Our best XI?

[galwayhoop]

I hate 4-5-1. We can't keep the ball up front and defend too deep. We should be defending from the front and we almost paid for it in the 2nd half with the midfield falling back on the defence.

With McGeady (Hunt) and Duff on the wings and two front men of the quality of Doyle and Keane up front, we should be attacking teams. Admittedly we have a poor central midfield but the return of at least one Reid should strenghten us in that department. A number of good crosses went in to the box but the absence of the 2nd striker at the end of them was notable.

in fairness to staunton i reckon that the reason we have played the 4-5-1 is due to the lack of a midfielder to play along side carsley.

people get bogged down in formations. with keane playing behing doyle in a 4-5-1 when we have possession he can slot along side him becoming a 4-4-2. it is about having the personal to adapt and make the correct moves and runs. formations are not and should not be as rigid as people think.

although i agree with you the midfield dropped way too deep in the second half and invited them onto us i think this is the individual players doing and not the formations fault. i remember when we played portugal at landsdowne and we were doing the same. roy keane won the ball and ran 60 yards with the ball, stopped and turned as if to invite the other players to come up and join him. that is individual players taking the responsibility of bringing out the defenders and midfielders and not just blindly clearing the ball up the pitch when no-one is up there.

last night there were times when we got the ball in wide positions, as you said, and had only one or even no players in the box. here the midfielders have to make the runs into the box to support the attacker. again it is about the players knowing what is required of them in the system and not just thinking i am a third midfielder and will stay in midfield.

[galwayhoop]

i would have no problem with the following team come september - fitness and form permitting - especially as the 2 games are away against decent teams:

......................given...................

finnan....mcshane....dunne...o'shea

............carsley........s.reid............

mcgeady...............................duff
......................keane..................
......................doyle..................

you can swap mcgeady with hunt and i'm still happy

[kingdom hoop]

I hate 4-5-1. We can't keep the ball up front and defend too deep. We should be defending from the front and we almost paid for it in the 2nd half with the midfield falling back on the defence.

With McGeady (Hunt) and Duff on the wings and two front men of the quality of Doyle and Keane up front, we should be attacking teams. Admittedly we have a poor central midfield but the return of at least one Reid should strenghten us in that department. A number of good crosses went in to the box but the absence of the 2nd striker at the end of them was notable.



cant understand that. when robbie plays in a 442 its effectively a 451. i'd be happy to see him occupy ireland's role and be the missing link in the delightful full back - defensive midfielder - attacking midfielder - striker/winger passing movement that will work for us

[Dr. Ogba]

i would have no problem with the following team come september - fitness and form permitting - especially as the 2 games are away against decent teams:

......................given...................

finnan....mcshane....dunne...o'shea

............carsley........s.reid............

mcgeady...............................duff
......................keane..................
......................doyle..................

you can swap mcgeady with hunt and i'm still happy

Yup, I'd agree with that, I think S. Reid (when available) would slot in nicely beside Carsley in that formation. Would deffo add a bit of steel to the midfield. And on the plus side, as shown last night, we actually have a few options from the bench...Hunt, Long, Stokes, Ireland, A. Reid could all slot in nicely into that system...

To those advocates of 442, I'll just point your attention nicely in the direction of Nicosia and Rimini and say no more....

[galwayhoop]

it is the old chicken and egg scenario. get players to play your perfered system (no problem at club level where you can buy players) or get a system that suits your players (more common at international level). we do not have 2 CM's who are capable enough for a 4-4-2 so i reckon the system to suit our players is what is needed

[Nailer77]

it is the old chicken and egg scenario. get players to play your perfered system (no problem at club level where you can buy players) or get a system that suits your players (more common at international level). we do not have 2 CM's who are capable enough for a 4-4-2 so i reckon the system to suit our players is what is needed

Spot on.

[finnpark]

i would have no problem with the following team come september - fitness and form permitting - especially as the 2 games are away against decent teams:

......................given...................

finnan....mcshane....dunne...o'shea

............carsley........s.reid............

mcgeady...............................duff
......................keane..................
......................doyle..................

you can swap mcgeady with hunt and i'm still happy

Thats a 4-4-2.

[Nailer77]

Thats a 4-4-2.

Not with the way Keane plays it isn't. You can either ask him to play off Doyle or drop deeper to pick things up off the midfield which is what he'll do if left to his own devices.

[galwayhoop]

Thats a 4-4-2.

read my post above about formations and the ridgidness (is that a word?) of them. it is actually neither 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 but a 4-4-1-1 if you are being pedantic. instead of both strikers playing beside each other you have one behind the other. providing a link between midfield and attack. imo it is a position more suitable to keanes & s.irelands game.

if you play this system you can easily convert to a 3-4-1-2 formation if chasing a game or against a weaker opposition. the midfielders have the same roles and therefore it doesn't disrupt the team too much.

