foot.ie on sunderland forum

[Lim till i die]

Still better that yourself & Claret Murph can feel superior to Sunderland supporteers than half a dozen Irish players get the chance to play at the top level.

If they're good enough to play at a higher level they'll get their chance with or without Sunderland :rolleyes:

[dcfcsteve]

If they're good enough to play at a higher level they'll get their chance with or without Sunderland :rolleyes:

Precisely.

And why should I be chastened into altering my views on this, dependent upon what's allegedly best for the ROI team ?

Bull-sh!t - I care more about Irish club footbal, than I do for it's International variety. You may wish to force a contraditction upon me, but I sure as hell don't accept that there is one myself.... :rolleyes:

[geysir]

For the most part in this forum we discuss the players who are in or around the national squads at all age levels.
I have mixed feelings, from sneering at the overblown hype and wishing the players get through to next level and then the dread of even more hype. I just can't listen to it. If the Sunderland shop sold Keane árse wipes I might order a few packs.
I'd be curious to see if Keane's public endorsement of the superiority of Connolly and Miller over other members of our team has even a grain of sincerity from Keane.

[citizenerased]

why are ye all so bitter towards Sunderland,?? The old Irish begrudgery is out in force again...If your so committed to your own EL club why would what Sunderland are up to even concern let alone offend you..I only care about the fortunes of the Irish National team, and Sunderland getting promoted is pivitol in this.

Im sick of all yer ****ing ****e about the Eircom League, its not Roy Keanes(greatest irish player ever) fault that its an absolute shambles of a setup...sickens my hole

[gustavo]

why are ye all so bitter towards Sunderland,?? The old Irish begrudgery is out in force again...If your so committed to your own EL club why would what Sunderland are up to even concern let alone offend you..I only care about the fortunes of the Irish National team, and Sunderland getting promoted is pivitol in this.

Im sick of all yer ****ing ****e about the Eircom League, its not Roy Keanes(greatest irish player ever) fault that its an absolute shambles of a setup...sickens my hole

How precisely is Sunderland's potential promotion "pivotal" to our future success , lets face it if and when they do get promoted I think you will find that Keane will be showing Connolly and Kavanagh the door or at least replacing them with players that are better , some of whom , shock horror , mightnt even be Irish.

[Collyontour]

why are ye all so bitter towards Sunderland,?? The old Irish begrudgery is out in force again...If your so committed to your own EL club why would what Sunderland are up to even concern let alone offend you..I only care about the fortunes of the Irish National team, and Sunderland getting promoted is pivitol in this.

Im sick of all yer ****ing ****e about the Eircom League, its not Roy Keanes(greatest irish player ever) fault that its an absolute shambles of a setup...sickens my hole

I agree 100% with this. The only concern I have with teams getting promoted from the Championship is the amount of Irish players who may benefit. People should get over themselves.

[dcfcsteve]

why are ye all so bitter towards Sunderland,?? The old Irish begrudgery is out in force again...If your so committed to your own EL club why would what Sunderland are up to even concern let alone offend you..I only care about the fortunes of the Irish National team, and Sunderland getting promoted is pivitol in this.

Im sick of all yer ****ing ****e about the Eircom League, its not Roy Keanes(greatest irish player ever) fault that its an absolute shambles of a setup...sickens my hole

I'm not bitter towards Sunderland. I used to do voluntary work in Sunderland, have been to see them play at home this season (I watch a lot of football), and have a number of Mackem friends.

I just find it hilarious that they lost to lowly Colchester, as their legion of nouveau Oirish fans will be scratching their heads and wondering who the fcuk Colchester are and how teh hell they were alllwed to beat their new team ! I mean - losing to lowly unheard of Essex clubs wasn't on the packet when they bought the Sunderland hype....

Surely you can see how this is amusing without a hint of bitterness involved ?!? I'm not bitter in any way about Posh Spice, for example, but it would make me titter if she found herself in some misfortune caused by her endless pursuit of fame without talent. Things like that are just funny.....

[pete]

Did anyone else share my joy in Sunderland being well beaten on the weekend ?

Now - I'm no Sunderland hater by any means, and would usually be apathetic towards their results.


TBH I usually check their results to see what Irish players played & hope for a lose. Many may not agree with me but I do like to see Sunderland lose.

