Copa America.. the Irish connection

[seand]

With the Copa America and all that…. I was wondering are there or have there been any South Americas in the League of Ireland? Didn’t Sligo have a Bolivian or Ecuadorian recently? Are there any others?

[CharlesThompson]

With the Copa America and all that…. I was wondering are there or have there been any South Americas in the League of Ireland? Didn’t Sligo have a Bolivian or Ecuadorian recently? Are there any others?

Did I hear right in that the famous Socrates once played football in Ireland? i.e. not international football I'm talking about.

[Dodge]

Urban Legend.

He didn't

[Calcio Jack]

For me the major connection was the Santos visit in 1972 to play a Drums/Bohs selection in Dalymount... Pele played in a cracking game in front of 45,000.... Rovers legend Johhny Fulham scored one of the goals from a penalty... on the same day Ireland's Terry Conroy scored a goal for Stoke City as they beat Chelsea in the League Cup final at Wembley

[Pablo]

Slightly related.........USA striker Charlie Davies played against us for Hammarby at the weekend having played in the Coppa America.

[sparkey]

The Brazilian Nelson DaSilva played for Derry City in their early days in the LOI. From memory he was on loan to them from Standard Leige (spelling??) in Belguim. Someone from Derry will be able to verify or slate above statment.

[paul_oshea]

i often thought about this before, for the full time clubs ( would it be possible for part-time clubs? ) how come they haven't tried to bring over some south american players of average to decent pedigree, it would surely increase the following for all the brazlians in ireland for example, but it would also probably increase the competitiveness of the league. Its just another avenue to explore i reckon.

[Dodge]

Pats had a couple of Brazillians on our books in 2003. Luis Sacilitto made his debut in the last game of the season. Both of them played for the u21 season. I thought Luis was good but the centre half was rubbish. in the excellent book "Futbol" about Brazilian football they have a chapter on a Brazillian who plays in the Faroes

[Snoop Drog]

Urban Legend.

He didn't

So he wasn't a student and player at UCD?

[ifk101]

Googled.

Before he became a doctor (and a famous footballer) Brazilian footballer Socrates apparently spent some of his student years in Dublin. My memory is hazy but I think I was told that while there he played for University College Dublin (UCD) in the FAI Cup, or it could have been that he only managed to make the UCD reserve team. Is there any truth to these unlikely stories? if so, maybe that's where he picked up his smoking habit", writes Colman Walsh


Amazingly enough Colman, you're right. "Socrates did play for UCD, but it was way, way back, sometime in the 70s." says Brendan McKenna of the Football Association of Ireland. "He was an attraction at the time, but it was before he played for the Brazilian team. He wouldn't have played much more than a season." That's confirmed by Gerry Callan of the Irish Star, who says he thinks Socrates did play for UCD, but only for the reserves on Saturday's as the first team played on Sunday, and he didn't want to play then.

[MyTown]

Where was the Waterford player Jose Quitongo from?..........bit of an African surname alright but........?

[Sheridan]

Paulo Nicomedes was the other Brazilian at Pat's. I seem to remember one of them scoring an own goal in the Under 21 cup final circa 2004.

Carlos Alvarez was the Bolivian who played for Sligo. Think he had a trial with Wexford Youths but didn't make the cut. Wasn't very good as I recall.

[Hitman]

Where was the Waterford player Jose Quitongo from?..........bit of an African surname alright but........?

I'm fairly sure he's from Angola.

[Mr A]

He was Portuguese iirc.

[Sheridan]

Where was the Waterford player Jose Quitongo from?..........bit of an African surname alright but........?
It's a Portuguese name, but he was African (specifically Angolan.)

[OneRedArmy]

The Brazilian Nelson DaSilva played for Derry City in their early days in the LOI. From memory he was on loan to them from Standard Leige (spelling??) in Belguim. Someone from Derry will be able to verify or slate above statment.Absolute genius in midfield.

Don't believe he was on loan (could be wrong) but was joined us midway through our first season in the LoI in 1985-1986. Beat half the Longford team in the Shield final in 1986 before laying off to Da Gama to score a cracker.

Sadly passed away in his 40's a few years back.

[Dodge]

Paulo Nicomedes was the other Brazilian at Pat's. I seem to remember one of them scoring an own goal in the Under 21 cup final circa 2004

Would've been 2003, and he also gave away a penalty in that game

[superfrank]

I'm fairly sure he's from Angola.
He sure is. There was even talk of him being called up for the 2006 World Cup. I think he plays in the lower reaches of the Scottish league now.

