Polish guys view of Irish team

[Noelys Guitar]

Taken from eleven a side
Limerickman

I can’t believe the things that Limerickman is writing. I am Polish living in Ireland and apart from goalkeepers we don’t have in our squad players with quality such as you. We have a lot people playing in Polish league for our National team but we expect still to beat teams like Cyprus and San Marino and beat them by many goals.

When this doesn’t happen we want the resignation of the manager. I think this is normal and not mob as Limerickman is writing.

Also, I’d like to make clear that players like Duff and Robbie Keane and also Finnan are famous players everywhere. My Nephew in North Poland is 14 and he has a Damian Duff Chelsea shirt from a few years ago.

I think you don’t know what you’re writing Limerickman. You must raise your expectations. Ireland should be in the top 10 teams in Europe and not bottom 10. A good manager will make good players even better and a bad manager (Staunton) will make good players poor. This seems to be what is happening.

Posted by: Radekingreen

[carloz]

what he says is 100% true. We should be in the top 10 in Europe squad wise. Its annoying when you see teams such as Denmark and Sweden continously qualify for torunaments with weaker squads than we have.

[IsMiseSean]

I think our squad is very overrated!

[republicofwhite]

No way...Against San Marino we Fielded nine Premiership players and a player from la liga...Thats pretty much as high quality as you can get9Apart from the liability in goal who al,most cost us dear) The Pole is absolutely spot on and you need an outside view like that just bring home the reality. Inept Manager, Capable Squad. Unbalanced Equation. End of... I fRoy Keane was in charge of the current squad, we see how could they could capably be...

[qwertyui]

Oh god i was wondering how long it would take for someone to mention his name!! Roy Keane! Good manager so far.. no doubt he would lead us to a world cup but the only problem is he'd leave b4 the thing even started!

[Billsthoughts]

too early to tell wheter keane will make a good manager or not. but what is eveident at the moment is that he is inspiring a bit of passion among the Sunderland support who were totally in the dumps when he took over. can you say the same about staunton?

[billybunter]

Not sure on that one Bill...I think Staunton is inspiring a bit of passion amongst the supporters.......

[eirebhoy]

A good manager will make good players even better and a bad manager (Staunton) will make good players poor.
That's a great point. A lot of people don't realise how good our players are just because they're not performing for us. If they were at their best under such a poor manager there'd be very little use for a manager.

[paul_oshea]

i dont understand your last point then.

[eirebhoy]

i dont understand your last point then.
Me? What's not to understand about it? :) We can currently field a much better team than the team we had at the last world cup imho. We have one of the best right backs in the world but you wouldn't think the way he has been playing under Stan.

[geysir]

We have one of the best right backs in the world but you wouldn't think the way he has been playing under Stan.
At least He is at RB now. Where was He playing under Kerr? all over the place, so it's an improvement now from the dark days of Finnan making way for Carr.
Remember the first priorities, pick the best 11 and put them in their best positions.

[BobbySands]

The Polish guy is absolutely right. We have some fine players. The problem is the management.

Staunton Out
Delaney Out
Robson retire and save your pride

[gilberto_eire]

No way...Against San Marino we Fielded nine Premiership players and a player from la liga...Thats pretty much as high quality as you can get9Apart from the liability in goal who al,most cost us dear) The Pole is absolutely spot on and you need an outside view like that just bring home the reality. Inept Manager, Capable Squad. Unbalanced Equation. End of... I fRoy Keane was in charge of the current squad, we see how could they could capably be...

another roy keane'r!!. he walkd into the stadium with the money sitting there for him he hasnt proved anything yet ill be impressed when he keeps them up thats a challenge!!.

[mypost]

I can’t believe the things that Limerickman is writing. I am Polish living in Ireland and apart from goalkeepers we don’t have in our squad players with quality such as you. We have a lot people playing in Polish league for our National team but we expect still to beat teams like Cyprus and San Marino and beat them by many goals.

When this doesn’t happen we want the resignation of the manager. I think this is normal and not mob as Limerickman is writing.

You must raise your expectations. Ireland should be in the top 10 teams in Europe and not bottom 10. A good manager will make good players even better and a bad manager (Staunton) will make good players poor. This seems to be what is happening.