I just don't know how else to react when Aer Arann start a Galway-Newcastle service & advertise as suitable for the Sunderland bandwagon.

Keane will do well to get them promoted but Mick McCarthy achieved that a few years ago with such a poor team they out of their depth in the Premiership.

[youngirish]

Bull-sh!t - I care more about Irish club footbal, than I do for it's International variety. You may wish to force a contraditction upon me, but I sure as hell don't accept that there is one myself.... :rolleyes:
So you'd rather a team run by English, managed by English and full of English players beat a team run, managed and with a playing staff full of your own countrymen? Good one.

You're not by any chance a mate of EalingGreen are you?

Keane is a tit but I'll always support Irish players playing abroad above players of other nationalities particularly when their success can have a direct effect on the International team.

[neutrino]

How precisely is Sunderland's potential promotion "pivotal" to our future success , lets face it if and when they do get promoted I think you will find that Keane will be showing Connolly and Kavanagh the door or at least replacing them with players that are better , some of whom , shock horror , mightnt even be Irish.

yip it's true. most of the irish players can expect to be release if sunderland did get promoted. the only ones that would prob be kept on would be murphy,stokes and miller. so it's hardly pivotal to the irish national team.

Also,there's been too many posts on this sunderland thing. people here will look out for their results becuase of the whole irish thing and i doubt there's much wrong with that. I hardly think people who go to the EL games are gonna stop and go to Sunderland. There'll always be those arm-chair supporters who jump on any bandwagon and those same people will never be EL supporters. Seems to be a fair degree of paranoia from some people on here for whatever reason. I'll always support the EL. Another thread title reads 'Irish UK Club Football Bangwagon Jumpers -Irish Footballs Number 1 enemy ' - From reading all the stuff about it on here then maybe Irish footballs number 1 enemy is Irish football itself.

[Dr. Ogba]

Jaysus lads there some amount of "holier than thou" bullsh*t on this thread (even more so than usual). Get off yer high horses and give it a rest will yez....

[OneRedArmy]

So you'd rather a team frun by English, managed by English and full of English players beat a team run, managed and with a playing staff full of your countrymen? Good one.When both the teams play in a foreign league surely its bloody irrelevant who wins?!

The "its good for international football" argument is also complete reverse justification crap.

Irish people will drag up any excuse they can lay their hands on to avoid acknowledging they choose football teams the way the rest of us choose a new car.

[youngirish]

When both the teams play in a foreign league surely its bloody irrelevant who wins?!

The "its good for international football" argument is also complete reverse justification crap.

Irish people will drag up any excuse they can lay their hands on to avoid acknowledging they choose football teams the way the rest of us choose a new car.
I don't support any English team but I like to see teams that contain a significant amount of Irish players doing well.

By your logic though I shouldn't be bothered as it's good to see teams full of Irish international (or potential International) players losing because when they are playing for s*it teams in the lower leagues it won't affect the International team in the slightest.

Are you on crack?

The portion of the EL brigade (not all but a portion) who are up their own ar*e and know nothing about football outside their own little world annoy me more than the jump on the bandwagon types. At least most of them realise they don't have a clue.

[shakermaker1982]

geez the knives are out for Keano and his boys..... so what if people want to go over and support the team? Yeah it would be nice if they all went to support their local football clubs but until Irish sides can start competing with English sides financially then they'll always go for the razmatazz of the PL. A bloody shame but the way of the world.

A successful Sunderland squad full of Irish players will hopefully have a knock on effect for 'OUR' national team. I hope they go on to bigger things personally.

[neutrino]

Irish people will drag up any excuse they can lay their hands on to avoid acknowledging they choose football teams the way the rest of us choose a new car.

great way of putting it. when asked "why do u support uk club x" ? you hardly if ever hear "cos i'm from there" .:D it's always some story of how the club relates back to them.

[paul_oshea]

i think sunderland will give irish players a greater chance than other clubs, thats how i would see what citizen is saying has validity, other clubs dont have the same leniency to Ireland and Irish players, thats why if SUnderland are playing in the premiership it does benefit our International team.

I think people are getting lost and blinded by the fact Sunderland are doing well and looking like they will get promoted as oppossed to Sunderland full of Irish players, a coach and Irish owned. Just think a little more lads. :)

[OneRedArmy]

I don't support any English team but I like to see temas that contain a significant amount of Irish players doing well.

