What is the point of Part Time football [Archive]

finnpark

14/04/2007, 4:10 PM

What is the point in "Part Time" clubs - is it not better just to have either AMATEUR or PROFESSIONAL players?

The only difference between an amateur player and a "Part-Time" player is that a Part-Time player gets paid. Both have jobs.

Wexford Youths are fully amateur I believe. They are 4th in the 1st division table. Finn Harps are paying out around E7000 per week to Amateur players. Wexford Youths beat Finn Harps away and are doing much better in the 1st division than Harps. However, WY players train just as much as Finn Harps players because at the end of the day they both have jobs!

I can undestand why Premier clubs do it; to attract the best and most experienced amateur players to their clubs. BUT WY have shown that its pointless paying amateur players in the 1st division because no-paid players do better. They have proven that the average Joe Soap playing "non-league" soccer is as good or better than the average eircom league 1st division player.

So....why are first division teams paying rubbish amateur players big sums of money? Would it not be better put that money into a youth academy for 15 and 16 year olds?

I can see WY go a long way if they can have a good feeder system from their youths. They have little overheads and people prefer watching players playing for pride rather than players playing for their next handy paycheck. Hence Wexford Youths have the 2nd best support in the 1st division.

Sniffer

14/04/2007, 5:24 PM

GavinZac

14/04/2007, 5:28 PM

because they can. wexford youths will never, ever compete for trophies in ireland. they will never play in europe. other clubs know that if they can attract the right players, they can posibly impress someone, and attract investment and crowds. which is how drogheda went from being a **** little club with no fans to being a **** little club in europe. :D

You are shooting your round off way too early my man; six games into the season 4th place means nothing. If a bunch of amateurs can beat your 7k per week 'amateurs' you need to be looking at your players for answers.:confused: who at finn harps is on 7k per week?

finnpark

14/04/2007, 5:30 PM

You are shooting your round off way too early my man; six games into the season 4th place means nothing. If a bunch of amateurs can beat your 7k per week 'amateurs' you need to be looking at your players for answers.

I don't think I am. I mean they should be bottom of the league playing against players earning an average of E300 per week. Its time LOI clubs woke up. Only the pro clubs are amking progress in this country. The part time players are taking the plss. Its a farcical joke. WY are doing well because they are playing for the pride. Our palyers are playing for the extra cash for boozing.

finnpark

14/04/2007, 5:30 PM

because they can. wexford youths will never, ever compete for trophies in ireland. ?
What clubs in 1st can compete for trophies other then the 1st div title and Wexford look a lot better than most teams for this. Its makes sense to go amateur until you get to the premier. Then go full time. There is no place for part-time. It is dead money.

they will never play in europe. ?
Neither will any other first div team or most part-time/amateur premier clubs. My point is that there is no difference between amateur and part-time because part-time players are amateur. ie they have full time jobs.

:confused: who at finn harps is on 7k per week?

The combined squad. And thats a conservative figure.

finnpark

14/04/2007, 5:40 PM

maybe the money ensures a better class of amateur alright thats how id see it

I think your right. It stems from the era when there were no pro players or clubs in the league. Players were paid to sign. Now all the best players are pro or turn pro. The useless overpaid scammers are left behind. Keep their jobs and get a 2nd wage on top.

and maybe clubs see it as the first step on to the road of professionalism that big clubs go down:cool:
It would make more sense to go from Amateur to Pro straight. Smaller wages. What part-time player is going to give up a job to go pro if their already earing E300+ as an amateur/part-timer. Wexford have it right

MojoPin

14/04/2007, 5:45 PM

simple as this... if say everyone took on wexfords approach it would be great players playing for pride the lenght of the country, but on eday a chairman is getting fed up of the current suitation so he uses the few bob he has available and starts attracting players to his club by offering compensation then your back to square one, wexford ar doing very well at the moment and the idea is flawless on paper. but then again communism worked very well on paper, so i think in possible 3 or 4 yrs wexford will being taking maby 4 or 5 players with experince on board and paying them, then the rest of the squad has to get paid also.

then there like every other club in the league!