[SunderlandBohs]

Didn't Brad Fridel go on loan to Pat's from Sunderland? We couldn't get a work permit for him so he was loaned to Pat's to keep him match fit. I don't think he played for them. I think that was due to the fact he didn't get his work permit for us.

[fergalr]

Stop the nonsense about Socrates please!! He was never a student in Ireland and never played footie of any description here. Its pure urban myth and anything you see on the net claiming otherwise is pure spoof.

[neutrino]

Stop the nonsense about Socrates please!! He was never a student in Ireland and never played footie of any description here. Its pure urban myth and anything you see on the net claiming otherwise is pure spoof.

yeah there was a thread about this on here before and it was rubbished also.

[bigmac]

Jose Quitongo was Angolan but started his career with Benfica - which is where the Portuguese link comes in. (Angola is a former colony also)

He had two spells with Waterford, which are not listed on most of the internet links, thus proving once again that "wikipedia says..." is about as useful as "a fella in the pub said.."

Don't think there have been any S. Americans that I remember in Waterford but there have been a few N. Americans and Africans alright.

[Bluebeard]

Don't think there have been any S. Americans that I remember in Waterford but there have been a few N. Americans and Africans alright.
There was a bloke with Waterford for about 3 games in the early 1990s, after we moved to the RSC, who had claims on Brazilian ancestry.

Until you spoke to him - he was a terminal Brummie. His da did come from Brazil though. Clearly, had he bothered his arse at all at Waterford, he would have attracted the attention of Parrira (an RSC regular at the time), and his life might have been somewhat different.

Funnily enough Socrates secretly used to play Leinster Senior League with Dublin Bus for 3 season from 1984 to 1987: he was a ringer, who came over during the off season for the challenge, and played under teh assumed name of Paddy Geary. The UCD thing is just pure myth though - what a ludicrous thought.

[paul_oshea]

bluebeard where do you come up with this stuff?

[passinginterest]

Carlos Alvarez was the Bolivian who played for Sligo. Think he had a trial with Wexford Youths but didn't make the cut. Wasn't very good as I recall.

Playing for Duncannon FC in the Wexford and District League now. Scored 4 goals in a cup final recently I hear.

[Jerry The Saint]

In a normal country you might expect that an official from the Football Association would be a reliable source of information instead of being full of **** and repeating some rumour he heard down the pub.



"Socrates did play for UCD, but it was way, way back, sometime in the 70s." says Brendan McKenna of the Football Association of Ireland. "He was an attraction at the time, but it was before he played for the Brazilian team. He wouldn't have played much more than a season."

Nice clear, verifiable evidence there. Pinpointed the event down to a mere decade. Good job they checked with another reliable source



That's confirmed by Gerry Callan of the Irish Star, who says he thinks Socrates did play for UCD, but only for the reserves on Saturday's as the first team played on Sunday, and he didn't want to play then

Confirmed my hole! :D


An alternative viewpoint

http://www.ofutebol.com/AskAlex.aspx?month=April&year=2003


I have two enquiries. Firstly about Socrates - I have often heard the urban legend that he was a medical student here in Ireland. I've heard two versions of the story - in one he was studying for a time in the Royal College of Surgeons, asked one day if there was any football around and was sent out to play with Bohemians reserves. The other has him in my own alma mater University College Dublin and winning the Collingwood Cup, an inter collegiate football tournament while here. I would be very grateful if you could tell me if there is any truth to either story.

Secondly, a common story here in Ireland is that Pele's nickname derives from "peile", the Gaelic for football (more usually the Gaelic version), which Irish nuns gave the young Edson. I know in the book you write that the origin of Pele is unknown, and I recall Pele in interviews saying he didn't know himself, but just another theory you mightn't have heard before.
Finally, its only polite to tell you that I write occasional articles for the Irish medical press, I was thinking of maybe pitching a brief one about your book focusing on the Socrates angle.

Thanks

Seamus Sweeney


Response:

I never realized that Brazilian football had such an Irish connection!

Both are delightful stories and I wish they were both true....

So I emailed Socrates and asked him. He replied: "I've never been to Dublin."

Then I emailed Pepito Fornos, who has worked with Pele for decades.

He wrote: "The explanation makes no sense at all. It's absurd" :) .

"There is only one explanation - Pelé's dad, Dondinho, played for a team in Bauru, in Sao Paulo State, whose goalie was called Bilé. Pelé, aged eight, when he messed around in goal in the streets, said he was Bilé - and his friends thought he was saying Pelé. The name stuck, even though Pelé didn?t like it, but he got used to it."