He's only telling us what we already know.

[OwlsFan]

Hmmm, we should be in the top 10 in Europe:

1) Germany, 2) Holland, 3) England, 4) Spain, 5) Portugal, 6) Czech Republic
7) Russia, 8) France, 9) Sweden,

That's just a rough guess in no particular order of perhaps the Top 9. So we should be ahead of Denmark, Norway, Switzerland (whom we haven't beaten at 4 attempts), Scotland, Ukraine, Belgium, Romania, Norway, Poland, Austria, Bulgaria, Slovakia.

On what basis should we be ahead of them? Do we have a bigger footballing population ? No! Do we have a stronger national league ? No! Apart from 1 defender who plays regularly in one of the Top 4 teams in the Premiership and one other who is crap, we have players from mediocre Premeriship teams and some Championship players.

Take the blinkers off. We're average at best. The fact that a kid in Poland wears a Damien Duff jersey means we're world beaters :rolleyes: He should be looking to his own country and wondering why they are crap.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Hmmm, we should be in the top 10 in Europe:

1) Germany, 2) Holland, 3) England, 4) Spain, 5) Portugal, 6) Czech Republic
7) Russia, 8) France, 9) Sweden,

That's just a rough guess in no particular order of perhaps the Top 9. So we should be ahead of Denmark, Norway, Switzerland (whom we haven't beaten at 4 attempts), Scotland, Ukraine, Belgium, Romania, Norway, Poland, Austria, Bulgaria, Slovakia.

On what basis should we be ahead of them? Do we have a bigger footballing population ? No! Do we have a stronger national league ? No! Apart from 1 defender who plays regularly in one of the Top 4 teams in the Premiership and one other who is crap, we have players from mediocre Premeriship teams and some Championship players.

Take the blinkers off. We're average at best. The fact that a kid in Poland wears a Damien Duff jersey means we're world beaters :rolleyes: He should be looking to his own country and wondering why they are crap.

Well said. The Premiershi* itself is overrated. The players are overpaid and underperforming, basically they treat playing for their country as a junket.

Polish league is poorly supported by the local population and those that do attend tend to have a large minority psycho-hooligan element. SO they cannot attract too many new fans in the groups the EL is trying to attract e.g. families.

[eirebhoy]

Hmmm, we should be in the top 10 in Europe:

1) Germany, 2) Holland, 3) England, 4) Spain, 5) Portugal, 6) Czech Republic
7) Russia, 8) France, 9) Sweden,

That's just a rough guess in no particular order of perhaps the Top 9. So we should be ahead of Denmark, Norway, Switzerland (whom we haven't beaten at 4 attempts), Scotland, Ukraine, Belgium, Romania, Norway, Poland, Austria, Bulgaria, Slovakia.

On what basis should we be ahead of them? Do we have a bigger footballing population ? No! Do we have a stronger national league ? No! Apart from 1 defender who plays regularly in one of the Top 4 teams in the Premiership and one other who is crap, we have players from mediocre Premeriship teams and some Championship players.

Take the blinkers off. We're average at best. The fact that a kid in Poland wears a Damien Duff jersey means we're world beaters :rolleyes: He should be looking to his own country and wondering why they are crap.
There we are, a case of they're performing so badly that they must be crap.

We have Given, Dunne, Finnan, O'Dea now, O'Shea for the least important position on the pitch, Duff, Reid, McGeady, Keane, Doyle. We can field as good a first 11 as any of those teams. That's what the Polish guy is saying.

If the players that went to the WC2002 could perform well then this lot should be qualifying. btw, Russia?

[geysir]

We should be beating Wales and Slovakia at home. This is a realistic expectation given the relative strength of the current squad.

[fergalr]

The Premiershi* itself is overrated.
Eh!? Can't argue with three teams in the CL QF's and two more still in the UEFA cup.

Our problem is that we have too many players who play far worse for their national team than they do for their clubs (a reversal of a long standing tradition).

The manager should either find a way to motivate these underperformers or else drop 'em.

[pineapple stu]

Or else stand down...

[fergalr]

Or else stand down...

