FAI Policy: Employing people who are also agents for UK clubs, promoting the export of our youth talent to the UK, lack of capability to secure meaningfull Government funding, lack of interest in setting up professional youth academies, lack of protection of Irish soccer clubs from UK market, youth development strategy and lack of accountability of underage managers such as Don Givens , Vinny Butler etc.

(5) GAA: We are a small country and unfortunately our culture is on a collision force with our development of other sports.


Until the above issues are sorted there is no future for Irish soccer, we will not win anything. The best we can hope for is qualification for competitions.

The Eircom league is ranked higher than the International team in the equivalent rankings. Both our clubs and national side cannot qualify for competitions.

THE SOLUTION:

(1) Stop promoting and supporting British clubs. Start supporting Irish clubs.

(2) Stop supporting GAA.

(3) Lobby Government for funding.

(4) Set up professional youth academies in each province and in Dublin.

(5) Ban FAI staff at all levels from acting as agents for UK clubs.

(6) Stop the exploitation of our young players by UK clubs.

Stop exporting and promote sustainability. We are one of the wealthiest nations in the world per capita but we have soccer federation who lack accountability and intellect.

[sligoman]

Football.

[finnpark]

Football.

? Football=soccer as opposed to other football games such as Gaelic and Rugby etc

[Lionel Ritchie]

(2) Stop supporting GAA.
Agreed. But why the half measure? If it's not to be supported why not just ban it?




(3) Lobby Government for funding.

.
Best of luck. Let us know how that goes for you.


(6) Stop the exploitation of our young players by UK clubs.
. what -do they have them stitching cheap leather wallets or assembling DVD players after training or something?

[hoops1]

(5) Ban FAI staff at all levels from acting as agents for UK clubs

Excellent point there finnpark. Something that never dawned on me before.
Scandolous when you think about it

[Torn-Ado]

We're Irish.

We do sporting failure in a dramatic fashion. Its no ones fault. Its just our sh*tty destiny.

[kingdomkerry]

THE SOLUTION:

(1) Stop promoting and supporting British clubs. Start supporting Irish clubs.

(2) Stop supporting GAA.

(3) Lobby Government for funding.

(4) Set up professional youth academies in each province and in Dublin.

(5) Ban FAI staff at all levels from acting as agents for UK clubs.

(6) Stop the exploitation of our young players by UK clubs.

Stop exporting and promote sustainability. We are one of the wealthiest nations in the world per capita but we have soccer federation who lack accountability and intellect.[/quote]


All great points except for No. 2. The GAA will always be supported and it does'nt have to be at the expense of Soccer. I dont support any English Soccer team. I would'nt like to feel like a hypocrit cheering for players that i hope will break their legs when playing for England.

The way I see it Im not from Manchester or Liverpool so I would feel like a fool supporting Utd or Liverpool. Whats my alternative support my local team in Ireland.............O wait Kerry dont have a team in the LOI. Plan b support Kerry in the football!!! 35 All Irelands!!!!!!!!!:cool:

[Torn-Ado]

Another point. All this bullsh*t blaming the Government, the GAA, UK football etc is all very tiresome and convenient.

Did a GAA player score the last minute equaliser against us last night? Or a Government minister perhaps?

The truth is, the problem with the Irish football team is not any of the factors that Finnpark mentions. They majority of our players play in one of the best leagues in the world and we have players playing in the champions league too. The reason we are ****e is down to bad management, lack of leadership and general incompetence on the field by our underperforming players.

So save your blame of GAA/Government/UK football for something else.

[backstothewall]

(1) Stop promoting and supporting British clubs. Start supporting Irish clubs.

The product simply isn't good enough. Why should fans spend a saturday afternoon at Turners Cross at €16 when they can sit warm in their living room on a comfortable sofa and have Setanta beam in the finest league in the world at €18 per month.

Its pie in the sky to suggest that any Irish league could ever match the English premier league in terms of quality, but there is no reason why it couldn't match the likes of Scotland or Portugal's leagues.

But for this to happen requires the suits in both Merrion Square and Windsor Avenue to stop squabling over who gets to fly first class, and 19 year old Man United reserve players, and do something for the benefit of the irish game.

Irish football needs an all ireland premier league, of 12-16 clubs, with proper youth academys and decent comfortable stadiums. This would be to the benefit of the top sides and youth development on both sides of the border.

