View Full Version : Farrelly and Healy Hearings Rejected by FIFA
adamcarr
04/04/2007, 4:47 PM
http://www.derrycityfc.net/season/07/news/....php?storyid=74
Hynds has been cleared today to play for us today.
Absolutely disgraceful for Fifa to continue with this rule as surely no court in any EU country would deny EU citizen's the right to work and earn a living for their families.
Yet he played in a winter league with Newry. Disgrace altogether by FIFA, sort it out!
paudie
04/04/2007, 5:16 PM
They were not prevented from signing a contract. They both have two year deals (afaik) with Cork and are earning a wage. Nothing wrong there under EU law or Irish employment law.
Can Cork fans not understand that these guys are earning (a very) nice wage at the moment.
Having said all that its still a very strange rule but Healy and Farrelly's contracts with their previous clubs were up to the summer transfer window so either way they would be getting wages. Am I right here?
Also have Cork divulged why they were refused permission to play? It would help to clear up the confusion.
Obviously City will have to honour whatever contracts were signed with Healy/Farrelly.
However if City knew that Healy and Farrelly would not get clearance they (or any other club) would never have signed them. I'm almost certain that neither player was contracted to any club when they signed for City. No fees were certainly paid.
Therefore in future players in the same position as Healy/Farrelly will not be offerred contracts even though they are not contracted to any other club. That IMO must untenable under EU law.
I agree that City should say how those 2 cases are different from the other cases. If City messed up in some way that obviously changes everything.
If the contracts are pay for play then they will not be earning any money.
Celdrog
04/04/2007, 6:34 PM
If the contracts are pay for play then they will not be earning any money.
They are not. Farrelly is on €70k per season and Healy is on €80k. Plus they have received their pay up until July from their previous clubs. They are all right so no need to worry about them.
If they were on a pay for play then their contracts can be cancelled by them due to frustration of contract and they are free to go back to their original contracts (which have already paid up)
Brendan
04/04/2007, 9:18 PM
They are not. Farrelly is on €70k per season and Healy is on €80k. Plus they have received their pay up until July from their previous clubs. They are all right so no need to worry about them.
If they were on a pay for play then their contracts can be cancelled by them due to frustration of contract and they are free to go back to their original contracts (which have already paid up)
the specifics regarding these two are quite irrelevant. it is hardly inconceivable that there would be players who, as the rule stands, could be prevented from earning a living: the point has been made quite well above. the rule therefore must be illegal.
what baffles me is what exactly the rule sets out to achieve. anyone?
Brendan
04/04/2007, 9:24 PM
They are not. Farrelly is on €70k per season and Healy is on €80k. Plus they have received their pay up until July from their previous clubs. They are all right so no need to worry about them.
If they were on a pay for play then their contracts can be cancelled by them due to frustration of contract and they are free to go back to their original contracts (which have already paid up)
brendan,
id imagine its to stop teams bringing in a load of players if they are in a promotion/relegation scrap id imagine
but Roddy's not managing any more:D
Why do Cork City fans bother posting on this forum?...i read through this thread and the amount of typical sarcastic Irish begrudgery is stomach turning..if this was happening at any club in the country i would support those players to play whether there club or the FAI dealth with the situation..why are some of you people so fecking bitter?...there are a lot of fans that really need to take a look at themselves from some of the comments they are leaving here...no wonder the eircom league has been stuck in the doldrums for years..because of some of the bitter people above are involved in it...you should be fecking ashamed of yourselves...arseholes :rolleyes:
Meh, you reap what you sow.
Anyway- I'm totally baffled that Hynes has been cleared and the two Cork lads haven't. Makes no sense to me- maybe my understanding of the Hynes situation was wrong though. What we now need from this are a set of clear guidelines as to what is and what is not going to be permissible that enable this issue to be administered at a local level, and enable clubs and players to know exactly where they stand, because currently it's as clear as mud.
Anyway- I'm totally baffled that Hynes has been cleared and the two Cork lads haven't.That makes 2 of us.
