NI Boss targets Republics Kane

[Maroon 7]

We have a small enough squad as it is - how would you like it if you suddenly lost even 2 or 3 of your starting XI for Slovakia on Saturday, never mind half your team?

Well I don't think we'd like it which is why most people would have some sympathy with NI on this issue.

However these are Irish citizens through birth we are talking about. The same as someone born in Cork, Dublin or Donegal. They should have the right to choose. Some may opt for ROI but I imagine most would just stick with NI. They should however be given the right to choice and it seems they have.


if FIFA's Rules are being broken, that situation must not be allowed to continue unchecked.

Well we are all football fans but some things are more important than football and an individual's right to assert his nationality through his birthright and for there to be no impedements in place to representing his country is certainly one of those things.

[ifk101]

Greendeise,
The reason the numbers have been so low is because it was only comparatively recently, when Kerr took over, that the FAI started proactively to recruit/accept NI-born players, in contravention of the "Gentlemens' Agreement" which had existed previously over decades.
And since most of the obvious players were already tied to NI by having played for our senior team, then they had to concentrate on our youngsters.
And as we know, only a minority of promising youngsters ever progress all the way to senior status, after a process that takes several years.

That said, if we only lost one Darron Gibson every other year, that would amount to four senior players over the course of two Qualifying tournaments, or six over the course of the average player's international career. We have a small enough squad as it is - how would you like it if you suddenly lost even 2 or 3 of your starting XI for Slovakia on Saturday, never mind half your team?

Moreover, the ROI, with generally a bigger/stronger squad than us, will only be interested in the best of our youngsters, leaving us with those who fear they might not be good enough to represent the ROI. What happens if the next player recruited after Gibson is the next David Healy?

On top of which, it is quite clear that the FAI are only targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background. Does anyone other than a bigot really want to see a situation where the two Irish sides are effectively segregated between the "Prod team" (IFA) and the "Catholic team" (FAI)? I know that I certainly don't.

Besides, there is a principle at stake, so it shouldn't matter whether we are talking one player or 100 players; if FIFA's Rules are being broken, that situation must not be allowed to continue unchecked.

I understand your point of view EG but if they are eligible and willing to play for the Republic it really isn't of any concern for us what happens to the NI national team. I genuinely wish the NI team well but it's the Republic I want to see winning matches and if that means at the expense of NI so be it.

[co. down green]

Greendeise,On top of which, it is quite clear that the FAI are only targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background. Does anyone other than a bigot really want to see a situation where the two Irish sides are effectively segregated between the "Prod team" (IFA) and the "Catholic team" (FAI)? I know that I certainly don't..

Tony Kane wrote a letter to the FAI asking to play for Ireland.(before defecting)

Darron Gibson was never approached by the FAI, he approached them as did Marc Wilson,Ruairi Harkin, Kevin Deery etc..

I presume those choosing to represent Ireland from a Nationalist background do so because they have grown up supporting Ireland, and see it as being a very natural ambition to represent your country.

Nothing startling in that !

I don't know what you are going on about all this 'Catholic team' rubbish, race, colour or creed has never been an issue for our team.

[kingdomkerry]

If players from the south were eligible to play for the north and wanted to play for NI and were good enough. Would the IFA turn them down????

[Qwerty]

Lads, summer's over and the season has started, time to bin this pointless thread.

[greendeiseboy]

[QUOTE=EalingGreen;765365]Greendeise,

On top of which, it is quite clear that the FAI are only targeting youngsters from a Catholic/Nationalist background. Does anyone other than a bigot really want to see a situation where the two Irish sides are effectively segregated between the "Prod team" (IFA) and the "Catholic team" (FAI)? I know that I certainly don't.


I dont think the FAI are setting out to have a catholic/nationalist only team but imo it is fair to say that in general if they were targetting northern ireland players then given the "situation" there it would be those from a nationalist background that they would chase.

I dont think religion or race ever came into selection for us, most of us down here would not know or question the religion of people in any walk of life (there's always exceptions tho), but down here religion is not an issue. We've had plenty of C of I and C of E playing for us but who they are i couldn't tell because its not an issue.

