UEFA Coefficient

[higgins]

Anyway, its not like European football is going to be impacting your club anytime soon so you have nothing to worry about for the next few years.


wow !!
Do you feel better now you got that dig in ? :rolleyes:

0.166 going means nothing. I think we should be aiming for 2 points per season. I think the most we can expect now is a Drogheda win and maybe Derry to get a draw making up 1 point. I don't see Derry doing anything in the 2nd Round and depending on Droghedas draw I think getting 1 point is about all we can expect.

Seen as shels beat Odense at home last year and really should have done so by more than just the one, I did think Pats would at least draw. It's only Odense! We've managed draws with the likes of Deportivo and PSG in the past so we're no mugs.

Drogheda should have won and Derry should have won. 0.333 wasted. 0.333 that would have sealed our place as seeds next season, as it stands we may just miss out again.

When you see the likes of Iceland and Lithuania picking up good points and I know we're better than them, it is worrying.
Our champions elect can only grab a draw with the 2nd placed team from San marino ???

[gspain]

Pats did well to get the draw but appreciate our clubs have met tougher opposition in the past.

We were unlucky with the draw. Pats got the toughest possible opponent. Derry got one of the hardest draws they could have got. Derry can still go through. Drogheda will surely win. Pats are probably an outside bet now.

The Lithuanian sides got much better draws. They still had 2 aways defeats against a team from Montenegro (probably improving new country) and Dungannon. The standard is clearly slipping there but they will probably do enough to hold us off for another year.

We may actually need Derry to qualify for the UEFA Cup to get a seed next year.

[bigmac]

2 points a year would be ideal but would probably rely on teams getting results in the next round. To be logical about it, if all teams are seeded, then we should be expecting at least 1.5 points per year - i.e. an away draw and a home win against unseeded opposition. Anything after that would be a nice bonus then.

[Terry]

Was just wondering, where would we have to end up in the coefficient table so we would have 4 teams entering into european competitions?
.

so can anyone answer me this question?

[kdjaC]

so can anyone answer me this question?

pats drogs cork and derry.


ehhhhh


kdjac

[Schumi]

so can anyone answer me this question?

I think we have to be ranked 25th or thereabouts or higher. A long way off anyway.

[bennocelt]

Pats did well to get the draw but appreciate our clubs have met tougher opposition in the past.

We were unlucky with the draw. Pats got the toughest possible opponent. Derry got one of the hardest draws they could have got. Derry can still go through. Drogheda will surely win. Pats are probably an outside bet now.

.

yeah agree
I honestly was expecting both derry and pats to slip up, so to get 2 draws isnt too bad
and Drogheda had an off day

i expect derry to get a result out there, and drogheda to win.............so whats the problem with the co - efficients? we didnt do too badly

[paul_oshea]

pats drogs cork and derry.


ehhhhh


kdjac


obviouslly substituting the intertoto for the uefa straight off there kdjac.

[bigmac]

so can anyone answer me this question?

without resorting to Fair Play spots or teams coming through the InterToto, the third placed teams from the countries ranked 7 to 21 go into the UEFA Cup and from 1-6 go into the Champions League.

Previously, it was noted that having an extra team might not be the best result for the coefficient given that it would have to be split 4 ways rather than 3, however the extra team would enter the 1st qualifying for the UEFA and would hence be seeded (eg Valerenga from Norway).

As another interesting item to note - we would get a third team in the UEFA (ranked 21) before any team would automatically start in the 2nd qualifying round (ranked 18).

[Terry]

thanks bigmac

[JC_GUFC]

Tonight both the Moldovan and Lithuanian teams won their second legs so they're both ranked above us again, however the Lithuanian team went out on aggregate. Cyprus lost their CL team in the 1st round again but are still quite a bit ahead of us in the rankings.

As regards getting a 4th European qualifier, this year Serbia, ranked 21st was the lowest ranked league to get 4 representatives (not including Fair Play/Intertoto qualifiers). Leagues like Poland and Denmark still only get 3 qualifiers to European competitions so we've a long way to go.

