View Full Version : Match Programmes
The Donie Forde
04/02/2003, 3:43 PM
Sussing people's views on NL match programmes...
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
What would you like to see in a programme?
What do you hate to see in NL programmes?
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years?
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info?
If you were not a regular programme buyer, what would persuade you to become one?
Just a thought: if 2,000 fans bought programmes at every home game of the season (say 20 games) a club could earn €80,000 on sales alone. This is sizable money, I think you will agree.
It seems a good way to contribute to the financial health of CCFC.
Be interested in any feedback.
Thanks!
Donie
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)? Yes
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)? Not often cos poor quality in many of them.
What would you like to see in a programme? Dunno. Would think seasons stats page to mandatory. Some articles on something besides Roy Keane & Mick McCarthy.
What do you hate to see in NL programmes? Crappy pen pics (no reference to Pats) that are either out of date, lifted from website or just typed in big font to fill out the programme.
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years? Some small clubs give the impression they just print them cos its a condition of league membership. CCFC programme been good throughout the years.
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info? probably not enough info every 2 weeks to justify so must be way to support the club.
If you were not a regular programme buyer, what would persuade you to become one? Better read, better value.
Pat MacGroyne
04/02/2003, 5:42 PM
The City programe is one of the better ones on the EL market and me and my friends have no problem buying it. It is a credit to the editors and a bargain at 2 euros.
However it would be better if:
Less Noelle Feeney Marketing and the other fella ( I skip their columns).
More Manager notes- Murphy did 1 all season.
A letters page granted it needs letter writers!!!
Perhaps a what ever happened to - Cormac Cotter for example.
More colour features- if it is viable.
As I say these are just a few small things and as it stands Citys programe is one of the best in Ireland, north and South
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)? Yes. Cos i collect them.
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)? Same as above.
What would you like to see in a programme? Interviews with players. News from the club. Managers cloumn actually saying something other than mindless cliches.
What do you hate to see in NL programmes? Attacks on fans for having their opinions and long-winded glorification of X, Y or Z supermarket for sponsoring the bleedin' match ball.
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years? Improved hugely over the last while, most programmes reflect the state of the club. Top sides usually have better programmes.
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info? A bit on the expensive side, but apparently profit margin isn't great so fair enough. Are a good source of info, but could be even better.
I buy the programme at every game I attend. First of all let's be realistic Éanna, City have to acknowledge their sponsors, we should be grateful to have them and not begrudge them a page in the programme.
I always read the chairman's page, because he uses it to communicate his plans, and they seem ambitious (fair dues Brian). However I would like to see a regular manager's column(Gunther never grasped the fact that the fans actually matter).
Also I think it's time City adopted squad numbers and that these would be printed in the programme. This may help the sale of jerseys (O'Flynn number 9), and also make things easier for the casual visitor, who surely needs encouragement>
A face
05/02/2003, 1:08 AM
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
Yes ... For a number of reasons, To keep up to date on the club's exploits. (I feel the same about Noelles/Jim Murphy (???) page, It should be more about the marketing side of the club and not her opinion on everything, i'd want to know how active the club is on that side of things. Christmas appeals and schools tours is all well and good but fund raising is more important news. Sponcers have to get a mention but if the page was more ... 'honest' it would be easier to read). To support the club. Something to read at half time etc. because it is good effort by the club. If the ads in the program were bigger money wise then there would be less room taken up by them. I'd like to see that happen.
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
They are brutal half the time but yeah, just to say i was there (collect them) City's it definitely one of the best in the country at the moment.
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
No, because the half time entertainment keeps me enthralled. Seriously, I dont bother with programmes.
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
No, am not interested in programmes
What would you like to see in a programme? Honesty, humour and news. But I get my fix of this on the website here
What do you hate to see in NL programmes?
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years? From the odd one I see, the standard is improving, but was always fairly high at City.
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info?
If you were not a regular programme buyer, what would persuade you to become one? A meltdown in the internet might persuade me to buy one for club news, or if it was a bit more humorous, like the fanzine.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
Yes. Latest news and odds bits of info about the club and players
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
Not ususually. Although I did at St Pats because of the unique nature of the content. Many of the away programmes are poor quality and leave alot to be desired.
What would you like to see in a programme?
