Why Ireland are Crap at Soccer

[Marked Man]

Hmmmm, let me think. "Why Ireland hasn't won the World Cup?". A population of a few million, most of whom play the national game, Gaelic football or hurling and where playing soccer by them was banned up to a decade or so ago.

The ban was lifted in 1971, 36 years ago Owlsfan. Not "a decade or so ago."

[youngirish]

Other than Holland, I am struggling to think of a country of comparable size that has achieved anything of note in world or European football.
Holland has 4 times our population so in a footballing sense we can't really be compared to them.

[tetsujin1979]

In Dublin the GAA ranks down the list of people's interests. In fact I only know one person who if asked what his favourite sport is would say GAA. The problem is that they all support British teams. I have no doubt that football is the number one sport in practically the whole country. Obviously LOI football isn't

Your point about money may ring through if people didn't spend €100 easily on a night out for themselves. They choose not to spend their money on going to football, but in reality, its not that expensive (and certainly not as expensive as going to Dublin GAA games or Leinster rugby)
Dublin regularly sell out Croke Park, that's 80,000+ fans. How many of them go to any of the Dublin-based soccer teams? How many of the teams based in Dublin sell out with the same regularity, even with stadiums with vastly reduced capacities compared to Croke Park?

[jebus]

For a country with such a small population we have done reasonably well in world football, so I wouldn't say Ireland are crap at football.

Don't know if anyone made this point previously as I stopped reading after the first post

[paul_oshea]

The GAA is crap, full of ignorant culchies.

[endabob1]

The GAA is crap, full of ignorant culchies.

Beautiful, nothing like a sweeping generalisation to show how superior you really are.

[Stuttgart88]

Have you met Paul? He's an ignorant culchie.

[Torn-Ado]

Beautiful, nothing like a sweeping generalisation to show how superior you really are.

I think he was joking.

Not sure though.

[osarusan]

The GAA is crap, full of ignorant culchies.
I think you need a smilie for the sarcasm .

[paul_oshea]

Torn, It was done in jest, in an ironic twist really. As when the GAA gets mentioned, someone usually comes on and says something along those lines, so I thought I might as well get in there first.


I think you need a smilie for the sarcasm .

Not, if you are not being sarcastic.

Stuts, good to see you know me so well :D

[smellyfeet]

Just reading this post now and Ireland are crap at the moment but we haven't always been crap, only in the last few years we have. It's down to the players and Managment that are picked/selected to produce the goods.

I think we could be alot better if the proper players are picked to start games and if we had a different Manager, any Manager...

[dfx-]

The Ireland team on display, with Doyle and a small few recent exceptions aside, have nothing to do with Irish football. They were trained and make their career in England, and have succeded in spite of the structures here, not because of them.

I'll highlight that bit again to see if you can get my point which is embedded in it. There are no structures in Irish football. The Irish performances and side have nothing to do with Irish football. So contrary to convenient belief, if Ireland are doing well, that doesn't mean Irish football is in good health.

If there's one thing that awful disgrace of a thing that is the GAA proves is the capability of Irish people to devote themselves to a local cause.

If there's one thing that the detestable Leinster Senior Schools Cup proves is that if you have a sport strong locally in schools, you develop a national team that is well respected and rated highly. Denis Hickie and his 30 international tries for Ireland played in that.

Neither of these are present in Irish football and that is why we are crap at football. To have solid foundation to build anything you need determination, willing and a bottom up approach. All missing from Team Ireland.

[backstothewall]

right so im biting too.geography???3 belfast teams 4 dublin ones is hardly a great spread,you could have one from louth(ahem) meath(if the stadium goes up) longford sligo kilkenny waterford wicklow donegal.then you mention finance and include shelbourne and mention grounds too.well not alone are they broke but there off out to morton soon.

The reason for the spread was the million people east of the Bann, and the almost 2 million in Dublin. Longford has a population of only 31,000, Sligo 58,000 Kilkenny 80,000, and the counties bordering Dublin are for good or ill now Dublin's commuter belt. That means good roads to the Dublin teams, who they can watch with their mates from work.

I take the point though about a team in the Boyne Valley. That greater boyne/oriel area has Drogheda United, Dundalk, Newry City and Armagh City quite close to each other. But i only named 10 teams in a proposed 14-16 team league, and with a 10,000 seater stadium, Drogheda would be impossible to turn down. I was actually in united park about ten years ago, to see Drogheda play Ason Villa. I think a guy playing for Villa called Staunton arranged it, his brother was playing for the Drogs. If google earth is recent it hasn't changed much. But Dalian Atkinson kicking the ball completly out of the stadium and down the road really sums up the problems of football in the country. It should be a lot harder to kick the ball out of the stadium completely.