Cork City: Turners Cross (7485)
Derry City: The Brandwell (7,700) - 8000 all seater maybe one day
Galway United: Terryland (5000)
Linfield: Windsor Park (20,332)
Glentoran: The Oval (14,000) at present
Belfast Celtic - Bring them back!! Belfast Celtic v Linfield was the biggest fixture in Irish football.
Shamrock Rovers: Tallaght (when its done) 6000
Shelbourne: Tolka Park (9,700)
St. Pats: Richmond Park (5,500)
Bohemians: Dalymount (8,000)

*(Capacitys have been lifted from wikipedia and Worldstadiums.com)

Realistically these clubs for reasons of infastrucure, geography, history and finance, have to be the backbone of irish foootball. Only Linfield has a stadium with any sort of a capacity, end it is in a bad way. The fact some of these clubs can't fill the stadiums they have would suggest to me the product is very overpriced. With the Dublin clubs it would surely be possible to move out of the city centre to Greenfield sites, build 20,000+ stadiums with the proceeds of the sale of the land

To have these clubs split between two leagues makes it impossible for a competative league with enough revenue running through it to have a product worth me leaving the house on a saturday. Living in Belfast yesterday i had the choice of Crusaders beating Limavady 1-0 or Cliftonville beating Donegal Celtic 1-0. I watched the All Blacks.

If for example Belfast Celtic had been playing Cork City in a nice modern stadium, i could get in for less than a £10/€15, there was a couple of decent young local players, a few experienced former premiership players (the likes of Nick Barmby, Robbie Fowler, Mark Burchill who are all still playing) etc or entertaining foreigners (i.e. a Brazilian with a funny name), i might have made a different decision. Especially if it is played during the summer when there is no English or Scottish leagues,

I don't think any of this is out of the realms of possibility with the right co-operation between both governments, FAI, IFA and TV companies.

[eekers]

its because if anything the enphasis on winning at a youth level in irish football.
in reality it doesnt matter if you win a u14s match.
at that age you should be concentrating on learning your skills.
i mean foreign teams come over for the milk cup etc and we occasionally give them a pasting and feel real proud of ourselves. but it adds up to nothing. it just means we have a team of gaa hoofers able to knock skillful little fellas off the ball. we're not developing football player of any technical ability this way.

[bobloblaw]

Crap manager. That's why.. We've a good bunch of players that just need some proper guidance and a manager that isn't completely inept at this level. I'd sack Steve already if it was up to me.

[Qwerty]

It's not that complicated lads. It's just down to tactics and players knowing what to do. We've gotten into a rut where we always sit back on a lead, and we don't have the players to defend like that. At least under Charlton we used route 1 so we could take pressure off, now that we play football it's not as easy and takes a bit of smarts. We had nobody in midfield who can dictate a game, slow it down etc

I take it this thread is due to Douglas's error in not picking up Cech, that was a Stan mistake as far as I'm concerned, putting on a destructive player was always just going to just put more pressure on us as Douglas would just give away possession. In the end he didn't do the part of the job he was put on to do, pick up players and snuff out threats.

[Bucky-O'Hare]

"If for example Belfast Celtic had been playing Cork City in a nice modern stadium, i could get in for less than a £10/€15, there was a couple of decent young local players, a few experienced former premiership players (the likes of Nick Barmby, Robbie Fowler, Mark Burchill who are all still playing) etc or entertaining foreigners (i.e. a Brazilian with a funny name), i might have made a different decision."

You want to pay £10/15euro to get and and at the same time expect to see ex premiership players. Good luck with that wee fantasy!

[dfx-]

The product simply isn't good enough. Why should fans spend a saturday afternoon at Turners Cross at €16 when they can sit warm in their living room on a comfortable sofa and have Setanta beam in the finest league in the world at €18 per month.


*bites*

They should because if they want Ireland to be better at football and not play like they are, then they have to be prepared to sacrifice their best league in the world and their comfy sofa and state-of-the-art remote control with satellite navigation.

I know it's hard to bother with long term goals and sacrifice and something the FAI have never encouraged, but there you go.

[finnpark]

All great points except for No. 2. The GAA will always be supported and it does'nt have to be at the expense of Soccer. I dont support any English Soccer team. I would'nt like to feel like a hypocrit cheering for players that i hope will break their legs when playing for England.