Naturally.

[Lim till i die]

Hmmm, we should be in the top 10 in Europe:

1) Germany, 2) Holland, 3) England, 4) Spain, 5) Portugal, 6) Czech Republic
7) Russia, 8) France, 9) Sweden,


Italy :confused:

[OwlsFan]

Thanks, I even forgot to put in Italy :o and yet we should be in the Top 10.

It's a joke the expectations some people have for a bunch of mostly average Irish players. Top 10 in Europe :rolleyes:

[cavan_fan]

Outside of Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Holland, England, Portugal and maybe Czech Republic, can you name a squad with as many players playing at such a high level?

The argumnet here is a sensible one. Stan should not be able to ride the 'our players arent good enough' line. He has a squad whcih is as good as any of the 2nd division European nations and that should mean qualification.

[Lim till i die]

Outside of Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Holland, England, Portugal and maybe Czech Republic, can you name a squad with as many players playing at such a high level?

The argumnet here is a sensible one. Stan should not be able to ride the 'our players arent good enough' line. He has a squad whcih is as good as any of the 2nd division European nations and that should mean qualification.

Turkey, Russia, Serbia, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a good few more if I thought about it

It's not a sensible argument at all. It is rather an argument put forward by the deluded souls gorging at the Sky Sports trough who think the Premiership is the be all and end all :ball:

[cavan_fan]

Turkey, Russia, Serbia, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Norway off the top of my head. I'm sure there's a good few more if I thought about it

It's not a sensible argument at all. It is rather an argument put forward by the deluded souls gorging at the Sky Sports trough who think the Premiership is the be all and end all :ball:

I know this really bugs people but there is no doubt the Premiership is at the moment the strongest league in the world. UEFA cup and CL success shows this. It's strange that when Irish clubs get trhough a few qualifying rounds we say this shows how good the EL is but when English clubs have almost half the quarter finalists (and I suspect the winners) we ignore this.

[Lim till i die]

I know this really bugs people but there is no doubt the Premiership is at the moment the strongest league in the world. UEFA cup and CL success shows this. It's strange that when Irish clubs get trhough a few qualifying rounds we say this shows how good the EL is but when English clubs have almost half the quarter finalists (and I suspect the winners) we ignore this.

Doesn't bug me in the slightest

It's all about standards of football

Outside of the top four it's much, no emphasis on technique.

Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Uniteds successes are completely irrelevant to the Republic of Ireland with the possible exception of Steve Finnan

[cavan_fan]

Doesn't bug me in the slightest

It's all about standards of football

Outside of the top four it's much, no emphasis on technique.

Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Uniteds successes are completely irrelevant to the Republic of Ireland with the possible exception of Steve Finnan

OK, let's take one of your example teams at random. I've chosen Serbia. They have 2/3 players from top European teams, (Vidic at Man U, Stankovic at Inter and Dragutinovic at Sevilla). After that its teams like Red Star, CSKA, Basel, Lens, Trabsonzpor. I do not believe these are better teams than Spurs, Newcastle, Reading etc. UEFA cup results would suggest that the English clubs are as good.

To repeat at the moment Ireland are nowhere near Serbia's level. They are on a level with N Ireland etc. But their squad should be competing with the likes of Serbia, this is the managers fault and that's why he should be sacked.

[Lim till i die]

After that its teams like Red Star, CSKA, Basel, Lens, Trabsonzpor. I do not believe these are better teams than Spurs, Newcastle, Reading etc. UEFA cup results would suggest that the English clubs are as good.


Congratulations you've just proved my point about standards of football and the different technique levels :ball:

[cavan_fan]

Congratulations you've just proved my point about standards of football and the different technique levels :ball:


Sorry, I know I'm being dense but I dont understand this post

[Lim till i die]

Sorry, I know I'm being dense but I dont understand this post

Your average continental player is far superior technically to one playing in England

For example a centre half with a lower league Italian side would breeze into most English Premiership teams

[cavan_fan]

Your average continental player is far superior technically to one playing in England

For example a centre half with a lower league Italian side would breeze into most English Premiership teams

Firstly, you seem to be suggesting a player can be be 'better' but less succesful, that you can do well in the Champions League without being good at football. I'd be happy to have a succesful team that is not technically good!

