Setanta Cup - The Verdict

[A face]

Right lads, whats your verdict on the Setanta Cup so far. Its in its third year, there have been ten teams in it so far, six for LOI and four from IL. By and large its been good viewing, Setantas subscriptions must be up now, as a direct result of running it.

What do you all think of it?

[Poor Student]

It's great. It's more domestic football on tv, it's on a Monday night when there's usually nothing else on and it gives the opportunity to see new teams like Linfield that you don't usually see. From scanning the results I think tonight IL football took a big blow tonight though. As usual Linfield are the only IL side to acquit themselves respectably.

[CharlesThompson]

Can't see the IL sides taking any more of an interest in it in the future if results like tonights continue for much longer. The competition is doomed.

[OneRedArmy]

Already covered in the other thread.

Tonight was the final nail in the coffin.

We may as well invite Linfield to enter the FAI Cup and get Setanta to sponsor it for all the good the tournament is doing.

[dcfcsteve]

The Irish League is a one-horse show.

Sadly - the only horse worth showing (Linfield) has no interest in getting involved in the much better horse show that occurs elsewhere on the island. They say its for reasons such as access to European equestrian tournaments, but we all know its just down to political horse play.

As a result - they will continue to be the best looking horse in one hell of an ugly field full of stunted foals and three legged donkeys.

Setanta has increasingly exposed that brutally for all to see. Linfield are wasted on the IL, but haven't got the ambition, the balls or the maturity to realise that and act accordingly. Whither the Irish League, as a result - and with it any point in having a Setanta tournament involving anyone bar Linfield.

[TheBoss]

If Linfield played any League of Ireland team mid season, they would struggle, the fitness levels at the moment is what is keeping on terms with Drogs and Derry.

[dcfcsteve]

If Linfield played any League of Ireland team mid season, they would struggle, the fitness levels at the moment is what is keeping on terms with Drogs and Derry.

Shaky decision-making by Fenlon, and our team passing like idiots and coasting on a 2:0 lead is what's keeping Linfield on terms with Derry....

[BleusAvantTout]

Shaky decision-making by Fenlon, and our team passing like idiots and coasting on a 2:0 lead is what's keeping Linfield Swifts on terms with Derry....

Our reserves came back well last night! :cool:

DCFC AHA AHA AHA...........................!!!!! Classic adaptation!! ;)

[blueman1886]

If Linfield played any League of Ireland team mid season, they would struggle, the fitness levels at the moment is what is keeping on terms with Drogs and Derry.Like when linfield played shelbourne midish season in tolka and stuffed um?

[Dodge]

Enjoyed my first season of it so far. Think it just fell poorly on three northern teams (Ports, Swifts and Glens) as it caught them in poor run of form/injuries.

Thankfully none of the drubbings has been caught on live tv (does Pats beating Cork 3-1 count?)

I certainly hope Linfield qualify for the semis. My hope is, ourselves and Linfield win groups, and then play in final in Windsor after beatiing Derry and Cork respectively

[chippie0001]

Already covered in the other thread.

Tonight was the final nail in the coffin.

We may as well invite Linfield to enter the FAI Cup and get Setanta to sponsor it for all the good the tournament is doing.

Of a matter of interest, in the first two years how many IL teams have made it out of the group stages? Is it just Linfield as again this year it may well be only Linfield again. Its a good competition, would love to be in it, but does seem that the IL teams cannot live with the LOI teams. That will destroy it long run as the interest will get worse as the results do.

[ifk101]

Like when linfield played shelbourne midish season in tolka and stuffed um?

Aye but Shels are a first division team.

Anyways I think what dcfcsteve meant was that LOI clubs are further down the professionalism road than IL clubs and logically we can presume that over the course of a season Linfield would struggle to finish above mid-table in the LOI.

[David]

The patronising nonsense from Derry City fans in particular is annoying. Why criticise Linfield for wanting to do what most other clubs do ie play in the league of their own country? Yes I would like an AIL if the conditions are right but Linfield wanting to stay in their own league surely has to be respected.

[razor]

(does Pats beating Cork 3-1 count?)not considering we nearly got a draw out of it, if it wasn't for that pesky dodgy penalty right at the end. :D

[OneRedArmy]

Of a matter of interest, in the first two years how many IL teams have made it out of the group stages? Is it just Linfield as again this year it may well be only Linfield again. Its a good competition, would love to be in it, but does seem that the IL teams cannot live with the LOI teams. That will destroy it long run as the interest will get worse as the results do.Pineapple Stu posted all the entrants records since the competition began in the other thread.