The way I see it Im not from Manchester or Liverpool so I would feel like a fool supporting Utd or Liverpool. Whats my alternative support my local team in Ireland.............O wait Kerry dont have a team in the LOI. Plan b support Kerry in the football!!! 35 All Irelands!!!!!!!!!:cool:


Fair point. Yes, its a pity the FAI don't see the marketability for a county versus county sort of thing even at Intermediate/Junior level to see which county has the best amateur players.

I think it is a joke that the pale have about 10 teams in the league, Cork two and so many other counties with none in sight.

[finnpark]

Another point. All this bullsh*t blaming the Government, the GAA, UK football etc is all very tiresome and convenient.

Did a GAA player score the last minute equaliser against us last night? Or a Government minister perhaps?



You have missed the point totally.

So lets say we get the best manager in the world and all the current players get their act togetehr and start trying, give up the booze etc. Let say we were getting the best of the players.

We would still win nothing and still would only qualify every so often. To me that is not good enough and I want to see bigger progress. I want to be proud of a team that has actually won something , not some team that goes out with heads held high and forgotten about by the rest of the world. What I am suggesting is attainable but the mindset of the Irish public needs to change.

To answer your question the points I made at the start are responsible for what happened last night and what is going to happen for the rest of our lifetimes unless significant change is presented by forward thinking people.

If the highlight of your supporting your country is to manage to beat Slovakia then you don't hold the same aspirations as myself.

[finnpark]

The product simply isn't good enough.

That is what I am trying to point out and I have given the reasoning, in my opinion, behind why the product is not good enough and what we need to do. :)

[finnpark]

Crap manager. That's why.. We've a good bunch of players that just need some proper guidance and a manager that isn't completely inept at this level. I'd sack Steve already if it was up to me.

So if we get a good manager we will be capable of winning what? A qualification group? :rolleyes: Yipee

[half_full]

THE SOLUTION:

(1) Stop promoting and supporting British clubs. Start supporting Irish clubs.

(2) Stop supporting GAA.

(3) Lobby Government for funding.

(4) Set up professional youth academies in each province and in Dublin.

(5) Ban FAI staff at all levels from acting as agents for UK clubs.

(6) Stop the exploitation of our young players by UK clubs.

Stop exporting and promote sustainability. We are one of the wealthiest nations in the world per capita but we have soccer federation who lack accountability and intellect.


All great points except for No. 2. The GAA will always be supported and it does'nt have to be at the expense of Soccer. I dont support any English Soccer team. I would'nt like to feel like a hypocrit cheering for players that i hope will break their legs when playing for England.

The way I see it Im not from Manchester or Liverpool so I would feel like a fool supporting Utd or Liverpool. Whats my alternative support my local team in Ireland.............O wait Kerry dont have a team in the LOI. Plan b support Kerry in the football!!! 35 All Irelands!!!!!!!!!:cool:
[/QUOTE]

Cork or Cobh for you then:)

[Stuttgart88]

If the highlight of your supporting your country is to manage to beat Slovakia then you don't hold the same aspirations as myself. Ludicrous comment. Beating Slovakia would have been a small but meaningful step forward, no more than that & nobody here would think differently.

[backstothewall]

Thing is i would be willing to pay a bit more than a tenner to see decent football

Cardiff city v Preston is on sale right now online at £18.50stg and £5.50stg for adults and kids respectibly, seeing the likes of Jimmy Floyd Hasslebaink, Robbie Fowler, Ricky Shimeca, Trevor Sinclair, Micheal Oaks, Peter Whittingham, Callum Davidson, Darren Carter, Paul Gallagher, Wayne Henderson, Brett Ormerod, Neil Mellor and Patrick Agyemang. The Irish players include Stephen McPhail (whatever happened to him), Tony Capaldi and Willo Flood (though he's away on loan at the minute),Andy Lonergan and Sean St Ledger. I feel my statement is valid. Maybe less than a tenner is a bit optomistic, but getting value for money is not a fantasy, and Irish football is badly overpriced. Truth is i have other things i can do on a saturday.


I know it's hard to bother with long term goals and sacrifice and something the FAI have never encouraged, but there you go.

Not my job!! I do bother with those things, but when i do i do it for my own personal benefit. Maybe that makes me selfish, but I'm selfish with £20k outstanding on my mortage at 24 yo. Go figure.

