National Anthem played in pubs [Archive]

Dodge

30/04/2007, 12:14 PM

I was in a pub in a village in Kildare on Saturday night with the gf, and another couple (who live there). Just an average local pub with a two piece "band" on playing the usual pub standards. Anyway at the end of the gig they played the national anthem. The two girls in our foursome stayed sitting. As soon as the song was over a farmer type came over to ask why they didn't get up; "Are ye Irish or what!?!". They ignored him and he went off muttering about foreigners (they're both Irish BTW)

Personally I think its a disgrace the anthem is used in this way and think it should be kept for occasions of some importance (rather than to indicate the end of some poor pub band/DJ set) but I'll stand up as I know there are idiots looking ot give me grief if I don't.

Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on it? If you were in that pub, what would have thought of the girls? Would you have said something? Do you think I'm treating the anthem with too much respect?

(BTW I've put this in current affairs rather than off topic as it has some sort of political edge to it)

Lionel Ritchie

30/04/2007, 12:26 PM

I started a thread on this over on OWC a good while back to see if the "inverse" happens up north. Down here the practice seems to happen a fair bit the closer to the border you are and dissipates the further south you go ...with notable exceptions I'm sure.

Here in Limerick I've only heard the anthem at things like weddings. In Monaghan I've heard it Nightclubs and pubs.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the practice as it strikes me as in inappropriate forum to be goading the super-gaels.

dahamsta

30/04/2007, 12:33 PM

They play it in the Commodore in Cobh at the end of the dishco too, but then they still have slow sets in there.

pineapple stu

30/04/2007, 12:49 PM

Heard it in nightclubs often enough - thought it was pretty much traditional to end the night with it, especially outside Dublin.

A pub is a different matter though - you've paid in to sit and drink, not to listen to somebody playing away, so it'd be very annoying to suddenly have the anthem thrown at you for no reason.

anto1208

30/04/2007, 12:50 PM

It really is a country thing , Everything used to finish off a night with the anthem, RTE used to have it on last thing before they closed for the night , It used to be on in cinemas etc etc

I think it was very poor form out of the women not standing up , when in rome and all that stuff .If thats what they do in that pub and you want to go drinking in there then have a little respect for the place . Same goes for you they arent idiots for giving people showing a complete lack of manners a bit of grief .

osarusan

30/04/2007, 1:12 PM

Heard it in lots of pubs and a few nightclubs, but dont really like the idea. Should only be played when something related to our identity as a nation is going on.
Reminds me............when I was in Uni in Maynooth, I watched Ireland v. England in the 6Nations in a pub called "The Roost" (anybody who's been to Uni there will know where I'm talking about), and there were 3 or 4 English guys in front of the screen. And when the English anthem came on, the barmen muted the volume for the duration of it. I thought it was one of the most stupid, pathetic, misguided attempts at patriotism I'd ever seen, and I still do.

Eoingull

30/04/2007, 1:28 PM

Mixing the National Anthem with alcohol has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. I get goosebumps like (probably) most other Irish folk, but I am uncomfortable with it being played in pubs. Maybe St. Patrick's Day is okay, but that's about it. I am also against it being played at weddings. I don't like seeing a load of drunk people get all self-righteous and indulging in what I perceive to be mock-Patriotism.

Dodge

30/04/2007, 1:28 PM

I think it was very poor form out of the women not standing up , when in rome and all that stuff .If thats what they do in that pub and you want to go drinking in there then have a little respect for the place.
One of the girls is a regular in that pub and the band that played there on Saturday played for the first time. Its the band's ritual, not the pub. Oh and the bloke who had a go isn't a regular either

Same goes for you they arent idiots for giving people showing a complete lack of manners a bit of grief .
It wasn't lack of manners, they were making a point of not standing up(for the reasons I gave above). One of he girls is hugely nationalistic, she just thinks its ridiculous to play the national anthem in a pub.

Its not a country thing as I've heard it loads and loads of times in Dublin. Not in a whike but thats probably more down to my social life than anything else

BohsPartisan

30/04/2007, 1:30 PM

Should only be played when something related to our identity as a nation is going on.

Pub seems like the perfect place for it so! :D

Having said that it annoys the hell out of me too but not as much as The Fields of Athenry played by wedding bands.