All bar Linfield are very poor. Whilst its clear the IL is an inferior league, it would appear based on the views of the Linfield fans, manager and players that they take the competition a lot more seriously than the other teams which simply exacerbates the differential.

[Dodge]

Bit misleading in that in the first year only group winners qualified so it was 50/50 in year one, and 75/25 in years two.

Looks the same this year. Most of us down here think our league is better and we've been proven right but its by no means a walkover. Think people are overreacting slightly to two heavy defeats last night

[Peadar]

We've beaten Ports 11-0 on aggregate. That's pretty comprehensive in any man's language. We went up there with a squad of 14 players & a string of injuries.
While Swifts have fared somewhat better, we should put them to the sword at Turners Cross.
Something drastic will need to happen if the IL teams are ever going to compete.

[MyTown]

Really enjoyed it this year because it conincided with our arrival back in the top division & it was good to see how our opponents were faring on live TV.

Difficult to see whats in it for the Irish League teams after last nights results, but the live TV games were all pretty good so far.

Well done Setanta for having a go at generating some revenue for the clubs involved and a bit of interest beyond the die-hards.

[Dodge]

We've beaten Ports 11-0 on aggregate. That's pretty comprehensive in any man's language
Of course it is, but look at Portadown's recent league record. Its pretty poor. Apart from Linfield the other three are doing poorly within their own league at the moment, and the results reflect this

[Jerry The Saint]

not considering we nearly got a draw out of it, if it wasn't for that pesky dodgy penalty right at the end. :D

Maths Lesson:

3 GOALS (Pats) MINUS 1 GOAL ("Dodgy" peno) = 2 GOALS WHICH IS > 1 GOAL (Cork)

:)


So far, I'm loving the Setanta Cup (or "Phase 1" as it's known in Pats circles ;) )

Maybe Portadown and Glentoran should do a Shels and refuse their invitation, seeing as they don't seem to care. Going a couple of places further down the league might not lower the standard too much if the teams were genuinely committed to the competition (and the associated prizemoney)

[galwayhoop]

bar linfield the IL teams seem to be very poor. i would like the setanta to be expanded to include both welsh and scotish teams. assuming that celtic and the darkside would have no interest how about the next placed scotish teams who don't qualify for europe. maybe reduce the amlount of teams to 2 from each country (if too many games became a problem). way forward from my viewpoint.

by introducing the other 2 celtic nations it would increase viewing figures in both scotland and wales.

[dcfcsteve]

The patronising nonsense from Derry City fans in particular is annoying. Why criticise Linfield for wanting to do what most other clubs do ie play in the league of their own country? Yes I would like an AIL if the conditions are right but Linfield wanting to stay in their own league surely has to be respected.

But this is football, not politics. "Most other clubs" play in the league of their own country for 2 reasons. Firstly, and most fundamentally, because their leagues 'work' ; and secondly, because UEFA is trying its damnedest to make it difficult for clubs to move.

On the first reason : where the leagues don't work, the team(s) that are way stronger than the level of competition they can achieve domestically often either do play in other countries (e.g. FC Vaduz ; Cardiff /Swansea /Wrexham /Newport etc) or actively want to play in other countries (e.g. Celtic/Rangers).

And on the second reason : I suspect strongly that UEFA wouldn't stand in the way of an all-island league.

So that's the 2 usual reason as to why teams don't play outside their own country addressed with regards Linfield. Even a number of your own colleagues in the Irish League (e.g. Glentoran) are on-record as saying they would be happy with an AIL. Even your fellow clubs in the north don't feel the need to cling onto the concept of sport being dominated by the politicial boundaries on the island.

So it seems the whole "we want to play in our own country" arguement may just have as much to do with politics for Linfield as it does football. Sure - yee's already play outside your own country on a frequent and regular basis with the Setanta and Europe anyway.....

[David]

Do you aspire to the English Premiership as has been asked elsewhere?

[Dodge]

bar linfield the IL teams seem to be very poor. i would like the setanta to be expanded to include both welsh and scotish teams. assuming that celtic and the darkside would have no interest how about the next placed scotish teams who don't qualify for europe. maybe reduce the amlount of teams to 2 from each country (if too many games became a problem). way forward from my viewpoint.

by introducing the other 2 celtic nations it would increase viewing figures in both scotland and wales.

Terrible idea regarding the scottish teams IMO. Very little in it for them, and davlues the whole thing if not including the top teams. Can't see how Inverness v Drogheda would appeal to many

[BohsPartisan]

Oh come on, surely everyone wants to see a repeat of the supercallygoballistic headline?