Lifes hard and football isn't a charity, like it or not its in the entertainment business. I'm in belfast, and as a football fan the best sport i can see is Ice Hockey, Hurling or Rugby. I've paid to see all three, I've only paid to see Man United in this city, thats a disgrace in a footballing city and country, and it isn't my fault the product is too expensive and too poor.

And the point of all this is that a decent league benefits the international side, as local players get the chance of playing a decent standard of fooball, at home. We should have higher ambitions than beating Slovakia, the reigning champions of the competition we are failing to qualify for are Greece, and Denmark have won it before. Countries not that much bigger than this one.

[kingdomkerry]

Hears my plan to save Irish football.



It has to be an all ireland basis to have any chance. The only clubs that are eligible are clubs that have a possibiltiy of attracting big crowds ie large populations



1.Belfast Celtic (practically dont exist i know)


2.Dublin City (merger of north dublin clubs ie Bohs Shels etc)


3.Dubin United (merger of south dublin clubs pats, ucd etc)


4.Shamrock Rovers (Tallagh has a population of 100,000)


5.Cork City (big city if they played in the EPL they would have 40/50K every game.)


6.Munster FC (Based in Limerick merger of Limerick 37, Waterford, Kerry League, Tipp and Clare.


7.Connaght FC (based in galway)


8.Derry City


9.Linfield


10.Glentoran


11. North Leinster FC (based in louth).
12. South Leinster FC (based in Kilkenny)


All the clubs that merge would stay seperate for U21 etc.



Also an annual All Ireland Championship for ametuers/juniors with 32 teams one from each county. Same as GAA football championship.




Fantasy Land, but it would work!!!!!

[sligoman]

7.Connaght FC (based in galway)

Fantasy Land, but it would work!!!!!Fantasy land indeed. I know I'd have no interest in supporting a team based in Galway and I'm fairly sure most Rovers fans wouldn't either. The whole Connacht thing means nothing to me.

[dfx-]

Not my job!! I do bother with those things, but when i do i do it for my own personal benefit. Maybe that makes me selfish, but I'm selfish with £20k outstanding on my mortage at 24 yo. Go figure.


Fair enough you then deserve the Ireland team that is on display on your snazzy tv and your mortgaged house. As with a lot of things, if you're not prepared to put the work in, then don't expect to get much return.

In having lofty expectations, aspirations and demands, you're expecting Irish football to run a marathon before it can crawl 10 yards. Good luck to you with that. Or is it that you can't discover the link between Irish football and the Ireland you see on your television?

[kingdomkerry]

Fantasy land indeed. I know I'd have no interest in supporting a team based in Galway and I'm fairly sure most Rovers fans wouldn't either. The whole Connacht thing means nothing to me.


See this is what is wrong with irish soccer. Sligo is a town of 30,000 it can never go anywhere. No offence but a team that plays in front of 500 people and a dog has no business in playing in the premier league of any proud soccer nation!!!!!! The provincial thing works brilliant with munster rugby, no reason the same thing could'nt work for Connaght in the soccer. You could still support Sligo Rovers maybe in the Connacht senior League or something.

[sligoman]

No offence but a team that plays in front of 500 people and a dog has no business in playing in the premier league of any proud soccer nation!!!!!!I'm not offended by that because it's bull****. Did you do any research into our Premier Division attendances before guessing 500 people?...and a dog;)

[kingdomkerry]

I'm not offended by that because it's bull****. Did you do any research into our Premier Division attendances before guessing 500 people?...and a dog;)

Sorry about that. I meant 600 people and 2 dogs:D

[mackannovic]

THE SOLUTION:



(1) Stop promoting and supporting British clubs. Start supporting Irish clubs.



(2) Stop supporting GAA.



(3) Lobby Government for funding.



(4) Set up professional youth academies in each province and in Dublin.



(5) Ban FAI staff at all levels from acting as agents for UK clubs.



(6) Stop the exploitation of our young players by UK clubs.



Stop exporting and promote sustainability. We are one of the wealthiest nations in the world per capita but we have soccer federation who lack accountability and intellect.




All great points except for No. 2. The GAA will always be supported and it does'nt have to be at the expense of Soccer. I dont support any English Soccer team. I would'nt like to feel like a hypocrit cheering for players that i hope will break their legs when playing for England.



The way I see it Im not from Manchester or Liverpool so I would feel like a fool supporting Utd or Liverpool. Whats my alternative support my local team in Ireland.............O wait Kerry dont have a team in the LOI. Plan b support Kerry in the football!!! 35 All Irelands!!!!!!!!!:cool:
[/quote]


Maybe we could start by not appointing people with the mental capacity and social attributes of a 5 year old child to be the national coach.