[finnpark]

Not with the way Keane plays it isn't. You can either ask him to play off Doyle or drop deeper to pick things up off the midfield which is what he'll do if left to his own devices.


If hes left to his own devices he wil drop deep get a pass dribble a little before wasting it.

[finnpark]

read my post above about formations and the ridgidness (is that a word?) of them. it is actually neither 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 but a 4-4-1-1 if you are being pedantic. instead of both strikers playing beside each other you have one behind the other. providing a link between midfield and attack. imo it is a position more suitable to keanes & s.irelands game.

if you play this system you can easily convert to a 3-4-1-2 formation if chasing a game or against a weaker opposition. the midfielders have the same roles and therefore it doesn't disrupt the team too much.

Errr.....there are 11 players on a soccer team.

[Nailer77]

Errr.....there are 11 players on a soccer team.

Sorry whats your point? The systems he's named all have the 10 outfield players unless you're looking for him to include the keeper but I'd have thought that goes without saying.

[zenokelly]

After those 2 games, with every player fit and available what do you think is our best team? I'd go with a similar formation to tonight...

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
--------------Carsley--------------
---------A.Reid-----S.Reid---------
----Keane-----------------Duff----
---------------Doyle---------------

The back 5 picks itself I think.

atm there's no competition with Carsley for the holding role.

Steven Reid replaces Kilbane in tonights team. He's an excellent box to box player when given a run of games. Played very well against Sweden in Stans first match.

Andy Reid replaces Ireland. I have to say, Ireland impressed me tonight. One turn when McGeady passed it to him was excellent. He was full of confidence and did well. I just think Reid is the better player at the moment and has much more of an influence on games. When he plays the play goes through him and he has a fantastic football brain to link up play.

Keane would taking McGeady's place tonight. I think Keane would excel here. He basically plays there anyway for us but it'd be taking the pressure of his shoulders to score. He'd be playing with his head to goal rather than his back to goal and more likely to actually get a few shots off.

Duff obviously picks himself while Doyle was top class tonight as the lone striker.

I have to say, the look of that team really excites me. :) Maybe I'm overestimating the difference the 2 Reid's will make but I just think they're the type of players we badly miss.

Not really sure what Keane is doing on the right, Id put Hunt in there.

Everything else looks very good except O' Shea, we need to find a natural left back to get rid of O Shea for good.

[half_full]

Given

Finnan McShane O'Shea Harte

McGeady Ireland ????? Hunt

Doyle Ward

[galwayhoop]

Errr.....there are 11 players on a soccer team.

POTM :confused: :o ;)

[cavan_fan]

Given

Finnan McShane O'Shea Harte

McGeady Ireland ????? Hunt

Doyle Ward

What

The player who made it for us last night was Duff. If he was 20 we'd all be raving about him. Instead you pick McGeady and force Hunt onto his non-preferred side.

No Dunne? just so you can pick Harte. This is madness. I dont think Dunne was really MOTM last night (I'd have picked Duff) but he is solid and experienced.

You'll notice I havent mentioned Ward ahead of Robbie, words escape me

[half_full]

What

The player who made it for us last night was Duff. If he was 20 we'd all be raving about him. Instead you pick McGeady and force Hunt onto his non-preferred side.

No Dunne? just so you can pick Harte. This is madness. I dont think Dunne was really MOTM last night (I'd have picked Duff) but he is solid and experienced.

You'll notice I havent mentioned Ward ahead of Robbie, words escape me


1. Duff played well last night ill give him that, but hes not the player he was, people still think hes as good as he was a couple of years ago.

2. Dunne is mistake prone and akward, McShane and O'Shea are far better, and wheather you like him or not Ian Harte set pieces are reason to pick him alone.

3. Ward would offer far more than keane, hes big, powerful, got pace, good in the air and actually knows where the goal is
id have several players (O'Donovan, Doyle, Long, Duff, even Lee Trundle) instead of keane.

'robbie' is overated beyond belief, and as for being captain, someone like Shane Long would have more leadership

[KopKiller]

After those 2 games, with every player fit and available what do you think is our best team? I'd go with a similar formation to tonight...

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
--------------Carsley--------------
---------A.Reid-----S.Reid---------
----Keane-----------------Duff----
---------------Doyle---------------

.

If that was the team we played against Germany or the Czechs i wouldnt be too disappointed but I dont know about sticking keane as a wide striker/winger, considering he is our record goal scorer and has been a consistent scorer in the premiership, i think he needs to be central, just behind Doyle, its his favoured position. I also think Graham Kavanagh has more to offer as a holding player, hes much more influential than Carsley. But yeh, our back 5 now picks itself. Id put Stephen Reid straight in at midfield. If there was one thing i noticed about the last 2 games its how badly we faded in central midfield, S Reid would give us the legs.