[Dodge]

Dublin regularly sell out Croke Park, that's 80,000+ fans. How many of them go to any of the Dublin-based soccer teams?
Isn't that the point I'm making? I can guarentee you there's more football fans in Dublin that GAA, there's more football players in Dublin than GAA. What are you arguing with?


The GAA is crap, full of ignorant culchies.

I knew we'd wear you down ;)

[tetsujin1979]

Isn't that the point I'm making? I can guarentee you there's more football fans in Dublin that GAA, there's more football players in Dublin than GAA. What are you arguing with?
I'm not sure to be honest, I guess that if the GAA with a smaller fanbase can regualarly sell 80,000 tickets to Dublin fans, why isn't the combined total of attendances at home soccer games even close to that?

PS just using soccer to distinguish between football and gaelic football, I rarely use that term

[Kivlehan]

If an All-Ireland league were to be pursued, it would have to reflect the real clubs with existing support and try to build on it. It wouldn't work with forced regional clubs like the mentioned Connacht FC which Sligo wouldn't support because they have a rivalry with Galway and would reject a Galway based team. Here is a 4 tier idea with the fourth tier really just being regional leagues that could go deeper:

IRISH PREMIER LEAGUE

Linfield FC
Ballymena Utd FC
Glentoran FC
Dungannon Swifts FC
Coleraine FC
Portadown FC
Cliftonville FC
Derry City
Shamrock Rovers
Bohemians
St. Patrick's Athletic
Cork City
Waterford United
Galway United
Sligo Rovers
Drogheda United

Promotion / Relegation: [three up (one via 3-4-5-6 playoff) from First Division, three down]

IRISH FIRST DIVISION

UCD
Longford Town
Bray Wanderers
Cobh Ramblers
Finn Harps
Dundalk
Limerick 37
Shelbourne
Monaghan United
Glenavon FC
Newry City FC
Lisburn Distillery FC
Loughgall FC
Armagh City FC
Larne FC
Institute FC

Promotion / Relegation: [three up (one via 3-4-5-6 playoff) from Second Division, three down]


IRISH SECOND DIVISION


Kildare County
Athlone Town
Wexford Youths
Kilkenny City
ROI TEAM (Castlebar Celtic?)
ROI TEAM (Fingal FC? Letterkenny Rovers?)
ROI TEAM (South East FC?)
ROI TEAM (Clonmel Town?)
ROI TEAM (Kerry League?)
Crusaders FC
Limavady Utd FC
Donegal Celtic FC
Ballymoney Utd FC
Ballyclare Comrades FC
Ards FC
Bangor FC

Promotion / Relegation: [two up from Regional division playoffs, two down]

Below this point it goes regional, four divisions Ulster, Connacht/Ulster (includes all of Connacht parts of Ulster in ROI), Leinster, Munster. Four division winners play playoffs to see who gets the two promotion spots into Division 3.

Used the IFA team rankings from the thread in the Northern Ireland league section here to determine the Northern team splits. Each of the top 3 tiers gets 16 teams, 9 from ROI leagues 7 from Northern Leagues. Derry City being one of the teams in the Premier League would give it an 8/8 split of teams based in ROI and Northern Ireland in the opening year. Where teams fall in subsequent years is based on their performance.

5 Filler ROI teams in Second Division are just ideas based on what was speculated for LoI "A Championship" teams in other threads.

[endabob1]

4 tiers is way too much for a country our size, 2 tiers is probably too much if you want your top tier to compete at a reasonable level in Europe.
I don't think an all-Ireland league is a reality so I would suggest a top tier of 10 (ideally professional) teams where you can have 10 genuinely competitve teams, a bigger (16 team) second level where teams are semi-pro / Amatuer.
Below that the provincial senior leagues which can feed into the second tier where required.

[backstothewall]

I would go for 14-16 with not promotion or relegation ever. But 2 tiers would be plently, with no promotion or relegation for the first couple of years to allow it to bed in.

There reaches a stage with the likes of clonmel town and ballyclare comrades where their lot in life is provincial amateur leages. Tthey will probably be the best sides there, but to maintain even semi-professional football puts a strain on the finances which will damage youth development in the long run. If those sorts of towns develop a player they need the club focusing on getting them to league football. Not holding them back waiting on transfer fees and trying tohold on to them for to long in the hope they can get them a promotion which they will never be able to maintain