By your logic though I shoudln't be bothered as it's good to see teams full of Irish international (or potential international) players losing because when they are playing for s*it teams in the lower leagues it won't affect the International team in the slightest.

Are you on crack?No, I have my hands full supporting my local team, quite frankly I don't get to enough games as it is. Football teams are like women, you're not doing it right if you have room in your life for more than one.

To address your specific point, the presence of Keane and Irwin never made me support United, O'Leary and Stapleton at Arsenal, Whelan, Beglin, Staunton at Liverpool the same. Looking further afield Brady never turned me into a Juvenista.

Tying it back to Sunderland, beyond Murphy I think I've seen enough of them over the years to know that they aren't the national teams future (or if they are, we are in for even more barren times).

[Wolfie]

'Wouldn't worry about that lot, truly they are the worst of Little Irelanders, but thankfully they're in an embarrassingly small minority. The furthest they've travelled from home is about .6 of a mile, and generally they regard Irish men who join English clubs and win Champions Leagues and such like as traitors - they'd prefer if they stayed at home working as part-time petrol pump attendants and part-time footballers, playing in a league that is so poor it's hard to know where to begin describing it. It's run and supported by people who wallow in mediocrity, because they know nothing else'

that in particular :)

A lot of the posts since this appeared have really proved the bloke wrong!!! :rolleyes:

I've a passing interest in Sunderlands results but am fairly indifferent to them. Actually wishing they lose to spite Keane is petty and small minded.

[OneRedArmy]

The portion of the EL brigade (not all but a postion) who are up their own ar*e and know nothing about football outside their own little world annoy me more than the jump on the bandwagon types. At least most of them realise they don't have a clue.Another sweeping generalisation.

Many of the fans I meet in the EL watch football all over the world and always incorporate into their travels (as I do).

Mostly because they are in it for the football, not for the razmataz and Sky-ification that has made Premiership football a largely sterile experience.

[youngirish]

Tying it back to Sunderland, beyond Murphy I think I've seen enough of them over the years to know that they aren't the national teams future (or if they are, we are in for even more barren times).
What about Elliot and Stokes? Far better players than Murphy.

[dcfcsteve]

So you'd rather a team run by English, managed by English and full of English players beat a team run, managed and with a playing staff full of your own countrymen? Good one.

Ehhh ? Have you been out in the sun too long YI ? As I clearly said - I care more for Irish club football than I do the international variety. That doesn't mean I don't give a **** about international football. I also care more about dogs thna I do cats -but that doesn't meazn I want to go out and skin alive the first feline I can find.

I actually go to alot of Ireland games, especially away. But it's just not as important to me as the domestic game is. So I will always look at things with more concern regarding their impact on the domestic game than the international one. So calm down - you'll give yourself high blood pressure blowing a fuse over inoccuous things like this.

And show me the club in Ireland that meets your nonsense criteria above anyway ? Conversely - I could name you long periods in which the Irish international team were managed by English, contained large numbers of British etc. Not that it really matters anyway - I'm into football, not ethnic cleansing....


Keane is a tit but I'll always support Irish players playing abroad above players of other nationalities particularly when their success can have a direct effect on the International team.

I just don't care about Irish players abroad. I guess if pushed to declare an interest, I'd rather they did well than not, but I don't care. I don't feel that I should be all that artifically concerned for someone's welfare and progress just because they were born on the same island as me.

[OneRedArmy]

What about Elliot and Stokes? Far better players than Murphy.Forgot about Stokes. He certainly has the potential.

Include Elliot in the previously mentioned category. I've seen enough of him not to rate him, unless he has a road to Damascus type moment which turns him into a quality footballer.

[OwlsFan]

Quite frankly, other than Stokes, none of the Irish at Sunderland is likely to progress to International regulars and the jury is still out on Stokes. However, Wolves, also with an Irish manager, have the potential of Keogh and Ward.

For those of you interested, there is an article on Keane and his wanting to keep players happy in today's Daily Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/04/25/sfnsun25.xml

[paul_oshea]

I just don't care about Irish players abroad. I guess if pushed to declare an interest, I'd rather they did well than not, but I don't care. I don't feel that I should be all that artifically concerned for someone's welfare and progress just because they were born on the same island as me.