WeAreRovers

30/04/2007, 1:51 PM

Its not a country thing as I've heard it loads and loads of times in Dublin. Not in a whike but thats probably more down to my social life than anything else

It was played in the fine Inchicore establishment I spent Friday night in. I'd forgotten just how 'Shameless' a night out in the 'Core is. Quality. :)

KOH

Dodge

30/04/2007, 1:54 PM

If its the Inn I'm thinking of, Shameless has nothing on it. I'd be laughed out of here if I told you some of the stories I've seen in there (in my younger days obviously)

WeAreRovers

30/04/2007, 2:07 PM

2 doors up from the H&J is the one. There were a few Pats lads in there and I thought it might get a bit lairy but all that happened was that they threw out one of the Pats fans. :)

I spent last Saturday week at the TV Now Awards followed by the VVIP* bit of Krystal (me and Colin Farrell :rolleyes: ) I hated every second of it. Fast forward 6 days I'm in an absolute kip in Inchicore and totally loving it. I may have a problem. ;)

Back on topic, I once had to prop a gypo up against a wall in a nightclub in Letterkenny when the thick Bohs eejit refused to stand for the national anthem. To this day he doesn't know how close he came to getting us all killed.

KOH

* Yes, there is a Very Very Important People section in Krystal. Tossers.

Dodge

30/04/2007, 2:12 PM

Thats not even the worst/best one in Inchicore ;)

Lionel Ritchie

30/04/2007, 2:27 PM

They play it in the Commodore in Cobh at the end of the dishco too, but then they still have slow sets in there.

Gaw-awd S-hayve Our Queen!!!:D

anto1208

30/04/2007, 2:50 PM

One of the girls is a regular in that pub and the band that played there on Saturday played for the first time. Its the band's ritual, not the pub. Oh and the bloke who had a go isn't a regular either

It wasn't lack of manners, they were making a point of not standing up(for the reasons I gave above). One of he girls is hugely nationalistic, she just thinks its ridiculous to play the national anthem in a pub.

Its not a country thing as I've heard it loads and loads of times in Dublin. Not in a whike but thats probably more down to my social life than anything else

you should have said that so , from your post i thought you where taking the pee out of the regulars for standing to the national anthem at the end of the night .

I still think she should have stood , i would have, its a mark of respect im not even irish ( by birth i am a citizen )and id have stood up for a few mins .

Dodge

30/04/2007, 2:54 PM

Well like I said I stood. Its only a couple of minutes. Just thought I'd ask here as we were talking about it yesterday. Just wanted other opinions on it...

dahamsta

30/04/2007, 3:16 PM

I think it was very poor form out of the women not standing up , when in rome and all that stuff .I'm not sure it's poor form, but it is funny how we do things, isn't it? For instance I'd probably stand for the national anthem out of some bizarre form of befuddled respect, but I steadfastly refuse to bless myself, genuflect, pray or sing in church -- because I'm not a fan of organised religion and I think it would be hypocritical. However I always stand when everyone else is standing in church, and I'm kinda hit and miss on kneeling.

We're all just confused sheep when you get right down to it.

adam

anto1208

30/04/2007, 3:29 PM

I'm not sure it's poor form, but it is funny how we do things, isn't it? For instance I'd probably stand for the national anthem out of some bizarre form of befuddled respect, but I steadfastly refuse to bless myself, genuflect, pray or sing in church -- because I'm not a fan of organised religion and I think it would be hypocritical. However I always stand when everyone else is standing in church, and I'm kinda hit and miss on kneeling.

We're all just confused sheep when you get right down to it.

adam

SING :D ,

Social compliance isn�t it , if a guy with a hat and walky talky asks you to do something you ll do it .

I dont go to church unless its a funeral or mass and im invited then ill stand and sit etc when im supposed to,its more manners than anything else .

Still ill bless myself after scoring :confused:

dahamsta

30/04/2007, 3:39 PM

The mother plays for the other side and they sing in church sometimes, so I get it at the occasional wedding, funeral, etc. Like yourself, they're the only occasions when I go to church.

Except to look at them of course, churches are generally quite cool, like many other symbols of oppression, greed and general nastiness. Churches and Stalin have a lot in common when you get right down to it.

adam

Dodge

30/04/2007, 3:44 PM

The chcurch thing is different IMO as that's respecting someone's religion. If I was invited to a Mosque I'd behave as I was told. Its notauthority I have a problem with just barstool republicanism

kingdom hoop

30/04/2007, 5:26 PM

This calls to mind something that annoyed me. I've been to Coppers (Harcourt St, Dublin) three times in the past year and each time I've been subjected to the Riverdance tune as the finale. On the first occasion there was the element of surprise and given I used to be a fine Irish dancer in my younger years, but probably more out of being drunk, meant I cavorted about the place. The other two times I swiftly departed for reasons of personal sanity, did that make me less Irish I wonder? Should I have stayed on to at least acknowledge the tune that has put Ireland on the world map of dances. A symbol of national culture and pride in our heritage that must be respected?

