Our best XI?

[eirebhoy]

After those 2 games, with every player fit and available what do you think is our best team? I'd go with a similar formation to tonight...

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
--------------Carsley--------------
---------A.Reid-----S.Reid---------
----Keane-----------------Duff----
---------------Doyle---------------

The back 5 picks itself I think.

atm there's no competition with Carsley for the holding role.

Steven Reid replaces Kilbane in tonights team. He's an excellent box to box player when given a run of games. Played very well against Sweden in Stans first match.

Andy Reid replaces Ireland. I have to say, Ireland impressed me tonight. One turn when McGeady passed it to him was excellent. He was full of confidence and did well. I just think Reid is the better player at the moment and has much more of an influence on games. When he plays the play goes through him and he has a fantastic football brain to link up play.

Keane would taking McGeady's place tonight. I think Keane would excel here. He basically plays there anyway for us but it'd be taking the pressure of his shoulders to score. He'd be playing with his head to goal rather than his back to goal and more likely to actually get a few shots off.

Duff obviously picks himself while Doyle was top class tonight as the lone striker.

I have to say, the look of that team really excites me. :) Maybe I'm overestimating the difference the 2 Reid's will make but I just think they're the type of players we badly miss.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Agree with that completely.

[gustavo]

Hard to argue with your team there eirebhoy

[Poor Student]

Given that we have severe problems filling the full back roles, I wonder if Darren O'Dea could be a future left back for Ireland. Isn't he left footed and played there for Celtic the odd time? I'm not comfortable with any starting lineup that results in O'Shea starting.

[eirebhoy]

Given that we have severe problems filling the full back roles, I wonder if Darren O'Dea could be a future left back for Ireland. Isn't he left footed and played there for Celtic the odd time? I'm not comfortable with any starting lineup that results in O'Shea starting.
People say Harte is slow but I don't think O'Dea is any quicker. I remember his first start for Celtic was at left back and he was exposed for pace. I've never noticed it at all when he plays centre half but then you don't need pace to play there. It might be worth a go but I don't see O'Dea as anything other than a centre back. I agree on O'Shea but as long as keeps things simple I'm happy. :)

[Midgit]

After those 2 games, with every player fit and available what do you think is our best team? I'd go with a similar formation to tonight...

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
--------------Carsley--------------
---------A.Reid-----S.Reid---------
----Keane-----------------Duff----
---------------Doyle---------------

The back 5 picks itself I think.

atm there's no competition with Carsley for the holding role.

Steven Reid replaces Kilbane in tonights team. He's an excellent box to box player when given a run of games. Played very well against Sweden in Stans first match.

Andy Reid replaces Ireland. I have to say, Ireland impressed me tonight. One turn when McGeady passed it to him was excellent. He was full of confidence and did well. I just think Reid is the better player at the moment and has much more of an influence on games. When he plays the play goes through him and he has a fantastic football brain to link up play.

Keane would taking McGeady's place tonight. I think Keane would excel here. He basically plays there anyway for us but it'd be taking the pressure of his shoulders to score. He'd be playing with his head to goal rather than his back to goal and more likely to actually get a few shots off.

Duff obviously picks himself while Doyle was top class tonight as the lone striker.

I have to say, the look of that team really excites me. :) Maybe I'm overestimating the difference the 2 Reid's will make but I just think they're the type of players we badly miss.

Celab Folan may have something to say about that:cool: .
We need a Roy Keane. We keep producing these pacey wingers when we need a good midfield player. S Reid may do that when he comes back but we cant rely on carsley for much longer because he is coming to the end.

[FarBeag]

Yeah. This is a team that could take us through.Hopefully the two Reid’s are fit for our next games and I would be very optimistic about our chances.

[bohsRap]

After those 2 games, with every player fit and available what do you think is our best team? I'd go with a similar formation to tonight...