I guess as soon as our solicitor has translated the 11 page document then we might get an idea of why.
passerrby
05/04/2007, 10:26 AM
Yet he played in a winter league with Newry. Disgrace altogether by FIFA, sort it out!
I think they all ready have
ndrog
05/04/2007, 10:44 AM
Why do Cork City fans bother posting on this forum?...i read through this thread and the amount of typical sarcastic Irish begrudgery is stomach turning..if this was happening at any club in the country i would support those players to play whether there club or the FAI dealth with the situation..why are some of you people so fecking bitter?...there are a lot of fans that really need to take a look at themselves from some of the comments they are leaving here...no wonder the eircom league has been stuck in the doldrums for years..because of some of the bitter people above are involved in it...you should be fecking ashamed of yourselves...arseholes :rolleyes:
WOW Look over there ! its a huge pot calling a kettle black :eek:
Celdrog
05/04/2007, 11:06 AM
Why do Cork City fans bother posting on this forum?...i read through this thread and the amount of typical sarcastic Irish begrudgery is stomach turning..if this was happening at any club in the country i would support those players to play whether there club or the FAI dealth with the situation..why are some of you people so fecking bitter?...there are a lot of fans that really need to take a look at themselves from some of the comments they are leaving here...no wonder the eircom league has been stuck in the doldrums for years..because of some of the bitter people above are involved in it...you should be fecking ashamed of yourselves...arseholes :rolleyes:
When Cork fans stop singing about the effects of Sellafield in a Drogheda pub, when Rico stops making excuses about not winning, when Cork fans stop wishing ill health to Shane Barrett and Jason Gavin, when Cork fans stop trying to tell us they are superior, when Cork fans stop screaming about an anti-Cork bias, when Cork stop complaining about being ridden rock solid, when Cork give us the actual reasons why their appeal failed and its unjust then I will support you, if we are still comfortably ahead of you in the table.
Until then run along and tell your mammy
jebus
05/04/2007, 11:50 AM
When Cork fans stop singing about the effects of Sellafield in a Drogheda pub, when Rico stops making excuses about not winning, when Cork fans stop wishing ill health to Shane Barrett and Jason Gavin, when Cork fans stop trying to tell us they are superior, when Cork fans stop screaming about an anti-Cork bias, when Cork stop complaining about being ridden rock solid, when Cork give us the actual reasons why their appeal failed and its unjust then I will support you, if we are still comfortably ahead of you in the table.
Until then run along and tell your mammy
Sums it up nicely :)
Risteard
05/04/2007, 12:06 PM
Grand.
Your concern for Drogs is touching jebus.
For anyone who's interested in seeing Healy and Farrelly in the eL over the next three months, your signature would be appreciated.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...and-healy.html
Desperate times, desperate measures.
holidaysong
05/04/2007, 6:30 PM
http://www.derrycityfc.net/season/07/news/....php?storyid=74
Hynds has been cleared today to play for us today.
Absolutely disgraceful for Fifa to continue with this rule as surely no court in any EU country would deny EU citizen's the right to work and earn a living for their families.
I still cannot believe Derry signes Peter Hynes. You'd have been better off not getting him cleared.
When Cork fans stop singing about the effects of Sellafield in a Drogheda pub, when Rico stops making excuses about not winning, when Cork fans stop wishing ill health to Shane Barrett and Jason Gavin, when Cork fans stop trying to tell us they are superior, when Cork fans stop screaming about an anti-Cork bias, when Cork stop complaining about being ridden rock solid, when Cork give us the actual reasons why their appeal failed and its unjust then I will support you, if we are still comfortably ahead of you in the table.
