Election 2007: Prime Time Leaders Debate

[pete]

Labour have campaigned on anti-government stance. I think going in with FF would be dishonest. Its not like they can claim dropping the PDs means its a completely new government.

[Poor Student]

Labour have campaigned on anti-government stance.

Pat Rabbitte has. Hasn't Sergant said he'd step down if the Greens went into coalition with FF?

[jebus]

US system is totally different. you vote for a president, you vote for your congres, and you vote for your senate. it is a three tier system. the president and the ruling party in the congress are not always the same. in our system the leader of the largest party in government (usually) becomes the taoiseach. giving the government much more stability as the leader and the ruling party are from the same party. The american system can become unstable as one party is in congress while the leader is from the opposition. the president of ireland is merely a figure head - a glorified ambasador.

oh yeah and that great system in the USA gave us George W instead of Clinton! Great change there then!! And because a president can only serve 2 terms you usually see some serious dodgy moves in the final weeks of their term. Grants, criminals exonarated, contract issued, promotions.....etc.

However bad our system is do not say that the Yank's is better. If you think a few builders at the Galway Races is treason then look at the donations to American Presidential campaigns from Drug Companies, Oil Co.'s, Weapons manufactures. Ever wonder why the Americans seem to need a War every decade, well look at who funded their election!!!! Has their been many Medical breakthroughs in recent memory or merely serious advancement in Drugs which contain or reduce symptoms - what was the last major disease that was cured with all of our major technology???? But I don't want to go on about all of that.

I fully understand the US model, and agree that in many ways its a shambles, all I said I agreed with is replacing the leader of the party/head of state every eight years is a good idea, as I feel said leader would have grown tired and stale in the job. Jesus I hardly needed a rant about the conspiracy of US politics :rolleyes:

[Aberdonian Stu]

I'm not ruling out any possible combo government that can get the seats together, except an FF-FG coaliton.

That combo aside all the commitments X makes to not going into power with Y tend to disappear when basic post election arithmetic comes into play. Anyone remember 1992?:D

[Erstwhile Bóz]

:D Indeed. When the results are declared in a close election the parties start interpreting them like so many Christian sects interpreting the Bible. "Will of the people" = "Word of God". The people of Ireland have clearly stated their preference for a Fianna Fáil-PD-Worker's Party coalition with the support of four Independents...

[Calcio Jack]

:D Indeed. When the results are declared in a close election the parties start interpreting them like so many Christian sects interpreting the Bible. "Will of the people" = "Word of God". The people of Ireland have clearly stated their preference for a Fianna Fáil-PD-Worker's Party coalition with the support of four Independents...

Or Pat Rabbit as he puts aside his principles to save the electorate from themselves and goes into goverment with FF.... " forgive them lord , they know not what they do..."

or no doubt Bertie will be looking for inspiration from the Sermon on the Mount (apologies to Monty Python fans) " Blessed are the peacemakers....and builders for they shall inhherit the earth..."

[galwayhoop]

I fully understand the US model, and agree that in many ways its a shambles, all I said I agreed with is replacing the leader of the party/head of state every eight years is a good idea, as I feel said leader would have grown tired and stale in the job. Jesus I hardly needed a rant about the conspiracy of US politics :rolleyes:

Yeah I went off on one there alright :D

But while there is an arguement for the leader going stale there is the counter arguement of stability. For a football example you need look no further than Alex Ferguson who has consistently shuffled those around him and remained in 'Power' for nearly 2 decades.

Both cases have merit but I don't buy the 2 terms and your out as a truly great leader can be put out to stud early against the will of the people.

Anyway the reason I started on America was to illustrate that it is a different system where the Presidential Candidate is not in fact the Leader of the party but instead put forward by the Party members to stand as President. It would require a fundamental change in our political system to bring something similar into effect.

[dahamsta]

I don't think Labour can go into government with Fianna Failure with Rabbitte in charge now, not after his recent comments. I just hope he isn't being over-confident, there's plenty of time for the Failures to fight dirty yet. It could lose Rabbitte his leadership if it winds up an odd one.

adam

[pete]

I don't think Labour can go into government with Fianna Failure with Rabbitte in charge now, not after his recent comments. I just hope he isn't being over-confident, there's plenty of time for the Failures to fight dirty yet. It could lose Rabbitte his leadership if it winds up an odd one.


Because people don't seem to believe Labours stance on coalition with FF it means FG are grabbing all the anti-government votes often at the expense of Labour.