That is a very honest opinion given the fact that you live away from the island, and Irish people by nature ( force of habit, go with what you know etc ) stick together and become more proud to be Irish the further away they go....


I just don't care about Irish players abroad. I guess if pushed to declare an interest, I'd rather they did well than not, but I don't care.

Here is where I am confused however, I mean to what degree to you prefer cats to Dogs? Its all relative really. It all depends on how much you REALLY care about club football in Ireland, how much you care about the Ireland national team and finally to what ratio do you care about Ireland as a national team to Irish - club - football?

[eirebhoy]

I just find it hilarious that they lost to lowly Colchester, as their legion of nouveau Oirish fans will be scratching their heads and wondering who the fcuk Colchester are and how teh hell they were alllwed to beat their new team ! I mean - losing to lowly unheard of Essex clubs wasn't on the packet when they bought the Sunderland hype....

I think most of us are more interested in what's going on at Sunderland since Keane got the job but does anyone seriously know a grown adult that only started supported Sunderland this season? I very much doubt it.

[dcfcsteve]

That is a very honest opinion given the fact that you live away from the island, and Irish people by nature ( force of habit, go with what you know etc ) stick together and become more proud to be Irish the further away they go....

You obviously gravitate towards what you know when you're away form home, and a lot of my friends in England would be Irish. But I'm friends with them because I like them, not because they're Irish. Some of them just happen to be Irish as well. Why should I have an interest in Seamus O'Flaherty at London United Rovers or whatever, just because he was born on the same island as me ? I'd never meet the guy, he's be from a different generation and part of the country than me, and our lives would be totally different ! I don't feel the need to treat everyone Irish as unduly worthy of my attentions and support, and think it is slavishly peculiar to do so.


Here is where I am confused however, I mean to what degree to you prefer cats to Dogs? Its all relative really. It all depends on how much you REALLY care about club football in Ireland, how much you care about the Ireland national team and finally to what ratio do you care about Ireland as a national team to Irish - club - football?

The priority list would look as folow :

1) Derry City FC
2) Eircom League
3) Dogs (may increase to a level 2 priority if I actually get one..)
4) Ireland international team
11) Cats
251) The Black Cts of Sunderland (Newcastle United would be higher)

P.S. - Are you still looking after that shirt of mine boyo ? :D I haven't pulled since I lost it....

[dcfcsteve]

I think most of us are more interested in what's going on at Sunderland since Keane got the job but does anyone seriously know a grown adult that only started supported Sunderland this season? I very much doubt it.

Who do you think are filling those Aer Arann flights then ? School Trips ? The cast of Lord of the Flies ??

[eirebhoy]

You obviously gravitate towards what you know when you're away form home, and a lot of my friends in England would be Irish. But I'm friends with them because I like them, not because they're Irish. Some of them just happen to be Irish as well. Why should I have an interest in Seamus O'Flaherty at London United Rovers or whatever, just because he was born on the same island as me ? I'd never meet the guy, he's be from a different generation and part of the country than me, and our lives would be totally different ! I don't feel the need to treat everyone Irish as unduly worthy of my attentions and support, and think it is slavishly peculiar to do so.
You can't be serious? You should have seen the parties in Spain when Fernando Alonso won the championship. Or the pubs in this country when Ken Doherty won the World Championships. I absolutely loved to see Damien Duff destroy players in the Champions league during his first couple of season at Chelsea. Nakamura has been all over the front pages of the Japanese papers over the last few days. It's just part of being patriotic. How is it peculiar?

[NeilMcD]

Anyone on for heading over to Sunderland for the match on Friday. I will arrange the charter plane for a laugh or maybe we can all book Aer Arann, who is up for it or maybe I will fly up to Derry on Friday evening

[OneRedArmy]

I think most of us are more interested in what's going on at Sunderland since Keane got the job but does anyone seriously know a grown adult that only started supported Sunderland this season? I very much doubt it.I saw about 50 of them in Dublin airport a few weeks ago.

Although in fairness the emergence of the Irish cricket team as the next bandwagon has been making ridiculous demands on their time recently.....

[youngirish]

dcfcSteve why do you gravitate towards Derry? Would it be because you grew up in the locale, watched them play from a young age, know people and have an affinity with people who also share your love for them?

We support Ireland for the same reason but on an International level instead of a national one.

We are not so different you and I young Skywalker.

Nationalism is the way to go man. Tribalism is so Stone Age.