So that's the official line - although I'm sure new explanations for Pelé's name will carry on appearing as will stories from Socrates' past.

Anyone know why Germany sometimes wear green jerseys? ;)

[soccerc]

Anyone know why Germany sometimes wear green jerseys? ;)

Another urban (parochial Irish more so) myth:)

[gustavo]

What about that shamrock in Panathinaikos's flag!

[paul_oshea]

LOL quality, jerry.

[osarusan]

Leonardo Trenchin - not sure about the spelling.

Played with Limerick once in the early 90s. I remember being thrilled that we had a Argentinian on the team. He was subbed on, made a few shapes which impressed me greatly, then was nailed in a brutal, but fair tackle, and was nothing more than an onlooker until the end.

Never saw him again.

[bellavistaman]

Ramblers once had a nigerian international playing for them, anto omagufi or something, now playing with mallow, briliant. Some man for a back flip tough. Never played with us, only reserves, no good.

[Dodge]

Ah the old "sign me I'm an international" trick.

[bellavistaman]

Ah the old "sign me I'm an international" trick.

in our case he became a international whilst playin with rams(even though never started) played on the same team as Jay Jay Okocha, has his jersey and all.

[Dodge]

Of course he did

[Sheridan]

Was he the one who got picked for an international at Loftus Road or somewhere because he happened to be in the right place at the right time?

[osarusan]

Of course he did


Are you calling anto ofa.....omi......omagufi a liar?

[OneRedArmy]

Derry City once paid an Africian trialist with a large bag of sweets........

Allegedly.

[Dodge]

I'm literally gobsmacked (http://www.nigerianplayers.com/player.asp?pID=301)

Apologies to bellavistaman. Not as big a geek as I thought I was

Now in Wales (http://www.welshpremier.com/PlayerDisplay.ink?squadno=10400&club=&season=06/07&type=P)

[osarusan]

Are you calling anto ofa.....omi......omagufi a liar?


I'm literally gobsmacked (http://www.nigerianplayers.com/player.asp?pID=301)

Apologies to bellavistaman. Not as big a geek as I thought I was

Now in Wales (http://www.welshpremier.com/PlayerDisplay.ink?squadno=10400&club=&season=06/07&type=P)


Oh, I look foolish.

[Dodge]

According to kickoffnigeria.com: "He was an absolute disaster with top stars like Joseph Yobo coming out to blast officials of the Nigerian FA for dragging the good name of Nigerian football in the mud with such a call-up."

http://www.welsh-premier.com/news.php?ID=4951


:D

[bellavistaman]

Was he the one who got picked for an international at Loftus Road or somewhere because he happened to be in the right place at the right time?

Correct!:)

[gustavo]

We had a guy , who played for Nigeria around the same time then signed for us a few months later whose name escapes me , he was in the Weekender here going on about how Nwankwo Kanu gave him advice

[bellavistaman]

I'm literally gobsmacked (http://www.nigerianplayers.com/player.asp?pID=301)

Apologies to bellavistaman. Not as big a geek as I thought I was

Now in Wales (http://www.welshpremier.com/PlayerDisplay.ink?squadno=10400&club=&season=06/07&type=P)

ha brilliant, he wit mallow in MSL in cork now though. See the bit "because of the Ajax jersey he weared":D

[gustavo]

We had a guy , who played for Nigeria around the same time then signed for us a few months later whose name escapes me , he was in the Weekender here going on about how Nwankwo Kanu gave him advice

Found him , he only trained with the team
http://archives.tcm.ie/sligoweekender/2003/02/04/story10924.asp

[bellavistaman]

According to kickoffnigeria.com: "He was an absolute disaster with top stars like Joseph Yobo coming out to blast officials of the Nigerian FA for dragging the good name of Nigerian football in the mud with such a call-up."

http://www.welsh-premier.com/news.php?ID=4951


:D

Class :D maybe he is in Wales now was with mallow this season alrite, he was very poor though, just quick.

[paul_oshea]

Onoriode Omagufi (left) in London for his international debut against Nigeria.

that makes no sense, it said he made his debut against Nigeria.

[Dodge]

Joined the Welsh in january according to that, from Mallow

[LeixlipRed]

He got his game because JJ Okocha had to leave to catch a flight?? Why couldn't they have played someone else? Anyone know anything more about this story? I wonder if I booked Ian Harte a flight back to Spain during our next game could I.....no it'd never work, Stan would see right through it :D

[Flawless]

Juan Sara Played with shels didnt he?

[Kildare Lad]

We had a nigerian who played in the 2000 olympic games. And he also played in the German second division at some stage I think. James Igwilo