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
--------------Carsley--------------
---------A.Reid-----S.Reid---------
----Keane-----------------Duff----
---------------Doyle---------------



You're spot on with alot of them choices eirebhoy but I have to disagree with you on O'Shea left back. He is absolutely terrible left back and is prone to costly mistakes from this position. I know everyone would like to see Finnan in his accustomed right back position but from a defensive point of view he's better at left back if you are to include O'Shea at right back.

[dr_peepee]

Hard to argue with that.. Though I was impressed with Ireland tonight. Much more so than Saturday.

[eirebhoy]

Me too. You all know of my undying love for Andy Reid though. :D Reid is the engine of that team. His positional sense, passing ability, decision making and basic intelligience is great.

If Ireland was to replace any player in that team it'd have to be Keane for me which shows how good a set of players we now have.

[CollegeTillIDie]

John O'Shea actually had a reasonably good game at right-back.:eek:

[Rossi]

still no room for Stephen Hunt though? Maybe swap Andy Reid for Duff and then Hunt on the left?

[DmanDmythDledge]

Why the fúck would you want to drop Duff?!:eek: He's a class above Hunt.

[dr_peepee]

Hunt is a good player..... But over rated!!!!!

[tetsujin1979]

Agreed. dr peepee, Hunt is a good impact player with about 20 minutes to go when the opposition is tiring, but you really can't see him starting on the left wing if duff or mcgeady is fit

[The Legend]

Personally, I wouldn't let Andy Reid anywhere the team unless he was after a run of fine performances with his club. Likewise Steven Reid tends to go missing in games, so i'm not too excited about him either.

but I would go with:

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
-Duff-----S.Reid--------Carsley------Hunt--------
----Keane---------------------
---------------Doyle---------------

Love to see Duff and Hunt playing together for 90 mins. (I personally think McGeady is supremely over-rated and shouldn't be anywhere near the team until he's playing day in day out consistently for Celtic (at least))

[McGinty]

Agreed. dr peepee, Hunt is a good impact player with about 20 minutes to go when the opposition is tiring, but you really can't see him starting on the left wing if duff or mcgeady is fit

jesus McGeady was terrible tonight, it'll be another while before he starts a game hopefully. looked completely out of depth

we need to start getting a regular starting XI together and bar a couple of games where we would have to tighten it up, eirebhoys side looks quality

[geysir]

I'd take Hunt over McGeady, based on performances to date, there's no question imo.
Maybe some people have great expectations of him, I don't but I don't think he is overated. He has done superbly well in the last 2 games and that cross for Long was shall we say Duff-like in execution. Reminds me of Joey Haverty, a free spirited character, a real crowd pleaser.

Thats the best team Eirebhoy, though I doubt if ever we will have 2 Reids playing in the same team.

[dr_peepee]

Don't think McGeady was terrible.. Sure there were occasions were he done the difficult bit and then fluffed the easy bit but one thing I like from him was that if he got stuck in a corner he was able to play his way out and play the ball back to start again rather than run aimlessly into a brick wall.

I expect Keane to start in his position for the next game but I'd have no gripes putting him back in again when required.

It seems for the first time there's some consistency. And more importantly if he sticks to that formation there's the flexibility to absorb the loss of players and almost seamlessly replace them, with the arguable exception of Carsley..

It's a formation that suits our playing resources!!

[eirebhoy]

Personally, I wouldn't let Andy Reid anywhere the team unless he was after a run of fine performances with his club.
What's that based on? Since his debut against Canada (?) Reid has been one of our most consistent performers. On the wing he isn't great I suppose. He's a playmaker and it's something we could really do with. Tonight for example when we were on the back foot, Carsley and Kilbane were doing their defensive duties. Any time one of our players got the ball there was nothing they could do but punt it up the field and watch it come back. With Reid in the centre of the pitch he'll always be available to receive a pass and put it good use.

[dr_peepee]

Disparaging Andy Reid is a bootable offence!!!