Until then run along and tell your mammy
Beating them hoe and away seems to work for a while.
kdjac
harry crumb
05/04/2007, 11:24 PM
We are City, We are City,
We are City from the Cross,
Noone like us, Noone Likes us,
We are City from the Cross:D
If anything this whole thing has given media coverage to the league, so benefits everyone.
if and when they are cleared the 1st game will have plenty of outside interest.:ball:
Celdrog
06/04/2007, 5:47 AM
if and when they are cleared the 1st game will have plenty of outside interest.:ball:
The pair of them will probably be injured
passerrby
06/04/2007, 1:02 PM
may I say as someone who has been around the politics of football for many years clubs only seem to want to fight on any issue when it effects there club, Eircom league clubs have always been devided only thinking of how an issue may affect there club/team. and thats why when they eventually have a problem the other clubs do exactly the same.and it will never change
The Man Himself
06/04/2007, 6:33 PM
Was Hynes cleared for Derry?
and scully for waterford,
theres only one john delaney:D
GavinZac
06/04/2007, 7:28 PM
When Cork fans stop singing about the effects of Sellafield in a Drogheda pub, when Rico stops making excuses about not winning, when Cork fans stop wishing ill health to Shane Barrett and Jason Gavin, when Cork fans stop trying to tell us they are superior, when Cork fans stop screaming about an anti-Cork bias, when Cork stop complaining about being ridden rock solid, when Cork give us the actual reasons why their appeal failed and its unjust then I will support you, if we are still comfortably ahead of you in the table.
i could have sworn you were off on another childish rant...
Until then run along and tell your mammy
obviously not then :rolleyes:
Philly
06/04/2007, 9:40 PM
Because everybody hates Cork, obviously.
Risteard
07/04/2007, 10:59 AM
In one of the papers today that City could seek an injunction against the rule while they are appealing it in the courts.
Sounds good.
It could be July before thats dealt with which would mean they were okay.
Rico said on the site the other day that CCFC would find it tough to keep paying them but i reckon thats just playing the poor-mouth to strengthen our case.
I'd be shocked if the contracts were cancelled.
Fair_play_boy
07/04/2007, 11:47 AM
... city terminate one or other or both of their contracts due to contractual frustration ... You appear to know your law, GavinZac.
Risteard
07/04/2007, 12:09 PM
Petition is motoring along nicely.
Signed by (signatures with an incremental decrease in likelihood of them actually being said person)
Olann Kelleher
Colin Healy
Gareth Farelly
Kevin Doyle
Javier Mascherano.
ha.
Apparently, Rico is bringing the lads to Zurich for a personal hearing, rather than submitting a written appeal.
Also heard that there's no doubting the lads determination to play and that they've been putting in great work out in Bishopstown.
I'd say there's no way they'd be let go anyway.
Aaron
07/04/2007, 12:28 PM
Its a disgrace that they cannot play. Its like saying someone cannot change jobs. Cork may be rivals but for the good of the league we want good players and Farrely and Healy are just that. People say why should they sign the petition because it would help a rival team, but this isnt about rivalry, this is about a mans job, someone who faces not being paid until July, with their families suffering because of some sort of stupid rule. I've absolutely no doubt whatsoever that those who refuse to sign it would be up in arms themselves if it was to affect two players at their club. Like i said its not about helping Cork City, its about helping two people earn a living
ndrog
07/04/2007, 12:46 PM
Its a disgrace that they cannot play. Its like saying someone cannot change jobs. Cork may be rivals but for the good of the league we want good players and Farrely and Healy are just that. People say why should they sign the petition because it would help a rival team, but this isnt about rivalry, this is about a mans job, someone who faces not being paid until July, with their families suffering because of some sort of stupid rule. I've absolutely no doubt whatsoever that those who refuse to sign it would be up in arms themselves if it was to affect two players at their club. Like i said its not about helping Cork City, its about helping two people earn a living
Ha Ha ! id say poor colin healy hasnt 2 bob to rub together .Lets get a wip roung going lads .Ill put in 50 p to get it started .:D
GavinZac
07/04/2007, 12:52 PM
Ha Ha ! id say poor colin healy hasnt 2 bob to rub together .Lets get a wip roung going lads .Ill put in 50 p to get it started .:D
no-one's saying he's not being paid. however, the only reason he's being paid is as a gesture of good faith by cork city fc. that is enough for him to base a legal case upon, because legally his contract is not binding at the moment.
YankExile
07/04/2007, 2:44 PM
Signed the petition last night soon as I saw it.
Risteard
07/04/2007, 3:41 PM
Rico just on the radio there saying we're seeking a high court injunction to let them play while other avenues are explored.