[Risteard]

We can only speculate but i couldn't imagine that even one welsh team would be up to standard.

[Ceirtlis]

I get the impression all the Northern teams bar Linfield look at this competition and think they have no chance of winning it so they put out squad players in it. They are much more interested in their own league as can be seen from their preparations for European competitons. The Glentoran manager was giving out that he could not use some of his reserves for the match against last night so that tells you all you need to know about his motivation for this comp. They fairly strictly play games at 3pm on Saturday so Monday games are a real hassle for them especially seen as their part-time.
As for expanding the competition. To Welsh teams? From the league of wales? No thanks. To Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham? They wouldnt be interested. They would treat it like they treat the FAW cup and put out their reserves.
If you were to ask SPL teams into it you are asking in more full-time teams and teams probably of a better standard than the eircom league teams, so where will this leave most of the Northern teams who are doing so badly against the eircom league. I honestly dont think they would be interested either. The whole logistics and cost of it are awkward as well especially for part-time teams who would have to travel to Scotland mid-week and probably have to pay for accomadation etc. Its bad enough as it is, Billy Woods was missing last night because of work commitments.
I think if the competition doesnt work in its current format then it wont work. If results keep going the way they are for the next year or two then it might not become viable anymore.

[galwayhoop]

Terrible idea regarding the scottish teams IMO. Very little in it for them, and davlues the whole thing if not including the top teams. Can't see how Inverness v Drogheda would appeal to many

who is talking about inverness. i was more talking about hearts, hibs or aberdeen. as a matter of interest how many went to the recent bohs and aberdeen friendly? or when aberdeen were beaten recently in europe was it marked in some quarters as a watershed of sorts! ffs when derry hammered gretna it was a cause for celebration for the league!

i think the inclusion of scotish/welsh teams would attract interest TBH and if successiful then the old firm may be interested too or if the prize money was high enough i'd hazard that the old firm would be interested anyway.

[Peadar]

We can only speculate but i couldn't imagine that even one welsh team would be up to standard.

Ask Longford about that. :D

[Pablo]

The Setanta Cup is virtually the same as the BBC sponsored FAW Premier Cup

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAW_Premier_Cup

In my eyes its on a par with the league cup and needsa major shake up, starting with switching games to the weekend

[galwayhoop]

We can only speculate but i couldn't imagine that even one welsh team would be up to standard.

how did longford (was it?) fare against welsh opposition (carmathen town??)recently enough! is the welsh league that much worse than the IL??

[Risteard]

Crazy idea here.
How about some invites, similar to the Copa America?
Suggestions
Cardiff City
Swansea City
Crap championship/decent league1 teams.

[Dodge]

Nothing in it for them. No chance of them accepting

[Risteard]

I dunno.
Even to them, the prize money would be a little tempting and who cares if ten other teams turned it down first?
Scheduling would be a problem i suppose.

[galwayhoop]

Nothing in it for them. No chance of them accepting

probably add to the farce of local irish people supporting the english lower league teams over their local club also :rolleyes:

[Dodge]

who is talking about inverness. i was more talking about hearts, hibs or aberdeen.

:rolleyes:


i would like the setanta to be expanded to include both welsh and scotish teams. assuming that celtic and the darkside would have no interest how about the next placed scotish teams who don't qualify for europe.

You're ruling out the top 4/5 in Scotland. Its a stoopid idea, as is inviting Welsh team. The only reason this cup exists is because Setanta Sports Ireland wanted to create an All ireland competition to fill their monday night schedules. If its not all Ireland, it won't exist.

[galwayhoop]

:rolleyes:
You're ruling out the top 4/5 in Scotland. Its a stoopid idea, as is inviting Welsh team. The only reason this cup exists is because Setanta Sports Ireland wanted to create an All ireland competition to fill their monday night schedules. If its not all Ireland, it won't exist.

sorry badly worded by me in original post. rule out the scotish clubs who are still participating in europe at this stage of the season. don't think for one minute that setanta are doing this for the benefit of irish soccer. if they were to increase their viewing figures on say a tuesday or wednesday night by including scotish and welsh viewers as well as irish viewers do you not think they would go for it?

also if say €2 million prize money was on offer the teams mentioned above would jump at it. combined with income from supporters it would be a nice little earner for clubs.

i remember when the inter-toto was first started people said clubs would not have an interest but now they do.

i am merely offering suggestions for the enhancement of the tournement. in its current guise it is ufortunately not as successful as i originaly hoped. and added to the increase in setanta's popularity i reckon they might look at doing something to the format themselves. do you not think that the incclusion of other teams from neighbouring countries would raise the profile of the tournament and also in turn our league? a bit like the celtic league in rugby it could only be positive.

