Uefa draws

[pete]

What do everyone feel the expectations are this season? (This is also open to IL & LOW fans)

I think it will be very difficult for the eL to match the highs of last season with 2.833 coefficient points. I would delighted to match the previous seasons 1.833 as this would hopefully see a possible another 2 or 3 place increase in the Uefa rankings.

On a team basis I think getting all eL teams past the 1st qualifying round is a requirement & see what happens from there.

[Cymro]

Here's a thing on wikipedia. It's a League of Leagues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficients#League_coefficient

That's the national coefficients isn't it? Wales isn't ranked 32nd in the club rankings.

[Steve Bruce]

That's the national coefficients isn't it? Wales isn't ranked 32nd in the club rankings.


No, Wales are ranked 45th. It is league co-efficients. Look further down the article.

Republic are 40th and Irish League is joint with wales.

[pete]

Here's a thing on wikipedia. It's a League of Leagues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficients#League_coefficient

The league rankings that Wiki claims are for 2007-08 are one-two years out of date.

This (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/) is the best & most reliable source of Uefa rankings. I don't see why anyone would bother with any other source.

[Steve Bruce]

What do everyone feel the expectations are this season? (This is also open to IL & LOW fans)

I think it will be very difficult for the eL to match the highs of last season with 2.833 coefficient points. I would delighted to match the previous seasons 1.833 as this would hopefully see a possible another 2 or 3 place increase in the Uefa rankings.

On a team basis I think getting all eL teams past the 1st qualifying round is a requirement & see what happens from there.

My expectations are.

Cliftonville to qualify to the next round in Intertoto. Then get knocked out.

Linfield to qualify to the 2nd round if we get any team bar the top 2 seeded teams. If we get knocked out, I hope we are able to win one of the two ties.

Glentoran to hopefully win one of their ties. Even if they get knocked out, it will be an increase in co-efficients

Dungannon to try and get something out of the two games. Again even if they get knocked out, if they are able to draw or win one of the ties it helps the co-efficient.

[Steve Bruce]

The league rankings that Wiki claims are for 2007-08 are one-two years out of date.

If anyone knows an updated one, I would be interested to see it.

[Cymro]

What do everyone feel the expectations are this season? (This is also open to IL & LOW fans)

I think it will be very difficult for the eL to match the highs of last season with 2.833 coefficient points. I would delighted to match the previous seasons 1.833 as this would hopefully see a possible another 2 or 3 place increase in the Uefa rankings.

On a team basis I think getting all eL teams past the 1st qualifying round is a requirement & see what happens from there.

In terms of Welsh sides I think if they all won their home legs and maybe 1 or 2 got through the first round it would have been a very good season.

Even if no-one gets through, if they all win their home leg our coefficient goes up to nearly 1.000, so that would get us towards the top non-seeded sides, with a long term goal of getting in the seeded half.

Linfield and TNS must fancy their chances in the Champions' League qualifiers if they get a good draw, as there are definitely some beateable sides in the seeded half eg Pobeda who have a coefficient of under 2.000 and are, importantly, out of season as well.

If Derry avoid the easternmost nations like Kazakhstan etc they should be through, there are some tricky potential opponents for them though. Ideally they'd want to avoid Montenegro (new association but tough teams) and probably won't want Linfield either.

As far as the UEFA goes I think Rhyl have a decent chance but Carmarthen will struggle to do anything given the fact that they've got a new manager and a lot of players. Not holding out much hope of them winning but hopefully Rhyl can challenge with a decent draw.

Both the EL and IL teams beign unseeded would do well to get one team through the first round in the UEFA in my opinion. I think the second round teams should have too much but with summer football the EL's reps could get through again to the first round proper.

As for the Intertoto Cork look home and dry already so should get through. I said they'd probably make it to the third round but still think the Dutch reps will have too much for them over two legs.

Llanelli have a glimmer of hope but having lost their two best players in recent days to injury/transfer will probably not get through. Cliftonville look like a decent shout of making the second round, that away goal for the Latvians makes things tricky though.

