Alex Bruce (and other general debate)

[eirebhoy]

I'll take that eirebhoy no problem. I'll send you my account details.

It'll be either Keogh, Knightly, Matt Murray or someone new they get.
So how much, it's your choice? :)

[youngirish]

So how much, it's your choice? :)

Say a score. I could be dead this time next year. How can we pay? I like to remain anonymonous so I can continue to stay one step ahead of my numerous enemies on these boards. Like Batman.

[eirebhoy]

OK, done deal.

[youngirish]

OK, done deal.

That's sterling btw not euro (I've said too much already).

[Sligo Hornet]

[QUOTE=(I've said too much already).[/QUOTE]

Aint that the truth!!!:D

[OwlsFan]

I'll learn to use me feet. A trick Alex Bruce needs to be taught.

The Christy Brown of Irish fans or more likely end up with your foot in your mouth :rolleyes:?

As I said before, Alex Bruce isn't much of a player and you don't need to be Einstein to deduce that but he doesn't deserve the sort of abuse you're handing (an expert at handing by your own admission) out.

[youngirish]

The Christy Brown of Irish fans or more likely end up with your foot in your mouth :rolleyes:?

As I said before, Alex Bruce isn't much of a player and you don't need to be Einstein to deduce that but he doesn't deserve the sort of abuse you're handing (an expert at handing by your own admission) out.

Get off your high horse Owlsfan, he doesn't read these forums so what he won't know doesn't hurt. He reads foot.co.uk instead. Anyway Glenn Whelan has been more impressive than Darren Potter in the Championship and he wasn't even in the squad so you should at least see my point in stating the obvious that he's not great.

[as_i_say]

You're all getting worked up over nothing. It was a meaningless friendly. Alex Bruce is poor. He's playing for a mid table championship team (same one as garvan btw-does he really deserve a look?) and thats his level. If even one player of those new caps comes through to play regularly for us it will be a bonus.

remember mccarthys us cup teams-liam daish, alan moore, dominic foley etc etc. usless.

As regards bruce whoever said paul butler of the squad-spot on. he wont be back dont worry.

[eirebhoy]

youngirish - You always go on about players needing to be playing at the highest level to be truely judged. Here's a quote form Arsene Wenger on 16 year old Carlos Vela:


"He's top class," I like his intelligence and his pace. He scores goals but he can also create them."

"He's a special talent and I believe 100 per cent that he will make it at the highest level."
That's a brave statement.

I said before if you have the intelligence, technical ability and a good attitude then you're already a player. Potter showed his good range of passing last night and he obviously has a very good football brain. You don't play the holding role at a decent level at 22 without a good football brain. I'd make a judgement on Potter on last nights match alone. He has a very good future imo. Paul McShane has a fantastic future and Stokes will be a very good striker imo. If they have the intelligence then it's so much easier to judge them. I certainly wouldn't write a player off after seeing him just a few times though. You couldn't have seen too much of Potter and Bruce.

[John83]

Isn't this forum moderated? I thought there might be some insight here, instead of petty bitching. Silly me.

[OwlsFan]

Do we then condemn Andy Keogh on the basis of one bad performance at international level?

One game is not enough to judge anyone, albeit I have seen Bruce play quite a bit in the Championship and Division One and don't rate him.

[youngirish]

Isn't this forum moderated? I thought there might be some insight here, instead of petty bitching. Silly me.
Teacher's pet.


Do we then condemn Andy Keogh on the basis of one bad performance at international level?

One game is not enough to judge anyone, albeit I have seen Bruce play quite a bit in the Championship and Division One and don't rate him.
Exactly. The man talks sense. Everyone hyping Potter up after 1 good game but no one is saying Long or Keogh are rubbish after 1 bad game. Some balance please.

[eirebhoy]

Exactly. The man talks sense. Everyone hyping Potter up after one good game but no one is saying Long or Keogh are rubbish after 1 bad game. Some balance please.
Well as I said in my previous post, I can tell that Potter has a good future on last nights performance alone. I wouldn't write a player off on 1 game though. I might be completely wrong on Potter but we'll have to see. :) btw, that doesn't mean I think that anyone that comes in and puts in a motm performance on his debut has a good future...

It's like that guy Jamie McCarthy. If he has the intelligence, technical ability and attitude he's supposed to have then he's pretty much a guaranteed success imo. Which is why teams are willing to pay £1m for him.

[youngirish]

One of the moderators is Eirebhoy who practices pro-active debate.