No. And I think we can extend this to Amhr�n na bhFiann. The reason you heard it is because of a deluded DJ/band thinking the best manifestation of their nationalistic tendencies is to play the national anthem, taking it into their own hands to stoke the embers of smouldering Irishmen. If I was to take part in a rousing rendition of our anthem after a feed of pints I think, and not even being violent, I would feel the urge to hit someone. In other words it would only result in a reified/false exhibition of a feeling that is perpetually burning inside of me. Hopefully that makes sense.

jebus

30/04/2007, 6:22 PM

I honestly can't remember ever hearing the national anthem played in any pub or club in Limerick, it all seems very Father Tedish to play it in either in my opinion. And to be honest I wouldn't stand for the anthem either, and would probably have been less polite if some old fart started grumbling at me about it

OneRedArmy

30/04/2007, 7:16 PM

Haven't heard the national anthem played for ages at the end of a night, usually the preserve of dodgy discos in Donegal and crap wedding DJs.

There's nothing remotely patriotic about banging the national anthem out to a crowd of drunk people at 3am IMHO.

Even the yanks, who play it at every opportunity, would draw the line at this.

Conor H

30/04/2007, 8:13 PM

Have never heard it any pub/club in Galway myself.

But if the Anthem is played-you stand-end of.

pineapple stu

30/04/2007, 11:23 PM

Actually, just after coming home from drinking witha few of the lads in the St John - we have cadet camps every year, and every day ends with a campfire and a few songs, and every fire ends with Amhr�n na bhFiann, without exception. So I suppose not that unusual at all.

Still think a pub is different though.

Thunderblaster

30/04/2007, 11:35 PM

In Westport, every band plays the National Anthem and it is the same score with the nightclub and the law of averages is that it is respected but it gets mocked at nightclubs with some punters performing salutes to it. Went abroad to a few countries and never heard their National Anthems played at the end of the night.

inexile

01/05/2007, 5:27 AM

i think the national anthem should only be played when it means something, i was lucky enough to represent my country and when the anthem was played it made the hairs on my neck stand up and i did a "john hayes" and sang through the tears, when it happens in a pub ill stand but its not the same

Lim till i die

01/05/2007, 10:31 AM

But if the Anthem is played-you stand-end of.

Even in a pub??

When your Pi$$ed??

Would the bold fenian men really mind if I gave it a miss :rolleyes:

noby

01/05/2007, 10:38 AM

Dotsy

01/05/2007, 10:57 AM

I kind of with Conor on this: if it's played I'll stand. The real question is if two schmoes playing a couple of tunes in a pub have the right to play it. Perhaps they're the ones disrespecting the anthem by using it as their finale.

I have always found it disrespectful to play it an a pub or nightclub and would never stand up for it in those circumstances. I'd imagine that in many countries the band would be lynched for disrepecting their athem by playing it in totally inappropriate circumstances.

Similar in a lot of ways to defacing the tricolour. In alot of countries this would be a complete no no. I worked in Latvia for a couple of years. When one bloke was leaving some of the lads bought him a Latvian flag and they all wrote going away messages on it. When they produced it at his going away party in a restaurant they were nearly lynched. Apparently it is also against the law and they were lucky not to end up in a police cell through the intervention of a couple of the Latvians we worked with.

superfrank

01/05/2007, 12:18 PM

I think it's stupid to play it in a nightclub/pub. I've never heard it in a pub/club out here and, believe it or not, Bray is fast becoming a hotbed of Nationalism.

I've only ever heard it at football matches (cup finals and internationals), a 1798 memorial service in St. Patrick's in Wicklow town and on Paddy's Day. I've never heard it at a wedding or funeral. That one seems a bit odd to me.

I do have a few funny stories regarding the anthem though:

I was once a member of a youth group called Cumann na bhFiann and after every two hour get together where we spoke Irish, we had to stand up for the anthem. Bear in mind this was in a dingy hall in St. Killian's with about ten teenagers and a tape recorder playing the tune.