[eirebhoy]

I saw about 50 of them in Dublin airport a few weeks ago.

Although in fairness the emergence of the Irish cricket team as the next bandwagon has been making ridiculous demands on their time recently.....
I seriously doubt those 50 fans didn't care less about Sunderland last season though. It was the same when Abramovich took Chelsea over. I didn't see any 20, 30, 40 year old's start supporting Chelsea then but you'll see plenty of kids supporting them.

As for the cricket team. I was on that bandwagon from the start of the world cup. I hadn't a clue about the rules beforehand but learnt most of them in the first few hours watching Ireland - Zimbabwe. I can tell you my heart was pumping at the end of that match.

[paul_oshea]

But I'm friends with them because I like them, not because they're Irish. Some of them just happen to be Irish as well. Why should I have an interest in Seamus O'Flaherty at London United Rovers or whatever, just because he was born on the same island as me ? I'd never meet the guy, he's be from a different generation and part of the country than me, and our lives would be totally different ! I don't feel the need to treat everyone Irish as unduly worthy of my attentions and support, and think it is slavishly peculiar to do so.

I don't really understand this, I mean how do you know you wouldnt get on with Seamus O'flaherty if you have never spoken to him, surely some of your irish friends over here are from a different part of the country and a different generation? My point was you inherently look out for your own, as we have a common bond as such, therefore you do find that quite a lot of your friends are irish because you share a lot of things in common with them/same sort of characteristics etc.

Dont worry I still have the shirt, though it didnt work in sweden ;) Even if maribor said dont bring an apple to the orchard.....and the pulling part, you have Pamela at the end of the day, I am pretty sure you go running back to her in times of need ;)

[NY Hoop]

Another sweeping generalisation.

Many of the fans I meet in the EL watch football all over the world and always incorporate into their travels (as I do).

Mostly because they are in it for the football, not for the razmataz and Sky-ification that has made Premiership football a largely sterile experience.

Totally agree with your points.

Cant understand any Irish person that wants to see an english side playing another side and wanting them to win or lose. It doesnt make any difference. It's simply not relevant.

Granted I will look to see if Doyle scores or whatever but only with the same mild interest to see if its gonna rain. It doesnt bother me.

I look on with genuine pity the hordes here who "support" any english club. They do not have the slightest clue about the game or football culture. Their opinions are worthless.

KOH

[paul_oshea]

oh ya DCFC_Steve start deleting stuff from your inbox here on foot.ie. You might have had your shirt back by now if you did!!!

[paul_oshea]

I look on with genuine pity the hordes here who "support" any english club. They do not have the slightest clue about the game or football culture. Their opinions are worthless

ah the saviour, come thy who preech save those poor lost souls :D LMAO good one ;)


Granted I will look to see if Doyle scores or whatever but only with the same mild interest to see if its gonna rain. It doesnt bother me.


when you decide to go to an ireland match do you also check if it is raining before you decide whether you will go or not? When doyle scores and scores again and again, do you not think it benefits our national team, mais non? So, I ask again do you look at Doyle scoring the same way as you look at whether it rains ( match days or not ;) ) on any given day? OR do you just not care for the Irish team either way.

I look on with genuine pity the hordes here who "support" any EL club and dont support/care for their National Team. They do not have the slightest clue about the game or football culture, its all lowly tribalism really. :8

[tetsujin1979]

I look on with genuine pity the hordes here who "support" any english club. They do not have the slightest clue about the game or football culture. Their opinions are worthless.

KOH

So, by extension, anyone who doesn't support an english club is totally clued in on the game and football culture, and their opinions are worthwhile?
Give me a break.

[NeilMcD]

Totally agree with your points.

Cant understand any Irish person that wants to see an english side playing another side and wanting them to win or lose. It doesnt make any difference. It's simply not relevant.

Granted I will look to see if Doyle scores or whatever but only with the same mild interest to see if its gonna rain. It doesnt bother me.

I look on with genuine pity the hordes here who "support" any english club. They do not have the slightest clue about the game or football culture. Their opinions are worthless.

