QuoteYou are shooting your round off way too early my man; six games into the season 4th place means nothing. If a bunch of amateurs can beat your 7k per week 'amateurs' you need to be looking at your players for answers.
What is the point in "Part Time" clubs - is it not better just to have either AMATEUR or PROFESSIONAL players?
The only difference between an amateur player and a "Part-Time" player is that a Part-Time player gets paid. Both have jobs.
Wexford Youths are fully amateur I believe. They are 4th in the 1st division table. Finn Harps are paying out around E7000 per week to Amateur players. Wexford Youths beat Finn Harps away and are doing much better in the 1st division than Harps. However, WY players train just as much as Finn Harps players because at the end of the day they both have jobs!
I can undestand why Premier clubs do it; to attract the best and most experienced amateur players to their clubs. BUT WY have shown that its pointless paying amateur players in the 1st division because no-paid players do better. They have proven that the average Joe Soap playing "non-league" soccer is as good or better than the average eircom league 1st division player.
So....why are first division teams paying rubbish amateur players big sums of money? Would it not be better put that money into a youth academy for 15 and 16 year olds?
I can see WY go a long way if they can have a good feeder system from their youths. They have little overheads and people prefer watching players playing for pride rather than players playing for their next handy paycheck. Hence Wexford Youths have the 2nd best support in the 1st division.
The deepest layer of human thinking and feeling somehow knows that God must exist - Pope Benedict XVI
You are shooting your round off way too early my man; six games into the season 4th place means nothing. If a bunch of amateurs can beat your 7k per week 'amateurs' you need to be looking at your players for answers.
because they can. wexford youths will never, ever compete for trophies in ireland. they will never play in europe. other clubs know that if they can attract the right players, they can posibly impress someone, and attract investment and crowds. which is how drogheda went from being a **** little club with no fans to being a **** little club in europe.
You are shooting your round off way too early my man; six games into the season 4th place means nothing. If a bunch of amateurs can beat your 7k per week 'amateurs' you need to be looking at your players for answers.who at finn harps is on 7k per week?
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
I don't think I am. I mean they should be bottom of the league playing against players earning an average of E300 per week. Its time LOI clubs woke up. Only the pro clubs are amking progress in this country. The part time players are taking the plss. Its a farcical joke. WY are doing well because they are playing for the pride. Our palyers are playing for the extra cash for boozing.Originally Posted by Sniffer
The deepest layer of human thinking and feeling somehow knows that God must exist - Pope Benedict XVI
What clubs in 1st can compete for trophies other then the 1st div title and Wexford look a lot better than most teams for this. Its makes sense to go amateur until you get to the premier. Then go full time. There is no place for part-time. It is dead money.
Neither will any other first div team or most part-time/amateur premier clubs. My point is that there is no difference between amateur and part-time because part-time players are amateur. ie they have full time jobs.
The combined squad. And thats a conservative figure.
Last edited by finnpark; 14/04/2007 at 5:35 PM.
The deepest layer of human thinking and feeling somehow knows that God must exist - Pope Benedict XVI
I think your right. It stems from the era when there were no pro players or clubs in the league. Players were paid to sign. Now all the best players are pro or turn pro. The useless overpaid scammers are left behind. Keep their jobs and get a 2nd wage on top.
It would make more sense to go from Amateur to Pro straight. Smaller wages. What part-time player is going to give up a job to go pro if their already earing E300+ as an amateur/part-timer. Wexford have it rightand maybe clubs see it as the first step on to the road of professionalism that big clubs go down
The deepest layer of human thinking and feeling somehow knows that God must exist - Pope Benedict XVI
simple as this... if say everyone took on wexfords approach it would be great players playing for pride the lenght of the country, but on eday a chairman is getting fed up of the current suitation so he uses the few bob he has available and starts attracting players to his club by offering compensation then your back to square one, wexford ar doing very well at the moment and the idea is flawless on paper. but then again communism worked very well on paper, so i think in possible 3 or 4 yrs wexford will being taking maby 4 or 5 players with experince on board and paying them, then the rest of the squad has to get paid also.
then there like every other club in the league!
Any club attempting to take an amatuer ethos now would instantly lose fans, sponsors and players. it would be the death knell to the club. wexford's eL team is merely an extension of their youth system; clubs like cobh, harps and waterford would drop off the face of the earth. that is the nature of small clubs - they take the grey area, they enjoy a few years of success in between long periods of misery. were they to even attempt to rely solely on amatuer players:
- they would never have these periods of success
- they would not attract good young players like Daryl Murphy or, going back a bit, Roy Keane
- The league would be less competitive
- They would lose more money from loss of fans than they would save from a few thousand euros worth of wages
Your Chairperson,
Gavin
Membership Advisory Board
"Ex Bardus , Vicis"
I would imagine that Wexford Youths players are getting paid just as much as Harps players. It's called expenses
I think many "part-time" players do a lot better than some of the less well paid fulltime players. 300-400 euro a week for 2 night training & 1 match would be 12-16k a season which is easy money for a 1st division player which as pointed out are not much better than non-league amateur players.