Celdrog
07/04/2007, 4:43 PM
no-one's saying he's not being paid. however, the only reason he's being paid is as a gesture of good faith by cork city fc. that is enough for him to base a legal case upon, because legally his contract is not binding at the moment.
Not true I'm afraid. He is being paid because Cork City gave him a legally binding contract of employment. There is no goodwill or faith here, you must legally pay him. Stop paying him and you are in breach of your licence as well as permitting him to take a claim for constructive dismissal.
He was not entitled to play competitively for Cork City until July 1 when the contract from Cork City was offered. This information was known to Cork City, if not then your board do not understand the laws of the game.
He can do all other tasks required of footballers, training, promotional work, friendlies etc. If in his first competitive match he gets a red card then he is not entitled to play in the next competitive match either.
Its weird that FIFA have not cleared both of them and raises questions as to why the appeal was different to the other players, but Cork have declined to enlighten us all as to these reasons. All we have is fans, understandably, screaming for them to be allowed play and giving out about miscarriages of justice, but let me ask again.
Why was their appeal different to the other 10?
I be pretty annoyed if it happened to two Drogs players but I would demand answers from the club before I went and blamed FIFA.
GavinZac
07/04/2007, 4:59 PM
He can do all other tasks required of footballers, training, promotional work, friendlies etc. If in his first competitive match he gets a red card then he is not entitled to play in the next competitive match either.
I'd love to give you all the reason's you're wrong, but they've been done to death in the second section of the case of Jean-Marc Bosman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosman_ruling), whereby a player's main duty of, well, playing, was set in stone as the defining factor regarding the eligibility of European Union nationals in European Union nations. UEFA themselves would have argued the same flawed logic as yourself, impressing that nothing was stopping the clubs from employing the players to train, but were met with the undeniable truth that training in football is essentially the same as training in any job - the means to an end, with a lack of training being not a breach of terms of employment but a lack of suitability to work - that is, to play.
Its weird that FIFA have not cleared both of them and raises questions as to why the appeal was different to the other players, but Cork have declined to enlighten us all as to these reasons. All we have is fans, understandably, screaming for them to be allowed play and giving out about miscarriages of justice, but let me ask again.
Why was their appeal different to the other 10?
We don't know. It appears our club does not either - at least not those before the mouthpiece. At first it appeared to be the case that the differentiating factor was the seasonal differences between the UK leagues and Ireland (which seemed at first to be the very reason they were more entitled to play - given that this was the explanation given for the Mascherano leniency).
Now it appears that it is somehow a disadvantage.
Another issue surrounding our players that has subsequently arisen is the short-term loan deals involving other clubs, eg Brentford and Bradford. These deals should not have gone through, given the 6 month lower limit on loan deals, and the English FA is at fault for this.
In the past Cork City have been impacted by this relatively new rule, during the crisis of availability of a goalkeeper for the European campaign of 2005, Birmingham's Colin Doyle having agreed to join City but being refused clearance because the deal was too short, and Birmingham's reluctance to lose a player for 6 months. That particular ruling came under fire because it involved a goalkeeper, a situation that has been subject to leniency many times, famously including Jimmy Glass, the goalkeeper that scored to keep Carlisle (open to correction here) in the football league, on a short term loan.
That again we are faced with a situation where loopholes, vagaries and leniency are the issues, one has to wish for a little consistency one way or the other from the governing bodies.
Philly
07/04/2007, 5:11 PM
Read in the Indo their cases were rejected because the English clubs they signed for didn't follow all FIFA/UEFA Rules or something strange like that. Will try find a link.
Why was their appeal different to the other 10?
I be pretty annoyed if it happened to two Drogs players but I would demand answers from the club before I went and blamed FIFA.
Good interview with RIco on redfm clearing this up a bit. Not anywhere online yet though.
Apparently the problem was the length of the contracts with their previous clubs. FIFA claim a contract(even loan) is a minimum of 6 months but the FA cleared Healy for a 2 month(or so?) loan deal and Farrelly was on a week to week not for the required time.
That seems to be the problem and the difference from the others. The FA claim the deals were legal under their rules yet FIFA disagree.