[bigmac]

One interesting point about the UEFA Cup draw is the high coefficient of the top two teams in it. These teams are both challenging but a result is possible and if they were to be knocked out, their opponents would carry their high coefficients into the next round - thus ensuring seeding and a favourable draw there.

[Dodge]

The most up to date UEFA rankings;

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html

LOI - 35th, IL - 45th, LOW 47th

[Graemerz]

I expect us to get Zagreb. We got the highest seeds last year. UEFA like to rape us every year.

[Steve Bruce]

The most up to date UEFA rankings;

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html

LOI - 35th, IL - 45th, LOW 47th

LOI should definatly go further up the rankings. Unless something disastrious happens this year.

IL has an opportunity to increase our Co-efficients as well. If all our teams are able to win 1 game and possibly Linfield and Glentoran get through(i think it would be a step too far for dungannon, but would love to be proved wrong) then it would be a big success for IL football. Although it would be a big ask as we where far from successful last season.

[Steve Bruce]

I expect us to get Zagreb. We got the highest seeds last year. UEFA like to rape us every year.

I'm expecting Zagreb, we always seem to draw the highest seeds.

At least if we pull off a massive shock we would be seeded for the 2nd round:rolleyes:

[Graemerz]

I don't think we would embarrass ourselves or the Irish League against Zagreb but I very much doubt we'd win. APOEL need to be avoided too...

CROATIA: NK Dinamo Zagreb http://www.nk-dinamo.hr/ Season to begin
CYPRUS: APOEL FC http://www.apoelfc.com.cy/ Season to begin
SWEDEN: IF Elfsborg http://www.elfsborg.se/ Currently 1st out of 14 after 12 games.
LATVIA: FK Ventspils http://www.fkventspils.lv/ Currently 4th out of 8 after 14 games.
SLOVAKIA: MSK Žilina http://www.mskzilina.sk/ Season to begin
SLOVENIA: NK Domžale http://www.nogometniklub-domzale.si/ Season to begin
BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA: FK Sarajevo http://www.fcsarajevo.com/ Season to begin
REPUBLIC OF IRELAND: Derry City FC http://www.derrycityfc.net/ Currently 8th out of 12 after 15 games.
ICELAND: FH Hafnarfjarðar http://www.fhingar.is/ Currently 1st out of 10 after 7 games.
LITHUANIA: FBK Kaunas http://www.fbk.lt/ Currently 1st out of 10 after 17 games.
FINLAND: Tampere United http://www.tampereunited.com/ Currently 1st out of 14 after 10 games.
MOLDOVA: FC Sheriff http://www.fc.sheriff.md/ Season to begin
GEORGIA: FC Olimpi Rustavi http://www.fctbilisi.ge/ Season to begin
FYR MACEDONIA: FK Pobeda http://www.fkpobeda.com.mk/ Season to begin

[Shelsman]

Think he meant fans that blow not fans that chant

Sick.


:p

[Mr A]

MOLDOVA: FC Sheriff

Some great opportunities for newspaper headlines there if Derry or Linfield get them.

[Shelsman]

Way to twist what I said to use it as a derogatory comment. We'd be a lot more competitive if this competition came a month later-you only have to look at our UEFA and Champions' League performances, which while not great are a heck of a lot more competitive than our intertoto performances.

I'm really not going to rise to this blatantly obvious attempt at baiting, so suffice to say you completely missed the point of my post. Congrats.

Relax man. Yes, you would be more competitive during your season -why not change to a summer season like we did then? I'm all for a strong Welsh league and for ye to do well in Europe -I always look for the Welsh results.

I would love to see ye in the Setanta cup ( ideally the top three welsh teams in the English Leagues and the top team in Wales, or maybe 2+2 to be fair ).

I do genuinely think that eL teams would beat Welsh League teams 80% of the time, maybe more but there's only one way to find out ( Setanta Cup or Europe, or both -lets hope both come about ).

[BohsFans]

LOI should definatly go further up the rankings. Unless something disastrious happens this year.

IL has an opportunity to increase our Co-efficients as well. If all our teams are able to win 1 game and possibly Linfield and Glentoran get through(i think it would be a step too far for dungannon, but would love to be proved wrong) then it would be a big success for IL football. Although it would be a big ask as we where far from successful last season.