Having studied it at close quarters for five seasons, I feel that
the First Division is only a cottage industry for players who are not good
enough to play in the Premier, have attitude problems.
At lot of the players appear not to be physically fit, and clubs train only
twice a week. I would be fairly sure that the county footballers of Monaghan
and Kildare (just two examples) would be fitter than their EL counterparts.
GUFC was a cash cow for locals and other regional mercenaries when we were in the First. Easy money, low expectations, and the chance of more easy money at Limerick/Athlone/Sligo if you are released.
There are clubs in the FD paying out four figure sums weekly to Leinster Senior League players just so the FD club can finish 8th or 9th. A complete waste of money.
The idea of being part time is obvious. It enables you to sign the best players who aren't pro.
Say all clubs in your first division are amateur as in no wages at all? Well I imagine they'd never keep hold of any half decent players as they wouldn't have them on contracts and Premier Division clubs who are part time would poach them.
Therefore the gulf in class between Div 1 and the Premier Division would quickly become bigger as even wages of £100 p/w would be attractive to someone who isn't getting paid for playing football and is on an average working-class wage. I know if Welsh Premier clubs turned amateur tomorrow there would be a huge exodus to the Conference within about 24 hours.
Maybe it's a different situation in Ireland but I could imagine at least a few players going to Northern Ireland or Scotland for part time football because it gives them financial security.
Also, clubs can't afford to go full time on average gates of around 500-1000 as is the case with some of your lower Premier Div sides. Do you suggest they just go amateur? That would leave them miles behind the handful of full time teams in your league as they'd be forced to play local players and youth teamers.
Part time football is the only route for those clubs. Asking them to go amateur would be stupid.
I don't think he's asking them to do anything, he suggensting it as a better route for his club.
The discussion ignores a couple of things 1) Part-time teams train more than 2 times a week 2) Part-time players don't have to be full-time in their other jobs, ideally they'd be students or self -employed.
EL grounds are like good episodes of The Simpsons, no matter how many times you see them they're still funny
Suggesting that they go amateur, then. It wouldn't work either way I'm afraid.
Players are going to want a slice of what the club makes in gate receipts, simple as. That's how professionalism came about.
There are a fair few players in the Leinster Senior League who would be on 300 yoyos a week !!! And a very large chunk who's be on 150.
semi pro is the way to go for the smaller clubs as if your amatuer youll have rebels in the squad who wont train cause there not gettin payed, and other would proably go to the gaa as they would be respected more in some cases, also you could have free reign on where you wanna go no limits the teams would be changeing by the week, football isnt like gaa your not anchored to a certain county you can move where you like with ease, also no prem club could snatch all the players, but they would take the best, so no first div club would make any progress, wexford youths will have to go pro for the simple reason other clubs will pay the players, and they wont have a squad to pick from even mick wallace said it himself they will more than likely have to go full time in a few year to progress up the table, wouldnt look to much into them for now it could be a gimmick for a year our so, but then again it could be the real thing
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.
I presume some benefactors?
I don't think many part-time FD players train more than twice a week. I put money on the fact that many "pert-time" PD players earn more (when add fulltime job) than a lot of younger fulltime players.
Fulltime won't be an option for many clubs but part-time football with part-time day job will be the future...
Exactly, in the first division anywya. Then if they get promoted to the premier turn pro. If they cant support this dont play in the premier. The money going towards paying these players is "dead money". When you pay a pro money he is trainging upto 3 times a day and its easy to see how this makes sense.
I thought about this but I dont know many who are like this. I wonder how many of our players train more than WY players? I would call people who deliberately take part-time jobs or enrole in courses "semi-pro".
The deepest layer of human thinking and feeling somehow knows that God must exist - Pope Benedict XVI
lose players...easy replaced in 1st division as WYs prove. Lose fans...how would you. You would have more local players and the GAA has shown that mateur players get mor esupport from the community. Just look at WYs. People like watching people play for their local pride. Who gets biggest support- Kildare GAA or Kildare County FC, Kilkenny GAA or Kilkenny City fc. I think that answers that. Same in Donegal, Galway, Sligo etc
Errr.... quite the opposite. Their fianancial security would be guaranteed. An extension of a club's yoputh system is ESSENTIAL for this league. Just look where Norway are ranked.
Those days are long gone. The pro clubs are dominating. In case you ahve not noticed but Roy Keane left Cobh for 10000 when he was 17 and Murphy left Waterford for 100000 when he was 20 so Im not sure what point your making there. And why would clubs not generate more local talent this way instead of playing old beer belly type players that are playing these days..
The deepest layer of human thinking and feeling somehow knows that God must exist - Pope Benedict XVI
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