[geysir]

Here's what the real Kilbane is capable of, if only his club coaches didn't kill his creativity :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICut2PWmtb4

[danonion]

Here's what the real Kilbane is capable of, if only his club coaches didn't kill his creativity :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICut2PWmtb4

Jesus, that reminds me - I remember years and years ago, Sunderland couldn't buy a goal, they were scoreless in like a record number of matches, and out of nowhere Kilbane hit a ridiculous overhead kick goal nad they won the game

[elroy]

I think potentially Andy Reid could fill the - comfortable on the ball, can hold it up, good passer role that we need. I agree with Hunt think he is an impact player but he should start one of the friendlies coming up to see how he gets on. Very disappointed with McGeady, Ive never really seen anything from him to get too excited about.
Overall that looks a good team, i think JOSH did well for us in the two games at right back so he should stay there, left back is a bit of a problem though. Finnan does a capable job there but is very uncomfortable on his left.

[sparkey]

Of the players fit at present, in my opinion our best eleven would be:

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
---------Carsley---Ireland----------
McGeedey-----------------Duff-----
-----------Keane----Doyle----------

With The Reading boys of Hunt and Long being the ideal impact subs as they have shown already. Also until McGeedey starts to show his Celtic form in an Ireland Shirt I would start with Stephen Reid on the right when he would be back to full fitness.

[cavan_fan]

Of the players fit at present, in my opinion our best eleven would be:

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
---------Carsley---Ireland----------
McGeedey-----------------Duff-----
-----------Keane----Doyle----------

With The Reading boys of Hunt and Long being the ideal impact subs as they have shown already. Also until McGeedey starts to show his Celtic form in an Ireland Shirt I would start with Stephen Reid on the right when he would be back to full fitness.

The back 5 is probably set barring injury, I still dont get the Finnan O'Shea thing and I wish Stan would explain.

What's the story with Joey O'Brien. Is he ever going to play again. We dont need another RB but maybe we could use him elsewhere?

I think I'd start with the following must haves:

Duff to start LM, our best outfield player
Carsley to start in CM
Robbie to start tucked in behind Doyle


So I'd be looking for a right sided midfielder and another CM. The opposition will dictate this a bit but in CM you can pick from S Reid (my pref), Kilbane, Miller, Joey O'Brien, I'd go for S Reid if fit

On the right we have no great choices but I think maybe Joey O'Brien. If you slot Finnan as right back you'd have a solid pairing and Finnan would be able to go forward. For Liverpool he creates a lot of goals so I'd pick this. Other options are Hunt (though I like bringing him off the bench) and McGeady, if he ever proves eireboy half right.

The Keane role behind the front man could be covered by Ireland and A Reid

On Andy Reid, I dont see a point in having him as a first choice as he is injured so much. (Is this due to him adding too much muscle too quickly, a la Jonny Wilkinson?). If he gets 6 months under his belt maybe then.

[citizenerased]

...................Given

Finnan.....Dunne....McShane...O'Shea

...............S Reid.....Ireland

McGeady............Keane..............Duff

......................Doyle

[youngirish]

How about Kelly in place of JOS and Finnan at right back? Kelly seems to have been forgotten a bit. He was good against the Czechs and will more than likely be back in the Premiership in a few months.

Joey O'Brien has a serious knee injury btw. Won't be back until next season at the earliest. He's also a far better central midfielder than a right back.

[cavan_fan]

How about Kelly in place of JOS and Finnan at right back? Kelly seems to have been forgotten a bit. He was good against the Czechs and will more than likely be back in the Premiership in a few months.

Joey O'Brien has a serious knee injury btw. Won't be back until next season at the earliest. He's also a far better central midfielder than a right back.