I can maybe sorta see where your optimism is coming from as regards Linfield,
but Glentoran are muck and any of the seeded teams would easily beat them.
Take off the goggles for a sec.

btw I know you support Linfield.

[ifk101]

I suspect that both Glentoran and Dungannon will struggle in their ties, regardless of who they are drawn against. All the seeded teams are well into their respective seasons and that extra bit of fitness is usually a deciding factor over two legs.

Linfield would have more than a decent chance against some of the seeded teams in the Champions League draw especially those that haven't started their seasons.

There is one team Linfield would do well to avoid and that is Sheriff Tiraspol. The area of Moldova that Tiraspol lies in is not "visitor-friendly".

[BohsFans]

Linfield would have more than a decent chance against some of the seeded teams in the Champions League draw especially those that haven't started their seasons.

How do you reckon?
Linfield won't have started their season either (only 2 friendlies).
The majority of their squad is also part-time (7 full-timers?).
They're in a rubbish part-time league.


I'm not Linfield bashing here, just don't see where this blind optimism is coming from!

[ifk101]

How do you reckon?
Linfield won't have started their season either (only 2 friendlies).
The majority of their squad is also part-time (7 full-timers?).
They're in a rubbish part-time league.


I'm not Linfield bashing here, just don't see where this blind optimism is coming from!

I don't think there's a massive (if any) gap in quality between Linfield and the teams from Latvia, Iceland, Lithuania, Finland, Georgia and Macedonia. I sure Linfield would also fancy their chances against Derry.

[BohsFans]

I don't think there's a massive (if any) gap in quality between Linfield and the teams from Latvia, Iceland, Lithuania, Finland, Georgia and Macedonia. I sure Linfield would also fancy their chances against Derry.

The only teams I'd expect them to beat are the one's below them.


Linfield Belfast Nir 0.715
--------------------------------------
The New Saints Wal 0.660
HB Torshavn Far 0.550
F91 Dudelange Lux 0.550
Marsaxlokk Mlt 0.550
Ràngers FC And 0.000
Murata Sma 0.000
Zeta Golubovci Mon 0.000

[ifk101]

The only teams I'd expect them to beat are the one's below them.


Linfield Belfast Nir 0.715
--------------------------------------
The New Saints Wal 0.660
HB Torshavn Far 0.550
F91 Dudelange Lux 0.550
Marsaxlokk Mlt 0.550
Ràngers FC And 0.000
Murata Sma 0.000
Zeta Golubovci Mon 0.000

I never said I expect them to beat certain seeded teams. I said I reckon they have more than a reasonable chance against some of the seeded teams. Linfiled have beaten the Latvian representatives before so if we take the seeding system as a barometer of quality, Linfield should have a more than reasonable chance of progression against a lot of the seeded teams. I'd expect Zagreb and Elfsborg would blow them away though :D

[Steve Bruce]

I can maybe sorta see where your optimism is coming from as regards Linfield,
but Glentoran are muck and any of the seeded teams would easily beat them.
Take off the goggles for a sec.

btw I know you support Linfield.

I'm hoping Glentoran sign some good players. I don't think Glentoran will go through, I just hope they can win their home tie. That would at least give us some points.

[Steve Bruce]

How do you reckon?
Linfield won't have started their season either (only 2 friendlies).
The majority of their squad is also part-time (7 full-timers?).
They're in a rubbish part-time league.


I'm not Linfield bashing here, just don't see where this blind optimism is coming from!

We more than compete against the LOI. We haven't failed to top our group and we have been in 2 of 3 finals. That's why we are optimistic.

We have also been very unlucky in recent seasons, if we could just get a bit of luck on our side we could very well go through.

[Steve Bruce]

I don't think there's a massive (if any) gap in quality between Linfield and the teams from Latvia, Iceland, Lithuania, Finland, Georgia and Macedonia. I sure Linfield would also fancy their chances against Derry.

We would fancy our chances against any teams from them countries. We would definately fancy our chances against Derry. We are undefeated against them so far.

