Sale of Tolka

[Schumi]

As far as I'm concerned, he can call it a director's loan, he can call it a charitable donation from the Garret Kelleher Foundation for the Advancement of St. Pats, he can call it whatever the hell he wants that's legal once we get the use of it.I'm also not an accountant but if he calls it a director's loan, can he not look for it to be repaid at some point in the future? Even if it's a Bertie-esque loan, he'd still be able to ask for his money back, surely.

[dublinred]

I don't know one fan who doesn't think Richmond Park is a proper football ground with charachter. its not fancy but it has something Tolka will never have.

Other grounds like this include United Park, The Showgrounds, St Mels, Dalymount

Don't know about the long term future of Richmond but Mels is gone , United park and dalymount are going soon but thankfully due to a bit of hindsight in the sixties the showgrounds was put in trust and will there forever and can never be sold or borrowed against.

[Dodge]

AFAIK it won't be in as Directors loan.

If anyway seen the the make up of our new board, its packed with corporate analysts, accountants, solicitors and other financial boffins. I'm sure they'll find a way of making everything beneficial to everyone

[Bald Student]

Propped up by my Tax Euro's ye spongers! :mad:
:DHave the Bohs cleared the revenue debt yet? Otherwise you'll have to put that claim on hold.

[TonyD]

Drumrock Robourne.

Shambourne ;)

[TonyD]

which leaves the best run club in the Premier Division last season UCD.
The only Dublin club that lived within it's budget CONSISTENTLY :D

Well done you. (Shame they don't award points for how well your books are kept):p

[sonofstan]

a way of making everything beneficial to everyone

that's pretty much like 'everything louder than everything else' isn't it?

[Schumi]

Well done you. (Shame they don't award points for how well your books are kept):pThey do. Just ask Galway.

[John83]

Well done you. (Shame they don't award points for how well your books are kept):p
They did last year. We came second, remember? :p

EDIT: Schumi, you joke-thieving ********!

[Jerry The Saint]

They did last year. We came second, remember? :p

EDIT: Schumi, you joke-thieving ********!

To be fair, John Delaney came up with that joke long before either of you two.

[John83]

To be fair, John Delaney came up with that joke long before either of you two.
True. To paraphrase Yakov Smirnoff, in Soviet Ireland, Football Association mocks you.

[Jerry The Saint]

True. To paraphrase Yakov Smirnoff, in Soviet Ireland, Football Association mocks you.

What a country!

[DecBoh]

Have the Bohs cleared the revenue debt yet? Otherwise you'll have to put that claim on hold.

Not fully but we are continuing to meet our agreed payment schedule to Revenue

[passerrby]

If anyway seen the the make up of our new board, its packed with corporate analysts, accountants, solicitors and other financial boffins. I'm sure they'll find a way of making everything beneficial to everyone

so was enron

[John83]

so was enron
And when Pats take over the ESB, I might get worried.

[Dodge]

You can't keep any secrets in this league!

[passerrby]

And when Pats take over the ESB, I might get worried.

well you could generate a lot of heat from manure

[Dodge]

Tried that. Doens't work. Setanta are trying it at the moment

[pineapple stu]

If anyway seen the the make up of our new board, its packed with corporate analysts, accountants, solicitors and other financial boffins. I'm sure they'll find a way of making everything beneficial to everyone
How much are these people getting paid, by the way? Are they full time?

Your comment that your backer has loads of money sounds an awful lot like Drogs fans' comments about their backers, who are now talking publicly about the wells drying up.

Pat's do have the advantage that the money is being put in as share capital and not as directors' loans (Drogs) or sale of ground (Shels), but I'm just naturally cynical about a property developer taking over a club, promising to turn it into a European force, buying a load of property immediately around the ground (I think?) and losing a million a year. The league has been here before.

[Saint MacDara]

You're right to be cynical about property developers as alot of them are hawks but Kelleher aint one of them.Everyone agrees that the league needs investment so we cant treat every single investor as a villain.I suppose it all comes down to trust and he and the board seem genuine.
It's a pity we call cant have a state funded university to finance our beloved clubs but that's the way thngs are!

[pineapple stu]

What club is bankrolled by a state funded college?

[Dodge]

How much are these people getting paid, by the way? Are they full time?
No, they're a board of directors. All bar Sadlier have very succesful careers elsewhere



Your comment that your backer has loads of money sounds an awful lot like Drogs fans' comments about their backers, who are now talking publicly about the wells drying up.
As acknowledged earlier



The league has been here before.
Not like this, not with these credentials, and not with the motives he has.

As I've said elsewhere its up to you whether you belive it or not

[pineapple stu]

No, they're a board of directors. All bar Sadlier have very succesful careers elsewhere
Are they getting paid anything?



As I've said elsewhere its up to you whether you belive it or not
This is true. Let's see how it pans out.

[Dodge]

Are they getting paid anything?


