Dublin Metro line to cost 5 Billion [Archive] - Page 2

pete

17/08/2007, 9:13 PM

Does anyone find a lot of bus lanes in more central locations redundant due to cars parked on the kerb and larger vehicles from the main lane occupying part of the bus lane? The bus lane in Rathmines is fairly useless from 8-9 on a weekday morning for example.

There so many things wrong with Dublin Transport I could not even list in one post. Its amazing paid professionals cannot detect it.

* What is the point of bus lanes if there is a gap of say 100 yards when down to 1 lane of regular traffic?
* Why have 24/7 bus lanes?
* Why have Saturday bus lanes in places with no traffic?
* Why are there so many bus stops? Some less than 100 yards away from each other.

Poor Student

17/08/2007, 9:34 PM

There was a bus lane somewhere, the Malahide Rd. I think, that hadn't had a bus route operating on it in years and traffic was needlessly jammed into one lane!

MeathDrog

17/08/2007, 10:31 PM

Enfield is along the coast?? :confused:
Apart from Enfield,but that's nearly in Kildare so not much good to me

Ceirtlis

17/08/2007, 11:20 PM

By right, every county in the country should have a rail service. The fact that some Ulster counties don't even have a service in this day and age is a national disgrace. The fact that in order for you to travel from Limerick to Galway by train, you have to change at Kildare is an outrage, as is the fact you can't go direct from Maynooth to Celbridge, even though it's in the same fn' county. :mad:

There should be a line from Cork to Derry connecting with Limerick-Galway- Sligo-Donegal, and from Derry to Dublin via Monaghan. Whether the demand is there or not is not the issue, if you can run a bus service into every nook and cranny in the country, you should build a railway line too. There should also be night trains, and not the joke of a situation where Heuston and Connolly are practically deserted after 8pm. Wouldn't happen anywhere else. :rolleyes::mad:

There is no point providing a service if their is damn all demand for it and i cant see much demand for a train service between Galway and Cork because Citylink buses have started a service between Gy and ck and there are very little people using it.
In any case there are plans to reopen some or all of the Western Rail Corridor, they were announced a year or two ago. It wont be an overnight job either as some of them lines are in a right state.

mypost

18/08/2007, 12:22 AM

There is no point providing a service if their is damn all demand for it and i cant see much demand for a train service between Galway and Cork because Citylink buses have started a service between Gy and ck and there are very little people using it.

CIE is the state transport system, and can absorb loss making routes, by road and rail. Ffs, who goes by train to Rosslare Europort? Manulla Junction? Roscommon? Ballybrophy? :confused: Yet they still have a daily service from Dublin. A Galway-Cork route would have demand, enough to half fill a Commuter train at least, as it's two major cities you're talking about.

I like the overnight Derry-Dublin bus service too, it's the way to go, but unfortunately it's the exception, rather than the norm which it should be.

Schumi

18/08/2007, 5:17 PM

who goes by train to... Manulla Junction?Everyone who's going to Ballina, a reasonable number of people any time I was on it.

onceahoop

18/08/2007, 9:05 PM

There was a bus lane somewhere, the Malahide Rd. I think, that hadn't had a bus route operating on it in years and traffic was needlessly jammed into one lane!

That was the M50 extension down to the Malahide Road. The only bus using it was the Dart feeder from the Airport which ceased to operate a few years ago but the Bus lane didn't. Add that to the idiotically slow speed limit and it's a joke to drive on. Fingal County Council also have 24/7 bus lanes alomg the Swords Road. A joke.

Macy

20/08/2007, 9:25 AM

I don't really agree with the arguement, but I don't think that bus lane on the M32 was ever a driving lane. It was a hard shoulder before it was a bus lane afaik. Still no reason it couldn't be opened up.

I'm not sure what arguement you're trying to put up really mypost. The Rosslare route is packed everyday, as it's the commuter line for Arklow, Wicklow, Rathdrum etc. It's nicknamed the calcutta express in Bray and Greystones it's that packed by the time it gets there!

Saint MacDara there's no need for that bus lane to be empty, and it doesn't need private companies. It just needs the Government to allow Dublin Bus to buy more feckin buses. It all comes down to them being so obssessed with rail options that to justify them they run down the alternatives.

mypost

20/08/2007, 11:37 AM

I'm not sure what arguement you're trying to put up really mypost. The Rosslare route is packed everyday, as it's the commuter line for Arklow, Wicklow, Rathdrum etc.