[Steve Bruce]

The only teams I'd expect them to beat are the one's below them.


Linfield Belfast Nir 0.715
--------------------------------------
The New Saints Wal 0.660
HB Torshavn Far 0.550
F91 Dudelange Lux 0.550
Marsaxlokk Mlt 0.550
Ràngers FC And 0.000
Murata Sma 0.000
Zeta Golubovci Mon 0.000

I am not saying we expect to beat anyone. But every seeded team is beatable although the two top sides would take a massive amount of effort. I do not see how people can write off Linfield but expect Derry to go through.

[Steve Bruce]

I never said I expect them to beat certain seeded teams. I said I reckon they have more than a reasonable chance against some of the seeded teams. Linfiled have beaten the Latvian representatives before so if we take the seeding system as a barometer of quality, Linfield should have a more than reasonable chance of progression against a lot of the seeded teams. I'd expect Zagreb and Elfsborg would blow them away though :D

We'll not get disgraced by any team in the draw that much I know. But I agree that I think we could beat certain seeded teams(nearly them all)

[BohsFans]

I am not saying we expect to beat anyone. But every seeded team is beatable although the two top sides would take a massive amount of effort. I do not see how people can write off Linfield but expect Derry to go through.

because they've proved themselves in Europe and Linfield haven't.

[BohsFans]

We more than compete against the LOI. We haven't failed to top our group and we have been in 2 of 3 finals. That's why we are optimistic.

We have also been very unlucky in recent seasons, if we could just get a bit of luck on our side we could very well go through.

you still don't get it!

Europe is a COMPLETELY different ball game.
It's a huge step up from playing Dungannon at Windsor.

[Steve Bruce]

because they've proved themselves in Europe and Linfield haven't.
They have one good season in Europe and now they are masters:rolleyes:

We'll see tomorrow who we both get and then we can guage each others chances.

If we get Ventspils, Linfield have a great chance of winning as we have already PROVED we can beat them as we done it 2 seasons ago.:rolleyes:

LOI supporters blind optimism is laughable when it comes to Derry City at the moment. They are struggling big time and yous still EXPECT them to go through a round or two in Europe.

For your sakes, lets hope Derry City and the rest of the teams competing in Europe do not share your arrogance.

[Steve Bruce]

you still don't get it!

Europe is a COMPLETELY different ball game.
It's a huge step up from playing Dungannon at Windsor.

We've beaten Shelbourne in their ground and in ours. They where the strongest team in the EL in recent history(since your good days in Europe). We finished undefeated against them. The Best LOI side their was

We have beaten Derry City and are still undefeated.

We've beaten Cork(We might have been outplayed, but we stuck the ball in the net and that's all you need to do) Still Undefeated.

The only team down south to give us trouble has been Drogheda and we've beat them as well.

So if all these teams are world beaters in Europe, then Linfield have every chance. Or do them results not count because it doesn't suit your arguement?

PS We have never played Dungannon in the Setanta

[refjohn]

[QUOTE=Steve Bruce;713346]They have one good season in Europe and now they are masters:rolleyes:

QUOTE]


I think if Stephen Kenny had still been at the Brandy - or even an effective Fenlon - then we would have been hoping for Linfield. In the summer a 2004-06 Derry team would have beaten then easy because Linfield out of season. The 2007 Derry team will struggle against anyone from Linfield up in the seedings.

Linfield will have more than 2 friendlies - they are on a training camp this weekend - in DERRY of all places - and play Newbuildings United on Saturday,

[Dodge]

Didn't see anyone say they expect Derry to get through 2 rounds but as the seeded teams they should have a more than evens chance of progressing past the first round. They'll need to be very lucky to get past two rounds. If they don't win the first round it'll be a massive disappointment. Jeez, you're not seede and think something similar about LInfield's chances.