GavinZac

14/04/2007, 5:51 PM

It would make more sense to go from Amateur to Pro straight. Smaller wages. What part-time player is going to give up a job to go pro if their already earing E300+ as an amateur/part-timer. Wexford have it right

Any club attempting to take an amatuer ethos now would instantly lose fans, sponsors and players. it would be the death knell to the club. wexford's eL team is merely an extension of their youth system; clubs like cobh, harps and waterford would drop off the face of the earth. that is the nature of small clubs - they take the grey area, they enjoy a few years of success in between long periods of misery. were they to even attempt to rely solely on amatuer players:

they would never have these periods of success
they would not attract good young players like Daryl Murphy or, going back a bit, Roy Keane
The league would be less competitive
They would lose more money from loss of fans than they would save from a few thousand euros worth of wages

LeixlipRed

14/04/2007, 6:17 PM

I would imagine that Wexford Youths players are getting paid just as much as Harps players. It's called expenses

pete

14/04/2007, 6:25 PM

I think many "part-time" players do a lot better than some of the less well paid fulltime players. 300-400 euro a week for 2 night training & 1 match would be 12-16k a season which is easy money for a 1st division player which as pointed out are not much better than non-league amateur players.

Patrick Dunne

14/04/2007, 6:46 PM

Having studied it at close quarters for five seasons, I feel that
the First Division is only a cottage industry for players who are not good
enough to play in the Premier, have attitude problems.

At lot of the players appear not to be physically fit, and clubs train only
twice a week. I would be fairly sure that the county footballers of Monaghan
and Kildare (just two examples) would be fitter than their EL counterparts.

GUFC was a cash cow for locals and other regional mercenaries when we were in the First. Easy money, low expectations, and the chance of more easy money at Limerick/Athlone/Sligo if you are released.

There are clubs in the FD paying out four figure sums weekly to Leinster Senior League players just so the FD club can finish 8th or 9th. A complete waste of money.

Cymro

14/04/2007, 6:59 PM

The idea of being part time is obvious. It enables you to sign the best players who aren't pro.

Say all clubs in your first division are amateur as in no wages at all? Well I imagine they'd never keep hold of any half decent players as they wouldn't have them on contracts and Premier Division clubs who are part time would poach them.

Therefore the gulf in class between Div 1 and the Premier Division would quickly become bigger as even wages of £100 p/w would be attractive to someone who isn't getting paid for playing football and is on an average working-class wage. I know if Welsh Premier clubs turned amateur tomorrow there would be a huge exodus to the Conference within about 24 hours.

Maybe it's a different situation in Ireland but I could imagine at least a few players going to Northern Ireland or Scotland for part time football because it gives them financial security.

Also, clubs can't afford to go full time on average gates of around 500-1000 as is the case with some of your lower Premier Div sides. Do you suggest they just go amateur? That would leave them miles behind the handful of full time teams in your league as they'd be forced to play local players and youth teamers.

Part time football is the only route for those clubs. Asking them to go amateur would be stupid.

TommyT

14/04/2007, 8:27 PM

Part time football is the only route for those clubs. Asking them to go amateur would be stupid.

I don't think he's asking them to do anything, he suggensting it as a better route for his club.

The discussion ignores a couple of things 1) Part-time teams train more than 2 times a week 2) Part-time players don't have to be full-time in their other jobs, ideally they'd be students or self -employed.

Cymro

14/04/2007, 8:55 PM

stojkovic

14/04/2007, 9:10 PM

There are a fair few players in the Leinster Senior League who would be on 300 yoyos a week !!! And a very large chunk who's be on 150.

don ramo

14/04/2007, 10:52 PM

semi pro is the way to go for the smaller clubs as if your amatuer youll have rebels in the squad who wont train cause there not gettin payed, and other would proably go to the gaa as they would be respected more in some cases, also you could have free reign on where you wanna go no limits the teams would be changeing by the week, football isnt like gaa your not anchored to a certain county you can move where you like with ease, also no prem club could snatch all the players, but they would take the best, so no first div club would make any progress, wexford youths will have to go pro for the simple reason other clubs will pay the players, and they wont have a squad to pick from even mick wallace said it himself they will more than likely have to go full time in a few year to progress up the table, wouldnt look to much into them for now it could be a gimmick for a year our so, but then again it could be the real thing

half_full

15/04/2007, 11:00 AM

There are a fair few players in the Leinster Senior League who would be on 300 yoyos a week !!! And a very large chunk who's be on 150.

:confused: how could LSL clubs afford to pay those kind of wages? I'm not having a go or anything, just curious...

pete

15/04/2007, 11:48 AM

:confused: how could LSL clubs afford to pay those kind of wages? I'm not having a go or anything, just curious...

I presume some benefactors?