I'm talking about the specific stop, not the route.

monutdfc

20/08/2007, 12:23 PM

That was the M50 extension down to the Malahide Road. The only bus using it was the Dart feeder from the Airport which ceased to operate a few years ago but the Bus lane didn't. Add that to the idiotically slow speed limit and it's a joke to drive on.

It would make absolutely no difference if that bus lane was opened up - the pinches on that road are at either end, so opening the bus lane and/or increasing the speed limit would just get you to the back of a traffic jam sooner

Macy

20/08/2007, 2:59 PM

It would make absolutely no difference if that bus lane was opened up - the pinches on that road are at either end, so opening the bus lane and/or increasing the speed limit would just get you to the back of a traffic jam sooner
At the M50 end, is it not 2 lanes anyway - bus lane ends and both lanes are all traffic? Other end it would get you around the roundabouts and passed that rat run turn off that is always backed up at least iirc?

monutdfc

20/08/2007, 3:08 PM

At the M50 end, is it not 2 lanes anyway - bus lane ends and both lanes are all traffic?
Same difference - opening the bus lane would just get you to the 2-lane queue quicker. "Pinch" was the incorrect word to use though...I meant 'hold-up'

Other end it would get you around the roundabouts and passed that rat run turn off that is always backed up at least iirc?
You could be right - I haven't been there for about a year. My recollection is that the road splits into 3 at the other end - one left turn and two onto the roundabout - so again opening the bus lane wouldn't make a huge difference.

galwayhoop

20/08/2007, 3:29 PM

There is no point providing a service if their is damn all demand for it and i cant see much demand for a train service between Galway and Cork because Citylink buses have started a service between Gy and ck and there are very little people using it.
In any case there are plans to reopen some or all of the Western Rail Corridor, they were announced a year or two ago. It wont be an overnight job either as some of them lines are in a right state.

you are missing the whole point here. by linking galway and cork you also would link in limerick, ennis and perhaps even shannon airport. imagine going to shannon airport by train. or reducing commuters from Gort to Galway by giving them a train service. Or those who commute from Ennis to Limerick. Or commuters to Cork City. an Oranmore stop could also provide a link between Galway airport (obviously shuttle bus for the 2 or 3 miles from Oranmore to Carnmore) and Shannon and perhaps a link could be provided from Cork airport to Cork city.

CIE should be offering this service full stop. there are very few viable alternatives to getting to and from work in this country than by car. this has to change. a rail corridore from Cork to Galway would be beneficial and a start in the right direction.

the citylink story is not a good one as me like many others do not like busses as they are slower than travelling by car, stop too often for my liking, are restrictive and very uncomfortable. if there is any other option than bus i take it.

I for one hate sitting in traffic but have to every morning and evening as there is no other way for me to get to work. I sit in my car in traffic for 1 hour every morning and then pay to park my car for the day (i don't move it all day) before climbing into it again to sit in traffic for another hour on the way home. were i to get a bus i would be the same amount of time but less comfortable and have to walk for about 10 mins to get friom the bus stop to work and again from the bus stop to my house. if there was a train the journey would take 5 or 10 minutes. 10 minute walk to work from train station and a 5 minute drive from the station to my house on the way home!!!

BRING FORTH THE TRAINS..............

pete

20/08/2007, 4:56 PM

The differences in public transport provided in Dublin North & Dublin South are fairly clear. If you live near the sea on the south side you have a lot of options relative to other areas.

Why is only new areas of Dublin are being provided with shiny new transport options? i.e. they prefer to extend the Luas out to the countryside that provide transport to in more established suburbs where better density... Maybe no Developers willing to pay for in older areas...

Bald Student

20/08/2007, 5:05 PM

Maybe no Developers willing to pay for in older areas...Or it's easier to run a train line through a new development than add one to an existing one.

onceahoop

23/08/2007, 8:35 PM

Same difference - opening the bus lane would just get you to the 2-lane queue quicker. "Pinch" was the incorrect word to use though...I meant 'hold-up'

You could be right - I haven't been there for about a year. My recollection is that the road splits into 3 at the other end - one left turn and two onto the roundabout - so again opening the bus lane wouldn't make a huge difference.

It's 2 lanes now at the Clonshaugh roundabout I think(before the M50 ROUNDABOUT).

