BBC - Seven Ages of Rock

[beautifulrock]

Interesting series, by the looks of it, starting on BBC this Saturday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/sevenages/

Should be some interesting parts to it and will definately set the Sky plus for it.

[Soper]

If they don't mention Minor Threat, the Dead Kennedys, Discharge, Sonic Youth, Anarcho (I'd settle for Crass), the LA hardcore punk explosion of the early 80's, or Dinosaur Jr, then I will cry.

[Ash]

They class Oasis, Blur, REM and Coldplay as Rock :eek:

Here's the list of featured artists :

1. Jimi Hendrix
2. John Mayall's Blues Breakers
3. Cream
4. The Beatles
5. The Rolling Stones
6. The Yardbirds
7. The Who
8. Bob Dylan
9. Pink Floyd
10. Genesis
11. Roxy Music
12. Bowie
13. Velvet Underground
14. The Sex Pistols
15. The Ramones
16. Radiohead
17. Clash
18. The Buzzcocks
19. Talking Heads
20. The Slits
21. Television
22. Patti Smith
23. John Cale
24. The Damned
25. New York Dolls
26. Black Sabbath
27. Deep Purple
28. Metallica
29. Iron Maiden
30. Judas Priest
31. The Strokes
32. Ozzy Osbourne
33. Mötley Crüe
34. Bruce Springsteen
35. Queen
36. U2
37. Dire Straits
38. Police
39. Kiss
40. Led Zeppelin
41. Nirvana
42. Black Flag
43. R.E.M.
44. The Pixies
45. Mudhoney
46. Hüsker Dü
47. The White Stripes
48. The Replacements
49. The Smiths
50. Blur
51. The Stone Roses
52. Oasis
53. The Libertines
54. Suede
55. Arctic Monkeys
56. Franz Ferdinand
57. Coldplay

[Soper]

Mention The Velvet Underground but not The Stooges or MC5! I'm weeping here

[beautifulrock]

Mention The Velvet Underground but not The Stooges or MC5! I'm weeping here

Soper, I am not sure that this programme is for you.:D Have to say looking forward to it myself, a few glaring ommissions though.

[Soper]

I know it may seem like I am being pedantic, but the bands I mentioned aren't exactly obscure unknowns. I mean, everyone knows who Iggy Pop is surely? And if Black Flag get mentioned, then there should be room for Minor Threat. Alas, I'll watch it and see if the nice people at the BBC surprise me.

[stann]

I know it may seem like I am being pedantic, but the bands I mentioned aren't exactly obscure unknowns. I mean, everyone knows who Iggy Pop is surely? And if Black Flag get mentioned, then there should be room for Minor Threat. Alas, I'll watch it and see if the nice people at the BBC surprise me.

They kind of are obscure though. Not to people who inhabit a music forum right enough, but to people watching BBC on Saturday night.
Iggy Pop is a glaring omission, but considering the list obviously had to have a very broad, and mass, appeal I don't think it's that bad. Joy Division aren't there either. Or The Fall. Or The Kinks. We could easily quadruple that list in this thread and still leave someone out who should be on it. They have to stop somewhere I suppose.

Regarding Blag Flag, well I don't think they'd be there either if it wasn't for the excuse to get the telegenic Rollins in for a quote or two.
Also, if it was a straight choice, I'd have the Velvets before the Stooges and MC5 any day. :D
I'll still watch this as much as I can in the absence of Sky+ though, these type of programmes (like that Classic Album series) are usually much more worth viewing than the subject bands would first suggest.

[Soper]

I agree with you - Velvets come first for me.

I didn't even bother looking at the 'Indie' programme. I took it as a definite that Joy Division would be there!

[gustavo]

They class Oasis, Blur, REM and Coldplay as Rock :eek:

Here's the list of featured artists :


Presume they are talking rock in the broadest sense of the word.

[stann]

I agree with you - Velvets come first for me.

I didn't even bother looking at the 'Indie' programme. I took it as a definite that Joy Division would be there!