KOH



I have met people who go to EL week in and week out who dont know anything about football as in they don't know how the game should be played or how you open a team up etc. Fair play to them for going week in week out and they are proper fans. I have also met guys who only watch football on Sky and go to the odd game or maybe make trips ever so often to England and their knowledge of football is top class because they play it and they know their football, but they are not proper football fans. What you say about is rather simplistic in my opinion. Who are you to judge if someones opinion is worthless or not, you can argue with it or debate it but to dismiss it outright is not a very good argument at all.

[dcfcsteve]

You can't be serious? You should have seen the parties in Spain when Fernando Alonso won the championship. Or the pubs in this country when Ken Doherty won the World Championships. I absolutely loved to see Damien Duff destroy players in the Champions league during his first couple of season at Chelsea. Nakamura has been all over the front pages of the Japanese papers over the last few days. It's just part of being patriotic. How is it peculiar?

Firstly - there's a huge difference with individual team sports like Motor Racing, athletics, Boxing etc, as people there are viewed as representing their country when they play in those sports. Just think Barry McGuigan, Damon Hill, Tim Henman etc.

Secondly - I would have no problem wanting Seamus O'Flaherty to do well playing for Ireland, as that is what patriotic people do. They support people when they are representing their country, - as is considered the case with Alonso in motor sports, Ken Doherty in snooker etc.

But to then demand that that obvious patriotism be slavishly transfered over to team players when they are not representing their country, and particularly when they are operating at a sub-optimal level in their sport, is what is peculiar. Does that now mean that you should support Alonso or Doherty when they take part in the annual parents race in their kid's school sports day, for example ?? I mean - it'd be unpatriotic not to do so... !

I don't see what is supposedly so patriotic about being unduly concerned about the proverbial Seamus O'Flaherty when he's playing club football for a second rate English team. Yeah - I'd prefer he did well than badly, but overall I wouldn't really care either way. Patriotism would then rightly kick-in when he played for his country.

As with Duff - he's a joy to watch, no matter what nationality he is. The fact that he's Irish, is a key player for the national squad, and plys his clubs trade at the very top of the footballing tree makes it much more sensible to take an interestv in his progress thna Seamus O'Flaherty's latest transfer to Leyton Orient.

[NY Hoop]

It's my opinion and if you disagree fair enough. Not preaching at all. IMO you have to go and actually watch your local side like people all over the world generally do.

I only go to the odd Ireland away game. If it's not raining even better! But by all means wind yourselves up about it:D

KOH

[dcfcsteve]

dcfcSteve why do you gravitate towards Derry? Would it be because you grew up in the locale, watched them play from a young age, know people and have an affinity with people who also share your love for them?

We support Ireland for the same reason but on an International level instead of a national one.

We are not so different you and I young Skywalker.

Nationalism is the way to go man. Tribalism is so Stone Age.

I agree with everything you've said.

But I fail to see how any of the above means I should be unduly concerned with the progress of Paddy O'Potato at Doncaster Rovers, just because he's Irish. To do so would be tribalistic, which as you suggest is wrong.

Likewise - I don't see what is so 'nationalistic' about caring for a footballer at a 2-bit English club. Am I now supposed to follow with interest the employment fortunes of the tens of thousands of Irish builders in London, out of some misplaced sense of what nationalism is...? Why are they less worthy of my attentions or 'nationalism' that some third-rate footballer ?:confused:

[paul_oshea]

But to then demand that that obvious patriotism be slavishly transfered over to team players when they are not representing their country, and particularly when they are operating at a sub-optimal level in their sport, is what is peculiar

not if they are doing well at team-level if that ensures they play well for their country, which it usually does. Its a knock on effect. It is certainly a little different than comparing to check whether its going to rain, having said that i hate when it rains and i do take quite an interest in when its going to rain, so horses for courses maybe :)

[NeilMcD]

C'mon people, now
smile on your brother,
ev'ry-body get together,
try to love one another right now.

[NY Hoop]

C'mon people, now
smile on your brother,
ev'ry-body get together,
try to love one another right now.

You, David Norris and Derek Mooney can sing that in dalier:D

KOH

[paul_oshea]

Likewise - I don't see what is so 'nationalistic' about caring for a footballer at a 2-bit English club. Am I now supposed to follow with interest the employment fortunes of the tens of thousands of Irish builders in London, out of some misplaced sense of what nationalism is...? Why are they less worthy of my attentions or 'nationalism' that some third-rate footballer

See, here is what I thought people were getting p'eed off about, the fact that irish people were bandwagon jumpers and gloryhunters/fair weather supporters, isn't it "more genunie football supporter" to look out for the lower clubs rather than just keep an eye out on the big clubs or players making the big difference....its certainly a fine line thats for sure.