I think that Noelle and Jim are giving too much space. A whole page for both? Most of the programmes contain the manager on the front page rather than the chairman, but since it's talking to the fans in the CCFC programme, maybe that's why the manager didn't see fit to contribute on most occasions.
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years?
Yeah, they have improved but in general need to continue. The CCFC programme is one of the best, if not the best in the country.
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info?
Is EUR2 which is nothing. Is good for value for what what we pay. I would hate to see the price increase much more though.
The Donie Forde
05/02/2003, 9:49 AM
...lads and lassies, great to get your views.
I think one of the big problems would be to make the commercial content interesting - maybe that's impossible, I dunno. I think we have to accept that in the hunt for sponsorship clubs have to 'bow and scrape' so to speak by 'exalting' in print those who give them the bobs, so commercial stuff is gonna be included. Brilliantly produced British programmes are now almost creaking under the weight of their commercial content, so the Irish scene isn't that bad yet!
I myself believe that more interviews, so long as they are not twaddle, would be a big help - make it more of a magazine type thing.
Clubs also need to be more honest, as someone mentioned above, and also to appreciate how powerful the printed word can be if used correctly. It's not every industry that produces its own publication for public consumption as often as football clubs do...
Any more ideas on improvements, anyone?
Donie
Hecko
05/02/2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Ali-G
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
No, because the half time entertainment keeps me enthralled. Seriously, I dont bother with programmes.
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
No, am not interested in programmes
That's 'cos you bleedin' read mine, cheapo ;)
I likes the quiz the season stats, but could do with a bit more info in behind the scene's stuff - injuries, squad players etc.
I'm dead curious as to what happened Cormac as well - would hav ehad a good career in the NFL i reckon...
patsh
05/02/2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Sussing people's views on NL match programmes...
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
Always. Some extra money for the club.
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
Yeah. Because I was there!
What would you like to see in a programme?
Some general eL news, maybe a column/article by someone from the FAI/League on some aspect of the league concerning all clubs.
Some stats/info on the officials (refs etc)
Maybe a column where fans could contribute an article.
What do you hate to see in NL programmes?
Well, in the CCFC prog, couldn't the Noelle/Jim O'M pieces be on the same page or the same article?
Stupid cut and paste pieces with no research on whats been written !!;)
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years?
CCFC prog is pretty good. Bohs and $hels also. The rest can be iffy
(I have never gotten a Longford prog though)
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info?
Well worthwhile if the effort is put into them.
If you were not a regular programme buyer, what would persuade you to become one?
At each home game, a photo is taken of a fan in the crowd. Print the pic in the next prog, then if the fan presents the prog with his/her pic at the game, a prize (shirt/baseball hat etc) is awarded. Would have to be well publicised though.
Pablo
05/02/2003, 11:41 AM
why does noelle even have a piece in the programme?
Originally posted by Pablo
why does noelle even have a piece in the programme?
Sure it's HER club Pablo!
Pablo
05/02/2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Neil
Sure it's HER club Pablo!
sure i forgot about that! my apologies ;)
NorthoftheLee
05/02/2003, 12:34 PM
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
Always do, gives and extra €2 to the club plus I usually have €2 left from paying at the gate. :)
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
No, don't want to help out other clubs.
What would you like to see in a programme?
Player profiles (Profile a different player each programme, having their views on events/matches that occurred since the last programme, interests, stuff like that.)
Maybe a Diary from one of the more senior players.
More news on the the underage scene..Bright prospects, acievements etc..
Letters section.
Polls, fans views, fans interaction page. (You could ask the fans opinion on new kits, merchandise, etc.. After all it is the fans who will be buying them)
What do you hate to see in NL programmes?
Noelle's column is rubbish and so is the commercial column. There is no way they should be given a page each whenthey barely talk about their respective areas. All they are at the moment is fillers.
There are too many adds but I can understand why.
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years?
They have improved over the years. City's programme is pretty good overall.
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info?
value for money/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info.
I wouldn't like the proce to increase though.
The Donie Forde
05/02/2003, 1:00 PM
Originally posted by oddboy
[
Some stats/info on the officials (refs etc)
City usually have stuff about the refs in fairness...
Donie
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
Usually. It's getting a few exclusives this season. Which is the way it should be.
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
Sometimes. Most of them are crap.
What would you like to see in a programme?
News from behind the scenes. Merchandising and marketing Ideas (not the dribble that Noelle and Jim Murphy lash out every other week).