I don't think many part-time FD players train more than twice a week. I put money on the fact that many "pert-time" PD players earn more (when add fulltime job) than a lot of younger fulltime players.

Fulltime won't be an option for many clubs but part-time football with part-time day job will be the future...

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:09 PM

I don't think he's asking them to do anything, he suggensting it as a better route for his club.
Exactly, in the first division anywya. Then if they get promoted to the premier turn pro. If they cant support this dont play in the premier. The money going towards paying these players is "dead money". When you pay a pro money he is trainging upto 3 times a day and its easy to see how this makes sense.

The discussion ignores a couple of things 1) Part-time teams train more than 2 times a week 2) Part-time players don't have to be full-time in their other jobs, ideally they'd be students or self -employed.
I thought about this but I dont know many who are like this. I wonder how many of our players train more than WY players? I would call people who deliberately take part-time jobs or enrole in courses "semi-pro".

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:23 PM

Any club attempting to take an amatuer ethos now would instantly lose fans, sponsors and players.
lose players...easy replaced in 1st division as WYs prove. Lose fans...how would you. You would have more local players and the GAA has shown that mateur players get mor esupport from the community. Just look at WYs. People like watching people play for their local pride. Who gets biggest support- Kildare GAA or Kildare County FC, Kilkenny GAA or Kilkenny City fc. I think that answers that. Same in Donegal, Galway, Sligo etc

it would be the death knell to the club. wexford's eL team is merely an extension of their youth system; clubs like cobh, harps and waterford would drop off the face of the earth.
Errr.... quite the opposite. Their fianancial security would be guaranteed. An extension of a club's yoputh system is ESSENTIAL for this league. Just look where Norway are ranked.

that is the nature of small clubs - they take the grey area, they enjoy a few years of success in between long periods of misery. were they to even attempt to rely solely on amatuer players:

they would never have these periods of success
they would not attract good young players like Daryl Murphy or, going back a bit, Roy Keane
The league would be less competitive
They would lose more money from loss of fans than they would save from a few thousand euros worth of wages

Those days are long gone. The pro clubs are dominating. In case you ahve not noticed but Roy Keane left Cobh for 10000 when he was 17 and Murphy left Waterford for 100000 when he was 20 so Im not sure what point your making there. And why would clubs not generate more local talent this way instead of playing old beer belly type players that are playing these days..

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:25 PM

I would imagine that Wexford Youths players are getting paid just as much as Harps players. It's called expenses

I don't think your right. I know what GAA players get ine xpenses and its nowhere near the average wage at Finn Harps. Plus teh Harps players also get expenses on top orf that.

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:26 PM

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:27 PM

Suggesting that they go amateur, then. It wouldn't work either way I'm afraid.

Players are going to want a slice of what the club makes in gate receipts, simple as. That's how professionalism came about.

Why is teh GAA such a success. You can always get new talent to replace anyone with an ego.

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:29 PM

The idea of being part time is obvious. It enables you to sign the best players who aren't pro.

But the premier division teams have all the best part time players. The palyers 1st div teams are paying seem to be of a very low standard. As pointed out by a number of others on here, many of them seem very unfit, have big "beeer bellies" and can be seen out boozing at weekends.

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:31 PM

There are a fair few players in the Leinster Senior League who would be on 300 yoyos a week !!! And a very large chunk who's be on 150.

:D Same a s1st div then. Some people have more money than sense.

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:33 PM

GavinZac

15/04/2007, 12:36 PM

lose players...easy replaced in 1st division as WYs prove. Lose fans...how would you. You would have more local players and the GAA has shown that mateur players get mor esupport from the community. Just look at WYs. People like watching people play for their local pride. Who gets biggest support- Kildare GAA or Kildare County FC, Kilkenny GAA or Kilkenny City fc. I think that answers that. Same in Donegal, Galway, Sligo etcok. you should tell more people about this, apparantly the system of semi-pro football throughout the world is inherently flawed. please, try to read people's arguments above about what would happen if each team was amatuer. how long do you think that would last.

Errr.... quite the opposite. Their fianancial security would be guaranteed. An extension of a club's yoputh system is ESSENTIAL for this league. Just look where Norway are ranked.Amateur players are not tied by contract and as such can leave for free. The clubs would nto make money from having a youth system.