[Not Brazil]

I don't think any of this is out of the realms of possibility with the right co-operation between both governments, FAI, IFA and TV companies.

Something tells me that relationships between the FAI and the IFA are about to get somewhat frosty.

Pity.

[eelmonster]

Hears my plan to save Irish football.
It has to be an all ireland basis to have any chance. The only clubs that are eligible are clubs that have a possibiltiy of attracting big crowds ie large populations
1.Belfast Celtic (practically dont exist i know)
2.Dublin City (merger of north dublin clubs ie Bohs Shels etc)
3.Dubin United (merger of south dublin clubs pats, ucd etc)
4.Shamrock Rovers (Tallagh has a population of 100,000)
5.Cork City (big city if they played in the EPL they would have 40/50K every game.)
6.Munster FC (Based in Limerick merger of Limerick 37, Waterford, Kerry League, Tipp and Clare.
7.Connaght FC (based in galway)
8.Derry City
9.Linfield
10.Glentoran
11. North Leinster FC (based in louth). 12. South Leinster FC (based in Kilkenny)

All the clubs that merge would stay seperate for U21 etc.
Also an annual All Ireland Championship for ametuers/juniors with 32 teams one from each county. Same as GAA football championship.

Fantasy Land, but it would work!!!!!

If it would work why haven't Kildare County managed to attract the support of the entire county of Kildare? Or why didn't Dublin City garner popular support from the unaffiliated football fans in the Hibernian metropolis?

But you're right, it is complete fantasy land and illogical: why keep Derry, Cork, Rovers, Linfield, imaginary Belfast Celtic and Glentoran yet merge the other teams in Dublin, Louth, the rest of Munster and Connaught? Where do Harps fit in? And Monaghan?

I'm not brow beating you, nor am I being completely rhetorical - I'm curious to know, because you're obviously not a avid follower of the LOI.

[backstothewall]

Fair enough you then deserve the Ireland team that is on display on your snazzy tv and your mortgaged house. As with a lot of things, if you're not prepared to put the work in, then don't expect to get much return.

In having lofty expectations, aspirations and demands, you're expecting Irish football to run a marathon before it can crawl 10 yards. Good luck to you with that. Or is it that you can't discover the link between Irish football and the Ireland you see on your television?

The Ireland team on display, with Doyle and a small few recent exceptions aside, have nothing to do with Irish football. They were trained and make their career in England, and have succeded in spite of the structures here, not because of them.

All I have suggested is what comparable nations across the continent have had in place for decades. If every single fan in Ireland turned up at the turnstile every week for the next year, it would make no difference, apart from more money to squander on another pointless corporate re-branding, and FAI council members flying super-duper class instead of business class to away trips in Finland or whoever we draw in the world cup.

The pie is being sliced to many ways, on clubs like Finn Harps and Drogheda who simply don't have the income, and never will. Having them in the league means interestless fixtures, and actually paying to watch them does nothing to benefit Irish football, it means the directors get a free bar.

The Setanta Cup has shown the future, but only with fixtures like Linfield v Shelbourne, not Drogheda United v Dungannon Swifts. That is why it was St. Pats and not Sligo playing in it this year. And if a decent league was formed, and the stadiums were full(er), and a decent TV deal was done, then the money will be there to improve facilities, which in turn will bring more people through the turnstiles.

The alternative is slow death, because people won't pay over the odds to watch glorified pub sides. As any Omagh Town fan you want


Something tells me that relationships between the FAI and the IFA are about to get somewhat frosty.

Pity.

It is a pity, they need each other. I'm sure you can't enjoy those away trips to watch the Blues hammer Larne, Armagh and Institute. Any Linfield or Glens fans i know relished the competative matches Setanta brings, regardless of the politics of it. The blues fans in particular loved being "All Ireland Champions".

[Bucky-O'Hare]

See this is what is wrong with irish soccer. Sligo is a town of 30,000 it can never go anywhere.


So is Villareal and they almost reached the champions league final. Impossible is nothing my friend. Its time to start thinking outside the box! I bet it isn't only people from their small town that support Villareal otherwise they wouldn't be so successful. Rural football (of which I am one) supporters should recognise that there is a league in this country and it is entertaining. Yes I said it, the LOI IS ENTERTAINING! I pay a tenner every week to go the Brandywell as Im not a season ticket holder this year. After a weeks work theres no better way to spend a friday evening to kick off the weekend. Well worth a tenner!