This table http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/access2007.html shows how biased the seeding system is to the top 8 countries in Europe.

Michel Platini has pledged to change this but it will be a tough task.

[gspain]

Of even more concern is that 2 of our rival countries below us for a UEFA seeding will now meet in the 2nd round of the CL. BATE will likely meet FH from Iceland. Both will likely gain more points and 1 of them will have 4 more games to play after this round with the good chance of a club coefficient from the 1st round of the UEFA Cup. The winners of the 2nd round tie will have a great chacne of catching us.

The win for Lithuania is still bad news. They would have been unlikely to have got anything from Rangers anyway. They have boosted the coefficient.

The 4th Euro place is a long way off. The first aim is all our 3 teams seeded which means better draws and a chance to boost the coefficient.

We really could do with a few results now.

Leaving any club loyalties behind we could also do with Derry reaching the UEFA Cup next year as they have aclub coefficient and would likely be seeded without the country coefficient.

[swinfordfc]

Watch the match last night and in fairest - Derry were a poor side - sloppy defending - full backs not coming in helping the 2 central halves and then then poor passing in central midfield. And in the odd attack - it was individual play - no team work or passing a ball to a team mate in a better position. All in all - they were poor and to be honest, the other side was poor too!

Down to 35th spot now in the coefficent's - its up to the Drogs especially and hoping St. Pats can nick something

[bennocelt]

Derry did a terrible dis-service to the league, shame on you, that Armenian team were rubbish

Our only hope now is Drogheda

[GavinZac]

Our only hope now is Drogheda

yeah, if drogs stick 11 men behind the ball and hold on to their away goal advantage, they might scrape through. They could definately be a banana skin for this Veritas side.

[OneRedArmy]

Derry did a terrible dis-service to the league, shame on you, that Armenian team were rubbishWhich is more than balanced out by the points we got last year.

And precisely why do you care? Are Belfast Celtic planning a comeback in the EL sometime soon?

Whinging from fans of extinct clubs/EL clubs that won't get within a sniff of European place defines futile.

[higgins]

Is there some reason why you can't make a comment on foot without the team you support being dragged into it ?

On the coefficient, I said we'd be lucky to get 1 point this season and was told I was wrong. I still think we'll do well to get 1 point this season.

Pats I expect to lose. They may surprise us and grab a draw but can't see Odense slipping up at home. Drogheda simply have to win!! I'll walk away from EL if they lose :)

So we go into Round 2 with 0.833

Not great...
Hopefully a very kind draw for Drogheda may see us reach that 1 point.

Having witnessed Lithuanian teams over the previous few seasons I find it amazing we are stuck behind them. Theres somethin within the EL that makes us fear any side who are unknown. These sides are brutal.. We just have to be winning these games.

and before anyone says it
Yes I know Shels are a evil club and we brought shame on the league and we overspent and we should rot in hell and we so and so on....

[paul_oshea]

Is there some reason why you can't make a comment on foot without the team you support being dragged into it ?


the reason for that is simple. No actual ( rational and meaningful )comeback is possible, so a patronising look down ( because/based of the club you follow) on your response is required.

[Dodge]

Which is more than balanced out by the points we got last year
I hope your co-efficient points keep you warm at night when you're lying back and thinking of your team's performances this year

[OneRedArmy]

I hope your co-efficient points keep you warm at night when you're lying back and thinking of your team's performances this yearI'm as annoyed as anyone on here about our European performances this year.

But anyone that has seen enough of us this season (ie our fans) had limited expectations based on our disaster of a season so far.

I don't really care about the minutae of coefficient points for reasons I'm tired of stating, and I think the fact we were seeded this season showed that it isn't necessarily the Holy Grail of European football. The team still needs to go out and play.

We didn't and we got knocked out.