Ceirtlis

24/08/2007, 2:39 PM

you are missing the whole point here. by linking galway and cork you also would link in limerick, ennis and perhaps even shannon airport. imagine going to shannon airport by train. or reducing commuters from Gort to Galway by giving them a train service. Or those who commute from Ennis to Limerick. Or commuters to Cork City. an Oranmore stop could also provide a link between Galway airport (obviously shuttle bus for the 2 or 3 miles from Oranmore to Carnmore) and Shannon and perhaps a link could be provided from Cork airport to Cork city

I agree it would be good to have a rail link to Shannon, there are no tracks there at present i dont think so it would be a big enough project but it could be done i suppose. Ennis is already linked to Limerick by train. I could see alot of people just driving or getting a taxi out to Galway airport though. It is only about 7 or 8 miles from town and having to change transport at Oranmore would just make it a more complicated journey than it has to be and there are very few flights going through there because of the length of the runway.

the citylink story is not a good one as me like many others do not like busses as they are slower than travelling by car, stop too often for my liking, are restrictive and very uncomfortable. if there is any other option than bus i take it.

The novelty of the choo choo could wear off quickly if you had to get it every morning;).

I for one hate sitting in traffic but have to every morning and evening as there is no other way for me to get to work. I sit in my car in traffic for 1 hour every morning and then pay to park my car for the day (i don't move it all day) before climbing into it again to sit in traffic for another hour on the way home. were i to get a bus i would be the same amount of time but less comfortable and have to walk for about 10 mins to get friom the bus stop to work and again from the bus stop to my house. if there was a train the journey would take 5 or 10 minutes. 10 minute walk to work from train station and a 5 minute drive from the station to my house on the way home!!!

I can still see alot people thinking ,"if it is taking me as long and is costing me as much to get to work why bother getting the train," a good percentage of people are still going to have to get in the car and drive to the train station anyways and get parking there

BRING FORTH THE TRAINS..............

It doesnt matter what i think anyways because like i said they are going reopening the thing anyways, http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/western_rail_corridor.asp

mypost

25/08/2007, 8:49 AM

The novelty of the choo choo could wear off quickly if you had to get it every morning;).

If you provide a clean, comfortable, fast, modern, efficient service, it won't. You only have to look at the success of the Luas in Dublin as a prime example of that. But if you don't provide facilities, the current situation will remain as it is.

galwayhoop

27/08/2007, 10:22 AM

I can still see alot people thinking ,"if it is taking me as long and is costing me as much to get to work why bother getting the train," a good percentage of people are still going to have to get in the car and drive to the train station anyways and get parking there

well you didn't read my post then.

Car: 2 hours per day
Bus: 2 hours plus 20 mins walking time
Train: 20 - 25 mins total.

it probably would cost pretty much the same but by gaining an hour and a half each day would nearly equate to an extra working day per week!!

i disagree with you totally about the whole 'novelty' factor. having lived abroad i took public transport to and from work daily as it was cost effective and convienent not to mention quicker. the fact there are no viable alternatives to driving to work for most in this country is ridiculous in this day and age!

jebus

27/08/2007, 10:47 AM

Since I'm practically living in three cities at the moment (Dublin, Cork, Limerick) I think I can add a bit in here, as I generally think public transport in this country is the pits, outside of Dublin in particular. I mean most towns outisde of the other main cities have 2-3 buses going back and forth each day, and usually if you are in one of those towns, you can't get to the city, or back to the town after 6pm, sometimes as early as 4pm, which is disgraceful. But here's the problems I've found with Irish Rail, and Bus Eireann

The main problem with Irish Rail at the moment is the cost. For example, I recently was looking into the price of flying from Cork to Dublin, rather than go by train, as IrishRail charge roughly 70euro for the trip, I then found I could fly the same route, on the same days I wanted for 66euro (but sadly I'm a left wing hippie scumbag and can't because of my carbon footprint). I actually enjoy the trip with IrishRail, as I think their modern trains are pretty comfortable, the staff are friendly, adn whilst the price of their food is a rip off I wouldn't complain too much about it, as the price of food when travelling to anywhere, by whatever means, is generally a rip off.