Eirebhoy make me a moderator if Potter is not the player of the season at Wolves next year. Go wan I've been posting on here for years.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

How many times have you seen Potter this season? He is not an average player. Similarly comparing him to Whelan is an unfair comparison as they play different roles - Potter plays deep, whereas Whelan is more attacking. As someone who has seen Potter play 20+ games this season I can say with certainty that he is has acquitted himself well and a rather more informed opinion of your criteria below would suggest that he is worthy of being in contention for future squads:

1. Performed well in previous Internationals - Man of the Match
2. Playing and starting regularly at the top level of football - He will after we get promoted next season
3. Performing well for their clubs - Has consistently played this season after being switched from Right Wing displacing Karl Henry (Wolves captain) as our defensive midfielder
4. If not playing at the top level then has to be good enough for the top level (Potter at present isn't IMO) - He is in mine and time will tell.

We are all entitled to our opinions, which makes this site so interesting, however disdainfully disregarding other people's considered views is always going to set you up for a fall, especially given little justification for your arguments.

[Jerry The Saint]

I like to remain anonymonous so I can continue to stay one step ahead of my numerous enemies on these boards. Like Batman.

Batman is your enemy:confused::eek:

[OneRedArmy]

Eirebhoy make me a moderator if Potter is not the player of the season at Wolves next year. Go wan I've been posting on here for years.Next month you'll have been posting "for years". For now its singular.

Continue with the meaningless discussion about meaningless players on a meaningless tour.......

[youngirish]

We are all entitled to our opinions, which makes this site so interesting, however disdainfully disregarding other people's considered views is always going to set you up for a fall, especially given little justification for your arguments.
I have yet to fall Manc Irish Wolf. Also Whelan has played a similar role for Wednesday as Potter for Wolves. I wouldn't say that Whelan was an attacking midfield player by any stretch.


Next month you'll have been posting "for years". For now its singular.

Continue with the meaningless discussion about meaningless players on a meaningless tour.......
Another man on his high horse. Let's only discuss full competitive International fixtures from now on. So that's one post each every 3 months.

[Dodge]

Another man on his hight horse. Let's only discuss full competitive International fixtures from now on. So that's one post each every 3 months.

hallelujah!!!!!!!

[MojoPin]

I'm nearly always right about young players (it's frighteningly accurate) as I don't just spout off after watching half a game unlike a few regulars on here. Listen and learn it could do you good.

plonker of the year ha ha

[youngirish]

plonker of the year ha ha

That was posted ages ago. Slow reader are you? You are a special person don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Special.

[EalingGreen]

This forum messes with me mind I'm off to ourweecountry.com. At least they make sense on there in a hateful, bigoted sort of way.


Jaysus, when someone suggested we have Alex Bruce*, I didn't think things could get any worse, then this happens! :D

Ah well, we're a "broad church", so let me welcome you over to OWC, in a hateful, bigoted sort of way. Then you'll learn what "messin with your mind" really means! ;)



* - Having seen Bruce play a couple of times, he wouldn't get into our team even after 25 withdrawals. (And I don't think we have 25 players in the first place!)

[youngirish]

* - Having seen Bruce play a couple of times, he wouldn't get into our team even after 25 withdrawals. (And I don't think we have 25 players in the first place!)
On that we can agree.

[Stuttgart88]

If Potter can do the job that Stan & Robson wanted O'Shea to do, but to do it without the carelessness then great.

O'Shea is let down in midfield by not having a central midfielder's instincts. Being able to take a pass under pressure, protect the ball and always know your out ball is much easier said than done. Hopefully this is what Potter brings to the table.

If he's good in the tackle, mobile and gives and takes simple passes then that's just what we need. Players like Stephen Ireland and Glenn Whelan are more creative with the ball. I think Whelan is a more deep lying playmaker type, Ireland a more advance playmaker type but both are different to Potter.

If Manc Wolf has seen Potter all year then I'm perfectly happy to trust his judgment. I've really only seen clips. He conceded possession carelessly at Selhurst Park when Wolves lost to Palace, costing them a goal, but other than that I haven't seen him do much wrong.

I'll look at the replay tonight with interest.

[John83]

Wolves pushed Potter deeper than he used to play, so it seems he's fairly flexible that way. I only saw the first half last night, but he seems to have a decent range of passing to his game. I doubt he's ready, but given how many of our central midfielders in the past have only really come good in their mid twenties, he's worth keeping on the back boiler.

[kev mcq]

So Potter's brilliant now he had one good half of a game? Who is quick to judge? I've been keeping an eye on him for about 4 years now unlike the 90 mins you probably have only ever seen him play. Look at the wolves forums if you think he's such a great talent for the fans opinions. I'll take their opinion over yours thank you very much as they've watched him all season and at best they think he's a fairly average player (in the Championship).

Are you a Liverpool reserves season ticket holder as well as Birmingham, Ipswich and Leicester season ticket holder? Busy man :eek: You said in another thread you regularly go to watch McCarthy at Leicester and seeing as you know everything about all these young players I assume you never miss a match.