What do you hate to see in NL programmes?
Ads for butchers and corner shops!
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years?
City's is quite good, but could be anawful lot better.
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info?
Yes, good way to support club.
Would you buy one at City home games (Why/why not)?
Yes. Basically its just a way of supporting the club.
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
It depends what mood I'm in. I used to buy one at every game just to prove I was there! Now, however, I only buy them if i'm in a good mood and if the quality is good.
What would you like to see in a programme?
More interviews with players etc. Stuff that people actually WANT to read.
What do you hate to see in NL programmes?
The Noelle and Jim Murphy type stuff. They have nothing interesting to say and nobody wants to read what they write. The general consensus seems to be that they have no place in the programme.
Do you think NL programmes are/are not well produced, is the standard good/bad, have they improved over the years?
Bohs and Longfords are very good. Citys and Pats aint bad either.
Do you think programmes are value for money/a waste of time/a good way to support your club/a good source of club info?It is a good way of supporting the club.
If you were not a regular programme buyer, what would persuade you to become one?
More stuff that will interest the fans and less of the bullsh!t.
Substantial interviews would be a good way to go, as we don't a club magazine or a league magazine either.
Originally posted by bert
First of all let's be realistic Éanna, City have to acknowledge their sponsors, we should be grateful to have them and not begrudge them a page in the programme.
Thats not what i was getting at- I was referring to the virtual eulogies written to sponsors in Jim Murphy and Noelle Feeney's columns. If someone sponsors something and they get an ad in the programme for it thats a fair exchange and I've no problem with it, but this "we welcome X and his gang this week. X has been a huge city fan blah blah blah" for about 4 or 5 lines as well is a bit much I think.
The Donie Forde
06/02/2003, 9:53 AM
Was there anything in the City programme this season that you enjoyed or seemed to work well?
What about the stat pieces - worth their place or not?
Donie
BigDan
06/02/2003, 11:24 AM
A stats page like they used to have a few years back with a complete listing of the team for each game across the middle pages. You know the one I'm talking about I hope. The same column used to also give the subs that were used and the goalscorers. Don't know if it used to tell ya about bookings. The reason this would be good is for people who collect programmes. A few years later and you still have a full listing of who played in what games and who scored against who. Just an idea. The matchday programme at the cross isn't too bad and is probably one of the best in the country, some of the away ones are shocking. Not meant as a crticism but things can always be improved and I think any new manager has to do a column to keep us up to date with whats happening in the squad and views on other things EL.
fonzi
10/02/2003, 10:00 AM
bohs have the best programs.
theyre big full colour and are informative.
city's ones are not any of the above
informative sometimes yes but is compleatly full of endorsements
Pat MacGroyne
10/02/2003, 5:37 PM
Originally posted by niamh
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Would you buy one at City away games (Why/why not)?
Not ususually. Although I did at St Pats because of the unique nature of the content.
I collect programes and have been told that in about 20 or 30 years time that programe(Pats game) and the Bayern Munich game one are the ones most likely to increase in value.
A few ones with autographs ie 98 cup final with Daly or Coughlan signatures could be worth money too in the future!!!
I think the city programe is good but as I already stated and am glad that others agree the Jim Murphy and Noelle pages are crap.
Rico ( hopefully) might do manager notes even Mountfield done them why couldnt Gunther. The Stats page is one of the best pieces in the programe and is good for settling bets with drunk fathers ( mine tried to convince me it was Morley who scored at Musgrave v Bayern Munich)
The Donie Forde
11/02/2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by fonzi
bohs have the best programs.
theyre big full colour and are informative.
city's ones are not any of the above
informative sometimes yes but is compleatly full of endorsements
Bohs is black and white throughout, doesn't even have a full colour cover!
Completely full of endorsements????
When did you last see one, fonzi?
Donie
The Donie Forde
11/02/2003, 1:03 PM
Originally posted by Conor74
Well, I'm a cynic, so I don't think they're a good source of info. Again, the City one may well be value for money and clearly the producers put a lot of effort in.
If you were not a regular programme buyer, what would persuade you to become one?
A little less of the official propaganda and little more irreverance.
A big thing to be aware of here is that progs and zines are distinctly different. For either to become more llike the other more or less defeats the purpose.
If you argue that zines include rumours, you have to accept that properly edited programmes trade in facts - not hearsay. I'd say put the two together, any issue you choose to compare, and the prog will always contain more genuine information than the fanzine.