Just looked at the link meself now, as opposed to the list of bands above, and it is glaringly incomplete, very ad hoc. :)
Indie began with The Smiths did it indeed? OK that's not what they're saying, I know.
Still though, they have to start (and end) somewhere, and, omissions and all, I'll still be tuning in, even to the stadium rock show! :o :D

[stann]

They class Oasis, Blur, REM and Coldplay as Rock :eek:

Two-Chord Pub-Rock, Arch-And-Slightly-Camp Rock, Country Whine-Rock and Wet Rock.
All important niches that deserve the right to be represented! :D

[Soper]

All this just makes me want to go out and buy some vinyl

[Lionel Ritchie]

They class Oasis, Blur, REM and Coldplay as Rock :eek:

Here's the list of featured artists :

1. Jimi Hendrix
2. John Mayall's Blues Breakers
3. Cream
4. The Beatles
5. The Rolling Stones
6. The Yardbirds
7. The Who
8. Bob Dylan
9. Pink Floyd
10. Genesis
11. Roxy Music
12. Bowie
13. Velvet Underground
14. The Sex Pistols
15. The Ramones
16. Radiohead
17. Clash
18. The Buzzcocks
19. Talking Heads
20. The Slits
21. Television
22. Patti Smith
23. John Cale
24. The Damned
25. New York Dolls
26. Black Sabbath
27. Deep Purple
28. Metallica
29. Iron Maiden
30. Judas Priest
31. The Strokes
32. Ozzy Osbourne
33. Mötley Crüe
34. Bruce Springsteen
35. Queen
36. U2
37. Dire Straits
38. Police
39. Kiss
40. Led Zeppelin
41. Nirvana
42. Black Flag
43. R.E.M.
44. The Pixies
45. Mudhoney
46. Hüsker Dü
47. The White Stripes
48. The Replacements
49. The Smiths
50. Blur
51. The Stone Roses
52. Oasis
53. The Libertines
54. Suede
55. Arctic Monkeys
56. Franz Ferdinand
57. Coldplay

I am looking forward to this but I had to re-read that several times to make sure a programme purporting to examine the "ages of rock" decided not to deal with The Doors.

A couple of observations ...nothing but unadulterated snobbery keeps Status Quo out of the early/mid seventies menu.

Why Judas Priest but not Motorhead?
.....Suede but not Pulp?

Motley Crue?

"Oh help me Mrs Meddlicot, I don't know what to do
I've only got three bullets and there's four of Motley Crue"

[Lev Yashin]

I know it may seem like I am being pedantic, but the bands I mentioned aren't exactly obscure unknowns. I mean, everyone knows who Iggy Pop is surely? And if Black Flag get mentioned, then there should be room for Minor Threat. Alas, I'll watch it and see if the nice people at the BBC surprise me.

Iggy who??

[jebus]

Iggy who??

God I hope thats a joke.

And why include the Libertines? Have never sold huge amounts of records, become more famous for Doherty shagging Kate Moss then anything else, their popularity is strictly a British Isles thing and are only really rated by people who read the NME, i.e. people who's opinion shouldn't matter

[gustavo]

God I hope thats a joke.

And why include the Libertines? Have never sold huge amounts of records, become more famous for Doherty shagging Kate Moss then anything else, and are only really rated by people who read the NME, i.e. people who's opinion shouldn't matter

Ehmm , the BBC is British so of course its gonna have acts that are popular mostly in Britain in its rock story . You could probably say the same about Blur , Suede and the Stone Roses from that list alone,

[Soper]

Thinking about this again, Ifeel I may have been slightly picky with regards bands mentioned. However, having no Motorhead, Joy Division or Sonic Youth is tragic

[Marked Man]

The Slits? The Yardbirds? Dire Straits? Motley Crue?

As a rock documentary goes, this is right up there with This Is Spinal Tap.

[superfrank]

I liked it. Good idea for the basis of it. Looking forward to next weeks with Bowie.

More info here: Seven Ages (http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/sevenages/)

[beautifulrock]

i think you should give it a chance lads, it was decent tonight with I feel some of the better bits to come.