Dunno. They are all either paid, or kept on retainers by the boss man for other reasons

[John83]

In fairness Stu, it does seem to be slightly different to Drogheda, in that Drogheda have been building up debt to their directors, while Pats appear to be just badly placed if their money man suddenly pulls out. Let's wait and see a bit longer before we start crying wolf.

[Bald Student]

Let's wait and see a bit longer before we start crying wolf.In that story the boy cried wolf a few times when there was no wolf and then the villagers didn't believe him the one time there was one.

So far, evert time Stu has cried wolf there has been one. This is the exact opposite of the story.

[Dodge]

So its when Stu says nothing I should be worried?

[Steve Bruce]

So its when Stu says nothing I should be worried?

Re-read what he said. He is saying, when he DOES cry wolf, there normally is one.

If he doesn't then you dont have to worry.

[Dodge]

Yeah it might take a while to get used to my humour Steve ;)

And for the record in the other cases, far more people than stu have been crying wolf...

[John83]

In that story the boy cried wolf a few times when there was no wolf and then the villagers didn't believe him the one time there was one.

So far, evert time Stu has cried wolf there has been one. This is the exact opposite of the story.
Agreed, and I pay attention when he points out trouble on the horizon, but Pats seem better off than the teams he's comparing them to, and we don't have as much information either because of the change of ownership. All I'm saying is that it seems a little premature to get very worked up about Pats.

[Bald Student]

All I'm saying is that it seems a little premature to get very worked up about Pats.I'll agree but I've heard before the story about the property developer buying into a club saying "I plan to make this club the biggest in ireland with european success etc etc but first I must secure full ownership of all the land that I don't plan to sell.".

It's possible that this fella is the real deal but I'm keeping my skeptical hat on for the moment.

[Dodge]

He's far too big to go to this much trouble to make money on Richmond Park. Why would he bother when he's messing about with €12 Billion with the Chicago Spire. A notoriously private man, he has too much prestige to lose by ****ing off a few thousand football fans

[bohs til i die]

I know very few people like shels on this forum, But i think it is a shame on how such a great side has been decimated. I know it is their own doing, but they truely where a great side if where on their day, no one on this island could have lived with them.


The only really they had a great side was down to the overspending, overspending which forced wage demands of players to go up and up across the entire league

[pineapple stu]

In fairness Stu, it does seem to be slightly different to Drogheda, in that Drogheda have been building up debt to their directors, while Pats appear to be just badly placed if their money man suddenly pulls out. Let's wait and see a bit longer before we start crying wolf.
Another issue to consider is what happens if he does pull out? They're totally dependent on him. Say he pulls out at the end of the season, and Pat's have players on two years contracts. They're screwed. They can't cancel those contracts, and wouuld run up a huge loss in the following season, which would mean they'd (a) have to cut back to a break even budget, a massive drop in itself and (b) have to cut back further to pay off the debts incurred in the first year when they couldn't cut back. It's still a problem.

[John83]

...It's still a problem.
We're agreed on this.

[kdjaC]

I'll agree but I've heard before the story about the property developer buying into a club saying "I plan to make this club the biggest in ireland with european success etc etc but first I must secure full ownership of all the land that I don't plan to sell.".




If you had a Kabillion euro and wanted to turn an irish team into a european success story, what would you do?

Get in an ex-international manager and most succesful underage manager to run the club from a footballing pov.

Buy land in catchment area for use as said academy.

Put together a partnership with international marketting company with an aim to create a brandname in a foreign country.

Put together a board with business and football people.

Improve stadium, and provide amenities for the local area.

If he wanted the land only he really didnt need to do any of the above. Honestly if he did sell the ground move us to tallaght he wouldnt be a very good business man having spent money on the above.


kdjac

[TonyD]

If he wanted the land only he really didnt need to do any of the above.
kdjac

Exactly. He could probably have chucked a couple of Mil at the previous Board to buy them out, made some vaugue promises about building the club, etc, etc,(while finding excuses why no actual work was being done)putting his dastardy plan in place behind the scenes, if that was his agenda. Everything he's actually done has indicated that he is serious. He didn't waste much time in getting the diggers in and starting work behind the goal,for example. The fact that Brian Kerr is on board is also something a lot of the sceptics aren't factoring in, which is another thing Kelleher didn't need to do. So what do you sceptics think Kerr is at ? There are 3 possibilities as I see it:

a) Kerr is in on a major scam being perpetrated on the Pats fans - anyone think this is likely ?
b) Kerr has been hoodwinked by Kelleher. Possible, I suppose, it would surprise me though.
c) Kelleher is the genuine article. Yet to be proven, I know. But it does look good from where I'm standing.

Frankly, I wish he hadn't said all the stufff about Europe. That is the kind of guff we've heard too often in the past. I'll be happy if he can make Pats the No 1 club in Ireland. Than let's take it from there.

[pineapple stu]

If he wanted the land only he really didnt need to do any of the above.
Yeah, to be honest, that's the only thing stopping me from changing my sig to include youz lot. ;) It's the only bit that doesn't add up to him screwing the club at some stage, to be honest. The new stand is the main bit in that.