The seeds in the UEFA Cup vary massively so if Drogs, or better still Pats get a decent draw they have excellent chances of progressing. Unless Glentoran or Dungannon strengthen their squads considerably or get very lucky with the draw, they may struggle

[Steve Bruce]

[QUOTE=Steve Bruce;713346]They have one good season in Europe and now they are masters:rolleyes:

QUOTE]


I think if Stephen Kenny had still been at the Brandy - or even an effective Fenlon - then we would have been hoping for Linfield. In the summer a 2004-06 Derry team would have beaten then easy because Linfield out of season. The 2007 Derry team will struggle against anyone from Linfield up in the seedings.

Linfield will have more than 2 friendlies - they are on a training camp this weekend - in DERRY of all places - and play Newbuildings United on Saturday,

No point in even arguing with that one because it's something no one will ever know.

Although at that time Portadown and Glentoran where winning the league and Linfield where struggling, so you could be right. Saying that I think Linfield vs Derry City will always be a tight affair no matter when it is played as their is so much pride at stake.

[ifk101]

LOI supporters blind optimism is laughable when it comes to Derry City at the moment. They are struggling big time and yous still EXPECT them to go through a round or two in Europe.

There's a 40% chance that Derry will draw a team from either the Faroes, Luxembourg, Malta, San Marino, Andorra and Montenegro. They should be able to beat these teams and as a seeded team they should be confident of progression. Plus it looks likes Ciaran Martyn is on his way back to Derry so that's probably a boost to their chances.

[BohsFans]

They have one good season in Europe and now they are masters:rolleyes:

We'll see tomorrow who we both get and then we can guage each others chances.

If we get Ventspils, Linfield have a great chance of winning as we have already PROVED we can beat them as we done it 2 seasons ago.:rolleyes:

LOI supporters blind optimism is laughable when it comes to Derry City at the moment. They are struggling big time and yous still EXPECT them to go through a round or two in Europe.

For your sakes, lets hope Derry City and the rest of the teams competing in Europe do not share your arrogance.

Blind optimism?

May I remind you that Derry's coef is 3.145 and Linfield's is a meagre 0.715!

btw I'm actually not too optimistic about Derry chances at the moment for obvious reasons, so blind doesn't even come into it!

Struck a nerve there did I?

You can preach once you've got results on the board, that's the only way people will take notice.

[Steve Bruce]

Didn't see anyone say they expect Derry to get through 2 rounds but as the seeded teams they should have a more than evens chance of progressing past the first round. They'll need to be very lucky to get past two rounds. If they don't win the first round it'll be a massive disappointment. Jeez, you're not seede and think something similar about LInfield's chances.

The seeds in the UEFA Cup vary massively so if Drogs, or better still Pats get a decent draw they have excellent chances of progressing. Unless Glentoran or Dungannon strengthen their squads considerably or get very lucky with the draw, they may struggle

My responses are more to do with people writing off Linfield because we are an IL team. Linfield might be an IL team, but we are by far the strongest and we have proven time and time again that we can compete at a much higher level(setanta). I'm not suggesting Linfield are certs, I am saying we have a good chance. Listening to Bohsfans, Linfield have no chance and might as well not show up.

I hope both Linfield and Derry City progress. It is good for this island of local football.

I agree with Glentoran and Dungannon. Both are too weak and unless they get a very lucky draw, I think both will go out with a wimper.

[Steve Bruce]

There's a 40% chance that Derry will draw a team from either the Faroes, Luxembourg, Malta, San Marino, Andorra and Montenegro. They should be able to beat these teams and as a seeded team they should be confident of progression. Plus it looks likes Ciaran Martyn is on his way back to Derry so that's probably a boost to their chances.

I stand to be corrected here, but isn't this Montenegros first year in Europe? If so they are very much unknown entities and would probably be best to avoid them in case their standard is higher than expected)

If you get any of them teams noted, then Derry will go through, I would expect Dungannon to put them teams out.

[Steve Bruce]

Blind optimism?

May I remind you that Derry's coef is 3.145 and Linfield's is a meagre 0.715!

btw I'm actually not too optimistic about Derry chances at the moment for obvious reasons, so blind doesn't even come into it!

Struck a nerve there did I?

You can preach once you've got results on the board, that's the only way people will take notice.