At the beginning of the season we were all very excited about O'Brien and Garvan, pity injury/sickness has lost them both a season

[Nailer77]

On what we've seen over the last few months :

Given

Finnan McShane Dunne O'Shea

Carsley

Duff S.Reid A.Reid Hunt

Doyle


Thats only going on recent form now, and I think without Keane we look far more direct. Also McGeady hasn't had the impact that Hunt has despite what a lot people seem to think, he was one of the poorer players last night and Hunt made a difference form the second he walked onto the pitch and his crossing is spot on. I'll probably get hammered for leaving Robbie out but I think a side like ours has to make the best of what we have and thats our wide players and to get the best out of them you need to give them a certain amount of freedom to get forward which means more bodies in midfield. Also Ireland and Andy Reid would probably struggle in a 2 man midfield especially with the purely defensive Carsley so thats why I'd use the 3 with 2 capable ball players in the Reids with Ireland as a great option from the bench and then you can get away with Carsley doing what he's good at.

[RogerMilla]

i cannot agree re. andy reid , ireland has shown himself more potent and developing at a rate of knots. I say ireland is in our best XI and andy reid has a lot to do to play himself into it.

[Nailer77]

Thats probably fair enough but Irelands goals have hidden a few deficiencies. He gave the ball away a lot on Saturday and really faded last night, but fair enough potential wise he's got more to his game. One of them should definitely be starting though alongside S Reid and Carsley in midfield, especially against the tougher opposition.

[kingdom hoop]

seeing as though i posted this the other day i very much agree eirebhoy:)




i see this team as potentially a very good template for the future. replace kilbane with steven reid, then its between andy reid, ireland or possibly keane for the creative role with hunt and again possibly keane putting pressure on mcgeady.

i thought jos' performance was good enough to retain his place. he seemed uncharacteristically focussed last night. but there were a few times where a sliding tackle was cried out for but he was too timid. stephen kelly is also a bit of a wheeler though.

the most positive thing is that outside of carsley the whole team will be a good age for south africa, as per the plan!

[galwayhoop]

We need a Roy Keane. We keep producing these pacey wingers when we need a good midfield player. S Reid may do that when he comes back but we cant rely on carsley for much longer because he is coming to the end.

in fairness you can't just say we need a roy keane and go out and find one. it's like saying we need a george best or a pele. keane was a class act, love him or loathe him.

carsley is doing an ok job at the moment but i see joey o'brien filling that holding/defensive midfield position in the long run. fitness and form permitting of course.

[drummerboy]

Thankfully Owen Garvan is back playing regularly with Ipswich.

Celtic have employed a sprint coach to work with Darren O'Dea. Hopefully it works for him.

Joey O'Brien is a decent player and hopefully he will get fit again.

[Nailer77]

Thankfully Owen Garvan is back playing regularly with Ipswich.

Celtic have employed a sprint coach to work with Darren O'Dea. Hopefully it works for him.

Joey O'Brien is a decent player and hopefully he will get fit again.


Thats one of the real positives. Despite what a lot of people are saying WE HAVE got the players, and when you look at what we had out there last night and then supplement that with Robbie Keane, S.Reid, A. Reid, O'Dea, S Quinn, Garven, O'Brien, Stokes etc then things look brighter. In September injuries permitting we'll have a far healthier squad to pick from. Its getting the best out of these guys thats the task. And Stan really has to look at one or two of those Championship centre backs like Hawkins or McCarthy because we're a bit short there.

[galwayhoop]

...................Given

Finnan.....Dunne....McShane...O'Shea

...............S Reid.....Ireland

McGeady............Keane..............Duff

......................Doyle

i think this team would get absolutely torn apart by any decent opposition. there is no shape to it imo. what are you saying, ireland and reid as the central midfielders. in fairness the back 4 are totally exposed. check out eirebhoys first post for a team with balance.

if you deviate from a traditional ridgid 4-4-2 you need to make sure that there is a good balance of defensive and attack minded players as defenders can be more exposed and you also need to be able to support the front man. that looks like an old fashioned 4-2-4 with stephen ireland (an attacknig midfielder/forward player)as one of the 2 central midfielders!

[Nailer77]

i think this team would get absolutely torn apart by any decent opposition. there is no shape to it imo. what are you saying, ireland and reid as the central midfielders. in fairness the back 4 are totally exposed. check out eirebhoys first post for a team with balance.

if you deviate from a traditional ridgid 4-4-2 you need to make sure that there is a good balance of defensive and attack minded players as defenders can be more exposed and you also need to be able to support the front man. that looks like an old fashioned 4-2-4 with stephen ireland (an attacknig midfielder/forward player)as one of the 2 central midfielders!