Anyway, I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative. A lot of the stuff is recycled etc...
They are of course ad free, though you have to agree that the club requires the revenue received from advertising. Show me a magazine that doesn't have advertising...?
Irreverance, you say? Check out your back issues over the years and you'll see the City prog got stuck in a lot stronger into the rights and wrongs of Irish football than most fanzines ever do.
If your gonna be critical, as least be aware of the facts - and don't simply reply on pre-conceived notions.
Donie
Casegrande
11/02/2003, 1:10 PM
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Anyway, I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative.
Can.
Worms.
Open.
WeAreRovers
11/02/2003, 1:49 PM
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Bohs is black and white throughout, doesn't even have a full colour cover!
Completely full of endorsements????
When did you last see one, fonzi?
Donie
Exactly! You can tell you lot never leave the Deep South, otherwise you would know that, yet again, Rovers programme won the Programme of the Year award.
Rovers programme is light years ahead of everyone elses, as the amount of awards it has won testifies. In fairness Cork City's effort is one of the better ones and I saw every club's programme last season.
KOH
Casegrande
11/02/2003, 1:51 PM
The Shams fanzine is a lot better too!
Gone Away
11/02/2003, 2:12 PM
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Anyway, I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative. A lot of the stuff is recycled etc...
Would you be part of a programme Donie, becasue that is a very pro programme?
I dnt think that the City zine is unimagintaive. I feel it tackles issues which dont necessarily pull the party line. Cant see how that is an anti formula, its merely stating facts, and maybe a few opinions. Its alot better than reading Spillanes rubbish anyway.
And im not against the programme either. There is some very good, very funny and very informative stuff involved in it. Okay, there is a lot of ads, but compared to some other clubs, its not as bad.
My only beef with the ads is the quality of them. Silly small little corner shops who cant be paying good money. Look at the Pats one and there are ads for ESB, Electrolux and other well recognized brand names. This isnt only the programmes problem, but a problem of CCFC as a whole. Look at the hoardings. Who cares about Duhallow Aluminium, some fishmarket, Goal. When last were these paid for. I reckon some of them have been there since the late 80s! Again look at Dublin, u will see hoardings for good brands like Guinness, Vodafone and plebty other brands as well ( im aware Guinness have onre at our ground, but u get my point).
All in all, and to get back to my original point, i dont see why the fanzine and the programme have to be swiping, im sure they complement each other quite well. I know i buy both every time anyway. One for a laugh and the other for some hard info.
anyway *yawn*!
Originally posted by Gone Away
I feel it tackles issues which dont necessarily pull the party line. Cant see how that is an anti formula, its merely stating facts, and maybe a few opinions.
it seems to me that there are a lot of the older members/supporters of Cork City who view any sort of opinion as personal criticism and they hold a view that "how dare those feckers say or do anything against me"
people in the club like Noelle feeney think they own CCFC and the opinion of a supporter is seen as a threat.
i can see why truths in the fanzine would be seen by some in the club/supporters club as threats to their little positions. but if they are not prepared to listen to advise and suggestions from the supporter then their positions become untenable.
the fanzine isn´t bad but nothing too hot either.
when I first read it it was pretty dire I have to say littered with spelling mistakes, bad grammar and jokes that were obviously lifted off the internet.
it has however improved a lot in the last few issues but given that it´s viewpoint and style was based around the anti'gunther (yawn yawn) thing and was in all likehood written by the same people who regularly post here you have to wonder how representive of fans it were? a bit too undergradish just yet though, some parts reminded me of the college gazette
as for the club programme it was declined a lot I felt. that said it is still better than the rubbish produced by bohs and few others.
the best programme I have read was cobh's one a few years ago and pat's present one
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
I don't have any beef with fanzines other than that they are, by and large operating to an 'anti' formula and are fairly unimaginative.
Thats right yeah Donie! Stupid unimaginative fanzines. The programme is just soooooo imaginative.:rolleyes:
The Donie Forde
11/02/2003, 4:57 PM
Originally posted by Colm
Thats right yeah Donie! Stupid unimaginative fanzines. The programme is just soooooo imaginative.:rolleyes:
Colm, I never claimed the programme was overly imaginative, but I do believe that the pro-fanzine people (?anti-programme) would wanna get a life and realise that a lot of what fanzines are about is hardly original. A lot of it is repetitive and done elsewhere...a lot of what is done in fanzines (generally) is just anti-stuff, or even insulting stuff - it's not particularly creative. Some of it is very funny, I agree, but, like it's nothing to write home about a lot of the time.