Those days are long gone. The pro clubs are dominating. In case you ahve not noticed but Roy Keane left Cobh for 10000 when he was 17 and Murphy left Waterford for 100000 when he was 20 so Im not sure what point your making there.the point im making is that these players signed for small clubs, because they were semi-pro. the small club then either could have, or did make a big profit from his sale, and kept the club going. that is how small clubs around the world survive.

And why would clubs not generate more local talent this way instead of playing old beer belly type players that are playing these days..because any good players will move anywhere they can be paid, be it abroad, or at the one semi-pro team in the league.

seriously, you're starting to sound as off the wall as that time mypost wanted players booked for playing in the corner of the pitch.

So tell me what is Cobh Ramblers been getting the past few seasons for paying your palyers. Promotion? Many Cups? Huge crowds?Firstly, Cobh have a very young team of players who probably would otehrwise have dropped out of football if they had not been given a chance by ramblers. secondly, they have had good times and bad. that is football. drastic measures do not usually translate to instant success - more than likely, it translate to rapid failure. thirdly, they've just built a fantastic new stand. it is by improving the product on show that the eircom first division will start to attract bigger crowds, not by relegating themselves to sunday league football level, giving up on any hope of success.

finnpark

15/04/2007, 12:52 PM

ok. you should tell more people about this, apparantly the system of semi-pro football throughout the world is inherently flawed. please, try to read people's arguments above about what would happen if each team was amatuer. how long do you think that would last..
In most countries players who have jobs are regarded as amateurs regardless of whether they get paid or not.

Amateur players are not tied by contract and as such can leave for free. The clubs would nto make money from having a youth system.
They could still be signed on contracts. Why wouldnt they? All amateur players should have contracts regardless whether or not they get money for it.

the point im making is that these players signed for small clubs, because they were semi-pro. the small club then either could have, or did make a big profit from his sale, and kept the club going. that is how small clubs around the world survive..
Name me the clubs that are making "big profit" from the sale of its players. I cannot think of one team:confused:

because any good players will move anywhere they can be paid, be it abroad, or at the one semi-pro team in the league.
They will still do this even if they get paid. How many palyers (who are getting paid) are moving abroad or to pro clubs. Part-time is not the answer PROFESSIONAL is.

Firstly, Cobh have a very young team of players who probably would otehrwise have dropped out of football if they had not been given a chance by ramblers. secondly, they have had good times and bad. that is football. drastic measures do not usually translate to instant success - more than likely, it translate to rapid failure. thirdly, they've just built a fantastic new stand. it is by improving the product on show that the eircom first division will start to attract bigger crowds, not by relegating themselves to sunday league football level, giving up on any hope of success.

Well as long as your happy :D It doesnt make any sense at all to me to pay amateur players.

don ramo

15/04/2007, 12:54 PM

Yes go full time.
sorry meant to say wexfrod to go semi pro

So tell me what is Cobh Ramblers been getting the past few seasons for paying your palyers. Promotion? Many Cups? Huge crowds?

same as finn harps i suppose but we just didnt invest as much money in the team this year, we slashed the wage bill and still look like we have a good squad, you said yer wage bill is E7000 a week ours was similar last year but i find you get more slackers in a squad like that than a wage bill of E2000 a week as we found out last year a lot of people were here for the money, now we've cut the slack and are off to a good start one that we should be able to maintain and finnish in the top three, we havent won a cup sonce we entered the league but then again we never had any major investment, and now this is the probably one of the most talented squads weve had in a while and things may look up

GavinZac

15/04/2007, 12:57 PM

In most countries players who have jobs are regarded as amateurs regardless of whether they get paid or not.
They could still be signed on contracts. Why wouldnt they? All amateur players should have contracts regardless whether or not they get money for it.

how old are you?

don ramo

15/04/2007, 12:57 PM

Well as long as your happy :D It doesnt make any sense at all to me to pay amateur players.

yet you have a wage bill of E7000 a week compared to ours of E2000 and wexfords whos are E00000 a week, and yet your where in the table

you should get onto your board of management so

finnpark

15/04/2007, 1:01 PM

yet you have a wage bill of E7000 a week compared to ours of E2000 and wexfords whos are E00000 a week, and yet your where in the table

you should get onto your board of management so

I agree totally. I cannot believe our players get paid. I know plenty of others who are just as good or better who would love to play (for nothing). Yes, Im slating the Finn Harps board.

If your wage bill is E2000 per week (E100 per player) then you are more or less amateur then.

finnpark

15/04/2007, 1:02 PM

how old are you?