[Lionel Ritchie]

i think you should give it a chance lads, it was decent tonight with I feel some of the better bits to come.

I thought it was a bit soapy in places and some of the " end of an era" type rhetoric was done to death. I also noticed a lot of rehashed interview and commentary footage from those around him (Beck, Clapton for example) that was lifted directly from existing programmes and had no "speaking in 1981" type tag on it. That's a bit annoying.

Also -if you're going to get supposed "experts" to talk about a given musicians life and death -it'd be handy to get one who knows that Jimi Hendrix died BEFORE Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison -not after as one of them claimed last night.

Finally -that there wasn't a quip out of his bandmates Mitch Mitchell and the late Noel Redding suggests Experience Hendrix Inc. had their revisionist paws all over it.

[shakermaker1982]

I enjoyed it on the whole. Didn't learn anything new but it was well put together.

Looking forward to the clash and nirvana weeks. Hopefully coldplay don't get too much of a mention in the last part because the show will lose all credibilty.....

[jebus]

Also -if you're going to get supposed "experts" to talk about a given musicians life and death -it'd be handy to get one who knows that Jimi Hendrix died BEFORE Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison -not after as one of them claimed last night.

Finally -that there wasn't a quip out of his bandmates Mitch Mitchell and the late Noel Redding suggests Experience Hendrix Inc. had their revisionist paws all over it.

Didn't watch it myself, but those two points have put me instantly off the show

[Neish]

Didn't watch it myself, but those two points have put me instantly off the show

Its repeated on BBC 1 tonight at 12:05 if ya wanna see it

[Wolfie]

Finally -that there wasn't a quip out of his bandmates Mitch Mitchell and the late Noel Redding suggests Experience Hendrix Inc. had their revisionist paws all over it.

I don't think things ended too well between Noel Redding and Jimi.

I think its well documented that Jimi was never very receptive to any Noel Redding songs appearing on the "Experience" albums - I think "Little Miss Strange" on Electric Ladyland was the grudging exception.

I think the programme did serve as a reminder that Hendrix was a genuine and influential talent.

How cool was covering "Sgt Peppers Lonely Heartsclub Band" at a gig the day after its release? :cool:

[paul_oshea]

iron maiden, black sabbath, judas priest, motley crue, metallica. sounds like they got this one right.

[wiseman]

The Slits? The Yardbirds? Dire Straits? Motley Crue?

As a rock documentary goes, this is right up there with This Is Spinal Tap.

The Slits were forefront in dub/mock reggae (Wagga)
Yardbirds?
Dire Straits big in their day, start of arena rock scene
Motley Crue, while GNR were big in Europe MC ruled the US, seriously out selling GNR in records and live sales.

Loads of bands missing but you can't do them all:
But missing:
The Jam
CSNY
Sisters of Mercy (Goth scene totally ignored)
Big Black

[stann]

And AC/DC! The most criminal omission of all? :)

First one not too bad though, as these things go. Learned a couple of things, the balls of steel Sgt. Pepper cover, and the fact he was doing Hey Joe the night Chas Chandler went to see him to see if he'd be the man to do Hey Joe! And the fact Jeff Beck thinks he'd have been every bit as good as Hendrix if he wasn't English! :D

[superfrank]

And the fact Jeff Beck thinks he'd have been every bit as good as Hendrix if he wasn't English! :D
Was it just me or did the footage of Jeff Beck look like Nigel from Spinal Tap?

[stann]

Was it just me or did the footage of Jeff Beck look like Nigel from Spinal Tap?

Uncannily like him! :D
Maybe he would have been as good as Hendrix so if his amps went up to 11. :D

[Lionel Ritchie]

Was it just me or did the footage of Jeff Beck look like Nigel from Spinal Tap?

Thought that too ...but seriously it was footage like that -and the Clapton interview that had me shaking my head -both straight lifts from 'The Rock & Roll Years' I think it was. Likewise the Townsend footage.