The problem is no fault of City or the 2 lads really and its a bit ridiculous IMO.
Celdrog
07/04/2007, 8:02 PM
The FA claim the deals were legal under their rules yet FIFA disagree.
The problem is no fault of City or the 2 lads really and its a bit ridiculous IMO.
So if FIFA say the deals were not legal then they effectively did not play for their previous clubs (in FIFA's eyes) and are free to play for Cork.
But then again Rico always tells the truth:rolleyes:
I don't know which is funnier, the lads not being allowed to play or the langers
logic (not directed at you Micls - you appear to be normal):D
Poor Student
07/04/2007, 8:07 PM
That's pretty unusual. Surely the clubs and/or the FA should be sanctioned or whatever. Although if you look at it from a legal perspective, Cork are only seeking an exemption in the first place, not a rule change, and this other development further complicates an already complicated matter.
So if FIFA say the deals were not legal then they effectively did not play for their previous clubs (in FIFA's eyes) and are free to play for Cork.
But then again Rico always tells the truth:rolleyes:I don't know which is funnier, the lads not being allowed to play or the langers
logic
Im not pretending to know the details....this has been reported as the reason by many people and Im pretty sure the clubs lawyers have a better understanding of it than you do.....no offense. Fact is that is the situation whether you think its logical or not :rolleyes:
GavinZac
08/04/2007, 4:18 PM
Im not pretending to know the details....this has been reported as the reason by many people and Im pretty sure the clubs lawyers have a better understanding of it than you do.....no offense. Fact is that is the situation whether you think its logical or not :rolleyes:
celdrog seems pretty well informed, sure he quoted the exact salaries of the players in question earlier in the thread. with such detail of the case we can't even be sure he is not sepp blatter himself!
Student Mullet
11/04/2007, 10:18 PM
Rico just on the radio there saying we're seeking a high court injunction to let them play while other avenues are explored.
RULE 4. MEMBERS’ OBLIGATIONS
The Members of the Football Association of Ireland have the following obligations
...
d) To adopt a statutory clause specifying that any dispute requiring arbitration involving itself or one of its
members and relating to the Statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the Football
Association of Ireland or the League(s) shall come solely under the jurisdiction of the appropriate Arbitration
Tribunal of FIFA, UEFA or the Football Association of Ireland and that any recourse to Civil Courts is
prohibited.
GavinZac
11/04/2007, 10:33 PM
RULE 4. MEMBERS’ OBLIGATIONS
The Members of the Football Association of Ireland have the following obligations
...
d) To adopt a statutory clause specifying that any dispute requiring arbitration involving itself or one of its
members and relating to the Statutes, regulations, directives and decisions of FIFA, UEFA, the Football
Association of Ireland or the League(s) shall come solely under the jurisdiction of the appropriate Arbitration
Tribunal of FIFA, UEFA or the Football Association of Ireland and that any recourse to Civil Courts is
prohibited.
Which, of course, is about as legally watertight as wooly socks.
Dodge
11/04/2007, 10:35 PM
Cork signed up to this. If they disregard it after only a few months, they rightfully will be fined.
One of the best rules the league has come up with IMO
GavinZac
11/04/2007, 10:37 PM
One of the best rules the league has come up with IMOreally? "thou shalt not question the FAI"? wait til it affects your lot.
Risteard
12/04/2007, 12:08 AM
Cork signed up to this. If they disregard it after only a few months, they rightfully will be fined.
One of the best rules the league has come up with IMO
I presume you're only saying "rightfully" because it's in the rules.
While dragging issues through the court relating to the administration of the eL (often rightfully) undermines the FAI, I don't see who would be hindered by this injunction.
The FAI supported Citys measures thus far and I'd imagine City would let them know before going down this road.
If the threat of points deduction remained at that stage, City would probably cut their losses and restrict themselves to the UEFA appeal.
Its not looking good though in all honesty.
On the other hand, it'll be exciting times if we're no more than 7 or 8 points off the pace come July.
dahamsta
22/04/2007, 5:19 PM
15 rubbish posts binned (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=58782).
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