Yeh, that setup would get royally rode. Grand for the likes of San Marino and even Wales but not for any side of a decent standard.

[bohsRap]

I still dont get the Finnan O'Shea thing and I wish Stan would explain.


I thought the reason was clear enough, O'Shea is a liability at left back, absolute muck. Defensively Finnan at left back is a much better option if you are to play O'Shea and last night he seemed to adjust more into this position, not cutting back but instead using his left boot.

[NeilMcD]

I said before these 2 games that we should go for a 4 5 1 as it covers up our lack of players in central midfield. I dont think we have a central midfield pairing at the moment that can play together. Carsley is half a top class midfielder and Stephen Ireland is another half of that top class midfielder. As a result we need somebody in there beside them. On Saturday it was Douglas and last night it was Kilbane. Both tireless workers who are limited in their ability to keep the ball.

In future we have a few options. We could replace these guys with Stephen Reid or Andy Reid or even drop Keane back to where Ireland plays and put Ireland beside Carsley.

What is clear is that defensively this formation suits and we have looked very solid over the last 2 games. I think we should play Robbie Keane in the position where Ireland plays as he played here against Sweden and was top class. It is where he plays for Spurs a lot of the time and it suits his tendancy to go look for the ball in different areas of the pitch.

Hunt and Duff should start on the wings and the back four cannot be changed as it has performed very well over the last 2 games.

All in all we look like we have a game plan now and I think the 4 5 1 suits us and it has a flexibilty to it that suits substitutes coming into the game in a number of positions. So far this formation has been used against Sweden Czech Rep, Wales and Slovakia. 3 wins and 1 draw. So I think we should pursue this for future games.

[galwayhoop]

true but i don't agree with ireland dropping back beside carsley. i think it has to be either keane or ireland in this formation - assuming doyle plays. as we saw on sat ireland can not do the wide mans job and we need 2 of duff, mcgeady or hunt to play as wingers. the wingers need to be pacy, skillful and willing to support the attacker. the 2 deep midfielders have to be good defensively and i thought carsley and to a lesser extent kilbane were effective yesterday. possibly with the return of both joey o'brien and steven reid one of these will be a better partner for carsley. leaving keane/ireland behind doyle

[Nailer77]

I said before these 2 games that we should go for a 4 5 1 as it covers up our lack of players in central midfield. I dont think we have a central midfield pairing at the moment that can play together. Carsley is half a top class midfielder and Stephen Ireland is another half of that top class midfielder. As a result we need somebody in there beside them. On Saturday it was Douglas and last night it was Kilbane. Both tireless workers who are limited in their ability to keep the ball.

In future we have a few options. We could replace these guys with Stephen Reid or Andy Reid or even drop Keane back to where Ireland plays and put Ireland beside Carsley.

What is clear is that defensively this formation suits and we have looked very solid over the last 2 games. I think we should play Robbie Keane in the position where Ireland plays as he played here against Sweden and was top class. It is where he plays for Spurs a lot of the time and it suits his tendancy to go look for the ball in different areas of the pitch.

Hunt and Duff should start on the wings and the back four cannot be changed as it has performed very well over the last 2 games.

All in all we look like we have a game plan now and I think the 4 5 1 suits us and it has a flexibilty to it that suits substitutes coming into the game in a number of positions. So far this formation has been used against Sweden Czech Rep, Wales and Slovakia. 3 wins and 1 draw. So I think we should pursue this for future games.

I agree, said much the same meself. I'd start with Carsley and Steven Reid with one other and the choices there are Stephen Ireland, Andy Reid and Robbie Keane. I'm not sure if Keane should just stroll back in as he is really more of a forward than a midfielder and Ireland is a more functional player but this set up gives us plenty of options and sets us up to get the best out of our wide players Duff, Hunt and McGeady with A.Reid and S.Quinn as other options there.