As for Bus Eireann, well having had to travel on them countless times before I have just given up using the bus as an intercity means of transport. They are terrible uncomfortable, in particular any of the less modern buses, the staff are, in general, ****ing obnoxious idiots, the price isn't too good either, and I have also noticed that Bus Eireann only ever build bus shelters on their routes for the buses that are travelling to Dublin, and never coming from Dublin, which ****es me off greatly. In conclusion, if the Irish people ever decide to riot, for whatever reason, my first fire bomb will be going straight in Bus Eireann's HQ window.

pete

27/08/2007, 12:23 PM

Its been a long time since i used the train between Dublin-Cork. Main reasons for this in no particular order:
* It takes 3 hours which is too slow. Car will be quicker as long as not peak time plus gets me door-to-door. More Motorways means car will be getting quicker.
* Schedule - No trains after 8pm, Early morning times not good. Plane has better schedule.
* Cost. Car or Plane is cheaper.
* Unreliable. I have not used the new trains but I have the impression that Train may breakdown & take twice as long for journey.

IMO most people will chose to drive instead of the train as they just too slow. IrishRail went to the trouble of getting new trains but why not get faster trains & also electric as diesel is out dated.

The major cities should have train service while the rest will just have to use buses.

jebus

27/08/2007, 12:50 PM

* Unreliable. I have not used the new trains but I have the impression that Train may breakdown & take twice as long for journey.

To be honest, bar last Friday, I haven't had much problem with train schedules since the new trains came into operation, and even last Friday we were delayed for three hours because someone had jumped in front of the train and the gardai and other emergency services had to clear us to continue before we could

Student Mullet

27/08/2007, 3:35 PM

IrishRail went to the trouble of getting new trains but why not get faster trains & also electric as diesel is out dated.The trains aren't the problem. They're laying new tracks between Dublin and Kildare to separate commuters from inter city trains and there's a speed restriction during the works.

pete

27/08/2007, 4:17 PM

The trains aren't the problem. They're laying new tracks between Dublin and Kildare to separate commuters from inter city trains and there's a speed restriction during the works.

I believe they would need to upgrade the entire track to increase speeds. BTW By fast I mean 100mph+ so a fast train does not get overtaken by a car.

mypost

27/08/2007, 4:45 PM

Its been a long time since i used the train between Dublin-Cork. Main reasons for this in no particular order:
* It takes 3 hours which is too slow. Car will be quicker as long as not peak time plus gets me door-to-door. More Motorways means car will be getting quicker.
* Schedule - No trains after 8pm, Early morning times not good. Plane has better schedule.
* Unreliable. I have not used the new trains but I have the impression that Train may breakdown & take twice as long for journey.

When we go to play Cork, the bus has to leave base 6 hours before ko, to ensure we make it on time.

The last train from Cork-Dublin is at 8.30pm, last from Heuston is at 9pm

The new Dublin-Cork trains are state of the art, comfortable, modern, and don't break down. What you expect in a wealthy country.

galwayhoop

28/08/2007, 10:08 AM

[LIST]What you expect in a wealthy country.

ammmm .... clean water! ;)

jebus

28/08/2007, 4:18 PM

I believe they would need to upgrade the entire track to increase speeds. BTW By fast I mean 100mph+ so a fast train does not get overtaken by a car.

On that point, aren't the tracks in Ireland completely the wrong shape to ever bring in anything close to France's 'bullet trains'? France's tracks are laid similar to the Manhatten grid, and so can get up to 100mph as it is practically always along a straight track. From being on a train I presume that Irelands tracks are....bendy....i suppose is the only word I can think of

John83

28/08/2007, 4:20 PM

On that point, aren't the tracks in Ireland completely the wrong shape to ever bring in anything close to France's 'bullet trains'? France's tracks are laid similar to the Manhatten grid, and so can get up to 100mph as it is practically always along a straight track. From being on a train I presume that Irelands tracks are....bendy....i suppose is the only word I can think of
Yeah, pretty much. Could be fixed in some areas, but there are more pressing issues with the rail network.

galwayhoop

30/08/2007, 9:48 AM

On that point, aren't the tracks in Ireland completely the wrong shape to ever bring in anything close to France's 'bullet trains'?

of course the problem is that the culture of the irish people is more geared toward getting as much as possible on an individual basis. cpo's are a massive expense on the country. there is no 'greater good' feeling in our country. due to this we will always have to use the existing network and train routes. though i'm sure if the existing train routes - those in use and those no longer in use - were fully utilised then we wouldn't need the 'bullet trains'.

although perhaps someone in iarnrod eireann could have had a chat with someone in the NRA when land was being acquired for the new motorway/dual carraigeways and set aside the few extra feet needed for train lines beside the roads. would have cost fcuk all at that stage (on top of what was paid for the roads) but would require a whole new set of cpo's now.

another example of the lack of forward thinking in our state bodies methinks

pete

30/08/2007, 10:48 AM

although perhaps someone in iarnrod eireann could have had a chat with someone in the NRA when land was being acquired for the new motorway/dual carraigeways and set aside the few extra feet needed for train lines beside the roads. would have cost fcuk all at that stage (on top of what was paid for the roads) but would require a whole new set of cpo's now.