[Qwerty]

Well as I said in my previous post, I can tell that Potter has a good future on last nights performance alone.

You have been heavily backing Whelan, Potter, McGeady and Stokes on this forum for some time so I take this remark with a pinch of salt.

[eirebhoy]

You have been heavily backing Whelan, Potter, McGeady and Stokes on this forum for some time so I take this remark with a pinch of salt.
Whelan? I haven't seen him play in over a year.

Potter? eh, I think last night was the first time I've actually "backed him".

Stokes? He'll be a great striker imo. There's no doubt in my mind about that. We'll have to see though, I'll probably be wrong.

McGeady? I tell people how I think he's doing at Celtic seeing as I watch them every week. It took me til last October to say that McGeady deserves his shot for Ireland. That form has since dropped. I'm certainly not biased towards McGeady and I wouldn't have him in the Ireland team with everyone fit. He'll be an excelent player in a few years if he stays with Strachan. His form for the first 3 months of this season was abosutely fantastic.

I don't understand the "pinch of salt" bit. Care to expand?

At least wait until the players prove me wrong before slagging me off. ;)


He backed Ecuador as well :)
I actually didn't. :) I backed over 2.5 goals instead so I still lost.

[geysir]

He backed Ecuador as well :)

[kingdom hoop]

I don't understand the "pinch of salt" bit. Care to expand?


I will. I take your opinion with a healthy, though unhealthy in health terms, ounce of salt. :)

[youngirish]

I will. I take your opinion with a healthy, though unhealthy in health terms, ounce of salt. :)

Eirebhoy in fairness to him is a glass is half full type. He thinks all young Irish players are brilliant. We are the Brazil of the future in his eyes and for that you have to love him. MancIrishWolf is of the same ilk I reckon. While I admire their positivity we have to be honest and admit many young Irish players are just not going to be good enough to make decent Internationals. This is the way of the world. Of all the young Irish players being spouted around at the moment realistically I'd say less than 25% will turn out to be decent International players.

As to the poster above yeah I do go to a few matches (not Liverpool though) but I also have satellite TV and watch most matches on TV bar SPL and League 1 or below so I do see a lot of games. I'm also chief scout for Ajax Amsterdam,Barcelona and Arsenal as mentioned in an earlier post. So there smart ar*e.

[Stuttgart88]

We are the Brazil of the future in his eyes


Ahem, cough, splutter. Check out this thread title and who started it :)

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=57343&highlight=brazil

[youngirish]

Ahem, cough, splutter. Check out this thread title and who started it :)

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=57343&highlight=brazil

It was tongue in cheek though. We do have an obscene amount of forwards and you'd expect a few to make the grade (even if it is only 20 -25% of those mentioned).

[Stuttgart88]

I think already MancIrishWolf has emerged as a poster of value to this site. If only a midfielder or left back would emerge from out of the blue in the same way. Like Crafty up at Leicester it's interesting to hear the views of someone who sees these guys first hand. So what if the glass is half full? Mine is always at least that when it comes to the emerging Irish. Keep it up man.

[eirebhoy]

I will. I take your opinion with a healthy, though unhealthy in health terms, ounce of salt. :)
That's fair enough. :D What I meant though was the 4 players he mentioned were a bit odd. I wouldn't mind if part of his reasoning was the fact that I rated Richie Partridge so highly. :) At least that one's proven badly wrong.

[Four Eyes]

Just to summarise can we all agree Alex Bruce is pants though?


Agreed

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Cheers Stuttgart - on a personal note, i'm a big fan of your work also - inspirational stuff.

YoungIrish - I appreciate what you are saying, however to me a glass half full mentality is better than a glass half empty, especially where young talent is concerned. All young kids need a chance to develop and I just find it difficult to be so cynical of players at such a young age. Many players mature at a later age and if we all adopted a similar black and white stance at such an early age, we would never have seen players like Houghton, Aldridge, Ferdinand, Wright and Sheringham grace the highest level. I'm not saying that all these kids are going to make it, however deserve a chance and as long as they are wearing a green shirt and trying wholeheartedly they will get my full support.

[youngirish]

Cheers Stuttgart - on a personal note, i'm a big fan of your work also - inspirational stuff.

I love yis all. Yous are all great people, each special in their own way.

[geysir]

Apart from McGeady (the pet) I havent noticed anything other than decent unbiased analysis from Eirebhoy on the "starlets".
It's understood that anything can happen at anytime to negate a footballers progress, self inflicted or other.

[Wolfie]

A few comedy gold moments on this thread folks - (intended or not!!). :D

A lot of the banter is aimed at each other as opposed to the usual collective vent towards Stan.