There have been fair criticisms of the programme in this thread, and a few that I would consider to be off the mark (just my opinion), but you know, fanzines have their flaws and drawbacks too, and their limits.
The original fanzines were great, they were of their time and filled a necessary gap in the culture, like punk if you like. But in many cases they have had their day or are merely attempting to emulate their predecessors... course that's just my opinion too!
Donie
A face
12/02/2003, 1:24 AM
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Colm, I never claimed the programme was overly imaginative
Phew, you had me sweatin' for a while there fella, it is good .... but you just couldn't lie about something like that :)
I do believe that the pro-fanzine people (?anti-programme)
Would you call them that ?? To coin a phrase "different horses and different courses" .... ** my take on that ** You cant compare, they both do different things, they aint in the same race, they appeal to different people, you do not put one against the other
would wanna get a life and realise that a lot of what fanzines are about is hardly original. A lot of it is repetitive and done elsewhere
Likewise sir ... alot of programs are repetitive and done elsewhere as with gardens books, and motorcar mags and even white water rafting manuals i'll have you know. I'll actually go so far as to say that if you have more than one piece of writing on a given topic then those pieces of writing will be about the same topic.
** Hold on there A face, think about what you are saying, if something is the same topic as something else then .... it .... is .... errr ..... the same ??? :D **
Sorry TDF .... can you explain your point again :D
...a lot of what is done in fanzines (generally) is just anti-stuff, or even insulting stuff - it's not particularly creative. Some of it is very funny, I agree, but, like it's nothing to write home about a lot of the time.
Not creative, depends .... i wont say you are making a sweaping statement but if you were to apologise for making one then i would accept it :)
Just anti stuff, if a fans opinion is anti stuff then there is nothing you can do about it, but i actually think it is OK, it being a fans opinion and all, remember, Fanzine = Dont sit on the fence.
There have been fair criticisms of the programme in this thread, and a few that I would consider to be off the mark (just my opinion),
And praise .... you'll have to agree. I have defended it at times and for good reason. Again ... advice is not always welcome, no matter what its intention ... i think we all know that.
but you know, fanzines have their flaws and drawbacks too, and their limits.
"A fanzine is only as good as the last letter it has recieved"
The original fanzines were great, they were of their time and filled a necessary gap in the culture, like punk if you like. But in many cases they have had their day or are merely attempting to emulate their predecessors... course that's just my opinion
Yeah, your opinion ... Kewl.
"You can never beat the originals" said your grand-dad trying to prise his jaws apart from his Werthers toffee, "you just cant beat them"
Again ... Fanzine are compiled with nothing but fans opinion, they may be repeating themselves but surely is that not fans repeating their concerns aswell. More often than not you wont find "if it aint broke then dont fix it" between their covers but that would only be because a fan could imagine something better for their club. In my opinion, where a program is PC, a fanzine is honest. Either way, we are only there for the game.
C'mon City
well said face
different things for diiferent markets
the programme ppl buy for team sheets and that kinda thing like the john o flynn exclusive they covered at the last game
the fanzine caters for a different market
i get both normally but for different reasons
The Donie Forde
12/02/2003, 9:27 AM
Originally posted by James
well said face
different things for diiferent markets
the programme ppl buy for team sheets and that kinda thing like the john o flynn exclusive they covered at the last game
the fanzine caters for a different market
i get both normally but for different reasons
I agree, James, I agree. I started the thread asking what people thought about the programme - its strengths, weaknesses and so on. I didn't ask for a comparison with the fanzine and my (subsequent) comments were about fanzines in general, not any one in particular, and only because somebody else threw it on the table.
Further back the thread somebody drew that comparison and I pointed out that if either were to become more like the other only defeated the purpose.
I also stated that criticisms made about the programme were fair, but that some were not and I challenged some of those.
I think that many posters here have opinions about programmes that *may* be misinformed (because they don't buy it), and that fanzines *do* have flaws also. I think that's fair to say?
Incidentally, I also always get the fanzine when it's available at games.