A practice that appears to be fairly common in Developed countries. I would however require longer overpass bridges on Motorways. I think however the NRA like to do things their own way even if the rest of the world does it differently.

galwayhoop

04/09/2007, 11:40 AM

A practice that appears to be fairly common in Developed countries. I would however require longer overpass bridges on Motorways. I think however the NRA like to do things their own way even if the rest of the world does it differently.

yes but in the main both could run side by side. minor problems like junctions and overpasses and the extra expense of them would be miniscule compared to a whole raft of new CPO's to put in a proper train service.

I remember a few years ago when the gas lines were going in, that the high speed broadband decided they would piggy back the project. however as it wasn't mentioned at the start of the CPO process they were told it was not allowed - cue a whole new raft of CPO's for the broadband!!!

in such a small country it is absolutely horrendous how state and semi state bodies cannot work together on national projects!! unfortunately it will always be this way as those in middle management need to justify their positions. the sooner we strip these tunnel visioned nimkenpoops from our public service the better.

ideally a single body would CPO various lands for state use and allow all services, roads, trains, pipes and wires to use the same lands, yes you would need to probably obtain more lands initally but you would do it once instead of 5 times for the same routes! it is so simple in theory but with morons in each and every county/city council it will never happen.

pete

25/10/2007, 1:51 PM

There was another good article on this in I think last Saturdays Irish Times.

There was a quote from Bertie in i think 2005 (not sure they year) where he said Metro too expensive as would cost 4.5 billion but last year the RPA started this project again with costs starting at the 5 billion...

IMO the only reason this progressing was due to 2007 election & the RPA officials trying to keeping jobs for themselves as they don't have anything to do if no Metro/Luas developments...

Student Mullet

25/10/2007, 3:17 PM

How much of the 5 billion is construction costs?

mypost

25/10/2007, 4:17 PM

Came into Connolly yesterday afternoon, and saw the "train", or rather orange/black rust bucket sitting on the platform, awaiting the delayed :rolleyes: service to Sligo. With the filthy windows, horrible looking seats, and panel scratches on the outside, the only place it looked fit for going was the scrapyard.

Some poor souls sat in that for 3 hours. And they tell us that they're rolling out new trains atm?? :confused:

Dodge

25/10/2007, 8:34 PM

onceahoop

25/10/2007, 9:33 PM

How much of the 5 billion is construction costs?

Couldn't give a monkeys. If the people of Tallaght and Dundrum and other points west and south of the Liffey can have the Luas, why can't us culchies out in North County Dublin have a rapid rail system. It's expected that in twenty years the population of Swords will exceed 100,000 and when you add on increases in Donabate, Lusk, Rush and Skerries it's imperative that a system is put in place wahtever the cost. There's no room for a third railwayline because of the amount of houses built next to the railway line so an increase in the train service is hard to imagine.

pete

26/10/2007, 11:49 AM

It's expected that in twenty years the population of Swords will exceed 100,000 and when you add on increases in Donabate, Lusk, Rush and Skerries it's imperative that a system is put in place wahtever the cost.

The proposed 5 billion Metro does not have enough capacity to cater for current demand let alone increased populations. If the underground station is built for 3 carraige trains then you cannot just increase the size of the trains. There are even doubts if the Metro could break even on day to day operations.

mypost

26/10/2007, 1:34 PM

Was on the sligo train last Friday (work in Mullingar for the day) and it was the most modern train I've seen in Ireland.

They're all on the Dublin-Cork route. They were launched 18 months ago, after the IR strike. Most of the Sligo trains are nice, modern Commuter trains, but the train going to Sligo was the second such one I've seen this week, leaving at the same time.

why can't us culchies out in North County Dublin have a rapid rail system.

You do. It's called the DART. :confused: