Bigger 'Love Ulster' parade planned for Dublin...

[rebelarmyexile]

I thought we (Southerners) are meant to be tolerant. For ****s sake we allowed a Gay parade down O'Connell Street, and thats alot worse than a few bands and union jacks.

Tho if republicans want to show themselves up yet again, i wont stop them.

It is Republicans who are to blame for the fears and worries over this march, the Northerners coming down are the families and friends of Victims if the Republican Movement. Their Grief is our Shame.

[cheifo]

[QUOTE=rebelarmyexile;712364]I thought we (Southerners) are meant to be tolerant. For ****s sake we allowed a Gay parade down O'Connell Street, and thats alot worse than a few bands and union jacks.

You should join the DUP.You seem like you would be right at home.

[gilberto_eire]

I thought we (Southerners) are meant to be tolerant. For ****s sake we allowed a Gay parade down O'Connell Street, and thats alot worse than a few bands and union jacks.

Tho if republicans want to show themselves up yet again, i wont stop them.

It is Republicans who are to blame for the fears and worries over this march, the Northerners coming down are the families and friends of Victims if the Republican Movement. Their Grief is our Shame.

ya well then let them march in there own ''country''.... you dont see republicans going over to england frm the north to have a march in london do ya??(ooohh and i remember i saw a documentary frm panoroma on BBC about chelsea headhunters and how a few orchestrated an attack on a bloodly sunday parade, typical!!)
so what if a few gays walked down there....there the most harmless bunch of society and are irish arent they?, only seperated frm the rest of us like ppl say in wheelchairs...irish 100% just expressing there differant life...... cant believe you'd compare homo's with ''love ulster'' marchers who shouldnt even be on this island anyway!!.

[reder]

It is Republicans who are to blame for the fears and worries over this march, the Northerners coming down are the families and friends of Victims if the Republican Movement. Their Grief is our Shame.

Excellent sentiment.

[OneRedArmy]

ya well then let them march in there own ''country''.... you dont see republicans going over to england frm the north to have a march in london do ya??(ooohh and i remember i saw a documentary frm panoroma on BBC about chelsea headhunters and how a few orchestrated an attack on a bloodly sunday parade, typical!!)
so what if a few gays walked down there....there the most harmless bunch of society and are irish arent they?, only seperated frm the rest of us like ppl say in wheelchairs...irish 100% just expressing there differant life...... cant believe you'd compare homo's with ''love ulster'' marchers who shouldnt even be on this island anyway!!.If there is a ridiculous post of the month you've got it sewn up......Jesus H Christ :rolleyes:

[mypost]

For ****s sake we allowed a Gay parade down O'Connell Street, and thats alot worse than a few bands and union jacks.

:D :D :D

[bennocelt]

I thought we (Southerners) are meant to be tolerant. For ****s sake we allowed a Gay parade down O'Connell Street, and thats alot worse than a few bands and union jacks.

Tho if republicans want to show themselves up yet again, i wont stop them.

It is Republicans who are to blame for the fears and worries over this march, the Northerners coming down are the families and friends of Victims if the Republican Movement. Their Grief is our Shame.

Shame? for you maybe, but then you do live in Clontarf so you are in the thick of it all:rolleyes:

By the way....did any of ye guys see Wayne Maccullogh in the Shankill last night, looked like a decent enough place to visit, going down all those dark alleys though made me wonder how many catholics were beaten there, still it was interesting to see the other side and how they live

[rebelarmyexile]

''love ulster'' marchers who shouldnt even be on this island anyway!!.

Well thats a charming point of view. do you hate protestants asweel? do they not belong here? what about immigrants? should they be allowed here

[pete]

interesting that its mostly non-Dubs defending the UDA's right to march in Dublin..... :(


Location: Dublin 7

I live in Dublin... :o

Day Tripper thugs saw last year as an excuse to riot & get steal some runners. If they only rioted to stop the Love Ulster parade why then did they vandalise random property & steal from shops? :rolleyes:

I believe it is wrong to allow such an insignificant minority dictate to the other 99.9% of the Nation.

[jebus]

For ****s sake we allowed a Gay parade down O'Connell Street, and thats alot worse than a few bands and union jacks.

How's that a lot worse? I'll refrain from calling you names as it would only get me in trouble

[Lionel Ritchie]

I thought we (Southerners) are meant to be tolerant. For ****s sake we allowed a Gay parade down O'Connell Street, and thats alot worse than a few bands and union jacks.

Tho if republicans want to show themselves up yet again, i wont stop them.

It is Republicans who are to blame for the fears and worries over this march, the Northerners coming down are the families and friends of Victims if the Republican Movement. Their Grief is our Shame.

Can I first of all say I find the "wrap the green flag round me boys" sentiment that Mypost and a few others here are indulging nonsensical.

BUT -and perhaps this is one of the downsides of the controversy around "the parade" rather than those parading - Love Ulster is sadly and quite sinisterly far beyond the families and friends of Victims if the Republican Movement. I would robustly challenge the notion of their grief being our shame ...or at least any more shame than any other actual victim of the troubles. There are no nationalists in Love Ulster and no Nationalist victims of any Loyalist, Republican or State sponsored violence commemorated by them. They are highly equivocal on the issue of who deserves victim status and who, to be vulgar about it, "got what they'd coming to them." In the latter category they'll happily cast a wide net to include such vagaries as "known republican sympathisers" for example. Known to whom? ...and on what damning evidence? It's a position that's not a million miles from "any Taig'll do" when applied.

I believe William Frazer (who is a nutjob and a damaged nutjob at that who the Northern authorites have repeatedly seen fit to deny access to licenced firearms) SHOULD be allowed march in Dublin, though I don't buy the entire "right to march" concept as advanced by those of the Orange persuasion generally for example.

He should be allowed to march exactly because Loyalty, or in his case lack of loyalty (even outright hostility) to this state should not preclude the right to peaceful freedom of assembly. Note the word peaceful now ...because there are those, some on here, who think this great little country and it's wonderful flag need defending from people who think differently to the point where they'll rip the sh1t out of our capital city and attack the law enforcemnt agencies of the state, the press and innocent bystanders and go on a wave of destruction and looting to show us what great Uber-Gaels they are.

By the way your comments on Homosexuals -made as they were in the 21st Century - are pretty disgusting.

[mypost]

If they only rioted to stop the Love Ulster parade why then did they vandalise random property & steal from shops? :rolleyes:

I believe it is wrong to allow such an insignificant minority dictate to the other 99.9% of the Nation.

Vandalism is part and parcel of all riots, be it in Ireland or Indonesia.

On the contrary, 99.99% of the nation don't want them to march here. It's the insignificant minority that do.

[OhNoYouDidn't]

I live in Dublin... :o

Day Tripper thugs saw last year as an excuse to riot & get steal some runners. If they only rioted to stop the Love Ulster parade why then did they vandalise random property & steal from shops? :rolleyes:

I believe it is wrong to allow such an insignificant minority dictate to the other 99.9% of the Nation.

nobody is defending rent a mob opportunists, but to say that 99.9% of the nation support the UVF marching in Dublin is a preposterous thing to say

[anto1208]

I think we allow them to have the march then the night before sneak in put up a load of banners and signs saying "FREE THE PEADO'S MARCH " here today . and run off sniggering .

Good old superhands ( Peep show fans will get the reference )

[pete]

nobody is defending rent a mob opportunists, but to say that 99.9% of the nation support the UVF marching in Dublin is a preposterous thing to say

Ok 99.9% is a bit much but its no more incorrect than it suggested above that 99.9% of people don't want them here.

Lets put it this way - 99.9% of people did not try to stop the march i.e. they ignored & got on with their life.

I know the organisers probably want trouble so they can tell everyone why a United Ireland not possible but do we have to fall for the bait?

[Bluebeard]

Excellent post Lionel Ritchie - fair and balanced, recognises the place of people with beliefs contrary to your own, doesn't resort to name calling, and addresses the point in hand, and no use of the word FACT! This is how our political discussion here should be conducted.

Might I suggest posting a copy to the Ceann Comhairle.



I believe it is wrong to allow such an insignificant minority dictate to the other 99.9% of the Nation.

Sound like this snippet should be included in the letter...

[OhNoYouDidn't]

Lets put it this way - 99.9% of people did not try to stop the march i.e. they ignored & got on with their life.



that logic reminds me of a bloke in work who announced that because 'only' 200,000 people marched against the Iraq war, 3.6m must support it. :rolleyes:

[rebelarmyexile]

As one of only two photographers authorised to travel on the buses and be within the FAIR Campaign marchers in Dublin last year, i can catagorically tell you there were Nationalists and Catholics involved. I was talking with an elderly gentleman (Catholic) and his wife who lost the son (RUC officer), another example was a whole family from the Falls road (all catholic) whose son was mistakenly killed by the PIRA as they thought he was a drug dealer.

The media and general public has put out this view that FAIR is a Loyalist ONLY Victims group, this is totally untrue.

Willie Frazer's work in the South Armagh region has been applauded by both sectors of societys. his assistance helped the psni and guardi nail spud murphy.

[OneRedArmy]

I think Lionel's post above is most representative of the average Irish persons views on FAIR, Love Ulster and the march.

A small minority will welcome and support it (like Rebelarmyexile) just as a small minority feel so strongly against it that they will protest or attack.

That leaves a huge swathe of people in the middle who don't support it but recognise modern Ireland is about people's rights to freedom of expression.

[OhNoYouDidn't]

As one of only two photographers authorised to travel on the buses and be within the FAIR Campaign marchers in Dublin last year, i can catagorically tell you there were Nationalists and Catholics involved. I was talking with an elderly gentleman (Catholic) and his wife who lost the son (RUC officer), another example was a whole family from the Falls road (all catholic) whose son was mistakenly killed by the PIRA as they thought he was a drug dealer.

The media and general public has put out this view that FAIR is a Loyalist ONLY Victims group, this is totally untrue.

Willie Frazer's work in the South Armagh region has been applauded by both sectors of societys. his assistance helped the psni and guardi nail spud murphy.

aaahhhh, so you are connected to the group.

Do FAIR commerate the victims of Loyalist or State violence? If not, why not?

Is/was Wille Frazer a member of the UVF?

[Erstwhile Bóz]

Day Tripper thugs saw last year as an excuse to riot & get steal some runners. If they only rioted to stop the Love Ulster parade why then did they vandalise random property & steal from shops? :rolleyes:
You're right. The cars that were burnt out on Nassau Street weren't targetted for having "Love Ulster" bumper stickers or even yellow regs.


I believe it is wrong to allow such an insignificant minority dictate to the other 99.9% of the Nation.
How do you mean? Do you mean that it would be wrong if the gardaí refused to give the go-ahead to the march if they believed that this insignificant minority would cause significant and uncontainable violence? That this would somehow constitute a victory for the types that want to cause aggro, and indeed be some kind of an affront to the other 99.9% of us? Are this 99.9% of people insinuated to be in favour of this march?

Decisions like that are made every day. I'm sure there's Rovers fans who'd love to pull a Willie, as it were, at Dalymount and sit down in the middle of the Jodi and just sing and support their team, but BEST would allow the probable actions of a minority to dictate to them whether they could let them sit there or not. Is that a victory for violence and an injustice on the 99.999999% of Irish people who won't be at that match or is it an example of the application of common sense based on a rational appraisal of the likely motives of the Rovers fans and an analysis of the probably adverse reaction of the Bohs fans? The analogy is incomplete of course.

Unfortunately, though, because of what happened last year, if you're of any kind of a rioting bent the concept of a second "Love Ulster" march coming to town is understood to be an opportunity to line up against the gardaí like the heroes of '06 (the Love Ulster people were not involved in any fighting), slumming it for an afternoon and pretending you're a misunderstood, oppressed and disenfranchised punk in a police state with no other way of expressing your frustration at being continually downtrodden by those cursed triumphalist Orangies.

In my gut I feel that they do have the right to march; in my heart I hope they march and are met with tumbleweeds and possibly an eighty-year-old man from Sandymount waving a union flag; in my head I don't see what letting them get their riot would accopmlish.

There is no way that this march can pass off peacefully now, after the precedent that was set last year by dint of a combination of factors. It is still unclear what exactly they're ostenisbly hoping to achieve ("we think the time is right just after the elections" :rolleyes:) except for to cause a major headache for the government, the gardaí, and the handwringing classes, and to create some kind of instability in the Six Counties.

I'm unsure as to whether it has definitely gotten the official nod from the gardaí, though. Has it?

[rebelarmyexile]

Willie Frazer was never a member of the UVF. His Father was in the RUC and was killed by the IRA, his brother was in the RUC and killed by the IRA. He has no involvement with any Loyalist Terrorist Factions.

Secondly i DO NOT support the march, i merely do not oppose it, they have every right to march in dublin or anywhere. The orange order and Loyalism is an aspect of Irish (anglo-irish) culture and just like Republicanism deserves respect. I am not a Loyalist, but i am anti-republican.

Finally, i have no connection with the FAIR group, i was merely covering it for a London Paper.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

As one of only two photographers authorised to travel on the buses and be within the FAIR Campaign marchers in Dublin last year,...
Can you describe their reactions when the march was cancelled and they had to return north? (Expressing as few homophobic sentiments as possible, mind you.)

[rebelarmyexile]

Can you describe their reactions when the march was cancelled and they had to return north? (Expressing as few homophobic sentiments as possible, mind you.)


Most people were pretty scared, by the time rioting started the police recommended that elderly marchers and children get back on to the buses, while towards the end it was only the bands the politicians, and police left on parnell square.

If Dublin people simply attempted to go up and interact with out northern Loyalist neighbours, there would be far less hatred.

[OhNoYouDidn't]

If Dublin people simply attempted to go up and interact with out northern Loyalist neighbours, there would be far less hatred.

ffs will you spare us :rolleyes: you are either phenominally naive about their motives or have an agenda. or i suspect, bith.

if they didnt commerate the murderer of 33 people across the road, maybe they might meet less hostility.

[mypost]

The orange order and Loyalism is an aspect of Irish (anglo-irish) culture and just like Republicanism deserves respect.

It is nothing to do with Irish culture.

I'm not going into "who lost what before" debate, I am against this march taking place in Dublin, or anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

If Dublin people simply attempted to go up and interact with out northern Loyalist neighbours, there would be far less hatred.
How do you know they wouldn't have attempted so to do, had the march gone ahead and were it not for the rioters confronting the police? As one of the Dublin people myself I know you can't possibly intend the term to be limited to the rioting thugs.

The only chance this thing ever had of going off peacefully was that day last year, if the tiny protest hadn't have been joined by the afternoon drunks. I had no notion that they had anything to do with any Dublin/Monaghan bomber or any clue that Willie Frazer was involved at all. I just heard "loyalist bands", "Love Ulster" and thought it was a comical idea and hoped we wouldn't be embarrassed.

No chance of it now. Every anti-Protestant knuckle-dragging West-Belfast underclass wannabe has a list of objections as long as your arm this time around to justify a day out fighting the guards for the cause.

[OhNoYouDidn't]

No chance of it now. Every anti-Protestant knuckle-dragging West-Belfast underclass wannabe has a list of objections as long as your arm this time around to justify a day out fighting the guards for the cause.

are people that hoplessly lost in this debate that they think thats a factor? :eek:

[osarusan]

is it not possible for the gardai to see this pass off peacefully? Would a few thousand police (even army) be able to do that?

[jebus]

is it not possible for the gardai to see this pass off peacefully? Would a few thousand police (even army) be able to do that?

To be honest if you need to call a few thousand Gardai in, or the Army, for a simple thing like a parade, should that not show you that its not worthwhile? I mean its hardly a celebration, or a remembrance to walk down a street flanked by people with machine guns is it?

[osarusan]

To be honest if you need to call a few thousand Gardai in, or the Army, for a simple thing like a parade, should that not show you that its not worthwhile? I mean its hardly a celebration, or a remembrance to walk down a street flanked by people with machine guns is it?

Not worthwhile based on what criteria?

I'm not talking about this case in particular, but just because something is unpopular enough to require a strong police presence, this does not make it not worthwhile.

[crc]

The orange order and Loyalism is an aspect of Irish (anglo-irish) culture and just like Republicanism deserves respect.
Well said rebelarmyexile.


It is nothing to do with Irish culture
Yes it does. And a clue to the reason why lies in the final part of your statement:


...I am against this march taking place in Dublin, or anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland. Why do you specify only the Republic of Ireland, why not all of it?

Check out the new and improved Articles 2 & 3 (http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/static/256.htm):
"It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions..."

[jebus]

Not worthwhile based on what criteria?

I'm not talking about this case in particular, but just because something is unpopular enough to require a strong police presence, this does not make it not worthwhile.

Not in essence, it has to be taken on a case to case basis. Marching in favour of discrimination against homosexuals in Moscow with an army presence is worthwhile, marching in favour of Osama Bin Laden through New York with an army presence isn't.

I would put this Love Ulster parade in the Osama category, although obviously not as hate provoking as that march would be, it still is designed to enflame tensions that are simmering in quite a few people, and nothing else

[osarusan]

Not in essence, it has to be taken on a case to case basis.

Agreed, which is why I said this (the bit in bold)

but just because something is unpopular enough to require a strong police presence, this does not make it not worthwhile.
In other words, unpopularity itself, regardless of the cause, is not enough by itself to justify stopping the march/parade.



Regarding the second part of your post, is this what you meant to say?

Marching in favour of discrimination against homosexuals in Moscow with an army presence is worthwhile

[Erstwhile Bóz]

are people that hoplessly lost in this debate that they think thats a factor? :eek:
It is for some, for definite. Not in a deep-rooted theological sense, but rather one of copycat bigotry.

[Block G Raptor]

couple dozen Dublin scumbags who will go along for the looting.

Funny that. seem to remember of the 13 arrests made for looting on the day 5 were latvian , 2 lithuanians and a romainian

[bennocelt]

As one of only two photographers authorised to travel on the buses and be within the FAIR Campaign marchers in Dublin last year, i can catagorically tell you there were Nationalists and Catholics involved. I was talking with an elderly gentleman (Catholic) and his wife who lost the son (RUC officer), another example was a whole family from the Falls road (all catholic) whose son was mistakenly killed by the PIRA as they thought he was a drug dealer.

The media and general public has put out this view that FAIR is a Loyalist ONLY Victims group, this is totally untrue.

Willie Frazer's work in the South Armagh region has been applauded by both sectors of societys. his assistance helped the psni and guardi nail spud murphy.

cat out of the bag now;)

[bennocelt]

I just heard "loyalist bands", "Love Ulster" and thought it was a comical idea and hoped we wouldn't be embarrassed.

No chance of it now. Every anti-Protestant knuckle-dragging West-Belfast underclass wannabe has a list of objections as long as your arm this time around to justify a day out fighting the guards for the cause.

oh yeah, embarrassed...........god what would the neighbours think!:rolleyes:

im not anti- protestant, couldnt give a flying feck about religion, but i def wouldnt like to see some anti-irish fools lord it down our capital, and i cant see why the hell any normal person would.

[reder]

Why is it ok for republican marches to take place in Dublin city centre, largely made up of supporters/friends or even people who took part in terrorist activities on this island, killing just as many nationalist/catholics as unionists/loyalist?

Are these marches ok cos they are "pro-irish" and is the love ulster march not ok cos it percieved as "anti-irish".

PS: How is it anti-irish?

[BohsPartisan]

Why is it ok for republican marches to take place in Dublin city centre, largely made up of supporters/friends or even people who took part in terrorist activities on this island, killing just as many nationalist/catholics as unionists/loyalist?

Because they are not marching down the streets of the relatives of their victims? I'm no supporter of republicanism and I'm not strongly opposed to the march but I can see that distinction.

[reder]

Because they are not marching down the streets of the relatives of their victims?

What, republican terrorists never killed, maimed or harmed anyone from southern Ireland?

[BohsPartisan]

What, republican terrorists never killed, maimed or harmed anyone from southern Ireland?

I'm not apologising and not supporting them but you're not comparing like with like. The Love Ulster parade really serves no purpose other than to antagonise. Are they protesting something that they wish to change? If so I can't see it. If the republican bombing campaign was ongoing and the Irish state was complicit in this then they would be justified in marching for an end to the campaign, end of collusion etc. However this is to "commemorate" the victims of Republican violence. Why have a commemoration in hostile territory if your aim is not to antagonise. In fairness to the chuckys they don't go holding their commemorations in loyalist areas.
The over-riding problem here is that these people are commemorating the victims of one community. Why not hold a commemoration for all victims of sectarian violence where both sides could join in? If there was no sectarian motive in the march then this would be the obvious course to take.

[bennocelt]

PS: How is it anti-irish?

duh dont know!:rolleyes:

[OhNoYouDidn't]

Are these marches ok cos they are "pro-irish" and is the love ulster march not ok cos it percieved as "anti-irish".

PS: How is it anti-irish?

They are marching with banners and flute bands of the UDA and UVF. These organisations declared war on the state that love ulster are demanding protection from. The UDA are as 'anti-irish' (in one sense) as they come.

They plan to lay a wreath to the memory of the UVF commander, later shot by the IRA, who killed 33 people accross the street, but not the people he killed. Its not a genuine commeration for the victims. If it was, there would be no need for 'kick the pope' bands and orange and loyalist paramilitary input.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

What, republican terrorists never killed, maimed or harmed anyone from southern Ireland?
What is your obsession with Munster and sub-Dublinian Leinster?

[reder]

They are marching with banners and flute bands of the UDA and UVF.

Do republican marches not have various IRA/republican terrorist aspects to them.

PS: Please note that I consider both sets of people to be equally sad and pathetic.

[OhNoYouDidn't]

Do republican marches not have various IRA/republican terrorist aspects to them.




and the last time the IRA commerated at the site of one of their atrocities is? or more specifically commerated the bomber himself?

[Jerry The Saint]

If Dublin people simply attempted to go up and interact with our northern Loyalist neighbours, there would be far less hatred.

I agree... as long as it's only Dublin men interacting with Loyalist ladies and vice versa. I'm sure you would be apalled if this suggestion led to sordid man-on-man interaction. :eek:

[OwlsFan]

We should also have a "Love Leinster and Munster" marches in memory of all those murdered and dispossed by Cromwell and his cohorts who had the slogan "To hell or to Connaught" for the local Irish population that is if we want to keep digging up the past.

[Bluebeard]

We should also have a "Love Leinster and Munster" marches in memory of all those murdered and dispossed by Cromwell and his cohorts who had the slogan "To hell or to Connaught" for the local Irish population that is if we want to keep digging up the past.

Can't see anyone ever wanting a "Love Connaught" march. It would hardly be a parade if it did happen.