All it takes is Linfield to get the luck of the draw and have one good season in Europe to get a score like that. Their really isn't much in it. I expect Linfield to be seeded in the not so distant future. Our squad will be getting closer to full-time and our squad is getting bigger and better.

[BohsFans]

PS We have never played Dungannon in the Setanta

I know. What's that got to do with this?

[BohsFans]

All it takes is Linfield to get the luck of the draw and have one good season in Europe to get a score like that. Their really isn't much in it. I expect Linfield to be seeded in the not so distant future. Our squad will be getting closer to full-time and our squad is getting bigger and better.

OK David!

[Steve Bruce]

I know. What's that got to do with this?

I was talking about performances in the Setanta, you brought Dungannon into it. So you tell me:confused:

[BohsFans]

I was talking about performances in the Setanta, you brought Dungannon into it. So you tell me:confused:

Did you not play Dungannon in the Irish League?
Did you not play Dungannon in the Irish Cup final?

[BohsFans]

My responses are more to do with people writing off Linfield because we are an IL team. Linfield might be an IL team, but we are by far the strongest and we have proven time and time again that we can compete at a much higher level(setanta). I'm not suggesting Linfield are certs, I am saying we have a good chance. Listening to Bohsfans, Linfield have no chance and might as well not show up.


I'm saying that based on current evidence and past results at that level you have no bases for being so optimistic/cocky!

Prove me wrong. You don't break Europe overnight though!

[Steve Bruce]

Did you not play Dungannon in the Irish League?
Did you not play Dungannon in the Irish Cup final?

Do Derry, yourselves, St Pats etc etc play UCD?

I wasn't talking about Irish League, I was talking about Setanta, so I still don't get your point?

I was talking about Linfield being able to compete with better calibre of teams thats why I mentioned teh Setanta cup.

[Steve Bruce]

I'm saying that based on current evidence and past results at that level you have no bases for being so optimistic/cocky!

Prove me wrong. You don't break Europe overnight though!

We got through to the 2nd round 2 seasons ago. Last season we played the VERY TOP seed and where unfortunate to lose.

So yeah, we haven't lit up Europe in recent times, but we are moving towards the right direction.

SO that is why I am optimistic. Not cocky, I do not expect to go through, I hope and optimistic we will.

[Dodge]

Do Derry, yourselves, St Pats etc etc play UCD?

I wasn't talking about Irish League, I was talking about Setanta, so I still don't get your point?

I was talking about Linfield being able to compete with better calibre of teams thats why I mentioned teh Setanta cup.

UCD are miles better than Dungannon, and are nowhere near European qualification, so your point doesn't really make sense

[Steve Bruce]

UCD are miles better than Dungannon, and are nowhere near European qualification, so your point doesn't really make sense

This is what I laugh at. How could you possibly make that assertation?

Going by this site, you would think if we had a 16 team league on this island, it would be full of LOI teams and maybe Linfield.

I bow down to your superiority, Man Utd, Chelsea and the rest of the Premiership watch out, UCD is about:rolleyes:

[Dodge]

YOu seem to forget that Pats have played Dungannon twice already this season, and at a time when Dungannon were in good form. They were one of the worst sides I've ever seen Pats play.

UCD, on the other hand, are a strong decent team.

UCD are one of the top 6/7 sides in the LOI, and IMO are better than Dungannon. I didn't sya naything else about the relevent strengths of the leagues so get down off your high horse and stop making out like everyone is out to dismiss you.

[Flexy]

We got through to the 2nd round 2 seasons ago. Last season we played the VERY TOP seed and where unfortunate to lose.

So yeah, we haven't lit up Europe in recent times, but we are moving towards the right direction.

SO that is why I am optimistic. Not cocky, I do not expect to go through, I hope and optimistic we will.
I do hope Linfield get a good draw this time, eg the teams from Finland, Iceland and Cyprus are all beatable and much cheaper and easier to get to for everyone. Even though we play in two different leagues I hope they get through as do Derry. Even though we all have our differences who's better etc, we should be cheering on our friends from either leagues. I myself would rather see Linfield do well as a derry fan, than Tampere or Tampax United from Finland.