On a wider scale however I think the fall in performances is entirely predictable and simply reflects the fact that the League as a whole has been paying unsustainable wages and the quality of football was overstated at the top clubs. The league has lost over a dozen top players in the last season or so, as well as Shels implosion.

Last season a couple of people tried to inject some reality into the discussion by suggesting it was improbable that European results would simply improve or even consolidate every year, based on the huge improvements in the past few years.

This has been proved true.

[Dodge]

I'm as annoyed as anyone on here about our European performances this year.

I wasn't only talking about europe...

[bennocelt]

Which is more than balanced out by the points we got last year.

And precisely why do you care? Are Belfast Celtic planning a comeback in the EL sometime soon?

Whinging from fans of extinct clubs/EL clubs that won't get within a sniff of European place defines futile.

as an Eircom League fan....of course i care about irish football

but yeah you are right, Derry did the league proud last year, its just so dissappointing to see them go out to a poor team this year:(

[dancinpants]

I wasn't only talking about europe...



I'm as annoyed as anyone on here about our European performances this year.

But anyone that has seen enough of us this season (ie our fans) had limited expectations based on our disaster of a season so far

Neither was he :rolleyes:

[kdjaC]

.

Having witnessed Lithuanian teams over the previous few seasons I find it amazing we are stuck behind them. Theres somethin within the EL that makes us fear any side who are unknown. These sides are brutal.. We just have to be winning these games.
.

They are technically better than our irish players and can slow a game down without hoofing, and in europe that wins matches.



kdjac

[pete]

I had no expectation that the points gained this seasons would match those of the last 2 seasons but I still expected to beat the low total of 1.333 from 3 season ago which now looks unlikely.

You can talk about last season but Derry still let the league down with only a draw against an unseeded team. If the Armenians were good they would not have been unseeded.

It seems unlikely Pats will add to their points but with a difficult draw at least they have contributed.

Drogs may have been hopeless to give up a draw but at least they have time to make up for it. Unfortunately looks like its reliant on an easy draw in the 2nd qualifying round now.

The eL has consistently beaten Lithuanian sides yet they still ahead of us :(

[Cymro]

The Armenians will probably be seeded next year Pete. They were among the higher non-seeds. Obviously it depends on what they do in the next round and beyond.

I expected Derry to beat Pyunik at home, but was not at all surprised by the result in Armenia.

As for the Lithuanian sides, they tend to do less well against British style teams but have a decent record against other European teams.

[Celdrog]

yeah, if drogs stick 11 men behind the ball and hold on to their away goal advantage, they might scrape through. They could definately be a banana skin for this Veritas side.
Are Veritas the crowd that publish religious books?
Libertas, on the other hand, are a San Marinese team that are coming to Dalymount on Thursday.
Must be hard for some langers to hope the Drogs win a game, especially as you shower contributed nothing to the co-efficient this year. :D

[pineapple stu]

The Armenians will probably be seeded next year Pete. They were among the higher non-seeds. Obviously it depends on what they do in the next round and beyond.
The Armenians won't be anywhere near being seeded next year. They're 44th in the rankings; 37th-ish is the seeding cut off.

[OneRedArmy]

If the Armenians were good they would not have been unseeded.(And how do you explain Derry's and all the other EL unseeded victories over the last few years?

Seeding is an indicator of past average performance, not a right of passage.

[pete]

And how do you explain Derry's and all the other EL unseeded victories over the last few years?

Seeding is an indicator of past average performance, not a right of passage.

The eL has been improving in recent seasons. Armerian has not. The eL gained more ranking points last year than Armenia have in the last 5 years. Thats the size of the gap. Derry City do get credit for not being as bad as Drogs ;)

Good to see Drogs fans unable to defend their teams performance. By having a go Cork City ye seem to have forgotten Drogs gained its their first ever Uefa ranking points the previous season.