[kdjaC]

Yeah, to be honest, that's the only thing stopping me from changing my sig to include youz lot. ;) It's the only bit that doesn't add up to him screwing the club at some stage, to be honest. The new stand is the main bit in that.

There is a lot more going on than most people realise as i posted on pats board, usually foot.ie is a haven for knowledge on everyone elses club (love that tbh) but noone here has realised what this lad is doing or has info on his land purchases or who his main associates are (Drury etc)in the pats thing.

If he does what he says he will do then we will leave Richmond, i have no doubts about that but not for a land deal.


kdjac

[pineapple stu]

What about Pat's for Richmond?

[kdjaC]

What about Pat's for Richmond?


IE "if he does what he says"

<madness?> Special K envisages Pats in the Champions League group stage as a longterm thing</madness?>

Continuing the madness reasoning....

As a student of something how do you think Richmond/Inchicore would cope with a Champions League group match? Possible?


kdjac

[pineapple stu]

Ah, OK. We're in fantasy land, so.

I'm not a student, by the way.

[kdjaC]

Ah, OK. We're in fantasy land, so.

I'm not a student, by the way.

A fantasy land that has Pats with a new stand/pub/board/450k sponsorship/owner worth 500million.

Its madness tbh.


kdjac

[pineapple stu]

Pat's won't be getting to the CL group stages any time soon.

[kdjaC]

Pat's won't be getting to the CL group stages any time soon.

No EL team in its present form will get to the CL, the CL is for the big clubs only.
What will get you to the CL is money and lots of it, EL teams will be lucky with 1st round UEFA football for next few years. But what is happening with Pats is what all EL fans have always wanted someone with money to burn and ambition/plan to to not lose much whichever way it goes.

I reckon he will make more money out of Pats than he puts in (within 5 years), atm hes 14 million or so down(btw for sceptics the ground is worth 12 at current market value)


kdjac

[pineapple stu]

Do you have any idea how much you sound like a Shels fan circa 2002?

You've been embarrassed over your understanding of company accounts; don't go down the same route of embarrassing yourself about the possibility of getting into the group stages of the Champions' League.

[kdjaC]

Do you have any idea how much you sound like a Shels fan circa 2002?

You've been embarrassed over your understanding of company accounts; don't go down the same route of embarrassing yourself about the possibility of getting into the group stages of the Champions' League.

Thought Nightdub answered that one about the accounts? I have no belief that we will get to the CL group stages. What our owner believes is otherwise, what you actually read is ehh even more otherwise. What is embarrassing (but suppose your not a student) is your inability to read and understand posts.

So to break it down for simple(non student reading) reading.

Pats new owner worth 500 million.
Pats new owner doesnt need to win anything to pay players.
Pats new owner has paid/put in more than grounds value.
Pats new owner a successful business man.
Pats are top of the league playing good football.
Pats new owner appointed God as Director.
Pats fans are very very happy at the moment (well maybe not the ones who think we will win league).
Pats new owner bought land that confirms his initial plans for Richmond.
Pats new owner has also bought land and converted its zoning to recreational/amenity from residential at a great loss with a view to being an academy.


Please point out where in the above i sound like a shels fan? Also bear in mind when all Pats fans left lansdowne last december we were 99.9% convinced we were going to be in tallaght asap.

Theres condescending and theres not actually reading posts and making assumptions....................


kdjac

[Dodge]

Just for the record he hasn't spent 14 million yet.

And nobody thinks we'll be in the champions league

Oh and he's worth more than €500 million

[Dr.Nightdub]

Stu, as I said earlier, your reservations were well-founded based on the financial situation pre-Special K. But what's encouraging is that what's actually happening now, in terms of laying foundations for the future (pun intended) seems to fit with the intentions he's expressed.

Someone asked about Pats for Richmond...we haven't gone away you know. But there doesn't seem a lot of sense campaigning against someone who so far appears to be doing exactly what we'd like to see done.

Going back to the world of high finance, I'd imagine our annual accounts are going to look VERY different from now on to what they were before.

Wikipedia (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debenture) says:

"In finance, a debenture is a long-term debt instrument used by governments and large companies to obtain funds. A debenture is usually unsecured in the sense that there are no liens or pledges on specific assets. It is however, secured by all properties not otherwise pledged.The advantage of debentures to the issuer is they leave specific assets unencumbered, and thereby leave them open for subsequent financing.

In the United Kingdom debentures have frequently been used as a mechanism for raising funds to build or finance sports or leisure venues...blah blah blah...Other stadia financed through the issue of debentures include Millennium Stadium, Wembley Stadium, Arsenal, Twickenham Stadium and Trent Bridge in Nottingham."

We've just issued one of those for €10.1 million. To me, that sounds like someone's intent on doing something serious with Richmond and the surrounding bits of land he's either since acquired or is aiming to acquire. Could be for apartments, could be for a snazzy stadium plus academy plus all the rest. As we keep saying, we'll have to wait and see. I like the sound of the last sentence in the Wiki quote though.