[youngirish]

I agree with everything you've said.

But I fail to see how any of the above means I should be unduly concerned with the progress of Paddy O'Potato at Doncaster Rovers, just because he's Irish. To do so would be tribalistic, which as you suggest is wrong.

Likewise - I don't see what is so 'nationalistic' about caring for a footballer at a 2-bit English club. Am I now supposed to follow with interest the employment fortunes of the tens of thousands of Irish builders in London, out of some misplaced sense of what nationalism is...? Why are they less worthy of my attentions or 'nationalism' that some third-rate footballer ?:confused:
I myself as you am not overly bothered how Paddy Potato plays but as for Sunderland they have a few players who easily could have more than a passing part to play in next seasons qualification games for Euro 2008. Kavanagh, Stokes, Miller and Muprhy may all be involved at some stage and this is ignoring the possibility of Keane doing what he has done all year and buying Irish in the summer.

For this reason I like to see them doing well as I also like to see Newcastle, Reading, Celtic and Wolves do well.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

I've no problem calling myself a Liverpool fan and investing vast amounts of emotional capital in them, since I was a child. I don't make wild reasons up as to why I follow them (any more); pure self-preservation or gloryhunting helped me pick Liverpool out of the limited choice on the road (United and Everton the other two main ones). The bedspreads and mugs and calendars, etc., followed.

League of Ireland, though, = local pride and (despite long periods of shameful neglect on my part) live football, the match experience; it occupies a completely different sector of my brain. I've only seen Liverpool live once (friendly against Shels years ago) and don't really have any inkling to go over and watch them as they don't -- can't -- exist in that part of my mind for me.

It's like following two different sports, almost.

[Erstwhile Bóz]

You, David Norris and Derek Mooney can sing that in dalier:D

KOH
:rolleyes:

Obsessed.

[osarusan]

I look on with genuine pity the hordes here who "support" any english club. They do not have the slightest clue about the game or football culture. Their opinions are worthless.

KOH


How about those who support both an eL team and a foreign club?

[eirebhoy]

Firstly - there's a huge difference with individual team sports like Motor Racing, athletics, Boxing etc, as people there are viewed as representing their country when they play in those sports. Just think Barry McGuigan, Damon Hill, Tim Henman etc.

Secondly - I would have no problem wanting Seamus O'Flaherty to do well playing for Ireland, as that is what patriotic people do. They support people when they are representing their country, - as is considered the case with Alonso in motor sports, Ken Doherty in snooker etc.

But to then demand that that obvious patriotism be slavishly transfered over to team players when they are not representing their country, and particularly when they are operating at a sub-optimal level in their sport, is what is peculiar. Does that now mean that you should support Alonso or Doherty when they take part in the annual parents race in their kid's school sports day, for example ?? I mean - it'd be unpatriotic not to do so... !

I don't see what is supposedly so patriotic about being unduly concerned about the proverbial Seamus O'Flaherty when he's playing club football for a second rate English team. Yeah - I'd prefer he did well than badly, but overall I wouldn't really care either way. Patriotism would then rightly kick-in when he played for his country.

As with Duff - he's a joy to watch, no matter what nationality he is. The fact that he's Irish, is a key player for the national squad, and plys his clubs trade at the very top of the footballing tree makes it much more sensible to take an interestv in his progress thna Seamus O'Flaherty's latest transfer to Leyton Orient.
I can't agree with that at all. Doherty is representing us as much as Duff is. He's not playing snooker for his country. Alonso isn't racing for Spain. Bernard Dunne isn't fighting for Ireland. Nakamura wasn't playing for Japan on Sunday.

If Duff wasn't Irish I wouldn't really care less about him. In his first season in the Champions league I wouldn't miss a Chelsea match. It made me proud to think that an Irishman was literally the star of a top team at the top stage.

I can't remember where this Seamus O'Flaherty chap came into it but the reason we follow these players is because we follow Ireland. If you knew there was a genius playing for Derry U-16's you'd surely be following his progress. I don't really care how Willie Boland is doing at Hartlepool but there's a difference between a 31 year old in League 2 and the progress of the Irish players at Sunderland.