:rolleyes:

[OneRedArmy]

The eL has been improving in recent seasons. Armerian has not. The eL gained more ranking points last year than Armenia have in the last 5 years. Thats the size of the gap. Derry City do get credit for not being as bad as Drogs ;)

Good to see Drogs fans unable to defend their teams performance. By having a go Cork City ye seem to have forgotten Drogs gained its their first ever Uefa ranking points the previous season.

:rolleyes:Much of the ELs improvement has been proved as financially unsustainable.

Shels, Cork and last year Derry have been responsible for most of the coefficient improvement. Shels have imploded, Cork's side has been broken up and sold (and lost to Swedish opposition for the 1st time in 4 years for an EL side) and Derry whilst having a similar side have not been able to afford the professionalism of the Kenny era.

The quality of the EL is not as high as in previous years and is more reflective of what level of football is realistic given poor revenue and small attendences.

Disappointing but true.

[Celdrog]

Good to see Drogs fans unable to defend their teams performance. :rolleyes:
Pete, we arent even attempting to defend our performace. We were hopeless, simple as that.


By having a go Cork City ye seem to have forgotten Drogs gained its their first ever Uefa ranking points the previous season.
:rolleyes:
I was having a go at GavinZac for his usual snide comments and reminding him that we are finally contributing something to the co-efficicent, something which Cork did not do this year, hence the stupidity of having a pop at us. Hence the word "some" before the word "langers"

[higgins]

The Armenians will probably be seeded next year Pete. They were among the higher non-seeds. Obviously it depends on what they do in the next round and beyond.



Be honest now
did you just make that up ?

I can't see any situation where the Armenians are seeded in next seasons Champions League QR1 draw. They would need so many results that they would end up in the Champions League/UEFA group stages before they got them!

Drogheda win brings us to 0.833
Pats I hope can pull off a draw, it's not impossible. Thats takes us to 1.000 and I'd be happy enough going into Round 2!

Would Drogheda take points off any of these ??

Blackburn Rovers Eng 36.618
OB Odense * Den 15.129
Standard Liège Bel 14.594
Vålerengen IF * Nor 11.509
Dunfermline Athletic Sco 10.064
FC Midtjylland * Den 9.129
AaB Aalborg Den 7.129
Fredrikstad FK Nor 6.509
SK Brann Bergen * Nor 6.509
Lillestrøm SK * Nor 6.509
AIK Stockholm * Swe 4.478

* If they win through the first round

[DmanDmythDledge]

Would Drogheda take points off any of these ??

Blackburn Rovers Eng 36.618
OB Odense * Den 15.129
Standard Liège Bel 14.594
Vålerengen IF * Nor 11.509
Dunfermline Athletic Sco 10.064
FC Midtjylland * Den 9.129
AaB Aalborg Den 7.129
Fredrikstad FK Nor 6.509
SK Brann Bergen * Nor 6.509
Lillestrøm SK * Nor 6.509
AIK Stockholm * Swe 4.478

* If they win through the first round
They would have a good chance against Dunfermline. Decent chance against the lower teams there as well.

[Kingdom]

They would have a good chance against Dunfermline. Decent chance against the lower teams there as well.

Was thinking myself they'd have an even chance with any of the teams from Dunfermline down.

[pete]

I think ye are getting ahead of yourselves as Drogs have 2nd leg to get past. :o

[Torn-Ado]

im not been over ambitiotous but i reckon with the way the draw is going the day is coming where an irish team draws whatever team from england goes intertoto and beat them.seen blackburn a few times last year and they werent great at all.add in the seasons not kicked off and a suprise could happen


im not been over ambitiotous


Yes you are. You're in dreamland.

[Jerry The Saint]

Blackburn Rovers Eng 36.618
OB Odense * Den 15.129
Standard Liège Bel 14.594


Puts Pats task in a bit of perspective :eek: Oh well, I hear the beer is good over there. :D

[Torn-Ado]

Puts Pats task in a bit of perspective :eek: Oh well, I hear the beer is good over there. :D

Tuborg. Damn fine.