[tetsujin1979]

Rural football (of which I am one) supporters should recognise that there is a league in this country and it is entertaining. Yes I said it, the LOI IS ENTERTAINING!
Can you really see people from Tipperary supporting a team based out of Limerick or Cork?

[Bucky-O'Hare]

Why not? Back in the 80's when Derry City were popular there were supporters clubs in strabane and a few towns in Inishowen! If people from those areas can support a team in Derry City then it can happen anywhere in Ireland!

[Lionel Ritchie]

Can you really see people from Tipperary supporting a team based out of Limerick or Cork?

My personal favourite was merging Waterford into a club based in Limerick -rendering half a dozen of their away games closer than their home games. :o

[OwlsFan]

Hmmmm, let me think. "Why Ireland hasn't won the World Cup?". A population of a few million, most of whom play the national game, Gaelic football or hurling and where playing soccer by them was banned up to a decade or so ago. Other than Holland, I am struggling to think of a country of comparable size that has achieved anything of note in world or European football. I wonder are the Scottish, Welsh, Latvian and Lithuanian boards full of people raging against their Associations, managers and players :rolleyes:

Some people need to get a grip and lower their expectations. We are a pin***** of a country population wise with no decent home league with soccer very much the second sport. We can dream of course but that's different to living in fantasy land.

[gypsydownunder]

You want to pay £10/15euro to get and and at the same time expect to see ex premiership players. Good luck with that wee fantasy!
Reply With Quote

I paid A$23 [that's less than 10 sterling] last weekend to see Sydney FC featuring none other than Juninho [and also Tony Popovic, ex Premier League Captain with Crystal Palace]. Sydney lost by the way, but that's not the point. The crowd was about 18,000. Modest. And a similar situation is entirely possibly in Ireland.

[gypsydownunder]

Other than Holland, I am struggling to think of a country of comparable size that has achieved anything of note in world or European football.

Well Uruguay have won TWO World Cups. Granted it was a long time ago.

But Denmark 92 is surely comparable?

And on the Holland thing, Ireland should have won in Gelsenkirchen!

[gspain]

There are a few different issues here

1) the national team

2) Domestic league football.

3) under age amateur football etc etc

Football is thriving in this country and underage amateur level etc. We have significantly more peole playing the game than any other sport ref the ESRI study 13% v 8% for next highest GAA. Football is now played in every corner of this country too. when it first overtook GAA as the most played sport in the early 80's it was mainly down to the sheer numbers in Dublin and other big towns and cities. The ending of the ban meaning that the likes of Shay Given's father would no longer have to travel to games in the boot of a car and that the captaining the Irish schoolboys is no longer considered serious enough for exulsion from school (aka Liam Brady) certainly helps here.

However this support does not translate into a successful domestic game. There are 4,000 people from this country at every Man Utd home game. I don't know the figures for Liverpool et al but they are also significant not to mention those on barstools and on sofas. Now those of us who follow the domestic game can say what we like but this is the reality. Frankly I still see it as an opportunity and a successful team here would have many bandwagon jumpers aka Sunderland. GAA and rugby have an huge advantage here. Nobody travels over from Limerick to watch Leicester or Wasps every weekend. GAA is really only played here.

The national team has in the recent past being comprised of players who headed off to England at 15 or 16 having played for one of the many well run schoolboy sides. This played alongside other young lads from England, Scotland et al. Now however English clubs are scouting the world for talent and this will mean we'll need to develop more and more players at home.

Banning the GAA nad rugby are not realistic and anyway banning playstations and alcopops would have a far greater effect.

The imperative to improve the domestic game is far greater now as it will also impact on the national team in the future. We don't have the easy option now of English clubs to develop our players.

[Dodge]

Spot on dfx and gspain. Well put, without resorting to the usual LOI tripe (that I've used in the past..)

Anybody who thinks the national coach/team manager is the most important position in Irish football is completely wide of the mark

[Stuttgart88]

True, but it is an important position.

Some of my thoughts, in no particular order:


Yes, we’re a small country so we’ll always be up against it statistically, but we’ve brought through quality players in the past, have a few at the moment and have some coming through. It takes a bit of a fluke to bring through a whole bunch at any one time. Even the big countries find this. In the past we’ve been able to rely on the granny rule to fill key gaps, but an improving economy turns off the emigration tap so it’s unlikely we’ll ever see the same number of Irish eligible UK born players as we saw in the 70s/80s/90s.

A stronger domestic league would complement the existing trend of young kids going to the UK on apprentice schemes. Personally I think it’s unlikely one of our first choice internationals will at the time be playing LOI, but playing in a good LOI is already being seen as an alternative to trying your luck in the UK lower leagues.

We’re unlikely to ever have the bulk of our team playing regularly for the best sides in England. Only Finnan really fits this bill, then maybe Robbie and Duff who more than held his own at Chelsea. Given is good enough, Dunne maybe and Doyle could get there. Then again, the countries we’re competing with (second tier and third tier countries) are hardly well represented at these clubs either, but they do have players playing at the top of the second tier leagues in Europe. As a respected poster over on chatsoccer frequently cites, how can you play internationals with players who don’t play internationally?

It's a global game / industry and like any Irish exporter struggling to cope with intense foreign competition we should find new markets or better develop the home market. A more competitive home market and other European markets are required to fill the gaps in my opinion.

International football is on the wane in terms of its influence in the overall scheme of things. In club vs country conflicts there’ll only ever be one winner. I think the big showpiece finals apart, the governing bodies could do more to re-establish international football as the pinnacle of the sport.

Vanity investors taking their money to the UK rather that investing it at home doesn’t help. I know the late 70s Shamrock Rovers venture failed (Giles aiming for UEFA Cup success, ex-anglos returning home…) but it’d be interesting to see a few of the Irish mega rich investing at home. I mean if Peterborough is seen as an attractive investment for Darragh MacAnthony, why not a LOI club?

Is the system really that badly broken anyway? An injury-time equaliser, a very late miss by Keane, a deflected goal conceded in Stuttgart, a late miss by Dunne, missing a 2 time CL finalist full back, missing or not having a match sharp Given for critical games, a stubborn manager who doesn’t really understand how to set out a team & who fails to learn some pretty obvious lessons from other games, and we’re still (nominally) in contention to qualify?

[Torn-Ado]

If we held out for one minute on Saturday, this thread wouldn't even have existed.

Thats the sad thing.

[endabob1]

There are so many discussions going on here it's hard to know where to start but as has been pointed out there are 3 main elements to "Football in this country"
1 - Junior/Under age football
2 - National League
3 - National Team

I honestly think that if our under age system and our National League improve it will inevitably improve the national team. The best players will always look to go overseas to bigger leagues where there is more money but is it unrealistic to look for a 10 team top flight with attendances of Circa 10k at each of the 5 games on a weekend? To me that would be a sustainable league that would be generating sufficient cash to keep players from leaving at 16.
For me the FAI would do a lot worse than to look at the centre of excellence that the FA set up at Lilleshall to develop young players. It has since been abandoned as the EPL clubs want players to remain in their own acadameys
but A proper centre of excellence with top class coahing (Liam Brady would be an ideal candidate) where players would live in and can be developed would go a long way to improving the underage teams and in turn these players would feed into the national league which would improve the standard of the league.

[Dodge]

Is the system really that badly broken anyway? ...we’re still (nominally) in contention to qualify?
[/LIST]

The problem with that is that the relative success of the international team has masked the massive problems with in Irish football.

The point you make that the LOI is never really going to provide the players to the international team is true. However, a strong LOI would raise the general level of players from Ireland, and particularly give young Irish players a far more appealing environment in which to see if they really are good enough for the premiership etc.

Of course the cream of Irish talent will head to bigger leagues, but that’s the cae with most small European nations (Holland, Sweden, Denmark). Denmark has a population of 5.5million. Their football clubs regularly get 10-15k at each game. The Belgium crowds average something similar. No LOI fan thinks we should be getting 20-30k per game but if the league averaged 7-10k at every game, there's no doubt Irish football, as a whole, would improve.

[tetsujin1979]

The problem with that is that the relative success of the international team has masked the massive problems with in Irish football.

The point you make that the LOI is never really going to provide the players to the international team is true. However, a strong LOI would raise the general level of players from Ireland, and particularly give young Irish players a far more appealing environment in which to see if they really are good enough for the premiership etc.