[razor]

Maths Lesson:

3 GOALS (Pats) MINUS 1 GOAL ("Dodgy" peno) = 2 GOALS WHICH IS > 1 GOAL (Cork)Maths Teacher = St Pats Fan, things are really starting to happen for ye. Delighted.:D
Sure ye'll hardly mind coming down for the final so. ;)

[Dodge]

also if say €2 million prize money was on offer the teams mentioned above would jump at it. combined with income from supporters it would be a nice little earner for clubs
The prize money this year is €150,000 for winners, €80,000 for runners up and all other partici[ants receive €20,000 so who's going to stump up the extra €1.7 million euro? Certainly not Setanta who, as good as they have been, are obviously looking for maximum reward from small stakes

Add in the cost of travelling to ireland every second week (on a Monday/Tuesday) and the fact they'd get rubbihs crowds at home and this would not be the money earner you think it would

[galwayhoop]

if the tournament had increased potential viewing figures of wales and scotland then proportionally the increase in prize money would not be a great as you think. would the attendances be as bad as you think? i'm not sure. also i'm sure other sponsors would come on board if it were a multi-country event

[Lim till i die]

if the tournament had increased potential viewing figures of wales and scotland then proportionally the increase in prize money would not be a great as you think. would the attendances be as bad as you think? i'm not sure. also i'm sure other sponsors would come on board if it were a multi-country event

Dig, Dig, Dig, Dig, Dig, Dig, Dig, Dig :D

[galwayhoop]

also the fact is that the teams outside the top two in scotland have very little chance of regular silverware at the moment so the incentive of winning a trophy would also add to their interest IMO

[DvB]

also the fact is that the teams outside the top two in scotland have very little chance of regular silverware at the moment so the incentive of winning a trophy would also add to their interest IMO

True, cant remember Hibs or Hearts winning anything in recent memory!

Koh

[Dodge]

if the tournament had increased potential viewing figures of wales and scotland then proportionally the increase in prize money would not be a great as you think. would the attendances be as bad as you think? i'm not sure. also i'm sure other sponsors would come on board if it were a multi-country event
Kilmarnock average about 4,000 for non Old Firm games. Goodness knows what they average on Monday nights against clubs they've never heard of.

There will be no other sponsors as the competition is run by the sponsor, if they pull out, there is no broadcastor, and without a broadcastor, there's no chance of a sponsor. Don't forget that from next season Setanta have English Premier League rights (and Conference!) to add to their Italian, French, German etc

Some people just need to get a dose of reality round here

[Dodge]

True, cant remember Hibs or Hearts winning anything in recent memory!

Koh

some Hibs fan you are...

Hibs won the league cup last week, and Heaarts won the Scottish cup last year

[WeAreRovers]

some Hibs fan you are...

Hibs won the league cup last week, and Heaarts won the Scottish cup last year

I'm sure that was far easier than DvB imagined. ;)

KOH

[Dodge]

Grrrrr

[DvB]

I'm sure that was far easier than DvB imagined. ;)

KOH

:D ;)

[BohsPartisan]

Totally against inviting any clubs from other countries. It totally defeats the purpose. For me the idea of Setanta is that its an All-Ireland competition in the absence of an All-Ireland League.

[galwayhoop]

seriously lads the negativity on here is mind blowing. people don't even listen to suggestions without having the cons stacked up and ready to belt out!!

fair enough so, as per the title of the thread, setanta cup - the verdict?

obviously in yer eyes everything is rosey and perfect so leave well alone!

well, from my point of view, and i am a neutral (i.e. my team does not compete and i don't think we will for a good while anyway) i think for it's long-term survival it needs overhauling and expansion. i know many, many people who go to eL games and watch copious amounts on of sport on TV also but never, ever watch the setanta cup. viewing figures will inevitably drive the aganda and i suspect that they are not as high as setanta would have envisaged. and as pointed out above with their expanding repiteóir (sp?) the importance of the setanta cup will only diminish in setanta's eyes.

but fair enough lads, keep beating the no change drum, keep harping on about non-eL attending football fans being the scourge of the sport, keep bashing the GAA & IRFU (2 organisations who embrace change and development), keep the lot and forget about any change or improvements and, like the FAI, keep running the game into the ground!