Secondly, if your point about lower league Italian defenders was true then Premiership teams would be buying them.

[Emmet]

It's all about standards of football

Outside of the top four it's much, no emphasis on technique.


At the last European Championships Finals there were more players from the Premiership than from any other European league. For me that is a fairly good measure of how strong any league is overall (ie not just how good its best teams are!) I don't know the stats for the last World Cup but I'd say it would have been up there in that regard too. I'd say in the last two to three years it has become the strongest league in Europe certainly.

[osarusan]

I know this really bugs people but there is no doubt the Premiership is at the moment the strongest league in the world. UEFA cup and CL success shows this.

better than the Spanish league, which currently hold the competition?

[pineapple stu]

The notion that the Premiership isn't one of the strongest leagues in the world is nonsense, presumably brought on by a sort of anti-Sky hype attitude. Of course Sky hype it to bits, of course it isn't the be all and end all; however, it is still a good league. It's ranked second in Europe on a consistent basis on the back of results (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2007.html). The notion that it's only the top three or four who do well is knocked by Boro reaching the UEFA Cup Final last year, and three English sides winning their UEFA Cup groups (two are in a strong position to reach the quarter-finals). To have a first team almost entirely from Premiership sides (for example off the top of my head, a side of Given, Finnan, Harte, Dunne, McShane, O'Shea, Duff, A Reid, S Reid, Keane, Doyle) is a good team and should be ranked much higher in Europe than we are.

Technique doesn't equate to ability; we've shown that ourselves on numerous occasions through the years. So LTID's point about Lens or Basel players being better than Spurs or Newcastle players by definition is invalid. Cavan_fan's point about comparing the national squads is far more useful. And OwlsFan's point that other teams are better than us because they're better than us just smacks of minnowism. Has Roy Keane taught you nothing?

[Closed Account 2]

OK, let's take one of your example teams at random. I've chosen Serbia. They have 2/3 players from top European teams, (Vidic at Man U, Stankovic at Inter and Dragutinovic at Sevilla). After that its teams like Red Star, CSKA, Basel, Lens, Trabsonzpor. I do not believe these are better teams than Spurs, Newcastle, Reading etc. UEFA cup results would suggest that the English clubs are as good.

To repeat at the moment Ireland are nowhere near Serbia's level. They are on a level with N Ireland etc. But their squad should be competing with the likes of Serbia, this is the managers fault and that's why he should be sacked.

The Serbs do have some good players who would walk into our squad (assuming we were not managed by a complete clown). Danko Lazovic playing at Vitesse is one of the best strikers in the Dutch League (4th top scorer overall). He would get in our squad and probably even starting XI ahead of Doyle or Keane.

Pantelic (of Hertha Berlin) is also a great striker, his assists have been very good this season, and he's 4th= in Bundesliga top scorers chart, again he would easily make the squad.

Zigic is at Santander and has got 7 goals, his sheer size would see him in our squad. Mirko Vucnic (of Roma) would also be a strong striker - he is still deciding if he wants to play for Serbia or Montenegro.

Kezman at Fenerbache now, would also be in contention, and there are the likes of Milosevic and Darko Kovacevic who might also be in the reckoning for our squad (tho age becomes a factor).

Bosko Jankovic at Mallorca would get in our squad too, he's had a great season and scored 8 goals - very good return for a midfielder.

One position where we are def. stronger is in goal, Given is better than Drago Jevric (the world cup goalie, who is infact from Montenegro), Vad Stoijkovic (youth goalie at Nantes), and Avramov (youth at Fiorentina) are both good back ups.

The Serbs also took a risk and got a foreign coach Djavier Clemente of Spain. This was not a popular decision in Belgrade, but results have been very good and Serbia is in a very strong position to get to the Euros (in a harder group than ours with competition from Poland, Belgium and Portugal).

Manager is the key I think

[eirebhoy]

Outside of Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Holland, England, Portugal and maybe Czech Republic
The Czechs wouldn't even be too far ahead of us in terms of players available. They've called up Sionko, Jarosik and Bednar from the SPL in the last few months and with the exception of 2 or 3 players are nothing special.