My belief is that if you want to know more about City then you will find more about the club in the programme. I ask anyone to disprove that. Thus, IMO, if you claim to be a City fan, you should buy the programme. If you only want (which is your entitlement) to consider what is in the fanzine as being info about the club then go ahead. I'll lose no sleep over that...
Finally, as raised in my initial post, I stated that money raised by the programme goes directly to the club - where does money raised by fanzine sales go?
Donie
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
My belief is that if you want to know more about City then you will find more about the club in the programme. I ask anyone to disprove that. Thus, IMO, if you claim to be a City fan, you should buy the programme. If you only want (which is your entitlement) to consider what is in the fanzine as being info about the club then go ahead. I'll lose no sleep over that...
Finally, as raised in my initial post, I stated that money raised by the programme goes directly to the club - where does money raised by fanzine sales go?
Donie
Iam all for the club programme 100%. it is cerainly more important than any fanzine and given a choice I would buy the programme first and foremost. from my point of view it is the only link I can gain information in regard to the club and anorak I am I do like collecting them. the fanzine even in comparsion to other fanzines is only ok but fair play to the guys who write it ' even though their viewponts are certainly not those of the fans.
as for the programme i do feel it has declined in the last season. like the club itself I would prefer a greater association with the programme and the wider cork football public. the stats stuff is very good but less about the boys in green please and more about what the club are doing to become more community oriented. also a bit more colour wouldn´t go amiss. as i said before pat´s and rovers are excellant programmes.
nevertheless great credit is due to the writers and contributors:D
The Donie Forde
12/02/2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by dalo
as for the programme i do feel it has declined in the last season. like the club itself I would prefer a greater association with the programme and the wider cork football public. the stats stuff is very good but less about the boys in green please and more about what the club are doing to become more community oriented. also a bit more colour wouldn´t go amiss. as i said before pat´s and rovers are excellant programmes.
nevertheless great credit is due to the writers and contributors:D
How do you feel it has declined, dalo? I'm genuinely interested to know what people feel are its down points.
I think the extra colour is a cost thing?
Donie
i do feel the look and feel of the programme is a small bit tired.
1. the manager should have a column in the programme as well as BL. the failure of gunther to do this was shocking
2. less anaylsis of the boys in green. perhaps a wider look at how the league race is faring' not just the bohs of the world but the athlones as well
3. print headings and so on -appearance needs to be looked at all times. any graphic design student would do the job at half the price and with twice the flair
4. what about a players piece where by a player tells us every week about his routine etc
5. tell us what city are doing to promote themsleves as a genuine club of the citizens of cork- this is vital. we should see ourselves as the team of the city and of the people
6. maybe even a slightly more fanzine approach to the programme. this can be acheived without undermining the intregity of the club and the programme. a interview with city´s more well known and less well known fans' i am sure creedon and son would like to write a few words
7. more focus on the underage teams and the players
8. a nostaglia piece on games past written from the perspective of fans who were there. a piece on famous players. we have a rich soccer past- promote it
9. more definite focus on the marketing of the club- aim higher than tony´s fine clothing
10. promote all the items that in their own way promote the club www.foot.ie, 4-5-1- together we are stronger.
11. more emphasis on promoting qulaity merchandise.
I wrote all thses off the top of my head' maybe it´s all b*** I don´t know. a difficult balance I know to be both inclusive, local and professional. however the programme is a vital link between club and fan and should be kept fresh at all times.
in fact the programme should reflect the ethos ofthe club and also promote it.
The Donie Forde
12/02/2003, 11:48 AM
Thanks for getting back, dalo!
i do feel the look and feel of the programme is a small bit tired.
In fairness, they added an extra bit of colour this season + changed the format a bit too
1. the manager should have a column in the programme as well as BL. the failure of gunther to do this was shocking
Would a manager's bit add anything, do you think? Would it not just be cliché upon cliché?
2. less anaylsis of the boys in green.
I think a lot of people like to get another view of the national team scene, other than the newspapers'
perhaps a wider look at how the league race is faring' not just the bohs of the world but the athlones as well
Yeah, that's fair enough...
3. print headings and so on -appearance needs to be looked at all times. any graphic design student would do the job at half the price and with twice the flair
If you say so, but is that a big problem for prog buyers/non-buyers?
4. what about a players piece where by a player tells us every week about his routine etc
Fairly boring by week 2, assuming they'll all have similar routines...but I see what you're getting at...