[hoops1]

Would be very careful about playing 4-5-1. In fairness the Slovakia coach was very slow last night with his tactics. Every man and his dog knew we would play 4-5-1 yet he only sorted his team out at half time. This led to them having the better of the second half but at that stage it was too late

[Over the post]

I'd agree with that. Depending on the opposition we could play Keane or an out-and-out midfielder in that position according to the kind of game we're expecting.

[OwlsFan]

I hate 4-5-1. We can't keep the ball up front and defend too deep. We should be defending from the front and we almost paid for it in the 2nd half with the midfield falling back on the defence.

With McGeady (Hunt) and Duff on the wings and two front men of the quality of Doyle and Keane up front, we should be attacking teams. Admittedly we have a poor central midfield but the return of at least one Reid should strenghten us in that department. A number of good crosses went in to the box but the absence of the 2nd striker at the end of them was notable.

Where that leaves Ireland I am not sure.

Was pleased with the back 4, even O'Shea, in both games.

[finnpark]

I said before these 2 games that we should go for a 4 5 1 as it covers up our lack of players in central midfield.

I agree totally with this. A 4-5-1 with 2 natural wingers and just 1 natural striker is the way to go. Look at Northern Ireland.

Keane must be dropped for good. His performances for Ireland and for his club leave a lot to be desired. Until his injury Doyle has been one of the best all round strikers in England's top division. Also, I think the team plays better without Keane in it. He wastes an awful lot of possession and he drops way too deep for a striker. Drop Kilbane for Hunt and swap the full backs and that is as good as it will get for Ireland although the incompetency of the manager still means Ireland will not qualify for anything.

The 4-5-1 system's advantages can be seen with the belfast team who are top oof their group ahead of Sweden, Denmark, Spain etc. If thats not proof nothing is. Its obvious what they do. Once they loose the ball they get everyone behind the ball. So when you don't have the ball the opposition have to produce something special to break you down. When you break you have the space to do so. All you need is a speedy striker who only needs his speed and a good finish. The problem is of course that if the striker stops scoring due to out of form the team stops scoring. Only 1 player in the team will score - the striker. :ball:

[NeilMcD]

We did defend from the front last night Doyle put them under pressure and Ireland never gave their sitting player a chance. Ireland tired and was carrying and knock and when we made the change to put Mc Geady there he did the same and Long also added energy to the team when Doyle ran out of steam. We have got our best results and performances with the 4 5 1 and have not been cut open whereas with 4 4 2 we dont have 2 central midfield players who are good enough to paly against decent teams.

[finnpark]

I hate 4-5-1. We can't keep the ball up front and defend too deep.

1. You should be in control of midfield protecting your back four and holding more possession.

2. You don't need to keep the ball up front. You counter attack at speed. You will produce less scoring chances but more quality scoring opportunities.

3. You will concede very very few goals using the system. It is usually quite boring to watch but its a good system for an inferior side.

[finnpark]

We have got our best results and performances with the 4 5 1 and have not been cut open whereas with 4 4 2 we dont have 2 central midfield players who are good enough to paly against decent teams.

Exactly. But it means dropping robbie keane as he does not suit this system. I agree with that anyway but half the country does not and Stan seems to think the sun shines out his backside. IMO his reputation is on past goals scored for Ireland. He has failed to produce at both club level and international level in recent years.

You just don't know what to get with Stan. The formation, positions, selections etc change not only every single match but also a number of times during the match. I don't see this team improving much until a settled structure and sytem are implemented.

[NeilMcD]

I think the system can suit Keane but he must play where Ireland played last night. Keane is not a striker. He is a link man. This system could get the best out of Keane but he must play in his right position. Just look at Shane Horgan in rugby, out in the wing, top class, put him in the centre, he is rubbish. The same with Keane, he should not play the lone striker role. Keane has class and it is up to him and the manager to get the best out of his talents.