At last year's cup final I was part of the Bray group that went onto the pitch beofre the start of the match and once the teams came out, we all had to stand for the national anthem. Now I always thought you faced in the direction of Government buildings if in Dublin. So it surprised me when I faced North and everyone else faced South towards the flagpoles. :o Needless to say I quickly turned around.

pineapple stu

01/05/2007, 12:21 PM

Now I always thought you faced in the direction of Government buildings if in Dublin.
Why on earth would you have thought that?!

superfrank

01/05/2007, 12:25 PM

Why on earth would you have thought that?!
I honestly don't know. I always face in the direction of Dublin when I stand for it and I thought in Dublin you face the direction of Government buildings. I suppose it's in a similar vein to Muslims facing towards Mecca for prayer, or the Kabba if in Mecca.

pineapple stu

01/05/2007, 12:38 PM

Sounds to me more like a case of Dublin-wannabe-itis. ;)

OneRedArmy

01/05/2007, 12:40 PM

Now I always thought you faced in the direction of Government buildings if in Dublin. Good luck with that when decentralisation is in place.....

superfrank

01/05/2007, 1:15 PM

Sounds to me more like a case of Dublin-wannabe-itis. ;)
I never thought I'd see the day when the Dubs started with that ol' nonsense.

the 12 th man

01/05/2007, 1:18 PM

I honestly don't know. I always face in the direction of Dublin.

If there's a flag present you stand facing it.

smellyfeet

01/05/2007, 3:13 PM

Its the National Anthem, so when it is played you stand.

OneRedArmy

01/05/2007, 3:16 PM

Its the National Anthem, so when it is played you stand.I must have missed that bit in the Constitution/statute book.

Dotsy

01/05/2007, 3:57 PM

Its the National Anthem, so when it is played you stand.

Right so, if you were sitting outside a pub having a pint and a busker came up and started playing the National Anthem you would stand up for it:rolleyes: There is a time and place for it to be played and a pub at the end of the night is not one of them. It's not disrespectful to remain seated in that case, it's disrespectful to play it in the first place.

BohsPartisan

01/05/2007, 4:10 PM

anyone ever see the Al Murray bit on God Save the Queen where he repeatedly made a punter in the front row get up and sing it to save Lizzie from one ridiculous life threatening situation after another. Bloody hilarious!

GavinZac

01/05/2007, 5:19 PM

If I was invited to a Mosque I'd behave as I was told.Take off your shoes, stand at the back, and shut up? Why would you be in a mosque? :D

I always stand for my national anthem, but then, its usually at city matches and I always stand at city matches, so its not any extra effort to stand for De Banks.

It is, however, unfortunate that both of my national anthems convey such a hidden (in the Republic's case, hidden only by the veil of an obscure dead language) nasty militarism. Most are I suppose, especially given that nationalism was born out of a need to give troops something to die for when fighting someone of your own religion.

So, in that round about way, I do stand and sing Amhrann na bhfiann, in pubs or otherwise, but more of a "i do quite like where I live" sort of way, rather than a "i'm drunk and i would glady emerge from the trenches to defeat the saxon foe" kind of way.

Marked Man

01/05/2007, 6:15 PM

I've heard it a few times in Dublin, after trad sets mostly. There was a place on the south end of Capel St. called Slattery's (I think) that used to have traditional bands, and they would sometimes play it. Being young and idealistic, I wouldn't stand (after all, I'm not actually a soldier, so why would I sing that I am?). One night some bloke from Northern Ireland took great offence at this and had to be dragged off me.
After that, for a while I would answer the "why aren't you standing" question with "I'll stand when the country is whole again," which, while not strictly true, tended to satisfy the types who would ask why I wasn't standing.

Nowadays I'm old and tired, and I tend to stand. It's just easier.

smellyfeet

03/05/2007, 12:28 PM

Right so, if you were sitting outside a pub having a pint and a busker came up and started playing the National Anthem you would stand up for it:rolleyes: There is a time and place for it to be played and a pub at the end of the night is not one of them. It's not disrespectful to remain seated in that case, it's disrespectful to play it in the first place.

TBH that busker thing would never happen:eek: , but if it did i'd stand as tall as i could:). I wouldn't find it disrespectful if Anthem is played and you stayed seated, nor would i if someone played it in a pub. Still thats my opinion , + you shouldn't take it so seriously.