5. tell us what city are doing to promote themsleves as a genuine club of the citizens of cork- this is vital. we should see ourselves as the team of the city and of the people
Agreed
6. maybe even a slightly more fanzine approach to the programme. this can be acheived without undermining the intregity of the club and the programme. a interview with city´s more well known and less well known fans' i am sure creedon and son would like to write a few words
Pandering to already well-inflated egos?...
7. more focus on the underage teams and the players
U21s good coverage this season, U17s & 18s - nothing. Good point.
8. a nostaglia piece on games past written from the perspective of fans who were there. a piece on famous players. we have a rich soccer past- promote it
City progs have a fairly good record in that area, I'd say, tho maybe not the season just gone
9. more definite focus on the marketing of the club- aim higher than tony´s fine clothing
More a club than programme issue?
10. promote all the items that in their own way promote the club www.foot.ie, 4-5-1- together we are stronger.
I can see the club having a prob with promoting 451...
11. more emphasis on promoting qulaity merchandise.
Yeah, could be better
Thanks, dalo!
Donie
FourFiveOne
12/02/2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by The Donie Forde
Finally, as raised in my initial post, I stated that money raised by the programme goes directly to the club - where does money raised by fanzine sales go?
'TDF', you should know as well as anyone how expensive it is to print anything. That is a monthly cost along with others.
You may also have noticed that FourFiveOne have a 20 foot banner hanging at the back of the Shed. You may remember a free issue for the televised Derry City game the season before last. The intention there was the create a 'Sea of Red' by giving out a free red fanzine. It didn't work very well but it cost money. We also spent a lot of money last season on flares and smoke, which were used throughout the season. Unless you have been under a rock for the last 2 months you'll know that FourFiveOne are currently putting all their efforts and funds into getting three Serie A style flags for the start of next season. We already have purchased two large drums from TIFO.
Two of the main reasons the fanzine was set up was:
1. to give ordinary City fans a voice
2. to try and create a better atmosphere at the Cross from any money raised (hence the flares, smoke, banners, flags etc.)
In response to claims from you 'TDF', and also earlier from 'dalo' that FourFiveOne does not represent the views of the City supporters (and that it's only the views of the FourFiveOne lads) I would point out that 75% of each months fanzine is made from articles and gags submitted by contributors that are not involved with the fanzine. 99% of articles that are submitted (provided they are not OTT) are printed.
FourFiveOne has recently taken a lot of criticism for it's anti-Murphy tone but we keep pointing out that in the two years that FourFiveOne has existed we have only ever received ONE article standing up for Liam Murphy. And it was printed.
Interestingly we have not yet recieved an article from 'dalo' or, to the best of my knowledge, 'The Donie Forde'.
Aside: we will stop taking votes on the BEST 3 BIG FLAGS (http://fourfiveone.net/flags.html) at 6pm today. Next step is to get the material and sew 'em together!
The Donie Forde
12/02/2003, 12:38 PM
In response to claims from you, and also earlier from 'dalo' that FourFiveOne does not represent the views of the City supporters (and that it's only the views of the FourFiveOne lads)
And I said that...where? I think you have confused me with another poster, I never suggested that. Ah, facts or rumours :)
Obviously, printing costs - never suggested otherwise. My sole point there is that the club benefits from the programme, it does not from the fanzine...maybe it's just something people should bear in mind. Like, personally, I'm not pushed if you're buying beer with it, or paying for petrol on away trips...just stating that, at the end of the day, there is no financial return for the club.
Why get sarcastic with me? I've already pointed out I don't have a beef with 451...why get all defensive about it?
I realise you have a 'big flag fund' and that you tried other things to improve the atmosphere...fair play.
I'm not your enemy here, I'm sussing feedback on the programme front.
And, BTW, the programme regularly accepts articles from fans also...
Slán,
Donie
The Donie Forde
12/02/2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Conor74
75% submitted by those not involved with the fanzine? That would suggest that the fanzine really is the voice of City fans, and not merely of Noelle and advertisiers. How would that compare with the programme there, TDF?
There was a list of programme contributors in the last programme v UCD. Read it and ask yourself how many of those are involved with the programme, or even CCFC. Off the top of my head I'd give it 75%...
The voice of the fans - self proclaimed voice of the fans, I can live with. It's just a little rich to insist that you are when you hardly received a mandate...