Hadn't seen the Daltrey commentary before and it was obviously more recent.


I don't think things ended too well between Noel Redding and Jimi.

I think its well documented that Jimi was never very receptive to any Noel Redding songs appearing on the "Experience" albums - I think "Little Miss Strange" on Electric Ladyland was the grudging exception. That and another one called 'She's So Fine' I think. While that was something of a sore point with them I don't get the impression it's what led to Reddings departure and he maintained himself and Hendrix never actually fell out.

He has a fantastic book 'Are You Experienced' which goes into the thing (from his perspective of course) where he felt they were being worked like dogs but weren't getting paid unless they bitched and bitched -at which point some cash would be miraculously produced to shut them up when they'd previously been told there was nothing in the kitty.

I think he realised relatively early -that is -earlier than Hendrix and WAY earlier than Mitchell that monies due to them were being siphoned by an intriquette web of managment companies.

Himself and Mitch Mitchell were royally screwed -Not by Hendrix himself -but by their managment, their record labels and by the intitution now known as Experience Hendrix Inc.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Last nights show was better in several ways to the Hendrix one. Some of the Floyd footage was fantastic and there were more up to date commentaries from people involved.

I would say though that Pink Floyd AND David Bowie probably deserve a program each as stand alones ala the Hendrix show -though the Velvet Underground tie in was interesting and relevant to both.

It's probably down to my own personal taste so subjectivity can't be avoided -but I didn't get the major relevance of the Genesis and particularly Roxy Music tie in. But neither of those two figure hugely in my own personal History of Rock'n'roll.

All in all -I'm not too disappointed I'll be missing the "punk" one next week as I reckon it'll be sketchy and fairly Sky One in it's appraisal.

Also -that Murray character is very suspect in his contributions (he's the guy who got his dates arseways last week with the deaths of Hendrix/Joplin/Morrison.

[bennocelt]

I would say though that Pink Floyd AND David Bowie probably deserve a program each as stand alones ala the Hendrix show -though the Velvet Underground tie in was interesting and relevant to both.

It's probably down to my own personal taste so subjectivity can't be avoided -but I didn't get the major relevance of the Genesis and particularly Roxy Music tie in. But neither of those two figure hugely in my own personal History of Rock'n'roll.
.

seen this show tonite for the first time, and thats exactly what struck me as well, i mean you dont naturally think of roxy music and genesis as rock legends etc
but i am looking forward to next week, since im a massive punk fan, but i just know im going to be dissapointed...........
SLF? would be a real treat but i doubt it

[Lionel Ritchie]

but i am looking forward to next week, since im a massive punk fan, but i just know im going to be dissapointed...........
SLF? would be a real treat but i doubt it

It's because I'm a massive punk fan I'm relatively happy to miss it.

Among the inaccuracies, myths and general sloppiness to be regurgetated there will probably be...

*punk was a direct response to and indeed was caused by "prog rock". Yes will be mentioned, Can too - if they try to be really cool and over-paint the percieved contextual background.

*Pink Floyd will be the main villians and the success of Dark Side of the Moon will be trumped as the final straw and some sort of rallying call "to a generation of angry disaffected youth with their own look and their own sound."

*That Pink Floyds Nick Mason produced early singles by The Damned (and several other punk bands) will NOT be mentioned.

That punk rock on either side of the atlantic were two completley different animals that evolved within a different set of circumstances will probably NOT be mentioned or will be dealt with in a ham-fisted manner.

[superfrank]

I would say though that Pink Floyd AND David Bowie probably deserve a program each as stand alones ala the Hendrix show -though the Velvet Underground tie in was interesting and relevant to both.
Bowie definitely. There was nowhere near enough about him. Though I'm sure it's cos with the program format they were trying only those two years fit in with the art rock crap.

They also left out a huge chunk of Pink Floyd stuff from the mid-seventies. Seens a bit odd.

[stann]

Again, yep, a bit patchy and random but a more interesting show to me, or at least more informative as there were a few bands I've never been that much into, namely Pink Floyd and Genesis.