Carlsberg wouldn't lace its boots.

:D

[higgins]

Shels Cork Bohs and Derry have upset the seeds in previous years.
Why not Pats ?

If you're serious about winning leagues and making progress in europe then the likes of Odense shouldn't hold much fear. They're better and they probably will win through but it's not Deportivo, Steau or PSG you're up against.

I think we may see a close game tomorrow.
Irish teams in the past few season have all managed to raise their game when required. Fingers crossed...

[DmanDmythDledge]

Would Drogheda take points off any of these ??

Blackburn Rovers Eng 36.618
OB Odense * Den 15.129
Standard Liège Bel 14.594
Vålerengen IF * Nor 11.509
Dunfermline Athletic Sco 10.064
FC Midtjylland * Den 9.129
AaB Aalborg Den 7.129
Fredrikstad FK Nor 6.509
SK Brann Bergen * Nor 6.509
Lillestrøm SK * Nor 6.509
AIK Stockholm * Swe 4.478

* If they win through the first round
FC Midtjlland are losing 3-2 to Icelandic after the first leg and Lillestrom were knocked out by some Luxembourg team. Just shows that teams there are nothing to be afraid of.

[TonyD]

Shels Cork Bohs and Derry have upset the seeds in previous years.
Why not Pats ?
I think we may see a close game tomorrow.
Irish teams in the past few season have all managed to raise their game when required. Fingers crossed...

Fingers and toes. Hour and a half to go, and it's just been confirmed to me that it's definietly on in McDowells via the internet. If you're a Pats fan reading this, get yourself down there. I'm much more hopeful than optimistic TBH, but you just never know.....

[pineapple stu]

Both Lithuanian teams through with wins.

Zimbru are out after a draw today. Nistru losing on the night and on aggregate. If it stays that way, then a win for Drogheda tonight and one draw in the second round would see us no worse than 34th (assuming no-one catches us, which is unlikely). That's up one place on where we started.

[pete]

5 games down & no wins this season :(

Real step backwards this season.

[sligoman]

5 games down & no wins this season :(

Real step backwards this season.It's obvious this summer season isn't improving things and last season was just a fluke...back to the winter!:p

[pineapple stu]

Update (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html).

Moldovan team won on the night but lost on penalties; forgot they had another team still in it. 34th a possibility, but at least we won't be going backwards and will still be seeded for the CL next year, and probably a similar situation with regards the UEFA as for this year, unless Derry get in.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Dunfermline or Fredrikstad would be the two best teams for Drogheda to get in the next round as they are living off their countrie's co-efficient.

Will Drogheda have their own co-efficient next season?

[Big Ears]

Dunfermline or Fredrikstad would be the two best teams for Drogheda to get in the next round as they are living off their countrie's co-efficient.

Will Drogheda have their own co-efficient next season?

Club coefficient is only earned from the proper stages onward so unless they get to the 1st round at least and get a result there then no .

[higgins]

Bad night for the coefficient. We are placed 7th out of 13 countries in the Northern Section of the UEFA Cup Qualifying Round 1. Chances are that Sweden Finland and Norway will grab the fair play places as they have done for the past few seasons and move both Irish teams to the unseeded section.

We needed to pass out Lithuania and have failed to do that.
they have 1.333 to our 0.833 and have 2 teams left in it.

A good draw for Drogheda could give us a chance to catch them but it looks like we'll be back in the unseeded side next season.
Derry and Shels got results in the 3rd Round of european competitions in previous seasons so why not Drogheda to pull out two 2nd Round wins and a 3rd Round draw or two :)

[Celdrog]

so why not Drogheda to pull out two 2nd Round wins and a 3rd Round draw or two :)
Unlikely becaue Doolin, the Board and the fans only care about the league this year.
Sorry, but don't hold out too much hope for the co-efficient this year. We've contributed 1.5 points so far. If we get Dunfermline we may contribute more.

By the way Stephen Kenny was at the match tonight looking worried;)