[as_i_say]

Agree its nothing to do with religion-its whether you think you are Irish. Gibson does (is) so why would he want to play for the GSTQ brigade?

[EalingGreen]

Well we are all football fans but some things are more important than football and an individual's right to assert his nationality through his birthright and for there to be no impedements in place to representing his country is certainly one of those things.

I agree that some (most, actually) things are more important than football, including questions of nationality, birthright etc. But I prefer to apply that conclusion differently to you. In other words, football is less important than politics.

That is, Gibson's playing football for NI need not compromise his "Irishness" any more than that of e.g. Chris Baird is compromised. (Or the "Britishness" of Andrew Trimble is compromised by his playing rugby for Ireland at the weekend, for that matter). Which is why players like Baird are perfectly welcome to represent NI, whilst still being 100% Irish, with attendant Irish Passport etc.

And if you take your conclusion to its logical limit, you are effectively saying that those individuals who feel strongly about politics etc, should be allowed a choice as to which country they represent at football, whereas those who don't actually care shouldn't really get the same choice. International football isn't actually about choice, or aspirations.

Rather, it's about representing the "country" (as defined by FIFA) in which you were born (or your parents, grandparents). And in the absence of meeting those criteria, even if you can find a country which wants you to represent it, FIFA requires that if you must prove the strength of your eligibility (affiliation) by actually going to live there for a minimum period.

I suppose what I am saying in the end is that there are two teams in Ireland, with mine (NI) being every bit as legitimate, and legitimately "Irish", as yours (ROI). Therefore, if we cannot choose players born in your part of the island (jurisdiction), why should you be allowed to choose players born in ours?

After all, for all this appeal to the "right of choice", no-one ever gave any of us the right to choose where we were born. But if Mr. & Mrs. Gibson were so concerned by this, they always had the option of seeing that young Darron was born in the Republic.

After all, in another sporting context, generations of Yorkshire cricketing fans made the effort*...



* - Until the criteria were changed, so that they didn't need to ;)

[EalingGreen]

I understand your point of view EG but if they are eligible and willing to play for the Republic it really isn't of any concern for us what happens to the NI national team. I genuinely wish the NI team well but it's the Republic I want to see winning matches and if that means at the expense of NI so be it.

Perfectly fair, ifk, and I wouldn't argue with any of it. Especially the part "but if they are eligible"! :cool:

[EalingGreen]

I don't know what you are going on about all this 'Catholic team' rubbish, race, colour or creed has never been an issue for our team.

I agree entirely that the ROI team does not have an issue with race, colour or creed etc, but that was not what I actually posted.

Rather, with questions of political affiliation and (nominal) religion pretty much inseparable in NI, as you will well know, the inevitable consequence of the FAI only approaching/being approached by youngsters from one community in NI and not the other, will mean that the ROI will de facto become the "Nationalist/Catholic team" in Ireland and NI will become the de facto "Unionist/Protestant" team in Ireland.

And I for one would absolutely hate it if that were so, not least since throughout the dark decades from which we have just emerged, football was one of the few activities in NI which managed to maintain a good degree of inter-communal interaction, no matter how strained it was at times. :(

[kingdomkerry]

Players in the north can play for either north or south. Get over it and accept it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EalingGreen]

If players from the south were eligible to play for the north and wanted to play for NI and were good enough. Would the IFA turn them down????

Players from "the south" [sic] are not eligible to play for "the north" [sic], so, yes, the IFA would turn them down.

Have you taken up wumming again?

[EalingGreen]

Agree its nothing to do with religion-its whether you think you are Irish. Gibson does (is) so why would he want to play for the GSTQ brigade?

I must say, I never had you down for a Descartesian - "Je pense, donc je suis" :eek:

(Besides, you really wouldn't want to be what I think you are...;))

[Maroon 7]

Therefore, if we cannot choose players born in your part of the island (jurisdiction), why should you be allowed to choose players born in ours?



Because they are Irish citizens through birth so should have the right to choose which team they wish to represent just like any other Irish citizen has the right to. I can't spell it out any clearer. You are being wilfully evasive on this. Trying to force people to be what they aren't is what had NI in a state of turmoil for decades.



After all, for all this appeal to the "right of choice", no-one ever gave any of us the right to choose where we were born. But if Mr. & Mrs. Gibson were so concerned by this, they always had the option of seeing that young Darron was born in the Republic.



Well I'll just take this as an attempt at humour.

[EalingGreen]

Because they are Irish citizens through birth so should have the right to choose which team they wish to represent just like any other Irish citizen has the right to. I can't spell it out any clearer. You are being wilfully evasive on this. Trying to force people to be what they aren't is what had NI in a state of turmoil for decades.



Well I'll just take this as an attempt at humour.

And my point, which seems to be evading you, is that playing football for NI does not make a (Unionist) player any more "British", or a (Nationalist) player - like Gibson - any less "Irish". It merely makes them an NI footballer.

As for my last point, it wasn't really "humourous" but then again, it wasn't really serious, either, as my allusion to Yorkshire cricket was intended to show.

[kingdomkerry]

Players from "the south" [sic] are not eligible to play for "the north" [sic], so, yes, the IFA would turn them down.

Have you taken up wumming again?

Very selective again. There was an IF in that question but its tipical of your ignorance, that rather than answer a question honestly you make a pathetic attempt at humor.

You, the IFA, the are we a country biggots, the GSDQ singing, union jack waving hypocrits have'nt a leg to stand on trying to snatch Gibson off us and prevent Irish citizens playing with Ireland in the future.

Now I think I speak for a lot of us here when I say get lost if your only going to keep going round in circles:mad:

[theworm2345]

Didn't the Blackhawks (Hockey) just sign a guy named Tony Kane a few months ago?

[SkStu]

Can somebody please close this muck, it's so boring.

agreed. And close the Gibson one while you're at it.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Very selective again. There was an IF in that question but its tipical of your ignorance, that rather than answer a question honestly you make a pathetic attempt at humor.

You, the IFA, the are we a country biggots, the GSDQ singing, union jack waving hypocrits have'nt a leg to stand on trying to snatch Gibson off us and prevent Irish citizens playing with Ireland in the future.

Now I think I speak for a lot of us here when I say get lost if your only going to keep going round in circles:mad:


For the record -You don't speak for me and nor, I strongly suspect, do you speak for "a lot of us here". There's an "Ignore" function on your options if someones posts irritate you.

[kingdomkerry]

For the record -You don't speak for me and nor, I strongly suspect, do you speak for "a lot of us here". There's an "Ignore" function on your options if someones posts irritate you.

I never said I spoke for you Lionel Ritchie, I said i think i speak for alot of people on this thread who feel that the thread is going around in cirlcles. If you bothered looking at the other comments of other people asking for an end to this thread you might not of contradicted my fair point!!

[Lionel Ritchie]

I never said I spoke for you Lionel Ritchie, I said i think i speak for alot of people on this thread who feel that the thread is going around in cirlcles. If you bothered looking at the other comments of other people asking for an end to this thread you might not of contradicted my fair point!!


If the thread's going in circles then the thread's going in circles. I've looked at the other comments and like yourself if they feel the thread has no more interest or concern to them then they should disregard it. No need to kill off threads though until they decend into the actionable and ridiculous.

[sylvo]

Oh dear.:rolleyes:

No oh dear about it.

[Naitch]

Good to hear the "Norn Iron" fans chanting No Surrender during God Save The Queen, so much for the 'Football For All' thing you guys have. How you cant understand why some nationalists refuse to play for you il never know.

[kingdomkerry]

Not to mention the sea of union jacks all over the stadium in Riga. Football for all. More like football for unionists only!!!!!!

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

I never said I spoke for you Lionel Ritchie, I said i think i speak for alot of people on this thread who feel that the thread is going around in cirlcles. If you bothered looking at the other comments of other people asking for an end to this thread you might not of contradicted my fair point!!


Yea, fair play to ya Kingdom. You've echoed my sentiments and by the look of this thread, you do speak for a lot of people on here who have enough of being antagonised. Its time these threads were closed and the Ealing Greens of this world go back to the Are We A Country forum.

Its a depressing weekend for Ireland, but I'm just glad I'm not a fan of the North. Watching the game on tv yesterday evening once again reminded me of the element that follows that lot.

[Maroon 7]

Good to hear the "Norn Iron" fans chanting No Surrender during God Save The Queen, so much for the 'Football For All' thing you guys have. How you cant understand why some nationalists refuse to play for you il never know.

Heard them alright. Sad to see that mindset is still there really.

And if they're giving it NS at the game you can be sure that there is worse stuff being sung in the pubs.

A pity for all the genuine NI fans trying to enact some change.

[craig7042]

Couldnt believe Iceland drew with Spain. Come on Northern Ireland. Hope they qualify. They deserve it.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Heard them alright. Sad to see that mindset is still there really.

And if they're giving it NS at the game you can be sure that there is worse stuff being sung in the pubs.
A pity for all the genuine NI fans trying to enact some change.

...yeah maybe -a bit like some of ours singing 'Stand Up If You Hate The Brits' to bemused German onlookers a year ago.

But it's cute when we do it I suppose.:rolleyes:


Yea, fair play to ya Kingdom. You've echoed my sentiments and by the look of this thread, you do speak for a lot of people on here who have enough of being antagonised. Its time these threads were closed and the Ealing Greens of this world go back to the Are We A Country forum. ...then why are you here JPM? Why are you coming on here to get antagonised? If you want to debate and discuss then do so and if you don't then shuffle along to something that doesn't stimulate your interest in having threads closed. FFS like!:rolleyes:

[youngirish]

...yeah maybe -a bit like some of ours singing 'Stand Up If You Hate The Brits' to bemused German onlookers a year ago.

Some of your statements on these threads really do make it look to everyone that that you just don't really have a clue what you're talking about (the Gary Kelly better than Finnan statement was the nail in the coffin for me personally). How you can compare a handful of idiots trying to be funny slagging 'Brits' (read English btw) to a large number of NI fans roaring No Surrender shows a severe lack of an ability to understand the differences in the current and historical situations both North and South of the border.

You are on the wrong forum. Try www.ourweecounry.iphost.

[kingdomkerry]

...yeah maybe -a bit like some of ours singing 'Stand Up If You Hate The Brits' to bemused German onlookers a year ago.

But it's cute when we do it I suppose.:rolleyes:

...then why are you here JPM? Why are you coming on here to get antagonised? If you want to debate and discuss then do so and if you don't then shuffle along to something that doesn't stimulate your interest in having threads closed. FFS like!:rolleyes:


Has'nt a clue is right!!

[Lionel Ritchie]

Some of your statements on these threads really do make it look to everyone that that you just don't really have a clue what you're talking about (the Gary Kelly better than Finnan statement was the nail in the coffin for me personally). Quote me on it or finish your SunnyD and cheesy strips and get back to class.


How you can compare a handful of idiots trying to be funny slagging 'Brits' (read English btw) to a large number of NI fans roaring No Surrender shows a severe lack of an ability to understand the differences in the current and historical situations both North and South of the border.
Translation: one law for us and a stricter one for them.:rolleyes:

[youngirish]

Quote me on it or finish your SunnyD and cheesy strips and get back to class.
OK sir. I wrote this.


I agree. The usual nostalgic, rose tinted, muck. Of course Tony Cascerino and David Connolly are a better Partnership than Doyle and Keane. Gary Kelly is better than Finnan.

To which you replied.

Usual mix of poorly informed snipes and rank garbage.

There's nothing at all to choose between Kells and Stevie Finnan.

Case closed your honour. Take him away.

Are you on gear? This was only last week?

Translation: one law for us and a stricter one for them.:rolleyes:

Not really. If you can't see the difference then you don't understand both the situations enough to entitle you to comment.

In a basic sense Northern Ireland is composed of a Unionist majority and a large Nationalist minority. Four Centuries of conflict between the two have seen hundreds of thousands of casualties on both sides of the divide. The most recent period of conflict known as the Troubles lasted from 1969 to 1998 and was responsible for the death of well over 3 thousand people with tens of thousands of injured. Understandly this is still quite fresh in people's mind but since 1998 there has been hope that both sides can work together to overcome their considerable differences. Shouting 'No Surrender' at the national teams football match by a large group of supporters is a throwback to the age old troubled period.


The Republic of Ireland doesn't to any considerable degree have the same political divisions within it's population. The vast majority of the population are united in their desire to maintain the independent Ireland in which they live. We were in a large part the victim of the imperialistic ambitions of our larger neighbour to the east for many centuries until we eventually achieved independence almost a century ago. I've never met a ROI citizen (bar possibly yourself) that could claim in any sense this occupation was an agreeable period in our history and the discrmination, poverty and divison that was part and parcel of it. So if a few idiots want to shout that they hate the Brits I don't see it in exactly the same light to be honest. The Brits are not too bothered as far as I can see anyway and in a historical sense they should at least understand why there is some hatred for them still left on our shores (most of them still believe the British Empire was a liberating entity that brought civilization with it's associated law and technological progress to those more unfortunate areas of the globe that needed it's shining light).

Only someones as ill informed as yourself could compare the two situations in an equal light.

[Lionel Ritchie]

The only person who I can see who said Kelly is better than Finnan in all that is actually yourself ...though you may have been attempting irony I can't be sure.

I said there's nothing to choose between them and I stand over that.

Thanks for the subsequent local history lesson. I'll only give it a C2 but still the research will surely stand to you by the time you get to transition year.

[youngirish]

The only person who I can see who said Kelly is better than Finnan in all that is actually yourself ...though you may have been attempting irony I can't be sure.

I said there's nothing to choose between them and I stand over that.

Thanks for the subsequent local history lesson. I'll only give it a C2 but still the research will surely stand to you by the time you get to transition year.

If you read any of my post to which you replied it was very obvious it was ironic. I'd say I'm actually older than yourself but if not definitely much, much better informed.

[eelmonster]

There was no Union four hundred years ago, nor was there an Irish nation. D3.

[youngirish]

There was no Union four hundred years ago, nor was there an Irish nation. D3.

Oh ffs. The terms were different but the sentiments were the same. Get over yourself.

[liaml]

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie


There's nothing at all to choose between Kells and Stevie Finnan.


That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this site.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie


That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this site.

...well ...go on.

[EalingGreen]

It's not in the GB Edition of the Sunday Times, nor on their Website, but a member of OWC has today posted the following on that site:

UEFA ASK FAI TO SHUN THEIR FRIENDS IN THE NORTH

Article in today’s Sunday Times states that UEFA asked FAI to omit players until the dispute was sorted out. Claims that this was why Tony Kane was left out of U21s by Don Givens and subsequently opted for NI.

The article goes on "A spokesman for FIFA said on Friday:

"The FIFA legal committee reviewed the question of eligibility of players from the Republic of Ireland to play for Northern Ireland and vice versa during its meeting in mid-August. Following that meeting FIFA requested the FAI and IFA to provide their position on the matter and is currently in consultations with both member associations. At this stage we cannot speculate when a final decision will be taken".

Can anyone scan/post the full article?

Anyhow, whatever FIFA's final determination, this is further evidence for my contention that the eligibility of NI-born players automatically to represent the FAI is not an "open and shut case".

However, it may also suggest that Darron Gibson is OK either way, since the FAI went ahead and selected him anyhow. Might this be because he was previously selected by the FAI at under-age level before the "Brazilian/Qatari" Annex was implemented?

[livehead1]

I think they see what a complex question it is. They may well come to the conclusion that any future players will not be eligible but anyone already playing for either is fine to continue to do so.