[Lim till i die]

Technique doesn't equate to ability; we've shown that ourselves on numerous occasions through the years. So LTID's point about Lens or Basel players being better than Spurs or Newcastle players by definition is invalid. Cavan_fan's point about comparing the national squads is far more useful. And OwlsFan's point that other teams are better than us because they're better than us just smacks of minnowism.

Continental clubs place more emphasis on technique and tactical astuteness. Hence when players from continental clubs are brought together for international competition they generally perform better.

For further evidence when's the last time England performed at an international tournament


Has Roy Keane taught you nothing

Rather confirmed all my thoughts on Cork people :p

[finnpark]

You do realise that is written by an Irish person pretending to be Polish right?

[Lim till i die]

You do realise that is written by an Irish person pretending to be Polish right?

In the context of the thread does that really matter a $hit?? :rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

For further evidence when's the last time England performed at an international tournament.
Who cares? Care to address the facts about English teams in the UEFA (which takes out the big four)?

[Billsthoughts]

Thanks, I even forgot to put in Italy :o and yet we should be in the Top 10.

It's a joke the expectations some people have for a bunch of mostly average Irish players. Top 10 in Europe :rolleyes:

then why do you follow the team?
you seem to be happy we are crap????
I would love to search thru your posts and see what your expectations were when kerr was in charge. but I wont cause I am too lazy...
interesting that the other expert on coaching Karlos is conspicuous by his absence....I think he said Staunton would make a way better coach than keane....oh how I laughed....

[carloz]

Do you mean me by any chance.......cuase i never said that. I have a bit of cop on

[geysir]

then why do you follow the team?
you seem to be happy we are crap????
I would love to search thru your posts and see what your expectations were when kerr was in charge. but I wont cause I am too lazy...
interesting that the other expert on coaching Karlos is conspicuous by his absence....I think he said Staunton would make a way better coach than keane....oh how I laughed....
Indeed, never a truer line did you write Bill, you are too lazy.
Karlos, afair, did not say that about Staunton.

Carloz wrote

Do you mean me by any chance.......cuase i never said that. I have a bit of cop onNo chance of mistaken identity, Karlos could spell :)

[Lim till i die]

Who cares? Care to address the facts about English teams in the UEFA (which takes out the big four)?

Well for a start it's patently obvious the Italian teams don't give a toss

[jebus]

My take is that Ireland at present don't belong in the Top 10 European teams, they have a okay first team, **** poor squad though, and don't get me started on their manager. Bit like Scotland last year to be honest.

As for The Premiership being the best league in the world, well for my money La Liga mops the floor with it each and every week. After that I'd take Serie A, the Premiership, Bundesliga and the Eredivise

[pineapple stu]

Well for a start it's patently obvious the Italian teams don't give a toss
You want to go a bit further than that!

[jebus]

You want to go a bit further than that!

Honestly I don't think any of the major European leagues give a toss about the UEFA Cup, as my younger Blackburn supporting brother said, the only downside of Blackburn progressing in the FA Cup is that they might end up having to play in the UEFA Cup again

[pineapple stu]

We're comparing the English league here to the likes of the Swiss, Dutch, Turkish, Russian, Serbian leagues, not the bigger leagues (i.e. England, Spain, Germany, Italy). The point being made is that players with "second rate" clubs like Red Star, CSKA, Basel, Lens and Trabsonzpor are better than players at the English clubs. So it's irrelevant whether the top four leagues care that much about the UEFA, apart from that it might even reflect better on the English league if their clubs don't care and are doing well.

[jebus]

We're comparing the English league here to the likes of the Swiss, Dutch, Turkish, Russian, Serbian leagues, not the bigger leagues (i.e. England, Spain, Germany, Italy). The point being made is that players with "second rate" clubs like Red Star, CSKA, Basel, Lens and Trabsonzpor are better than players at the English clubs. So it's irrelevant whether the top four leagues care that much about the UEFA, apart from that it might even reflect better on the English league if their clubs don't care and are doing well.

Right, well then I'll back out because I'm not comparing the Premiership to any of those leagues