Im not sure why your asking but Im old enough to understand economics and contract law.

finnpark

15/04/2007, 1:05 PM

sorry meant to say wexfrod to go semi pro

same as finn harps i suppose but we just didnt invest as much money in the team this year, we slashed the wage bill and still look like we have a good squad, you said yer wage bill is E7000 a week ours was similar last year but i find you get more slackers in a squad like that than a wage bill of E2000 a week as we found out last year a lot of people were here for the money, now we've cut the slack and are off to a good start one that we should be able to maintain and finnish in the top three, we havent won a cup sonce we entered the league but then again we never had any major investment, and now this is the probably one of the most talented squads weve had in a while and things may look up

Well you are agreeing totally with my point. Maybe the Cobh Ramblers board have seen the light.

Now cut back each palyer's wage by E100 and they will try even harder. The more you pay amateurs the less they try.

GavinZac

15/04/2007, 1:06 PM

Im not sure why your asking but Im old enough to understand economics and contract law.
Ok, what exactly is the player gaining from signing a contract with no pay? why would he sign that? for the right to play for finn harps?

finnpark

15/04/2007, 1:15 PM

Ok, what exactly is the player gaining from signing a contract with no pay? why would he sign that? for the right to play for finn harps?

Yes, all amateur clubs should be doing this anyway. Contracts should be at least 2 years with an optional 1 year extension at the end of each season. Most young players would love to get the chance to play in the LOI when they dont make their "dream move" to those foreign clubs who treat them like dirt. If the player turns out to very good there is nothing to stop them being signed up on a pro contract where he will train a numbe rof times each day with others on pro-contracts. But I cannot see the point in paying them to train 2 nights a week and play a game at the week. How many business' work this way? None apart from Eircom League soccer.

GavinZac

15/04/2007, 1:18 PM

Most young players would love to get the chance to play in the LOI when they dont make their "dream move" to those foreign clubs who treat them like dirt.

This is where your argument falls apart.

Yes, it would make sense not to pay players if you could get away with it. You can't. end of.

well, you can only get away with it for so long and you might get to play in the champions league but sooner or later you end up where you belong! :D

don ramo

15/04/2007, 1:30 PM

Well you are agreeing totally with my point. Maybe the Cobh Ramblers board have seen the light.

Now cut back each palyer's wage by E100 and they will try even harder. The more you pay amateurs the less they try.

yes we could pay them notin but i dont think they will stick around for notin:D , i think semi pro is a nice step to pro as i dont think a board of management could budget for the premier division, suddenly goin form payin notin to full time the clubs finances would fall apart as youd be used to amatuer, think what would happen if the gaa went full time tomorrow, i dont agree with givin a player E300 a week maybe 3-4 of the best alright just to keep them, but only 4 max, all the other will get E100 a week until they achieve somethin, and i dont mean finnishing second in the table but premier division football then you get your payrise fair is fair if your still in the samme division why should you get more money

sniffa

15/04/2007, 2:12 PM

All players, no matter what they're being or not being paid are tied down by contract.
I think some on here are getting the contract of registration confused with a contract of conditions i.e. wages, if any.
The club have to register all players including U21 players to the league. Lets not forget that they both sign the same contract. The club hold the players registration so he can't just up and leave at a whim. And as we have all seen with Cork, a player can't chop and change clubs throughout a season/year.

Looking at Shels and the players there. Most of them would get a place on most LSL sides, earn as much if not more and know that the furthest league away game is within Leinster.
Then why oh why are they playing for Shels and travelling to the likes of Ballybofey, Cobh etc.
The only reason I can see is commitment. A commitment to better themselves and to see how much higher a standard of football they can strive to. Most see it as a shop window. But a willingness to play on low wages, train at least twice a week and travel the length and breadth of the country is in itself commitment.

TommyT

15/04/2007, 2:35 PM

finnpark,

You're muddying the waters with going on about more or less amateur etc but you are basically right.

Clubs shouldn't pay out big money to guys only training two times a week. I think you' d agree though that some consideration (In the contract law sense) should be paid to players so clubs can control their contracts and potentially earn transfer fees.

Clubs should only pay out large (relatively speaking) sums to the type of player I mentioned earlier, a guy who can train four times a week, but works part-time to pay the rent or studies and uses the football to pay their way through college. Providing of course that they're good enough.

In the short term of course if Harps went down that road you'd lose a lot of players to the benches of premier division clubs and the Irish League.