Of course the cream of Irish talent will head to bigger leagues, but that’s the cae with most small European nations (Holland, Sweden, Denmark). Denmark has a population of 5.5million. Their football clubs regularly get 10-15k at each game. The Belgium crowds average something similar. No LOI fan thinks we should be getting 20-30k per game but if the league averaged 7-10k at every game, there's no doubt Irish football, as a whole, would improve.

Could you really see that many people going to LOI games?
I don't think we have the population centres to sustain that over a season.

[Dodge]

Could you really see that many people going to LOI games?
I don't think we have the population centres to sustain that over a season.

As I pointed out, Denmark have a population of 5.5m and Copenhagen get average crowds of 23k, Odense get averages of 10k. Only reason LOI games aren't well attended is that football fans look to the UK first (facilities play a part but thats obviously part of the vicious money circle)

[tetsujin1979]

As I pointed out, Denmark have a population of 5.5m and Copenhagen get average crowds of 23k, Odense get averages of 10k. Only reason LOI games aren't well attended is that football fans look to the UK first (facilities play a part but thats obviously part of the vicious money circle)
Fair enough, according to wikipedia, Odense has a population of 150,000 making it between Cork and Limerick in terms of population, but does soccer have any other major competitors for attendance, equivalent to GAA and Rugby in Limerick and Cork?
Copenhagen has a population in or around 1.8m, making it about the same as Dublin, but are Copenhagen the only club side there, i.e. are there 5 or 6 clubs in the area all vying for attendance? Again, there's GAA and Rugby in Dublin, does Copenhagen have the same attractions?
Money comes into it too, I went to 5 of Limerick's GAA games this year, all the home soccer internationals, Limerick 37 games, underage internationals, I would have gone to the rugby if I could have laid my hands on tickets, and made it to some of Munster's home games in Thomond Park, but I realise eventually something there will give, there's no way I can go on attending all these games.
For many people, GAA will traditionally come first, in places rugby is the main sport, for some LOI is the only way to go, but for a majority given the choice, it will be last.

[Torn-Ado]

Fair enough, according to wikipedia, Odense has a population of 150,000 making it between Cork and Limerick in terms of population, but does soccer have any other major competitors for attendance, equivalent to GAA and Rugby in Limerick and Cork?
Copenhagen has a population in or around 1.8m, making it about the same as Dublin, but are Copenhagen the only club side there, i.e. are there 5 or 6 clubs in the area all vying for attendance? Again, there's GAA and Rugby in Dublin, does Copenhagen have the same attractions?
Money comes into it too, I went to 5 of Limerick's GAA games this year, all the home soccer internationals, Limerick 37 games, underage internationals, I would have gone to the rugby if I could have laid my hands on tickets, and made it to some of Munster's home games in Thomond Park, but I realise eventually something there will give, there's no way I can go on attending all these games.
For many people, GAA will traditionally come first, in places rugby is the main sport, for some LOI is the only way to go, but for a majority given the choice, it will be last.

Brondby and FC Copenhagen are the two main teams in the city

[Stuttgart88]

the vicious money circle
Will Bohs' windfall have an effect?

What would / could happen if another Derry City situation came about., i.e., out of nowhere a team brings thousands to away games and has huge attendances at home? Could the game take advantage this time?

I went to Wasps vs Leinster last April or whenever and among the Leinster "ultras" were soccer supporting mates of mine from Tallaght and other parts of Dublin who just loved being part of a vociferous and decent sized support who actually had a half-decent / important spectacle to watch. These guys would be out at Rovers in a flash if Cork or Derry or whoever were to bring a few thousand fans along to a game.

[Dodge]

These guys would be out at Rovers in a flash if Cork or Derry or whoever were to bring a few thousand fans along to a game.
I don't think fans in Dublin would every come out to see the away team, or their fans.

And BTW we're Richer than Bohs ;)


For many people, GAA will traditionally come first, in places rugby is the main sport, for some LOI is the only way to go, but for a majority given the choice, it will be last.
In Dublin the GAA ranks down the list of people's interests. In fact I only know one person who if asked what his favourite sport is would say GAA. The problem is that they all support British teams. I have no doubt that football is the number one sport in practically the whole country. Obviously LOI football isn't

Your point about money may ring through if people didn't spend €100 easily on a night out for themselves. They choose not to spend their money on going to football, but in reality, its not that expensive (and certainly not as expensive as going to Dublin GAA games or Leinster rugby)