And before you ask, no the programme doesn't claim to represent tha fans but it is there for them. Fans are welcome to contribute, assuming what they have to contribute is constructive/coherent, balanced and not littered with invective.
There is a place here for the programme AND the fanzine - I have never suggested otherwise, and I would be genuinely disappointed if 451 ceased to exist. I don't agree with everything that's in it, but it has its plusses...
The Donie Forde
Originally posted by FourFiveOne
Gerry, you should know as well as anyone how expensive it is to print anything. That is a monthly cost along with others.
You may also have noticed that FourFiveOne have a 20 foot banner hanging at the back of the Shed. You may remember a free issue for the televised Derry City game the season before last. The intention there was the create a 'Sea of Red' by giving out a free red fanzine. It didn't work very well but it cost money. We also spent a lot of money last season on flares and smoke, which were used throughout the season. Unless you have been under a rock for the last 2 months you'll know that FourFiveOne are currently putting all their efforts and funds into getting three Serie A style flags for the start of next season. We already have purchased two large drums from TIFO.
Two of the main reasons the fanzine was set up was:
1. to give ordinary City fans a voice
2. to try and create a better atmosphere at the Cross from any money raised (hence the flares, smoke, banners, flags etc.)
In response to claims from you Gerry, and also earlier from 'dalo' that FourFiveOne does not represent the views of the City supporters (and that it's only the views of the FourFiveOne lads) I would point out that 75% of each months fanzine is made from articles and gags submitted by contributors that are not involved with the fanzine. 99% of articles that are submitted (provided they are not OTT) are printed.
FourFiveOne has recently taken a lot of criticism for it's anti-Murphy tone but we keep pointing out that in the two years that FourFiveOne has existed we have only ever received ONE article standing up for Liam Murphy. And it was printed.
Interestingly we have not yet recieved an article from 'dalo' or, to the best of my knowledge, 'The Donie Forde'.
Aside: we will stop taking votes on the BEST 3 BIG FLAGS (http://fourfiveone.net/flags.html) at 6pm today. Next step is to get the material and sew 'em together!
eh man chill out don't be so Gerard Houllier (defensive) I have nothing against 4-5-1. jesus I even buy it on a regular basis and i have added one or two very small contributions to it.
why should I contribute to it on a large scale? if I buy it surely I am entitled to a opinion- anyway if I did write something surely that helps u more than me. Celver ploy!!!!
No i don't believe it is representive of city fans though the views of it's contributors are generally representive of the mag. there is a difference you know. the difference of the city programme and yours is that the city programme represents the reality of the club yours represents a type of reality.
still I am all in favour of the fanzine - best of luck to ye
An independent voice is needed for all things and for Cork City it is the voice of the fanzine.
The people involved are genuine supporters of the club who would love nothing better than to have only good things, and good days to write about, but are willing to point out the faults as they see it, in order that things might improve.
I would hate to see either the programme or the fanzine stop. I think both are necessary. It is important that fans have an arena to air their views but it is also important that the club have such a medium.
The Donie Forde
12/02/2003, 3:06 PM
Originally posted by Conor74
You're talking about my articles, aren't you.
Ahhh ya old sweet talker ya.
Well, naturally, Conor - what else would it be? :)
Donie
The Donie Forde
12/02/2003, 3:08 PM
Originally posted by niamh
An independent voice is needed for all things and for Cork City it is the voice of the fanzine.
The people involved are genuine supporters of the club who would love nothing better than to have only good things, and good days to write about, but are willing to point out the faults as they see it, in order that things might improve.
I would hate to see either the programme or the fanzine stop. I think both are necessary. It is important that fans have an arena to air their views but it is also important that the club have such a medium.
Words of wisdom, Niamh, words of wisdom.
Donie
As a few people have already suggested, I too believe that both the programme and the fanzine serve a place.
TDF, you said earlier that people who are "pro fanzine" are "anti programme". I would strongly disagree with that sentiment, I in fact would believe the opposite to be true. I think that most of the people who buy the zine would also buy the programme and vice versa.
A face
12/02/2003, 5:27 PM
Fair play for you the Donie Ford. You have done well in this debate and kept the head, i mean it must be fustrating for you, as you seem to have you back up over there actually being a fanzine, maybe cos it affects your sales. Either way you have fought your corner, we'll give you that.
C'mon City !!
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