Cymro

15/04/2007, 2:35 PM

Why is teh GAA such a success. You can always get new talent to replace anyone with an ego.

The GAA is very different to football. GAA is confined to Ireland and is an Irish thing, whereas football clubs can be found virtually anywhere.

If an Irish footballer isn't happy with what he's getting for his services, he can move to Scotland, England, Northern Ireland or Wales for his wedge. Can't do that in GAA.

Cymro

15/04/2007, 2:51 PM

But the premier division teams have all the best part time players. The palyers 1st div teams are paying seem to be of a very low standard. As pointed out by a number of others on here, many of them seem very unfit, have big "beeer bellies" and can be seen out boozing at weekends.

Your level of fitness doesn't have a huge impact on your skills as a footballer. Read Gazza, Andy Reid, Neil Lennon etc for players at the top level (in their day) who liked their booze.

The best footballers usually end up at the clubs willing to pay the most for their services.

Also, going part time on a serious budget would enable a 1st div club to be of a similar level to those in the Premier Division. Being amateur they would never get the players from the local area to challenge the Premier teams.

I really don't know why I'm making such an effort to argue on an issue that affects me in no way whatsoever, but I can't believe that people think amateur football is a step forward as opposed to semi-pro.

Also, why would a player want to commit himself to a club for 2 years if he isn't getting anything for it. A big club might come in during that time and offer him a full time deal, but because he's on a contract his club won't let him go. It's madness to think that anyone would do that.

pete

15/04/2007, 2:58 PM

If an Irish footballer isn't happy with what he's getting for his services, he can move to Scotland, England, Northern Ireland or Wales for his wedge. Can't do that in GAA.

I don't think you will see many LOI part-time footballers moving to the UK for earn more money.

It might be different in Dublin but Cobh Ramblers or Finn Harps players won't move across the country just to earn 300 euro extra playing part-time football. Part-time players are not sold anymore so making them amateur won't lose money for the club.

GavinZac

15/04/2007, 3:01 PM

Part-time players are not sold anymore so making them amateur won't lose money for the club.

They just won't play.

TommyT

15/04/2007, 9:44 PM

Your level of fitness doesn't have a huge impact on your skills as a footballer. Read Gazza, Andy Reid, Neil Lennon etc for players at the top level (in their day) who liked their booze.
.

It does affect your effectiveness as a football though. At an LoW/LOI 1st Div level of football I'd rather have a large squad of fit hungry young players than a smaller one of better less committed footballers.

Dyl10

15/04/2007, 10:06 PM

If the first division went amateur there would be a mass exodus of players. People would not travel from Cobh to Wexford to Donegal week in week out to play for free. They would go to the LSL or the MSL for their football

Mr A

15/04/2007, 10:37 PM

Clubs shouldn't pay out big money to guys only training two times a week.

My understanding is that Harps are training 4 nights a week this year.

Cymro

15/04/2007, 11:00 PM

It does affect your effectiveness as a football though. At an LoW/LOI 1st Div level of football I'd rather have a large squad of fit hungry young players than a smaller one of better less committed footballers.

Cwmbran are de facto amateur (can't afford their wages now and haven't been able to for a few months) and have a large-ish squad of fit young hungry players, youth teamers mostly, plus a few from Newport County. Problem is they're all rubbish footballers and haven't won a point in several weeks. They'll probably go down now which is a shame as I rather like their ground and it actually meets UEFA criteria which is rare enough in the Welsh Premier!

At the end of the day if you don't have the talent there's not a lot that can be done about it. You can be as fit and as hungry as you want, but it won't mean anything when you're playing against players with a decent pedigree, who will pass you off the park.

I also don't personally think that semi-pros are likely to be any less committed because they're getting paid. To be honest if you're not earning money from it you're likely to take it less seriously than if you get a decent amount of money, which could make a difference to your quality of life.

Personal attitude does constitute a certain amount of it too.

don ramo

16/04/2007, 12:26 AM

pay a syou play is a good idea until you can figure out a player and then hes moves to part-time, whenyou pay a player E100 a week that is E5000 a year on top of his workin wages,
also this year there suppose to bring in an education program where people playin for eircom league clubs will be put through college by either the league the club our both so it would help them get a beter carer when there footballin days are over, its a nice incentive to play for an eircom league club, but i dunno what you need to qualify for the program it not a FAS scheme its an actual college course, so id say you will have to make a fairly lenghty commitment the club to apply for it,