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
---------Kavanagh-----S.Reid---------
A.Reid---------Keane-----------Duff
---------------Doyle---------------

[cavan_fan]

1. Duff played well last night ill give him that, but hes not the player he was, people still think hes as good as he was a couple of years ago.

2. Dunne is mistake prone and akward, McShane and O'Shea are far better, and wheather you like him or not Ian Harte set pieces are reason to pick him alone.

3. Ward would offer far more than keane, hes big, powerful, got pace, good in the air and actually knows where the goal is
id have several players (O'Donovan, Doyle, Long, Duff, even Lee Trundle) instead of keane.

'robbie' is overated beyond belief, and as for being captain, someone like Shane Long would have more leadership


Robbie does know where the goal is. I know that cos hes our recod scorer. You may well be the only person in the world (outside the trundle house) who believes Lee Trundle is better than Robbie Keane.

This is an example of bandwagon jumping. Let's get rid of players we're bored with and replace them with flavour of the months. McGeady has never played as well for Ireland as Duff did last night, even ignoring Duff's older performances.

Oh and finally, we've found someone who thinks John O'Shea is less error prone than Richard Dunne!

[shakermaker1982]

--------------Given----------------
Finnan---Dunne---McShane---OShea
---------Carsley-----S.Reid---------
Hunt---------Keane-----------Duff
---------------Doyle---------------


Keane would be classed as a striker but play in the hole as it were. Andy Reid would slot in somewhere were he to stay fit. Feel bad about omitting S Ireland after his recent displays....

[tetsujin1979]

1. Duff played well last night ill give him that, but hes not the player he was, people still think hes as good as he was a couple of years ago.
If you look through the recent history on this forum, you'll find very few people who think he's as good as he was a few years ago, but the Slovakia game was the best I've seen from him in a long time.


2. Dunne is mistake prone and akward, McShane and O'Shea are far better, and wheather you like him or not Ian Harte set pieces are reason to pick him alone.
I lost count of the amount of times Dunne cleared the ball last night, and has forged a strong partnership with McShane, in 4 games they've conceded 1 goal. We haven't had a record like that since Cunningham and O'Brien were starting. Duff, Ireland and even Dunne all take good free kicks - Duff is joint second in the list of assists in the qualifiers so far: http://www.uefa.com/competitions/euro/statistics/index.html


3. Ward would offer far more than keane, hes big, powerful, got pace, good in the air and actually knows where the goal is
id have several players (O'Donovan, Doyle, Long, Duff, even Lee Trundle) instead of keane.Ward has not proven himself at any level higher than Championship, and playing him alongside Doyle would effectively be playing the same style of target man, which does not work.
Of the players you've listed, only Doyle would be ahead of Keane, at even then only on recent form.
O'Donovan is one for the future, but with the current crop he could find it hard to get into the starting XI
Long is the current impact substitute, but I don't see him starting
Duff is not a striker. End of story
Lee Trundle didn't get into the squad when he was in his best form. By his own admission he's not playing as well, or scoring as many, and has probably missed his chance.


'robbie' is overated beyond belief, and as for being captain, someone like Shane Long would have more leadershipYes, a 20 year old substitute would have more leadership than a Premiership captain.

Personally I think you're on the wind up. Please do it somewhere else.

[keenanboy]

-----------------Given----------------
Finnan----McShane---Dunne----O'Shea
--------------Carsley-----------------
McGeady--------Ireland-----------Duff
--------------Keane------------------
-------------Doyle-------------------

I think Keane would prosper more in a deeper role facing the play as opposed to having his back to the goal. Doyle is a natural leader of the line and holds the ball up very well. I could see him linking up well with Keane, bring him into the play through bursts from midfield. Back four seem comfortable but may need a bit more cover from Carsley sitting in front of them. Duff and McGeady to provide pace and width on the break with Ireland and Keane coming through the middle. Given is, well just Given...best in the business.

[stojkovic]

Your team looks good but the problem is that it will not be tried and tested before September. Sicknote Reid and Fat Reid (im jokin) wont be fit for the trip to the US and I would like to think that our 'first XI' will start against Denmark in August.

The current team/squad seem to have jelled over the last week and will need to be fine tuned for September. Try Stephen Kelly at left full and O'Shea in for Kilbane. Robbie (without the armband) in for Ireland and if he responses well fine, if not, leave Ireland playing behind Doyle.

But that said, with two fit and injury free Reids, we do have a stronger squad, obviously.