Dare I say it - Is Stan finally gaining a semblance of acceptance?

[eirebhoy]

Apart from McGeady (the pet) I havent noticed anything other than decent unbiased analysis from Eirebhoy on the "starlets".

To be honest my analysis of McGeady is no different to what I say on Celtic forums. I don't think I'm biased at all towards him. Shaun Maloney who recently joined Villa is twice the player.

[republicofwhite]

youngirish's brand of pessimissm is now familiar territory... But I'll never agree with such a perjorative outlook on the players we produce. I'd proclaim to be of the same ilk as manc irish wolf, eirebhoy et al. Why not be positive about the players we produce? We are obviously a small nation with small resources, and we will never be world beaters. The game isn't even our national sport. I think it is an incredible achievement for any indigenous Irishman to make it in the Premiership. Therefore its completely unreasonable to expect players with world beating flair to roll off a production line...There's a growing trend of Irish people being really into the Premiership, La Liga and Serie A whilst simultaneously viewing Irish football with disdain just because they think the quality is crap. I just don't get that, there's no patriotism or pride in such a view. Youngirish may subscribe to this theory and claim to be "realistic" by thinking Irish players will never rise above a certain level of mediocrity, but I say we should be proud of what we produce, and rate players by our own standards that we have and know, not by comparing them to benchmark setters such Brazil, Argentina, Spain, France et al. Thats ridiculous. English people or Europeans may not rate Kevin Doyle in comparison with the likes of the top strikers in their respective leagues, but as an Irishman, and by our own Irish standards,I think he's the best thing to happen Irish football in a while. Thats what I call being realistic.

[youngirish]

To be honest my analysis of McGeady is no different to what I say on Celtic forums. I don't think I'm biased at all towards him. Shaun Maloney who recently joined Villa is twice the player.

And in fairness Eirebhoy he's no shining light in the Premiership.

I'm not always negative I think a few of our young players are very good or at least have the potential to be very good - e.g. Garvan, S Quinn, Long, J O'Brien, Ireland, Supple, Colin Doyle, McShane, St Ledger, even Stokes (though why he's hyped up so much compared to the others I still don't know) to name a few. While there's others that I just don't see turning into top players.

[eirebhoy]

And in fairness Eirebhoy he's no shining light in the Premiership.

Oh mark my words mate. ;)

[Stuttgart88]

In fairness to youngirish he's clearly just as keen as the rest of us to see the young Irish do well, and he's as well informed as anyone when it comes to who's worth keeping an eye on. My only observation is that everything seems very digital - it's either 1 or 0. There is a middle ground in most cases.

[geysir]

I'm not always negative

:)
YoungIrish, we hear you.

[paul_oshea]

Is everyone that contributed ( bar myself and possibly wolfie ) on page 5 of this thread pregnant? If not, you are all very hormonal today, there is a lot of heterosexual homosexual loving going on here.

I find myself between youngirish and eirebhoy, and nothing to do with the last paragraph, but in terms of where I ( cant use that word either ) sit. If I was talking to a person who supports united or liverpool from home i would try and beef up the EL ( even though i know fcuk all about it ), likewise when the EL lads start chatting sh1te I try to bring them down to a realistic level also. So when it comes to young players I try and not be as abjective as others, but at the same time hold out cautious hope, because for so long now we have expected so much from so many, yet so few have produced.

I do have to say though EB is a great source of information and very knowledgeable, but I find he has a certain degree of blind optimism or at least green spectacle glasses. Its certainly a pinch of salt for me :)

[eirebhoy]

If the "pinch of salt" comment has to do with my blind optimism then that's fair enough, it's cleared that up. :) I also don't think I know anywhere near as much as some on here and wouldn't watch as much English football as a lot. I'd still disagree though that I'm over optimistic when it comes to our players. I just tend to ignore the players that I don't rate. ;) I do think we've the best set of players since the Charlton era though. 2 players that I probably do talk up too much are Stokes and McShane but I really believe they both could be top class. We'll have to see. :)

[Billsthoughts]

I find myself between youngirish and eirebhoy,

living the dream....

[paul_oshea]

yes it was in relation to that and also kingdoms ounce of salt post. Mcshane does look the part but I am still wary of lapses of concentration his part. Stokes bar the goals for falkirk hasnt done a great deal and none of them were against the bigger sides, though I have heard good things from people over here about him that used to go out to barnet to see the young lads play. In general though EB, you have a tendency to say a player has played great or is great for Ireland, when personally I can only see averageness, though I do notice when I am watching a team full of foreigners and one or 2 Irish that I have a tendency to just focus on him ( almost like player cam ) and pick out every single good thing he does. I think that is how you look at some Irish players when playing for Ireland also ( and thats most of what you see :) )- the ones that you rate ;)