Agree too about Charles Shaar Murray and his freewheeling approach to facts. Which is odd because do I remember rightly that he was considered to be some kind of paragon in the rock journalism world a few years back? Sort of the Con Houlihan of the music hacks? :)

Anyway, if for nothing else this episode was worth it for two things - Roxy playing pretty much the whole of 'Virginia Plain', and the Peter Gabriel story about him coming out on stage in the scarlet evening gown and huge fox head and not telling the band about it! Was still laughing about that this morning thinking of the bandmates' reactions. :D

[Lionel Ritchie]

Just back from Bartha-lona.

So what was the verdict on the punk show?

[Soper]

Basically it only scratched the surface of it. At least they acknowledged the existance of American punk bands, because a lot of British programmes of this type try to make it appear that punk was 100% British.

[bennocelt]

Basically it only scratched the surface of it. At least they acknowledged the existance of American punk bands, because a lot of British programmes of this type try to make it appear that punk was 100% British.


yeah true, but also within America they also tend to focus on New York , without mentioning the punk scene in california (san fran)

[Lionel Ritchie]

Saw last nights show from Iron Maiden onwards. I'm guessing I missed little enough (a reference to Sheffield suggests there was some of Def Leppards muck being aired earlier).

Maiden and Priest stuff was interesting even if heavily re-hashed in the latter case.

Motley Crue mean less than nothing to me so they could've interchanged Poison or Faster Pussycat and I'd not have noticed or cared so long as they dispensed with them as quickly as possible.

Metallica I was interested in -but their whole genre was dealt with in very broad strokes. No mention at all of Anthrax or Slayer -so the only context you were given was that they didn't wear high heels and make up like Crue. Interviews with Hetfield and Ulrich were lifted straight from V-H1s recent 'Rise of Heavy Metal' (title???)

So that left us with only lord god almighty himself Bob Rock and his quest to get Metallica to make a Guns'N'Roses record.:rolleyes:

[paul_oshea]

is this repeated would love to see this. and the stuff about motley crue!!! :D

[stann]

It's on again tonight at half eleven on BBC1, maybe there's regional variations in the time, but I've seen 2 of the previous 3 on the Sunday night so it'll defo be on sometime.

[bennocelt]

the heavy metal one was good, but i was expecting a nod to Def leppard,

and i thought there was a glaring omission to Thin Lizzy and Wishbone Ash, surely if you are talking about the origins of metal they deserve a mention, what with double guitars and all that

overall the show looks like a rushed series, without much indepth thinking behind it, still its better than "grease", or that other singing/dancing rubbish on the box

[endabob1]

overall the show looks like a rushed series, without much indepth thinking behind it, still its better than "grease", or that other singing/dancing rubbish on the box

Spot on, it strikes me as a hugely wasted opportunity

[paul_oshea]

i never knew bob rock produced dr feelgood...it got me nicely setup for the Crue tonight at hammersmith.

I wouldnt go as far as to say "rushed", i would more take the view it could have been a 2 hour/2.5 hour show. i think they tried to get an awful lot in in the hour, which didnt do it justice. even thought there mimght have been a mention on zztop....certainly should have been something on thin lizzy alright though as they were hetfields and cliff burtons main influence along with bob seger. The show certainly didnt cover enough areas.

the double guitar thing, and the power agression stuff they were talking about really hit home with me. THe whole idea of raw passion coming out in teh riffs that get you going was very apt. Personally that show will probably have been the best one for me out of the 7, perhaps next week too.

[stann]

No problem.

[paul_oshea]

thanks stann....is that what you were looking for? :D

[DaveyCakes]

I only saw the punk and metal episodes..thought both were pretty disappointing.

[noby]

This week: College Rock/Grunge.

I enjoyed this episode. It covered the subject as good as could be expected - Cobain was always going to take over the program.

It made me dig out Nevermind on Sunday for the first time in about four years, so it must have worked.
It also reminded me how good Green is.

[razor]

Thought the Pixies deserved more of a mention.